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Post by piddy283 on Mar 24, 2020 8:23:02 GMT -5
Was using the Google, and found this article regarding potential trade back scenarios. This writer uses some trade value chart as his source to create realistic trades with the Dolphins, Chargers, and Panthers. Articles and discussions around trading back intrigue me, because trading back is my preferred option in this year's draft. Something that has stood out to me is I've noticed is folks seem to completely undervalue and undersell the #4 pick in this years draft. I'm sure these value charts are a nice benchmark for basic trades, but I can't imagine they take into consideration scenarios where multiple teams are bidding to trade up for the same pick/player. Then consider the fact this player is a presumed franchise QB, and the value of the pick sky rockets. This article is no different. We've completely undersold ourselves. If we trade back, and only receive what this article mentions in return, I'd be livid. Let's use the Dolphins as the example. The fact the Dolphins are sitting at #5, and we'd only be trading back one spot, should have no bearing on the price tag if other teams are willing to pay more. In my opinion, and simply considering picks in 2020, I'd expect us to walk away with at least two of their 1st round picks, if not all three. If we don't receive all three, then I'd also expect their 2nd or 3rd, and a couple mid/late round picks. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time. giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/what-a-new-york-giants-trade-back-2020-nfl-draft-might-look-like/
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Post by TEM on Mar 24, 2020 8:28:45 GMT -5
Screw all of those scenarios . They want to move up for a QB . Make them pay. How come none of these click baiters never mention what we gave up for Eli.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 24, 2020 8:30:23 GMT -5
dont get "livid" at what hasnt even been approached yet.
lol
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 24, 2020 8:38:07 GMT -5
Was using the Google, and found this article regarding potential trade back scenarios. This writer uses some trade value chart as his source to create realistic trades with the Dolphins, Chargers, and Panthers. Articles and discussions around trading back intrigue me, because trading back is my preferred option in this year's draft. Something that has stood out to me is I've noticed is folks seem to completely undervalue and undersell the #4 pick in this years draft. I'm sure these value charts are a nice benchmark for basic trades, but I can't imagine they take into consideration scenarios where multiple teams are bidding to trade up for the same pick/player. Then consider the fact this player is a presumed franchise QB, and the value of the pick sky rockets. This article is no different. We've completely undersold ourselves. If we trade back, and only receive what this article mentions in return, I'd be livid. Let's use the Dolphins as the example. The fact the Dolphins are sitting at #5, and we'd only be trading back one spot, should have no bearing on the price tag if other teams are willing to pay more. In my opinion, and simply considering picks in 2020, I'd expect us to walk away with at least two of their 1st round picks, if not all three. If we don't receive all three, then I'd also expect their 2nd or 3rd, and a couple mid/late round picks. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time. giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/what-a-new-york-giants-trade-back-2020-nfl-draft-might-look-like/There is no chance in hell that we could get all three of Miami's picks to move back one spot. The only way that our pick will have "bidding war" type value will be if Tua is still on the board when we pick. If Tua goes before we pick, I'm not sure that we will have a market at all to trade down, since I'm not sure that a team will be willing to trade up for Herbert or Love.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 24, 2020 8:51:22 GMT -5
Was using the Google, and found this article regarding potential trade back scenarios. This writer uses some trade value chart as his source to create realistic trades with the Dolphins, Chargers, and Panthers. Articles and discussions around trading back intrigue me, because trading back is my preferred option in this year's draft. Something that has stood out to me is I've noticed is folks seem to completely undervalue and undersell the #4 pick in this years draft. I'm sure these value charts are a nice benchmark for basic trades, but I can't imagine they take into consideration scenarios where multiple teams are bidding to trade up for the same pick/player. Then consider the fact this player is a presumed franchise QB, and the value of the pick sky rockets. This article is no different. We've completely undersold ourselves. If we trade back, and only receive what this article mentions in return, I'd be livid. Let's use the Dolphins as the example. The fact the Dolphins are sitting at #5, and we'd only be trading back one spot, should have no bearing on the price tag if other teams are willing to pay more. In my opinion, and simply considering picks in 2020, I'd expect us to walk away with at least two of their 1st round picks, if not all three. If we don't receive all three, then I'd also expect their 2nd or 3rd, and a couple mid/late round picks. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time. giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/what-a-new-york-giants-trade-back-2020-nfl-draft-might-look-like/I think it’s an interesting topic but I don’t think we’ve undersold ourselves at all just yet, and if Washington throws a wrench in this draft and we end up with Young, then the point is moot. We just need to wait and see. But the one change the Giants must make is using the entire time allotment in order to maximize the opportunity for potential offers. That IMO is where the Giants have erred for years.
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 24, 2020 8:55:41 GMT -5
Was using the Google, and found this article regarding potential trade back scenarios. This writer uses some trade value chart as his source to create realistic trades with the Dolphins, Chargers, and Panthers. Articles and discussions around trading back intrigue me, because trading back is my preferred option in this year's draft. Something that has stood out to me is I've noticed is folks seem to completely undervalue and undersell the #4 pick in this years draft. I'm sure these value charts are a nice benchmark for basic trades, but I can't imagine they take into consideration scenarios where multiple teams are bidding to trade up for the same pick/player. Then consider the fact this player is a presumed franchise QB, and the value of the pick sky rockets. This article is no different. We've completely undersold ourselves. If we trade back, and only receive what this article mentions in return, I'd be livid. Let's use the Dolphins as the example. The fact the Dolphins are sitting at #5, and we'd only be trading back one spot, should have no bearing on the price tag if other teams are willing to pay more. In my opinion, and simply considering picks in 2020, I'd expect us to walk away with at least two of their 1st round picks, if not all three. If we don't receive all three, then I'd also expect their 2nd or 3rd, and a couple mid/late round picks. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time. giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/what-a-new-york-giants-trade-back-2020-nfl-draft-might-look-like/There is no chance in hell that we could get all three of Miami's picks to move back one spot. The only way that our pick will have "bidding war" type value will be if Tua is still on the board when we pick. If Tua goes before we pick, I'm not sure that we will have a market at all to trade down, since I'm not sure that a team will be willing to trade up for Herbert or Love. Maybe not. I might be on the opposite side of the spectrum, but what I've seen and heard from most is underwhelming. We'll get more than what the majority think. Also, I think Herbert, and maybe Love, will end up being in the conversation come draft time. Obviously it'd be better if Tua is there, but I think teams will be wanting to trade up for Herbert. One thing that could potentially put a damper on players rising up big boards is the lack of exposure they have right now with everything going on. I wonder if we'll see more mid-round "gems" this year due to talent falling because of this.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Mar 24, 2020 8:55:54 GMT -5
Just take Thomas and be happy.
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 24, 2020 9:15:34 GMT -5
Was using the Google, and found this article regarding potential trade back scenarios. This writer uses some trade value chart as his source to create realistic trades with the Dolphins, Chargers, and Panthers. Articles and discussions around trading back intrigue me, because trading back is my preferred option in this year's draft. Something that has stood out to me is I've noticed is folks seem to completely undervalue and undersell the #4 pick in this years draft. I'm sure these value charts are a nice benchmark for basic trades, but I can't imagine they take into consideration scenarios where multiple teams are bidding to trade up for the same pick/player. Then consider the fact this player is a presumed franchise QB, and the value of the pick sky rockets. This article is no different. We've completely undersold ourselves. If we trade back, and only receive what this article mentions in return, I'd be livid. Let's use the Dolphins as the example. The fact the Dolphins are sitting at #5, and we'd only be trading back one spot, should have no bearing on the price tag if other teams are willing to pay more. In my opinion, and simply considering picks in 2020, I'd expect us to walk away with at least two of their 1st round picks, if not all three. If we don't receive all three, then I'd also expect their 2nd or 3rd, and a couple mid/late round picks. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time. giantswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/what-a-new-york-giants-trade-back-2020-nfl-draft-might-look-like/I think it’s an interesting topic but I don’t think we’ve undersold ourselves at all just yet, and if Washington throws a wrench in this draft and we end up with Young, then the point is moot. We just need to wait and see. But the one change the Giants must make is using the entire time allotment in order to maximize the opportunity for potential offers. That IMO is where the Giants have erred for years. Well, the past 2 years I think DG just knew exactly the player he wanted and that player was available. You can say he erred with his player evaluation, but not his draft strategy. If the player you want is there you pick him. And this is coming from someone that didnt like the Barkley pick and wanted to trade back that year. Could be totally different this year in that there may not be that "guy" he "loves." If so I'm sure he would listen to more offers.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 24, 2020 9:29:18 GMT -5
If Tua slips to 4, the value of the pick escalates far past the value chart points. It has happened time and time again. If Tua is there (or whoever they value), and Miami and LA wants him, a bidding war ensues and someone will pay via draft capital way more than the equal value on the chart.
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Post by TEM on Mar 24, 2020 9:37:37 GMT -5
If Tua slips to 4, the value of the pick escalates far past the value chart points. It has happened time and time again. If Tua is there (or whoever they value), and Miami and LA wants him, a bidding war ensues and someone will pay via draft capital way more than the equal value on the chart. I agree that value chart does not mean squat when the QB you want is there and the capital to make that happen is available. Some teams will pay 30 million a year for the FA Qb they want. So don't tell me a team will not part with a 2nd first or a 1st and few 2nd round picks to move up to get their Qb.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 24, 2020 9:41:40 GMT -5
I think if the are set on drafting the one of the Fab 3...( Becton 4th option is the last choice IMO and not as a "sure thing" at all) they have some flexibility on where they can draft one of them.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 24, 2020 9:48:40 GMT -5
Im still hoping for a Thomas/Wirfs + Ruiz/Cushenberry package. If those 2 positions get solidified, if helps the entire team out. Obviously helps DJ by giving him more time and confidence, helps Saquon by opening holes and keeping the defense out of the backfield, but also helps the defense by keeping offensive drives moving. Time of possession.
Meat and potatoes draft.
Get it done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 9:55:59 GMT -5
If Tua slips to 4, the value of the pick escalates far past the value chart points. It has happened time and time again. If Tua is there (or whoever they value), and Miami and LA wants him, a bidding war ensues and someone will pay via draft capital way more than the equal value on the chart. I think that this is a reach to claim.. They will always go by the chart and maybe add a slight advantage to the team that has the pick..
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 24, 2020 10:01:15 GMT -5
Just take Thomas and be happy. If we stay at #4, or if we trade back, I'll be happy with Thomas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 10:26:11 GMT -5
While selling some sports collectibles on eBay...before they went buy it now, many years ago...all you needed was two people interested in one unique item, and that item would torch...sniping would sometimes bring in a third person...never underestimate the WAR value a QB has....and if two teams are loving some Love, or Herbert, ANYTHING is possible. Burrow Tua Young ? We then need the Dolphins and Chargers to want a QB they believe can be a franchise. Personally, I don't see either Love or Herbert as worthy of move ups, but who knows...stranger things have happened, and the WAR stat suggests QB's should be taken risks for...far too valuable of a position if you hit on one. And every year, teams do indeed trade up the most for the QB....not a secret. We need an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick badly this year...those first 6 picks then, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4 ....should set this team going forward www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-is-pff-war-and-why-it-shows-russell-wilson-is-the-mvp
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 24, 2020 10:31:49 GMT -5
In an unlikely situation that Redskins go Tua and Lions trade out to say Chargers, for Herbert. What the heck do we do? Chase Young has to be the pick but then there goes the offensive line help.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 24, 2020 10:39:19 GMT -5
If Tua slips to 4, the value of the pick escalates far past the value chart points. It has happened time and time again. If Tua is there (or whoever they value), and Miami and LA wants him, a bidding war ensues and someone will pay via draft capital way more than the equal value on the chart. I think that this is a reach to claim.. They will always go by the chart and maybe add a slight advantage to the team that has the pick.. It literally happens almost every draft there is a big trade up for a QB. Example: Jets moving up 3 spots, 6 to 3, for three 2nd rounders. Jets receive 3rd pick (2200 points) for Darnold Colts receive 6th pick (1600 points) 37th pick (530 points) 49th pick (410 points) and 34th pick (560 points). So a total of 3100 points. According to the chart, a value over pay.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 24, 2020 10:45:38 GMT -5
While selling some sports collectibles on eBay...before they went buy it now, many years ago...all you needed was two people interested in one unique item, and that item would torch...sniping would sometimes bring in a third person...never underestimate the WAR value a QB has....and if two teams are loving some Love, or Herbert, ANYTHING is possible. Burrow Tua Young ? We then need the Dolphins and Chargers to want a QB they believe can be a franchise. Personally, I don't see either Love or Herbert as worthy of move ups, but who knows...stranger things have happened, and the WAR stat suggests QB's should be taken risks for...far too valuable of a position if you hit on one. And every year, teams do indeed trade up the most for the QB....not a secret. We need an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick badly this year...those first 6 picks then, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4 ....should set this team going forward www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-is-pff-war-and-why-it-shows-russell-wilson-is-the-mvpChicago traded what they did up a spot for Trubisky...... Anything can happen Even an 2extra 2and plus the fab 4 OT is a steal in this draft Dont get greedy
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Post by ratbastich on Mar 24, 2020 10:47:56 GMT -5
In an unlikely situation that Redskins go Tua and Lions trade out to say Chargers, for Herbert. What the heck do we do? Chase Young has to be the pick but then there goes the offensive line help. What is interesting about this area of the draft is that Simmons has drawn a lot of attention and you wonder if the Redskins might not consider him. I know it is probably odd to take Simmons over Young, but these are the Skins owned by Snyder.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 11:13:45 GMT -5
I think that this is a reach to claim.. They will always go by the chart and maybe add a slight advantage to the team that has the pick.. It literally happens almost every draft there is a big trade up for a QB. Example: Jets moving up 3 spots, 6 to 3, for three 2nd rounders. Jets receive 3rd pick (2200 points) for Darnold Colts receive 6th pick (1600 points) 37th pick (530 points) 49th pick (410 points) and 34th pick (560 points). So a total of 3100 points. According to the chart, a value over pay. Thanks I'm still working so I couldn't look something like this up.. Much appreciation for your effort!
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Post by TEM on Mar 24, 2020 11:16:40 GMT -5
I think that this is a reach to claim.. They will always go by the chart and maybe add a slight advantage to the team that has the pick.. It literally happens almost every draft there is a big trade up for a QB. Example: Jets moving up 3 spots, 6 to 3, for three 2nd rounders. Jets receive 3rd pick (2200 points) for Darnold Colts receive 6th pick (1600 points) 37th pick (530 points) 49th pick (410 points) and 34th pick (560 points). So a total of 3100 points. According to the chart, a value over pay. Here is the discrepancy with that chart. The value drops 400 points from the 1st to the 2nd ……. to the 4th and than 100 point between the 4 and 5th? Going by 1st round hall of famers 14 #1 pick , 9 with #2 , 9 with #3 , 9 with #4 7 with 5 and 12 with 6. Than it becomes random. 1 here, 5 here , 3...…... So how is it the points on the chart fall off as rapidly as they do with in the first 4 picks? ( ridiculous IMO) When the hall of fame numbers for the first 6 pick are consistent ( within 5 player of each other in 83 drafts). If anything it should be the opposite. It should drop 50 to 100 points at first and progressively increase. Just my opinion base on this observation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 11:20:05 GMT -5
The value drops 400 points from the 1st to the 2nd ……. to the 4th and than 100 point between the 4 and 5th? Going by 1st round hall of famers 14 #1 pick , 9 with #2 , 9 with #3 , 9 with #4 7 with 5 and 12 with 6. Than it becomes random. 1 here, 5 here , 3...…... So how is it the points on the chart fall off as rapidly as they do with in the first 4 picks? ( ridiculous IMO) When the hall of fame numbers for the first 6 pick are consistent ( within 5 player of each other in 83 drafts). If anything it should be the opposite. It should drop 50 to 100 points at first and progressively increase. Just my opinion base on this observation. Why are you using only HoFers as your qualifier? I would use something like games started are a perimeter for this..
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 24, 2020 11:21:08 GMT -5
In an unlikely situation that Redskins go Tua and Lions trade out to say Chargers, for Herbert. What the heck do we do? Chase Young has to be the pick but then there goes the offensive line help. We would have to hope an OT drops into the 20s and then trade up. Or - Ezra Cleveland is shooting up mocks and may be worth our 2nd.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Mar 24, 2020 11:31:01 GMT -5
Im all in for Chase Young or Simmons at #4. If neither is in play then im waiting for that phine to ring in the war room. Definitely taking extra picks for a move down but stay in the top 8. I would select a OT at that point. After that trade, I would use one of my picks hopefully just use a third and contact Washington for a trade for Trent Williams. Oline almost complete with good depth. Now draft focused on Defense and look for a Wr. Maybe pick up a Center as well.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 24, 2020 11:32:15 GMT -5
Im all in for Chase Young or Simmons at #4. If neither is in play then im waiting for that phine to ring in the war room. Definitely taking extra picks for a move down but stay in the top 8. I would select a OT at that point. After that trade, I would use one of my picks hopefully just use a third and contact Washington for a trade for Trent Williams. Oline almost complete with good depth. Now draft focused on Defense and look for a Wr. Maybe pick up a Center as well. The Redskins are not trading Trent Williams to us, nor do we have the cap space to give him the new deal that he wants.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 24, 2020 11:35:27 GMT -5
It literally happens almost every draft there is a big trade up for a QB. Example: Jets moving up 3 spots, 6 to 3, for three 2nd rounders. Jets receive 3rd pick (2200 points) for Darnold Colts receive 6th pick (1600 points) 37th pick (530 points) 49th pick (410 points) and 34th pick (560 points). So a total of 3100 points. According to the chart, a value over pay. Here is the discrepancy with that chart. The value drops 400 points from the 1st to the 2nd ……. to the 4th and than 100 point between the 4 and 5th? Going by 1st round hall of famers 14 #1 pick , 9 with #2 , 9 with #3 , 9 with #4 7 with 5 and 12 with 6. Than it becomes random. 1 here, 5 here , 3...…... So how is it the points on the chart fall off as rapidly as they do with in the first 4 picks? ( ridiculous IMO) When the hall of fame numbers for the first 6 pick are consistent ( within 5 player of each other in 83 drafts). If anything it should be the opposite. It should drop 50 to 100 points at first and progressively increase. Just my opinion base on this observation. Because HOF players are a random measure? Maybe it should be valued differently, but not based off how many HOFers came from each slot. 1st - 3200 2nd - 2700 3rd - 2300 4th - 1950 5th - 1700 6th - 1500 7th - 1400 8th - 1300 9th - 1200 10th - 1100 11th - 1050 ect
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Post by TEM on Mar 24, 2020 11:50:37 GMT -5
The value drops 400 points from the 1st to the 2nd ……. to the 4th and than 100 point between the 4 and 5th? Going by 1st round hall of famers 14 #1 pick , 9 with #2 , 9 with #3 , 9 with #4 7 with 5 and 12 with 6. Than it becomes random. 1 here, 5 here , 3...…... So how is it the points on the chart fall off as rapidly as they do with in the first 4 picks? ( ridiculous IMO) When the hall of fame numbers for the first 6 pick are consistent ( within 5 player of each other in 83 drafts). If anything it should be the opposite. It should drop 50 to 100 points at first and progressively increase. Just my opinion base on this observation. Why are you using only HoFers as your qualifier? I would use something like games started are a perimeter for this.. I agree with that also. The hall is a good indicator to start with . To drop 400 points from 1 to 2 and 1200 points between 1 and 4 is incoherent. The fall off in talent is not as great between 1 and 4 as it is between 4 and 31. The chart is suggesting it is. Completely bogus. IMO
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Post by TEM on Mar 24, 2020 11:51:53 GMT -5
Here is the discrepancy with that chart. The value drops 400 points from the 1st to the 2nd ……. to the 4th and than 100 point between the 4 and 5th? Going by 1st round hall of famers 14 #1 pick , 9 with #2 , 9 with #3 , 9 with #4 7 with 5 and 12 with 6. Than it becomes random. 1 here, 5 here , 3...…... So how is it the points on the chart fall off as rapidly as they do with in the first 4 picks? ( ridiculous IMO) When the hall of fame numbers for the first 6 pick are consistent ( within 5 player of each other in 83 drafts). If anything it should be the opposite. It should drop 50 to 100 points at first and progressively increase. Just my opinion base on this observation. Because HOF players are a random measure? Maybe it should be valued differently, but not based off how many HOFers came from each slot. 1st - 3200 2nd - 2700 3rd - 2300 4th - 1950 5th - 1700 6th - 1500 7th - 1400 8th - 1300 9th - 1200 10th - 1100 11th - 1050 ect They are to an extent . As I said it becomes highly random after the 6th pick.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 12:17:24 GMT -5
Why are you using only HoFers as your qualifier? I would use something like games started are a perimeter for this.. I agree with that also. The hall is a good indicator to start with . To drop 400 points from 1 to 2 and 1200 points between 1 and 4 is incoherent. The fall off in talent is not as great between 1 and 4 as it is between 4 and 31. The chart is suggesting it is. Completely bogus. IMO That's a fair opinion..
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Post by thetruth on Mar 24, 2020 12:54:16 GMT -5
Just take Thomas and be happy. Does anyone else not see issues in his pass pro footwork? I think this flaw will really set him back against NFL level pass rushers I think he's a great prospect but I dont like this hole in this game. J. Wills is who I would go with, personally. Highest floor of all the OT's as well
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