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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 10:07:46 GMT -5
It would be great if it was the comp pick and not their proper selection at the top of the round. Still another stupid Getty trade..The final chapter in that book has not been written as of yet. Nothing has changed from the moment of the trade. No one knows outside the FO how this is going to play out. One think I have observed. ( in a good way) The information coming out of the FO is nondescript. It seems the leaks have been pugged up. The other part is just because people outside of people who actually do this for a living have an opinion on Williams value it means 0. Writers and XGMs who are exactly that for a reason. Don't matter either. The only people that matter is the Giants brass and they have proven most of the BS said wrong so far.I trust hey will do the right thing here wether it is take the consequences or pay the man.That is good stuff that the leaks have slowed but the last 2 years their first round picks were out the night before sp they still have work to do.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 10:09:01 GMT -5
In the end they If they are gonna pay someone it might as well be the devil they know. They have seen Williams up close at every position on the DL in both fronts and how he conducts himself in the locker room. When he came on board others starting to shine because he and Lawrence were eating people up. if you look at this through a clear lens not agenda based it was odd but there is some pretty forward thinking with this trade. And a little protection with a comp pick possibility. it has a gamble factor to it as well. As many personnel choices do. yup they all have a gamble to them really.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 10:15:05 GMT -5
Here is the original NY post reporting on the deal nypost.com/2019/10/28/jetsThe Giants acquired defensive lineman Leonard Williams — a former Jets first-round pick — and sent a 2020 third-round draft pick and 2021 conditional fifth-round pick to the Jets as compensation. The fifth-round pick in 2021 becomes a fourth-rounder if Williams signs with the Giants prior to free agencyIf the Giants re-sign him after the 18th of March. It is a 5th round pick not a 4th
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 10:17:39 GMT -5
That is not the way the original deal was written. A 3rd round pick “The” 3rd round pick. This was discussed at length after the trade. If it was? Why report it as "a" third round pick knowing that Ginats have a potential 3rd round comp pick being awarded to them.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 10:19:24 GMT -5
Here is the original NY post reporting on the deal nypost.com/2019/10/28/jetsThe Giants acquired defensive lineman Leonard Williams — a former Jets first-round pick — and sent a 2020 third-round draft pick and 2021 conditional fifth-round pick to the Jets as compensation. The fifth-round pick in 2021 becomes a fourth-rounder if Williams signs with the Giants prior to free agencyIf the Giant re- sign him after the 18th of March. It is a 5th round pick not a 4tjh They might strike a deal and wait till after free agency to sign it helps both Williams his team gets a better player and the club they retain the higher pick.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 10:27:43 GMT -5
The final chapter in that book has not been written as of yet. Nothing has changed from the moment of the trade. No one knows outside the FO how this is going to play out. One think I have observed. ( in a good way) The information coming out of the FO is nondescript. It seems the leaks have been pugged up. The other part is just because people outside of people who actually do this for a living have an opinion on Williams value it means 0. Writers and XGMs who are exactly that for a reason. Don't matter either. The only people that matter is the Giants brass and they have proven most of the BS said wrong so far.I trust hey will do the right thing here wether it is take the consequences or pay the man.That is good stuff that the leaks have slowed but the last 2 years their first round picks were out the night before sp they still have work to do. I am not saying the Giants will not give up pick 68 . They very may well or sign him before FA . They may. The way the original deal was reported. The Giants can take advantage of the wording just as Dallas did in the Walker trade deal. The Walker deal stared in an ambiguous way against Minnesota. If the traded for player were not re-signed at the end of their contracts . Those traded for players Dallas received would convert into Draft picks. Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones let them all walk and the rest is history.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 10, 2020 10:37:04 GMT -5
Bottom line... If Williams turns out to be a really good player then its all good.
I can see it now.....
Williams turns out to be a really good player and Gettlman gets lucky Williams turns out to be a average player and Gettleman is a dope.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 10:55:20 GMT -5
We had one third round draft pick. What pick exactly do you think that we traded to the Jets? A third round pick is a pick in the 3rd round. The way it written was ambiguous. It's not ambiguous when you have only one 3rd round pick.
You seriously going to die on this hill?
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 10:59:58 GMT -5
Bottom line... If Williams turns out to be a really good player then its all good. I can see it now..... Williams turns out to be a really good player and Gettlman gets lucky Williams turns out to be a average player and Gettleman is a dope. Turns out? It's not like this guy is an unknown quantity. He's been in the league for 5 years for God's sake,
We know what he is...a decent D lineman. Maybe a bit better than average. Quite honestly, he';s just a guy out there. Replacements for him can be had for a couple $MM per year.
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Post by moecoastie on Feb 10, 2020 11:07:01 GMT -5
A third round pick is a pick in the 3rd round. The way it written was ambiguous. It's not ambiguous when you have only one 3rd round pick.
You seriously going to die on this hill?
you are allowed to trade prospective compensatory picks before they are awarded
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 11:17:31 GMT -5
The other part is just because people outside of people who actually do this for a living have an opinion on Williams value it means 0. Writers and XGMs who are exactly that for a reason. Don't matter either. The only people that matter is the Giants brass and they have proven most of the BS said wrong so far.I trust hey will do the right thing here wether it is take the consequences or pay the man.That is good stuff that the leaks have slowed but the last 2 years their first round picks were out the night before sp they still have work to do. I am not saying the Giants will not give up pick 68 . They very may well or sign him before FA . They may. The way the original deal was reported. The Giants can take advantage of the wording just as Dallas did in the Walker trade deal. The Walker deal stared in an ambiguous way against Minnesota. If the traded for player were not re-signed at the end of their contracts . Those traded for players Dallas received would convert into Draft picks. Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones let them all walk and the rest is history. Never new that part of the Walker deal.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 11:20:04 GMT -5
A third round pick is a pick in the 3rd round. The way it written was ambiguous. It's not ambiguous when you have only one 3rd round pick.
You seriously going to die on this hill?
By the way it was worded . You absolutely can.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 10, 2020 11:21:09 GMT -5
Bottom line... If Williams turns out to be a really good player then its all good. I can see it now..... Williams turns out to be a really good player and Gettlman gets lucky Williams turns out to be a average player and Gettleman is a dope. Thats how it goes when some where agenda colored glasses we could have done a lot worse in the GM chair. John Mara learned now what loyalty gets you multiple losing seasons. Don't think that mistake will be happening anytime soon again. the last 2 coaches didn't even reach lame duck status lol.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 11:23:10 GMT -5
Bottom line... If Williams turns out to be a really good player then its all good. I can see it now..... Williams turns out to be a really good player and Gettlman gets lucky Williams turns out to be a average player and Gettleman is a dope. Turns out? It's not like this guy is an unknown quantity. He's been in the league for 5 years for God's sake,
We know what he is...a decent D lineman. Maybe a bit better than average. Quite honestly, he';s just a guy out there. Replacements for him can be had for a couple $MM per year.
A couple of million a year? No ...
He's maybe not a top 10 interior DL (although that is debatable), but a contract for $10-$12M per year would certainly be at market value for him if you look at the list of interior DL salaries ....
overthecap.com/position/interior-defensive-line/
My guess is that Gettleman overpays a bit ($12-13M per year) to save his ass but doesn't go all in for $15M.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 11:25:05 GMT -5
Turns out? It's not like this guy is an unknown quantity. He's been in the league for 5 years for God's sake,
We know what he is...a decent D lineman. Maybe a bit better than average. Quite honestly, he';s just a guy out there. Replacements for him can be had for a couple $MM per year.
A couple of million a year? No ...
He's maybe not a top 10 interior DL (although that is debatable), but a contract for $10-$12M per year would certainly be at market value for him if you look at the list of interior DL salaries ....
overthecap.com/position/interior-defensive-line/
I agree you are not signing a quality interior D-linemen for peanuts.
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Post by McCherry on Feb 10, 2020 11:37:45 GMT -5
“The” 3rd round pick. This was discussed at length after the trade. If it was? Why report it as "a" third round pick knowing that Ginats have a potential 3rd round comp pick being awarded to them. Because logic should tell you that you can't trade a pick that you haven't acquired yet.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 11:39:49 GMT -5
Turns out? It's not like this guy is an unknown quantity. He's been in the league for 5 years for God's sake,
We know what he is...a decent D lineman. Maybe a bit better than average. Quite honestly, he';s just a guy out there. Replacements for him can be had for a couple $MM per year.
A couple of million a year? No ...
He's maybe not a top 10 interior DL (although that is debatable), but a contract for $10-$12M per year would certainly be at market value for him if you look at the list of interior DL salaries ....
overthecap.com/position/interior-defensive-line/
My guess is that Gettleman overpays a bit ($12-13M per year) to save his ass but doesn't go all in for $15M.
Were you blown away by his play this year? D linemen who can't get to the QB don't have the value you are suggesting.
Wanna know an interior D lineman who could get to the QB? Justin Tuck. This guy isn't in his league. He's a nice little player who has underachieved tremendously since he was such a high pick 5 years ago.
I just think this was a foolish trade. We are a developing team and we traded away assets for that future for a rental player on a team already out of the playoff race. It just makes no sense.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 11:42:01 GMT -5
A couple of million a year? No ...
He's maybe not a top 10 interior DL (although that is debatable), but a contract for $10-$12M per year would certainly be at market value for him if you look at the list of interior DL salaries ....
overthecap.com/position/interior-defensive-line/
I agree you are not signing a quality interior D-linemen for peanuts. And in our system he wasn't an interior lineman. he was a DE in a 3-4 scheme. What would he be in our new Scheme? Are we going back to a 4-3? It doens't seem so. As a DT in a 4-3...he seems better suited than what he was with us.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 10, 2020 11:55:19 GMT -5
A couple of million a year? No ...
He's maybe not a top 10 interior DL (although that is debatable), but a contract for $10-$12M per year would certainly be at market value for him if you look at the list of interior DL salaries ....
overthecap.com/position/interior-defensive-line/
My guess is that Gettleman overpays a bit ($12-13M per year) to save his ass but doesn't go all in for $15M.
Were you blown away by his play this year? D linemen who can't get to the QB don't have the value you are suggesting.
Wanna know an interior D lineman who could get to the QB? Justin Tuck. This guy isn't in his league. He's a nice little player who has underachieved tremendously since he was such a high pick 5 years ago.
I just think this was a foolish trade. We are a developing team and we traded away assets for that future for a rental player on a team already out of the playoff race. It just makes no sense.
The trade doesn't make any sense to me either, but I do think that Williams is a very good, but not great player.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 11:55:55 GMT -5
I agree you are not signing a quality interior D-linemen for peanuts. And in our system he wasn't an interior lineman. he was a DE in a 3-4 scheme. What would he be in our new Scheme? Are we going back to a 4-3? It doens't seem so. As a DT in a 4-3...he seems better suited than what he was with us. He call himself an interior D-linemen “I definitely think I’m a top-tier interior defensive lineman, in that top percentage of the d-linemen. I wouldn’t say Aaron Donald [level]. But I would definitely put myself up there with a lot of those other top guys.” giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/09/leonard-williams-demanding-top-dollar-from-new-york-giants/
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Post by moecoastie on Feb 10, 2020 11:59:02 GMT -5
If it was? Why report it as "a" third round pick knowing that Ginats have a potential 3rd round comp pick being awarded to them. Because logic should tell you that you can't trade a pick that you haven't acquired yet. use the rule book and not logic. You absolutely can
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 11:59:13 GMT -5
And in our system he wasn't an interior lineman. he was a DE in a 3-4 scheme. What would he be in our new Scheme? Are we going back to a 4-3? It doens't seem so. As a DT in a 4-3...he seems better suited than what he was with us. He call himself an interior D-linemen “I definitely think I’m a top-tier interior defensive lineman, in that top percentage of the d-linemen. I wouldn’t say Aaron Donald [level]. But I would definitely put myself up there with a lot of those other top guys.” giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/09/leonard-williams-demanding-top-dollar-from-new-york-giants/Which makes perfect sense. He's a DT in a 4-3. Not a DE in a 3-4 as we were using him.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 11:59:20 GMT -5
If it was? Why report it as "a" third round pick knowing that Ginats have a potential 3rd round comp pick being awarded to them. Because logic should tell you that you can't trade a pick that you haven't acquired yet. But you can. Just as you can spend money you do not yet have. It is call anticipating the asset.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 12:02:11 GMT -5
Because logic should tell you that you can't trade a pick that you haven't acquired yet. But you can. Just as you can spend money you do not yet have. It is call anticipating the asset. Are you really suggesting that the Jets might get our compensatory pick (if we get one) instead of the 4th pick in the third round?
First of all that's nuts if true. Secondly, compensatory picks can't be traded.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 12:02:35 GMT -5
Which makes perfect sense. He's a DT in a 4-3. Not a DE in a 3-4 as we were using him. He is an interior D-linemen. It is what he is being paid to do. What you are using is semantics . He is still a DT.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 12:03:28 GMT -5
Which makes perfect sense. He's a DT in a 4-3. Not a DE in a 3-4 as we were using him. He is an interior D-linemen. It is what he is being paid to do. What you are using is semantics . He is still a DT. But he was a DE with us this year.
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Post by moecoastie on Feb 10, 2020 12:06:16 GMT -5
He is an interior D-linemen. It is what he is being paid to do. What you are using is semantics . He is still a DT. But he was a DE with us this year. no he wasnt...he played 3-tech primarily.
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 12:09:26 GMT -5
But you can. Just as you can spend money you do not yet have. It is call anticipating the asset. Are you really suggesting that the Jets might get our compensatory pick (if we get one) instead of the 4th pick in the third round?
First of all that's nuts if true. Secondly, compensatory picks can't be traded.
I have already looked into that so here is the rule www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14274468/nfl-owners-ok-compensatory-pick-trading-2017The owners, who are meeting in Irving, Texas, voted to allow compensatory draft picks to be traded beginning in 2017 and also voted to shorten the "legal tampering window" before free agency from three days to two.
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Post by Morehead State on Feb 10, 2020 12:10:18 GMT -5
But he was a DE with us this year. no he wasnt...he played 3-tech primarily. Then where were Tomlinson and Lawrence?
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Post by TEM on Feb 10, 2020 12:10:36 GMT -5
He is an interior D-linemen. It is what he is being paid to do. What you are using is semantics . He is still a DT. But he was a DE with us this year. OK I give up how does he differ from a 4-3 DT? To me they are one and the same.
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