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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 10:10:59 GMT -5
I don't understand your answer - are you doing your own evals or relying on internet evaluations? Personally, I don't evaluate on my own … just rely upon certain internet guys who I respect (former NFL guys, etc.). Try not to pay any attention to the "mom's basement scouts" who set up their own "scouting" site and are now suddenly scouts (Draft Network, etc.) I personally watch guys and see what I think, but I also understand I am no one special. In this case I am not talking about my own opinion but taking a historical look at BPA. When you have 4 guys and the world (former NFL guys, draft "gurus", people in general) can't come to any type of consensus that usually means none of them are great (doesn't mean bad, again talking the top 1% here).
Year after year guys rise to the top as great prospects and they are always judged far above their peers. Even, like in 2017, when two guys in the same position are judge as great prospects (Garret and Thomas) there are never four of them from one position. Again this is not to say those guys can't be successful, I'm strictly talking about a judging of BPA prospect. IMO there are usually 1-5 truly special prospects in each class (excluding QBs). Like in 2018 with Barkley, Nelson, Ward, Roquan Smith and Chubb. This does not mean guys like VanderEsch can't find success, but no one thought he was a better prospect than Smith.
Just curious which guys do you respect and follow? Do they have a consensus for which OT is the best?
To be fair though if DG drafts Thomas/Becton/Fab 4 then I will assume he rated that guy as high or close to as high as Simmons/Okudah ect.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 10:22:46 GMT -5
I don't understand your answer To make it more clear. If you look at NFL.com as a random example there are 5 guys this year rated 7+. Those are the top tier best PROSPECTs (doesn't mean they end up the best players).
Young, Okudah, Brown, Simmons, Burrow. 2019 had 3 guys rated that high. Josh Allen went #7. I think you would agree that we didn't go BPA and took Jones because we needed a QB. I thought Jones was awesome, but I still didn't rate him higher than Allen.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2020 10:52:29 GMT -5
I don't understand your answer - are you doing your own evals or relying on internet evaluations? Personally, I don't evaluate on my own … just rely upon certain internet guys who I respect (former NFL guys, etc.). Try not to pay any attention to the "mom's basement scouts" who set up their own "scouting" site and are now suddenly scouts (Draft Network, etc.) I personally watch guys and see what I think, but I also understand I am no one special. In this case I am not talking about my own opinion but taking a historical look at BPA. When you have 4 guys and the world (former NFL guys, draft "gurus", people in general) can't come to any type of consensus that usually means none of them are great (doesn't mean bad, again talking the top 1% here).
Year after year guys rise to the top as great prospects and they are always judged far above their peers. Even, like in 2017, when two guys in the same position are judge as great prospects (Garret and Thomas) there are never four of them from one position. Again this is not to say those guys can't be successful, I'm strictly talking about a judging of BPA prospect. IMO there are usually 1-5 truly special prospects in each class (excluding QBs). Like in 2018 with Barkley, Nelson, Ward, Roquan Smith and Chubb. This does not mean guys like VanderEsch can't find success, but no one thought he was a better prospect than Smith.
Just curious which guys do you respect and follow? Do they have a consensus for which OT is the best?
To be fair though if DG drafts Thomas/Becton/Fab 4 then I will assume he rated that guy as high or close to as high as Simmons/Okudah ect.
I like Bill Polian, Greg Gabriel, Jim Nagy, Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Greg Cosell and Pat Kirwan. Also like Dane Brugler among the guys with no NFL playing or scouting experience....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 12:01:23 GMT -5
I personally watch guys and see what I think, but I also understand I am no one special. In this case I am not talking about my own opinion but taking a historical look at BPA. When you have 4 guys and the world (former NFL guys, draft "gurus", people in general) can't come to any type of consensus that usually means none of them are great (doesn't mean bad, again talking the top 1% here).
Year after year guys rise to the top as great prospects and they are always judged far above their peers. Even, like in 2017, when two guys in the same position are judge as great prospects (Garret and Thomas) there are never four of them from one position. Again this is not to say those guys can't be successful, I'm strictly talking about a judging of BPA prospect. IMO there are usually 1-5 truly special prospects in each class (excluding QBs). Like in 2018 with Barkley, Nelson, Ward, Roquan Smith and Chubb. This does not mean guys like VanderEsch can't find success, but no one thought he was a better prospect than Smith.
Just curious which guys do you respect and follow? Do they have a consensus for which OT is the best?
To be fair though if DG drafts Thomas/Becton/Fab 4 then I will assume he rated that guy as high or close to as high as Simmons/Okudah ect.
I like Bill Polian, Greg Gabriel, Jim Nagy, Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Greg Cosell and Pat Kirwan. Also like Dane Brugler among the guys with no NFL playing or scouting experience.... I also like Brugler, DJ and BB...your list, I do listen to Lance Zierlein and Bob McGinn seems to get his research done well. Once they and others give a general rotten tomatoes consensus on players, especially to the Giants, or a player I feel the Giants might be able to use...off to google and search every video and article about them. On and on throughout the year. Tougher to learn the later prospects, that's where you telling us it being silly doing what we do in the play mocks could ring some truth, as that is IMHO, where the "real" scouts earn their money...finding that 6th round starter while we still are taking Becton and Mims in the 7th round. Those like myself who watch and follow college ball will hear and read of new talented names finally starting and starring, and when we finally get to see them play, you can sort of concentrate a bit, knowing that player could be a Giant. All rather boring stuff for most, but it's all in what you find enjoyment...arguing the value of a running back 12 times a year without a change of any mind and the Leonard Williams price every day, same stuff said...over and over, and ...over.... or playing a game where the ultimate finally is all about improvement of the NY Giants.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 26, 2020 13:14:24 GMT -5
I personally watch guys and see what I think, but I also understand I am no one special. In this case I am not talking about my own opinion but taking a historical look at BPA. When you have 4 guys and the world (former NFL guys, draft "gurus", people in general) can't come to any type of consensus that usually means none of them are great (doesn't mean bad, again talking the top 1% here).
Year after year guys rise to the top as great prospects and they are always judged far above their peers. Even, like in 2017, when two guys in the same position are judge as great prospects (Garret and Thomas) there are never four of them from one position. Again this is not to say those guys can't be successful, I'm strictly talking about a judging of BPA prospect. IMO there are usually 1-5 truly special prospects in each class (excluding QBs). Like in 2018 with Barkley, Nelson, Ward, Roquan Smith and Chubb. This does not mean guys like VanderEsch can't find success, but no one thought he was a better prospect than Smith.
Just curious which guys do you respect and follow? Do they have a consensus for which OT is the best?
To be fair though if DG drafts Thomas/Becton/Fab 4 then I will assume he rated that guy as high or close to as high as Simmons/Okudah ect.
I like Bill Polian, Greg Gabriel, Jim Nagy, Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Greg Cosell and Pat Kirwan. Also like Dane Brugler among the guys with no NFL playing or scouting experience.... Don't forget Gil Brandt At his advanced age he would still be a better GM then half of them out there
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Post by fifthavephil on Mar 26, 2020 13:24:49 GMT -5
I like Bill Polian, Greg Gabriel, Jim Nagy, Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Greg Cosell and Pat Kirwan. Also like Dane Brugler among the guys with no NFL playing or scouting experience.... Don't forget Gil Brandt At his advanced age he would still be a better GM then half of them out there Has anyone listened to Valentine podcast on BBV ? He has Jim Nagy talking about the draft , including the Giants.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2020 14:47:48 GMT -5
I like Bill Polian, Greg Gabriel, Jim Nagy, Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Greg Cosell and Pat Kirwan. Also like Dane Brugler among the guys with no NFL playing or scouting experience.... Don't forget Gil Brandt At his advanced age he would still be a better GM then half of them out there My bad … I like Gil Brandt too!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 16:28:38 GMT -5
Don't forget Gil Brandt At his advanced age he would still be a better GM then half of them out there Has anyone listened to Valentine podcast on BBV ? He has Jim Nagy talking about the draft , including the Giants. Simmons and Brown...any OT taken over them is need. If the Giants draft Brown at 4....this board would tremor. I can only think of one poster who would put a positive spin on that pick....
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Post by fifthavephil on Mar 26, 2020 22:29:40 GMT -5
Has anyone listened to Valentine podcast on BBV ? He has Jim Nagy talking about the draft , including the Giants. Simmons and Brown...any OT taken over them is need. If the Giants draft Brown at 4....this board would tremor. I can only think of one poster who would put a positive spin on that pick.... Nagy , point was Simmons and Brown,were rated(BPA) higher, then the big four OT. But, he did say the Giants should trade down and acquire more picks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 12:06:58 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. It's absolutely possible, but I disagree it makes us go OT. We go OT if we think OT is the best position available I actually believe DG would draft Okudah if he thinks he's worth the #4 pick. I don't think the Bradberry acquisition would sway DG not to, he's done similar things in the past. In fact, if we decided to draft Okudah, we'd have one of the best groups of CB's in the NFL, if not the best.....at least on paper. That's pretty attractive in a "passing league." If we stay at #4, I want an OT. No doubt. I'm a fan of the Fab 4 prospects, and think they'd all be upgrades on the right side. That said, and I'll continue to say it, don't be shocked if DG ends up going OLB, CB, WR, or even DL, at #4, and addresses the OL in later rounds. It's a deep draft for OL talent, and DG has a track record of finding studs in mid/late rounds. Arguably one of the best Secondaries In the NFL is exciting. We also have Arguably one of the best Defensive lines as well. Also improvement in our linebackers. How our Defense would not be better is hard to believe
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 12:09:11 GMT -5
It's very possible. I want to remove all temptation of them drafting Simmons to focus on the LT. We know NYG are not taking Okudah for sure, after the Bradberry signing. Lions would really help us by drafting Simmons and not making it a choice to go LT. If Simmons is available at #4 and we pass, then Dave is full of shit when he talks about "BPA".
Other than Chase Young, Simmons is pretty much the best player in this draft.
Now if he picks Becton at #4 I would give him a pass because that kid has a chance to be the best OT in the league. But right now, Simmons is a better player.
Everyone ranks players differently. Maybe you have Simmons as the best player in the draft but our scouts don’t. Totally with you on Becton though. I know it’s a risk but I feel the reward is HUGE
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 4, 2020 15:19:53 GMT -5
Paul Dotino on BBKL is really pushing for drafting Simmons at 4.
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Post by infinite420 on Apr 5, 2020 9:39:32 GMT -5
You've evaluated these players and determined that Simmons is rated higher than all of the OT's? If we had a great OL this board would be losing their Fing minds at the thought of not picking Simmons. He is absolutely the best player after Young.
We have such a massive need for an OL so people are convincing themselves these OL are as good as him. They are good, it's a great OT year, but not a single one of them is on his level. If they were there would not be a debate about which OT is the best, that guy would be the best according to everyone. Do you see anyone debating who is better Simmons or Murray/Queen? No. People can't figure out which OT is the best because either A) they are all very good players but not great or B) this year for the first time ever we have 4 world class OTs in one draft class. Which one seems more likely?
IMO, Murray is a far better LB than Simmons
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Post by infinite420 on Apr 5, 2020 9:43:31 GMT -5
Has anyone listened to Valentine podcast on BBV ? He has Jim Nagy talking about the draft , including the Giants. Simmons and Brown...any OT taken over them is need. If the Giants draft Brown at 4....this board would tremor. I can only think of one poster who would put a positive spin on that pick.... Brown may end up being the best DT in the NFL, hes incredible pass rusher for such a dominant run stuffing DT.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 10:01:20 GMT -5
If we had a great OL this board would be losing their Fing minds at the thought of not picking Simmons. He is absolutely the best player after Young.
We have such a massive need for an OL so people are convincing themselves these OL are as good as him. They are good, it's a great OT year, but not a single one of them is on his level. If they were there would not be a debate about which OT is the best, that guy would be the best according to everyone. Do you see anyone debating who is better Simmons or Murray/Queen? No. People can't figure out which OT is the best because either A) they are all very good players but not great or B) this year for the first time ever we have 4 world class OTs in one draft class. Which one seems more likely?
IMO, Murray is a far better LB than Simmons I like Queen better than both But yeah An actual linebacker
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 5, 2020 10:26:40 GMT -5
IMO, Murray is a far better LB than Simmons That's fine. Murray is a stud. I don't agree with you but he is a stud.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 5, 2020 10:27:51 GMT -5
IMO, Murray is a far better LB than Simmons I like Queen better than both But yeah An actual linebacker haha your hate for Simmons is hilarious. "An actual LB" lmao.
Queen and Murray are both studs I would love to have on this team.
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Post by infinite420 on Apr 5, 2020 11:15:11 GMT -5
IMO, Murray is a far better LB than Simmons I like Queen better than both But yeah An actual linebacker I see Queen more as an ILB, which would make sense if we didnt sign Martinez. I see Murray as more of an OLB, which IMO is more of a need than ILB.
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