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Post by infinite420 on Mar 20, 2020 15:05:13 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me.
Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you.
This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general.
Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 20, 2020 15:17:54 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. I understand different opinions on different players but you make him sound like he is terrible and his tackles are just an empty stat. How does a team of coaches and a GM not see him as this terrible player?
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 20, 2020 15:59:14 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. Is it possible that your scouting report on him isn't right?
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 20, 2020 16:07:09 GMT -5
Gettleman has been batting under the Mendoza line when it comes to free agency. I think this year, with Judge he is finding quality football players. Martinez is one of them.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 20, 2020 16:22:06 GMT -5
Gettleman has been batting under the Mendoza line when it comes to free agency. I think this year, with Judge he is finding quality football players. Martinez is one of them. His strength has certainly been in the draft but I also think it's an issue of our holes not lining up well with the free agents available. For instance in 2018 we needed to replace Flowers and Hart as our OTs (along with both OGs and C lmao man that was a bad year).
Walter Football top OTs available
Solder Cam Fleming (oddly enough) Chris Hubbard Ty Neske Austin Howard Garry Gilliam Andre Smith Chris Clark Greg Robinson Austin Pasztor
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 20, 2020 16:29:27 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. Is it possible that your scouting report on him isn't right? You tell me what you think........
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 20, 2020 16:32:13 GMT -5
Gettleman has been batting under the Mendoza line when it comes to free agency. I think this year, with Judge he is finding quality football players. Martinez is one of them. I credit all the good signings to Judge and all the bad ones to Gettleman. Until Judge becomes a bum. Which he inevitably will.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 20, 2020 16:39:16 GMT -5
Is it possible that your scouting report on him isn't right? You tell me what you think........
I think I could not possibly have less regard for the opinions of some guy that does self directed film breakdowns for free. That's not intending to insult Mr Franchise, I'm sure he's a lovely guy. But I don't see any compelling evidence that his opinions are worth any more than any of the other worthless opinions of the media. And sadly, those guys do get paid! Yet they're nearly always wrong.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 20, 2020 16:41:15 GMT -5
Is it possible that your scouting report on him isn't right? You tell me what you think........
so the only film you watched was one that was biased to show overrated he was. or did you watch all the film available, games, etc?
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 20, 2020 16:43:07 GMT -5
Gettleman has been batting under the Mendoza line when it comes to free agency. I think this year, with Judge he is finding quality football players. Martinez is one of them. I credit all the good signings to Judge and all the bad ones to Gettleman. Until Judge becomes a bum. Which he inevitably will. That goes without saying.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 20, 2020 16:51:38 GMT -5
Gettleman has been batting under the Mendoza line when it comes to free agency. I think this year, with Judge he is finding quality football players. Martinez is one of them. His strength has certainly been in the draft but I also think it's an issue of our holes not lining up well with the free agents available. For instance in 2018 we needed to replace Flowers and Hart as our OTs (along with both OGs and C lmao man that was a bad year).
Walter Football top OTs available
Solder Cam Fleming (oddly enough) Chris Hubbard Ty Neske Austin Howard Garry Gilliam Andre Smith Chris Clark Greg Robinson Austin Pasztor
This. And he got players his coaches wanted.
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 20, 2020 19:19:56 GMT -5
You tell me what you think........
so the only film you watched was one that was biased to show overrated he was. or did you watch all the film available, games, etc? Best friend is a Pack fan, we watch the Sunday ticket every week so im familiar with that team. First thing he said to me once we signed him is "You guys signed little Blakey?" We both laughed bc we know he stinks. Total stat padder. Hey, at least he cost the same as Ogletree, while BARELY being better. BUT Fackrell on the other hand is a STUD. We lucked out on that one, he was stuck behind the Smiths. He's our new Golden, book it.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 20, 2020 21:24:21 GMT -5
so the only film you watched was one that was biased to show overrated he was. or did you watch all the film available, games, etc? Best friend is a Pack fan, we watch the Sunday ticket every week so im familiar with that team. First thing he said to me once we signed him is "You guys signed little Blakey?" We both laughed bc we know he stinks. Total stat padder. Hey, at least he cost the same as Ogletree, while BARELY being better. BUT Fackrell on the other hand is a STUD. We lucked out on that one, he was stuck behind the Smiths. He's our new Golden, book it. I re watched his entire analysis. I note that from :40 to 1:00 he essentially qualifies his opinions with two facts that happen to be true for the Giants. That said, much of his analysis starts with the idea that he isn't a good cover LB and then he goes about cherrypicking plays to support that. Now, in fairness Martinez gave him plenty to work with because he isn't a very good cover LB. Hopefully that's not what the Giant got him to do. If they did then I agree, it was a mistake. But we'll see. I sincerely hope that they're smarter than the average fan and that they already know how they intend to use him in the context of their defense. If not and they put him in position to constantly cover, it could absolutely end up looking like a bad signing.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 20, 2020 21:36:32 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. The guy has averaged 150 tackles per season the past 3 years. Not good against the run? Yeah, no.
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 20, 2020 23:07:00 GMT -5
Best friend is a Pack fan, we watch the Sunday ticket every week so im familiar with that team. First thing he said to me once we signed him is "You guys signed little Blakey?" We both laughed bc we know he stinks. Total stat padder. Hey, at least he cost the same as Ogletree, while BARELY being better. BUT Fackrell on the other hand is a STUD. We lucked out on that one, he was stuck behind the Smiths. He's our new Golden, book it. I re watched his entire analysis. I note that from :40 to 1:00 he essentially qualifies his opinions with two facts that happen to be true for the Giants. That said, much of his analysis starts with the idea that he isn't a good cover LB and then he goes about cherrypicking plays to support that. Now, in fairness Martinez gave him plenty to work with because he isn't a very good cover LB. Hopefully that's not what the Giant got him to do. If they did then I agree, it was a mistake. But we'll see. I sincerely hope that they're smarter than the average fan and that they already know how they intend to use him in the context of their defense. If not and they put him in position to constantly cover, it could absolutely end up looking like a bad signing. Its known hes a pretty slow LBer in coverage, but the video I posted showed alot of what youll see on Sundays versus the run. Blake Martinez 130 tackles is COMPLETELY different than a Sean Lee 130 tackles, as an example. Sean Lee is a legit inside LBer, attacks plays, great instinct. Martinez is what I call a "chaser." His tackles are never a play he kept in front of him, always from behind, and when youre unathletic, you NEED that extra instinct to compensate, example Sean Lee. The video is just a concise version of what Ive seen from this guy. 100% 3-4 ILB, I dont see how he fits in any other scheme.
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 20, 2020 23:14:51 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. The guy has averaged 150 tackles per season the past 3 years. Not good against the run? Yeah, no. Hes not good against the run, no. 40 players had 100+ tackles in the NFL in 2019. The stat itself has no context. Id guarantee half of those "tackles" are a play where hes chasing someone that beat him to his spot and he tackling them from behind. BTW, Budda Baker, a safety had 140 tackles too......ALL PRO!!!
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Post by McCherry on Mar 21, 2020 0:42:02 GMT -5
The guy has averaged 150 tackles per season the past 3 years. Not good against the run? Yeah, no. Hes not good against the run, no. 40 players had 100+ tackles in the NFL in 2019. The stat itself has no context. Id guarantee half of those "tackles" are a play where hes chasing someone that beat him to his spot and he tackling them from behind. BTW, Budda Baker, a safety had 140 tackles too......ALL PRO!!! That's nice... Blake Martinez was second overall in tackles the last 2 years and third overall in 2017. the Giants haven't had a Linebacker crack 100 tackles in 6 years, stop with the nonsense already.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 21, 2020 6:24:34 GMT -5
so the only film you watched was one that was biased to show overrated he was. or did you watch all the film available, games, etc? Best friend is a Pack fan, we watch the Sunday ticket every week so im familiar with that team. First thing he said to me once we signed him is "You guys signed little Blakey?" We both laughed bc we know he stinks. Total stat padder. Hey, at least he cost the same as Ogletree, while BARELY being better. BUT Fackrell on the other hand is a STUD. We lucked out on that one, he was stuck behind the Smiths. He's our new Golden, book it. they didnt "luck out" with Fackrel they made a smart choice. Martinez was not signed as a cover LBr. The NYGs were not fooled. His tackle are not empty stats either.
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 21, 2020 10:01:58 GMT -5
Its known hes a pretty slow LBer in coverage, What exactly are you qualifications as a scout ,why should we listen to you? Im not a scout, I did play LBer in HS, so I know a little bit about the position
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 21, 2020 12:04:54 GMT -5
Im on the fence with the Blake Martinez signing. Dave Gettleman philosophy is run the ball, stop the run and pressure the passer. I wholeheartedly understand and can see there is actually a plan in place to get this team where he wants it to be, unlike years prior. Another point, Joe Judge in his opening presser preached the whole "Don't tell me they can't do certain things, tell me what they can do and then we'll figure out..." and that applies to Blake Martinez.
HOWEVER. Somebody needs to be able to cover the runningbacks and TEs. Currently we dont have a versatile cover linebacker. Somebody is going to get put on an island and be incredibly mismatched. Last year Markus Golden was tasked with covering a RB out wide a few plays and i wept. Same thing with Pressuring the passer, somebody has to get the stat. You can preach pressure all you want but you have to be able to get home to stop some of these QBs, not every QB is like Eli and going to either throw inaccurate or go down at the sight of pressure.
It's a wait and see process but DG has to nail this draft. This team will not be competitive unless they find a tackle, a pass rusher and a coverage LB.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 23, 2020 10:34:57 GMT -5
There is a good article in the Post today about the Giants scheme vs the Green Bay scheme and how that should help Martinez immensely against the run by having more run stoppers in front of him and allowing him to set up closer to the line of scrimmage.
90% of everything we hear is spin so who knows? They did say that it looks like a NE Pats move that takes advantages of what people do well (tackle in Martinez' case) and minimize the opponents ability to exploit their weaknesses.
We'll see....
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 23, 2020 11:00:44 GMT -5
There is a good article in the Post today about the Giants scheme vs the Green Bay scheme and how that should help Martinez immensely against the run by having more run stoppers in front of him and allowing him to set up closer to the line of scrimmage. 90% of everything we hear is spin so who knows? They did say that it looks like a NE Pats move that takes advantages of what people do well (tackle in Martinez' case) and minimize the opponents ability to exploit their weaknesses. We'll see.... ILBs need to do more than tackle, which Martinez barely does. Ogletree used to be a 120+ tackle guy too before we acquired him, and we all saw how that panned out here. He was terrible, just like fans of the Rams knew already. This is Ogletree pt2, if he was any good the Pack would have resigned him. Connelly is already a better LB after one year in the league.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 11:06:19 GMT -5
There is a good article in the Post today about the Giants scheme vs the Green Bay scheme and how that should help Martinez immensely against the run by having more run stoppers in front of him and allowing him to set up closer to the line of scrimmage. 90% of everything we hear is spin so who knows? They did say that it looks like a NE Pats move that takes advantages of what people do well (tackle in Martinez' case) and minimize the opponents ability to exploit their weaknesses. We'll see.... ILBs need to do more than tackle. Ogletree used to be a 120+ tackle guy too before we acquired him, and we all saw how that panned out here. He was terrible, just like fans of the Rams knew already. This is Ogletree pt2, if he was any good the Pack would have resigned him. This isn't the same as Ogletree! Ogletree was ranked very bad and brought the history of missing too many tackles before he got here. Acting like Martinez is the same just isn't right.. I do wonder why the Pack didn't sign him but that can be said about every FA..
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 23, 2020 11:34:16 GMT -5
There is a good article in the Post today about the Giants scheme vs the Green Bay scheme and how that should help Martinez immensely against the run by having more run stoppers in front of him and allowing him to set up closer to the line of scrimmage. 90% of everything we hear is spin so who knows? They did say that it looks like a NE Pats move that takes advantages of what people do well (tackle in Martinez' case) and minimize the opponents ability to exploit their weaknesses. We'll see.... l'm just curious what they said our scheme is going to be, since it's a new staff, and hasn't yet been implemented.
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 23, 2020 12:15:38 GMT -5
ILBs need to do more than tackle. Ogletree used to be a 120+ tackle guy too before we acquired him, and we all saw how that panned out here. He was terrible, just like fans of the Rams knew already. This is Ogletree pt2, if he was any good the Pack would have resigned him. This isn't the same as Ogletree! Ogletree was ranked very bad and brought the history of missing too many tackles before he got here. Acting like Martinez is the same just isn't right.. I do wonder why the Pack didn't sign him but that can be said about every FA.. Ogletree missed tackles will look the same as Martinez getting washed out in plays. Neither player is an attacker, both would rather the play come to them. Frankly, GB could have any scrub play in between the Smiths, and be effective. Why would they pay that player $10m? Not to mention hes now paid as a top-10 LBer, which is he is NOT. Im hopeful, but very doubtful he will be the impact player many here believe he is. To me, hes a slighly better version of BJ Goodson. Decent run stopper, below average in coverage, not super physical, average instincts for an 3-4 ILB, couldnt play as a 4-3 Mike.
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ratbastich
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Post by ratbastich on Mar 23, 2020 12:30:50 GMT -5
I know nothing about this guy but I can imagine he hangs out with Bif, Tyler, Tanner and Buffy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 13:00:26 GMT -5
We sure do a lot of repeats around here. Posters must realize, how silly it sounds to knock a differing opinion because a poster uses some analysis that suggest a poor signing, while all the happy meal posters that are "tingled and pleasured by the signing" have a single tackle stat to create their approval. At least advance this debate towards the final area of proven disagreement...into "the coaching and scouting know more then we do"...thus rendering any and all opinions of fans naught, and turn this entire fan board a bunch of Giants GM yes men... James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course.
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Post by infinite420 on Mar 23, 2020 14:19:12 GMT -5
We sure do a lot of repeats around here. Posters must realize, how silly it sounds to knock a differing opinion because a poster uses some analysis that suggest a poor signing, while all the happy meal posters that are "tingled and pleasured by the signing" have a single tackle stat to create their approval. At least advance this debate towards the final area of proven disagreement...into "the coaching and scouting know more then we do"...thus rendering any and all opinions of fans naught, and turn this entire fan board a bunch of Giants GM yes men... James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course. We definitely overpaid for both, but I cant justify DG overpaying a 3-4 ILB. On the other hand, when you need a #1 CB in FA, youre going to overpay. Luckily Bradberry is one of the best CBs not many people know about. I think most will be pleasantly suprised with him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 15:14:46 GMT -5
We sure do a lot of repeats around here. Posters must realize, how silly it sounds to knock a differing opinion because a poster uses some analysis that suggest a poor signing, while all the happy meal posters that are "tingled and pleasured by the signing" have a single tackle stat to create their approval. At least advance this debate towards the final area of proven disagreement...into "the coaching and scouting know more then we do"...thus rendering any and all opinions of fans naught, and turn this entire fan board a bunch of Giants GM yes men... James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course. I will disagree with the Bradberry signing I think it was a good one.. I was hoping for Littleton and a vet center but that's not happening..
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 23, 2020 16:25:53 GMT -5
James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course. Shall we be taking notes on this so we can revisit later in the year and laugh at which ever side was wrong?
This money puts him in the Lavonte David, Leonard Floyd, Jamie Collins, Benardrick McKinney area. I think that is about right for the type of player he is. Above him is Schobert, Jaylon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan and Cory Littleton; all of whom he should be below IMO. Seems about right.
Now that is not to say you or anyone should like the signing, if you don't like him that is another story but I think the money is pretty much where it should be for the level/type of player he is. I would like this signing much more if we had someone in the LB room that could cover.
As for Bradberry I think you are just wrong. He is a very good coverage CB that gave up 1 TD all year in a division playing the Bucs, Saints and Falcons twice. He replaces our #1 CB that gave up 3 TDs in one half vs the Bucs last year lol.
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