Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 10:15:13 GMT -5
I don’t know why everyone is hating on Martinez. They guy is an absolute Beast. 2019 155 Tackles 2018 144 Tackles 2017 144 Tackles Is it just his coverage skills that are being questioned? He has a High Football IQ I have read. He was the Defensive Signal caller and was responsible for making all the adjustments. He was continually rearranging fronts, communicating with the secondary, and audibling plays to the offenses’ actions. Is Schobert and Littleton better???? Maybe yeah. Maybe not. Perhaps even we could get those two sooo went with who we could get which finally gets to my point. Martinez is MUCH better then Ogletree. The goal of our team is to always upgrade players which is exactly what we did. Another point is players perform differently under different DCs. I am going to take a wait and see approach I don't know why either. Most people here seem to like the signing. A small "noisy" few are trying to tear the signing up. One group is upset he isn't a coverage LB, which is true, but we need more than just coverage LBs. We need guys exactly like you described Martinez. Other people just hate anything DG does and hide behind "advance PFF stats" as to why they hate Martinez. Apparently they didn't like where on the field he made his tackles lmao.
You nailed it on the head though. The goal in free agency is to upgrade as much as possible. Martinez is an upgrade over OTree, while still bringing the leadership that Tree brough; he is an upgrade over Mayo (who I'm a big fan of) and he could be an upgrade over post knee surgery Connelly. I agree with the wait and see approach. Don't lose faith I think many more people like the signing than hate it.
I think I the psychology behind people’s reactions is that if they don’t get who they want whoever we do get obviously sucks. Look I want Becton. Just because he is huge and I watched him throw grown men around like Rag Dolls. I get most of my football knowledge from NFL Network and reading on the internet. I don’t scout players, I don’t have inside tips. Not even sure what analytics is. If DG and his highly trained scouts think differently then me Then fine. You won’t hear my screaming Simmons sucks, Okudahs the worst. Jeudy is worse then Odell. Fire Gettleman. Fire Judge. Ahhhhhh
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 28, 2020 10:18:23 GMT -5
I think I the psychology behind people’s reactions is that if they don’t get who they want whoever we do get obviously sucks. Look I want Becton. Just because he is huge and I watched him throw grown men around like Rag Dolls. I get most of my football knowledge from NFL Network and reading on the internet. I don’t scout players, I don’t have inside tips. Not even sure what analytics is. If DG and his highly trained scouts think differently then me Then fine. You won’t hear my screaming Simmons sucks, Okudahs the worst. Jeudy is worse then Odell. Fire Gettleman. Fire Judge. Ahhhhhh I wish everyone had that mentality. I wanted a coverage LB and we didn't get one of the guys out there, but that has nothing to do with Martinez so I'm not going to freak out.
Man Becton is so impressive to watch. I want Simmons but if we go with Becton I will be very happy and will enjoy The Mountain tossing dudes around.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Mar 28, 2020 10:26:33 GMT -5
I think I the psychology behind people’s reactions is that if they don’t get who they want whoever we do get obviously sucks. Look I want Becton. Just because he is huge and I watched him throw grown men around like Rag Dolls. I get most of my football knowledge from NFL Network and reading on the internet. I don’t scout players, I don’t have inside tips. Not even sure what analytics is. If DG and his highly trained scouts think differently then me Then fine. You won’t hear my screaming Simmons sucks, Okudahs the worst. Jeudy is worse then Odell. Fire Gettleman. Fire Judge. Ahhhhhh I wish everyone had that mentality. I wanted a coverage LB and we didn't get one of the guys out there, but that has nothing to do with Martinez so I'm not going to freak out.
Man Becton is so impressive to watch. I want Simmons but if we go with Becton I will be very happy and will enjoy The Mountain tossing dudes around.
I don't mind any pick we make. I give my opinion on what I think. That is the fun of the offseason. The FO is going to do what it is going to do. No amount of bitching, hissy fits, stomping up and down is going to change that in pre, during or post draft. Either accept it or not. We no say at all.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 28, 2020 10:28:54 GMT -5
I don't mind any pick we make. I give my opinion on what I think. That is the fun of the offseason. The FO is going to do what it is going to do. No amount of bitching, hissy fits, stomping up and down is going to change that in pre, during or post draft. Either accept it or not. We no say at all. It won't help if I add Simmons as my avatar picture?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 10:35:22 GMT -5
What exactly are you qualifications as a scout ,why should we listen to you? Im not a scout, I did play LBer in HS, so I know a little bit about the position Haha Brother. No Disrespect but you’re comparing High School Football to the NFL. Look I play put put golf. Does that qualify me to give Tiger Woods tips?
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Mar 28, 2020 10:36:51 GMT -5
Im not a scout, I did play LBer in HS, so I know a little bit about the position Haha Brother. No Disrespect but you’re comparing High School Football to the NFL. Look I play put put golf. Does that qualify me to give Tiger Woods tips? well.....at least on putting you could give him a few pointers. Especially with tricky lies and bad greens...lol
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 10:39:57 GMT -5
There is a good article in the Post today about the Giants scheme vs the Green Bay scheme and how that should help Martinez immensely against the run by having more run stoppers in front of him and allowing him to set up closer to the line of scrimmage. 90% of everything we hear is spin so who knows? They did say that it looks like a NE Pats move that takes advantages of what people do well (tackle in Martinez' case) and minimize the opponents ability to exploit their weaknesses. We'll see.... ILBs need to do more than tackle, which Martinez barely does. Ogletree used to be a 120+ tackle guy too before we acquired him, and we all saw how that panned out here. He was terrible, just like fans of the Rams knew already. This is Ogletree pt2, if he was any good the Pack would have resigned him. Connelly is already a better LB after one year in the league. Connelly played 4, I repeat 4 games in his entire NFL Career. Let’s pump the breaks a little bit
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 10:44:54 GMT -5
We sure do a lot of repeats around here. Posters must realize, how silly it sounds to knock a differing opinion because a poster uses some analysis that suggest a poor signing, while all the happy meal posters that are "tingled and pleasured by the signing" have a single tackle stat to create their approval. At least advance this debate towards the final area of proven disagreement...into "the coaching and scouting know more then we do"...thus rendering any and all opinions of fans naught, and turn this entire fan board a bunch of Giants GM yes men... James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course. So I am interested in your opinion here. Who would you have signed to upgrade our horrendous secondary and our horrendous linebackers. You can’t use players that were signed to other teams ( or Jones, Littleton) because neither of us know how much GM tried or even if the players wanted to come here
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 10:46:48 GMT -5
We sure do a lot of repeats around here. Posters must realize, how silly it sounds to knock a differing opinion because a poster uses some analysis that suggest a poor signing, while all the happy meal posters that are "tingled and pleasured by the signing" have a single tackle stat to create their approval. At least advance this debate towards the final area of proven disagreement...into "the coaching and scouting know more then we do"...thus rendering any and all opinions of fans naught, and turn this entire fan board a bunch of Giants GM yes men... James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course. We definitely overpaid for both, but I cant justify DG overpaying a 3-4 ILB. On the other hand, when you need a #1 CB in FA, youre going to overpay. Luckily Bradberry is one of the best CBs not many people know about. I think most will be pleasantly suprised with him. Everyone overpays in FA. That’s just the nature of the beast. I agree with you though. A lot of people are going to be surprised with Bradberry
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 10:47:56 GMT -5
Haha Brother. No Disrespect but you’re comparing High School Football to the NFL. Look I play put put golf. Does that qualify me to give Tiger Woods tips? well.....at least on putting you could give him a few pointers. Especially with tricky lies and bad greens...lol Or the Windmill that gets soo many people at the end
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 12:09:56 GMT -5
We sure do a lot of repeats around here. Posters must realize, how silly it sounds to knock a differing opinion because a poster uses some analysis that suggest a poor signing, while all the happy meal posters that are "tingled and pleasured by the signing" have a single tackle stat to create their approval. At least advance this debate towards the final area of proven disagreement...into "the coaching and scouting know more then we do"...thus rendering any and all opinions of fans naught, and turn this entire fan board a bunch of Giants GM yes men... James Bradberry and Blake Martinez were too much money for too little skill...not even average signings...poor signings. IMHO of course. So I am interested in your opinion here. Who would you have signed to upgrade our horrendous secondary and our horrendous linebackers. You can’t use players that were signed to other teams ( or Jones, Littleton) because neither of us know how much GM tried or even if the players wanted to come here It's the nature of free agency...you have a balance sheet to start with, and you have to deal with where a player might want to play, and who gives them the most cash...or in the Bradberry case, the love and understanding he and Dave Gettleman once shared, before he became the third highest paid cornerback in the league. The Giants need linebackers, and they have a guy who in 2018, was great against the pass, and makes stops versus just tackles....and a guy who has potential to be a nice leader to what many hope will be a new system versus just a team based upon pure individual talents. If there is one new found hope we have, it is the connection of Judge towards a team he was groomed by, a team that installs a mutating system to every single moving part. If any of that can be translated vs a set in one singular system the Giants have recently gone by, and the talent level that is severely lacking can be adjusted, and lifted into a coaches vision, and players can be as Judge suggests, multi dimensional...I can also feel it, that hope...IOW, similar to when cooking the bag of popcorn in the microwave, and getting every kernel to pop... before some blacken, or too soon and having a bunch o dead kernels. It's all about the popcorn. Burn it, and the movie is ruined, don't pop enough, and you miss the first half making another bag.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 28, 2020 12:38:43 GMT -5
Connelly played 4, I repeat 4 games in his entire NFL Career. Let’s pump the breaks a little bit I'm a big Connelly fan but he played 4 games and is coming off major knee surgery playing for a new HC and DC. We can't honestly assess what the kid will bring this year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 12:43:49 GMT -5
Connelly played 4, I repeat 4 games in his entire NFL Career. Let’s pump the breaks a little bit I'm a big Connelly fan but he played 4 games and is coming off major knee surgery playing for a new HC and DC. We can't honestly assess what the kid will bring this year. Yes, that is why we signed Blake Martinez and Mayo...reason seems rather palpable
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 13:39:58 GMT -5
So I am interested in your opinion here. Who would you have signed to upgrade our horrendous secondary and our horrendous linebackers. You can’t use players that were signed to other teams ( or Jones, Littleton) because neither of us know how much GM tried or even if the players wanted to come here It's the nature of free agency...you have a balance sheet to start with, and you have to deal with where a player might want to play, and who gives them the most cash...or in the Bradberry case, the love and understanding he and Dave Gettleman once shared, before he became the third highest paid cornerback in the league. The Giants need linebackers, and they have a guy who in 2018, was great against the pass, and makes stops versus just tackles....and a guy who has potential to be a nice leader to what many hope will be a new system versus just a team based upon pure individual talents. If there is one new found hope we have, it is the connection of Judge towards a team he was groomed by, a team that installs a mutating system to every single moving part. If any of that can be translated vs a set in one singular system the Giants have recently gone by, and the talent level that is severely lacking can be adjusted, and lifted into a coaches vision, and players can be as Judge suggests, multi dimensional...I can also feel it, that hope...IOW, similar to when cooking the bag of popcorn in the microwave, and getting every kernel to pop... before some blacken, or too soon and having a bunch o dead kernels. It's all about the popcorn. Burn it, and the movie is ruined, don't pop enough, and you miss the first half making another bag. Sooo you wouldn’t have signed anyone in free agency and just hoped for a super star player to emerge from the devastation ( your popcorn analogy) You are ok with having 1 possible starting CB (Baker). And the best linebacker, I don’t want to put words in your mouth but guessing you would go with Connelly or Mayo? Wow bro. You have been 🍺 way too much.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 14:08:23 GMT -5
It's the nature of free agency...you have a balance sheet to start with, and you have to deal with where a player might want to play, and who gives them the most cash...or in the Bradberry case, the love and understanding he and Dave Gettleman once shared, before he became the third highest paid cornerback in the league. The Giants need linebackers, and they have a guy who in 2018, was great against the pass, and makes stops versus just tackles....and a guy who has potential to be a nice leader to what many hope will be a new system versus just a team based upon pure individual talents. If there is one new found hope we have, it is the connection of Judge towards a team he was groomed by, a team that installs a mutating system to every single moving part. If any of that can be translated vs a set in one singular system the Giants have recently gone by, and the talent level that is severely lacking can be adjusted, and lifted into a coaches vision, and players can be as Judge suggests, multi dimensional...I can also feel it, that hope...IOW, similar to when cooking the bag of popcorn in the microwave, and getting every kernel to pop... before some blacken, or too soon and having a bunch o dead kernels. It's all about the popcorn. Burn it, and the movie is ruined, don't pop enough, and you miss the first half making another bag. Sooo you wouldn’t have signed anyone in free agency and just hoped for a super star player to emerge from the devastation ( your popcorn analogy) You are ok with having 1 possible starting CB (Baker). And the best linebacker, I don’t want to put words in your mouth but guessing you would go with Connelly or Mayo? Wow bro. You have been 🍺 way too much. Noooo, I would have signed another corner free agent if possible, for a bit less as I'm not sold on Bradberry especially as the 3rd highest paid CB, and looked to draft another in the middle round in a deep draft of corners...we have some great ones coming out, many that can cover the slot as a nickel. This is also a deep draft in mid round for cover linebackers...but I enjoy the assumption of direction we are going this draft with these signings my friendly brother...looking like we are finally going to build the wall.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Mar 28, 2020 15:05:11 GMT -5
I wish everyone had that mentality. I wanted a coverage LB and we didn't get one of the guys out there, but that has nothing to do with Martinez so I'm not going to freak out.
Man Becton is so impressive to watch. I want Simmons but if we go with Becton I will be very happy and will enjoy The Mountain tossing dudes around.
I don't mind any pick we make. I give my opinion on what I think. That is the fun of the offseason. The FO is going to do what it is going to do. No amount of bitching, hissy fits, stomping up and down is going to change that in pre, during or post draft. Either accept it or not. We no say at all. Correct. However, one of the main point of these forums is speaking with like-minded Giants fans to see if management is doing good with the power they have, nothing more. As evidenced with the last decade of football.. the results are what they are. The fundamental mindset hasn't changed with this management and how they view team building. What was that one quote.. the definition of insanity...
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Mar 28, 2020 15:15:47 GMT -5
I don't mind any pick we make. I give my opinion on what I think. That is the fun of the offseason. The FO is going to do what it is going to do. No amount of bitching, hissy fits, stomping up and down is going to change that in pre, during or post draft. Either accept it or not. We no say at all. Correct. However, one of the main point of these forums is speaking with like-minded Giants fans to see if management is doing good with the power they have, nothing more. As evidenced with the last decade of football.. the results are what they are. The fundamental mindset hasn't changed with this management and how they view team building. What was that one quote.. the definition of insanity... We have won in the last decade . One of a few that have. And I get what you saying. The same can be said for most of the league. It is the NFL in general.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 15:24:59 GMT -5
Sooo you wouldn’t have signed anyone in free agency and just hoped for a super star player to emerge from the devastation ( your popcorn analogy) You are ok with having 1 possible starting CB (Baker). And the best linebacker, I don’t want to put words in your mouth but guessing you would go with Connelly or Mayo? Wow bro. You have been 🍺 way too much. Noooo, I would have signed another corner free agent if possible, for a bit less as I'm not sold on Bradberry especially as the 3rd highest paid CB, and looked to draft another in the middle round in a deep draft of corners...we have some great ones coming out, many that can cover the slot as a nickel. This is also a deep draft in mid round for cover linebackers...but I enjoy the assumption of direction we are going this draft with these signings my friendly brother...looking like we are finally going to build the wall. Name that CB, I’ll even let you determine for what price we would have paid. You’re dancing around the question. Just stick to you guns and admit you would have criticized whoever we signed. Your plan was to sign some unknown cornerback who would be better and cheaper then Bradberry and not signed any linebackers even though we have to use 80 something percent of our cap
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 28, 2020 15:52:36 GMT -5
Name that CB, I’ll even let you determine for what price we would have paid. You’re dancing around the question. Just stick to you guns and admit you would have criticized whoever we signed. Your plan was to sign some unknown cornerback who would be better and cheaper then Bradberry and not signed any linebackers even though we have to use 80 something percent of our cap Good luck lol.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 28, 2020 15:55:54 GMT -5
Correct. However, one of the main point of these forums is speaking with like-minded Giants fans to see if management is doing good with the power they have, nothing more. As evidenced with the last decade of football.. the results are what they are. The fundamental mindset hasn't changed with this management and how they view team building. What was that one quote.. the definition of insanity... There are no like minded fans here lmao. And I sure as hell don't think this forum should be the determining factor of management doing a good job or not. We could win a Super Bowl and someone would complain that our run pass ratio was way off.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 16:28:24 GMT -5
Noooo, I would have signed another corner free agent if possible, for a bit less as I'm not sold on Bradberry especially as the 3rd highest paid CB, and looked to draft another in the middle round in a deep draft of corners...we have some great ones coming out, many that can cover the slot as a nickel. This is also a deep draft in mid round for cover linebackers...but I enjoy the assumption of direction we are going this draft with these signings my friendly brother...looking like we are finally going to build the wall. Name that CB, I’ll even let you determine for what price we would have paid. You’re dancing around the question. Just stick to you guns and admit you would have criticized whoever we signed. Your plan was to sign some unknown cornerback who would be better and cheaper then Bradberry and not signed any linebackers even though we have to use 80 something percent of our capIf you go the draft section, and the mock draft thread, I have many fantasy GM FA signings... and mock drafts not only listing the player, but the amount in GM la la land...it's part of the ultimate GM experience...oh, and the corners I would draft. I've even suggested many a cornerback I would sign in many posts. Who suggested not signing a linebacker? You're abundance of urgency is refreshing, yet it still does not change the fact I find Bradberry and Martinez ... loathsome signings.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Mar 28, 2020 22:47:26 GMT -5
Correct. However, one of the main point of these forums is speaking with like-minded Giants fans to see if management is doing good with the power they have, nothing more. As evidenced with the last decade of football.. the results are what they are. The fundamental mindset hasn't changed with this management and how they view team building. What was that one quote.. the definition of insanity... There are no like minded fans here lmao. And I sure as hell don't think this forum should be the determining factor of management doing a good job or not. We could win a Super Bowl and someone would complain that our run pass ratio was way off. Like minded in that all want the Giants to succeed, I believe. I like the back and forth, as long it stays lighthearted, because it is just a fan board, ffs. And I would really hate for everyone to be so positive and optimisticcally holding hands and singing songs about these great Giants. They aren't good. So I guess the how they get there is really the only conversation worth having because they ain't winning. And no fans should ever agree about how they get there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 23:33:12 GMT -5
Correct. However, one of the main point of these forums is speaking with like-minded Giants fans to see if management is doing good with the power they have, nothing more. As evidenced with the last decade of football.. the results are what they are. The fundamental mindset hasn't changed with this management and how they view team building. What was that one quote.. the definition of insanity... There are no like minded fans here lmao. And I sure as hell don't think this forum should be the determining factor of management doing a good job or not. We could win a Super Bowl and someone would complain that our run pass ratio was way off. You need to purchase NY Giant stock Mike...it's that time.
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Mar 29, 2020 1:36:49 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. I dunno, sounds like DGs version of the AP signing. That being said, I wanted Littleton or Schobert over Martinez
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 7:36:41 GMT -5
Im usually on board with DGs signings, but this one is a head scratcher for me. Big liability vs the pass, and the other area he should he good at, which is vs the run, hes nearly as bad, lacks instincts big time, hits the wrong gaps often. Dont let the tackle numbers fool you. This isnt Antonio Pierce, where you knew he was a liability in coverage, but made up for it with instincts and by being a field general. Im usually no Debbie Downer, but this signing reeks of desperation. I dunno, sounds like DGs version of the AP signing. That being said, I wanted Littleton or Schobert over Martinez This does seem like the same signing as AP. He wasn't the player I was hoping for but he has worked with some of the coaches before so he will hopefully bring some understanding and leadership to this defense!!
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 29, 2020 8:08:49 GMT -5
There are no like minded fans here lmao. And I sure as hell don't think this forum should be the determining factor of management doing a good job or not. We could win a Super Bowl and someone would complain that our run pass ratio was way off. Like minded in that all want the Giants to succeed, I believe. I like the back and forth, as long it stays lighthearted, because it is just a fan board, ffs. And I would really hate for everyone to be so positive and optimisticcally holding hands and singing songs about these great Giants. They aren't good. So I guess the how they get there is really the only conversation worth having because they ain't winning. And no fans should ever agree about how they get there. If we all agreed I would never come here haha.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 29, 2020 8:11:14 GMT -5
I dunno, sounds like DGs version of the AP signing. That being said, I wanted Littleton or Schobert over Martinez We don't win that Super Bowl without AP. We don't make it past Green Bay even. Remember his 1 handed tackle?
I agree I wanted Littleton or Schobert to fill our pass coverage hole in the LB unit. Martinez fills a different hole which I'll take.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Mar 29, 2020 8:26:17 GMT -5
I dunno, sounds like DGs version of the AP signing. That being said, I wanted Littleton or Schobert over Martinez Martinez fills a different hole which I'll take.
lol.... too funny not to cherry pick this statement...
|
|
|
Post by Delicreep on Mar 29, 2020 8:38:05 GMT -5
I dunno, sounds like DGs version of the AP signing. That being said, I wanted Littleton or Schobert over Martinez This does seem like the same signing as AP. He wasn't the player I was hoping for but he has worked with some of the coaches before so he will hopefully bring some understanding and leadership to this defense!! Boy...I just question if Judge would sign off on a player he does not totally see as a difference maker for the team. That may well mean a player whose biggest asset is between his ear holes. So I am hoping this particular piece will help the back 7 play on the same page, something sorely missing last season.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Mar 29, 2020 8:39:24 GMT -5
Martinez fills a different hole which I'll take.
lol.... too funny not to cherry pick this statement...
lol, not as bad as yesterday when I said I want LBs that can get themselves off.
|
|