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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2020 17:31:26 GMT -5
I do believe we need to be drafting a RT1 who can move to LT next year. Forgive me
You're far too wrong to forgive... Nate Solder The nonsense 11 sacks 9 hits 37 hurries 57 pressures 5 penalties
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2020 18:43:32 GMT -5
You're far too wrong to forgive... You are boring to me. Go find someone else to bother.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2020 20:23:57 GMT -5
You're far too wrong to forgive... You are boring to me. Go find someone else to bother. What's your view on the 2nd day offensive tackles? Anybody you fancy?
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Post by giants38 on Mar 25, 2020 22:09:24 GMT -5
I know it can happen with any drafted player but I have seen so many OTs taken high in the draft and then bust in the pros, its a gamble but I think we have a better no-bust chance with player like Simmons... This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 25, 2020 22:45:49 GMT -5
I know it can happen with any drafted player but I have seen so many OTs taken high in the draft and then bust in the pros, its a gamble but I think we have a better no-bust chance with player like Simmons... This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) I'm curious about the first round OL stats, particularly in OT success rates. OL success at 83% in the first round means little if most of them were drafted to be OT and end up as OG. I'd love to see the percent drafted in the first round that were high OT prospects and succeeded at OT in the NFL. My bet is under 30%
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 26, 2020 8:23:41 GMT -5
This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) I'm curious about the first round OL stats, particularly in OT success rates. OL success at 83% in the first round means little if most of them were drafted to be OT and end up as OG. I'd love to see the percent drafted in the first round that were high OT prospects and succeeded at OT in the NFL. My bet is under 30% Those stats he is presenting are a pick funny for the reason you just said. "Success" in this case is defined in that study as someone that starts most of their games. So if you drafted an OT that sucked and moved him to OG that is considered a success. Also a player like Ereck Flowers who started here for years is considered a success.
Now I do think there is some validity to the study, but it should not ever be taken as gospel. I also think coaching plays a major role. The funny thing is according to those stats if we are looking to fill the OL and LB position then our best bet is to go LB in round 1 and OL in round two. Gives us a much better chance to land starters at both positions rather than reversing the order (not that our FO will base their pick on those stats).
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 26, 2020 9:57:04 GMT -5
I'm curious about the first round OL stats, particularly in OT success rates. OL success at 83% in the first round means little if most of them were drafted to be OT and end up as OG. I'd love to see the percent drafted in the first round that were high OT prospects and succeeded at OT in the NFL. My bet is under 30% Those stats he is presenting are a pick funny for the reason you just said. "Success" in this case is defined in that study as someone that starts most of their games. So if you drafted an OT that sucked and moved him to OG that is considered a success. Also a player like Ereck Flowers who started here for years is considered a success.
Now I do think there is some validity to the study, but it should not ever be taken as gospel. I also think coaching plays a major role. The funny thing is according to those stats if we are looking to fill the OL and LB position then our best bet is to go LB in round 1 and OL in round two. Gives us a much better chance to land starters at both positions rather than reversing the order (not that our FO will base their pick on those stats).
Yup. Those stats would say Flowers was a success, which says a lot about how statistics can be made to say anything you want them to. Any Giants fan here think he was a success?
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Post by snyder55 on Mar 27, 2020 9:00:36 GMT -5
This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) I'm curious about the first round OL stats, particularly in OT success rates. OL success at 83% in the first round means little if most of them were drafted to be OT and end up as OG. I'd love to see the percent drafted in the first round that were high OT prospects and succeeded at OT in the NFL. My bet is under 30% good point. I've seen a whole lot of OTs drafted high and turn out to be a bust, it can happen at any position but just because these get rated high is no guarantee of success...
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Post by PennState1 on Mar 27, 2020 12:35:47 GMT -5
We are no better off at Center. Anyone remember how many times our #1 weapon got hit in the backfield literally as he was taking the handoff? That’s on the Center. Yep Playing to the strength of the draft early round 1 falls in line with a top OT Day 2 the strength of the draft should be C and WR... Willing to reach for Cushinburry because of the huge gap between picks on day 2 so we are guaranteed a day 1 starter in round 2.. I know how desperate Giant fans are for sacks and defensive improvement. I’m right there as well. I strongly believe we are still a season or two away from really competing so I want them to take the best OT AND the best CENTER in this draft if possible no matter the cost. At that point, given they pick the right guys, our Oline is finally fixed and will be for years to come. They can backfill for depth going forward with day two future picks. Draft a WR this year, due to the depth of talent and watch this offense roll! It will help your young QB, Barkley can shine and next year focus fully on D.
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Post by PennState1 on Mar 27, 2020 12:42:29 GMT -5
You are boring to me. Go find someone else to bother. What's your view on the 2nd day offensive tackles? Anybody you fancy? Great if you don’t need a starter this year
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Post by PennState1 on Mar 27, 2020 12:52:01 GMT -5
I know it can happen with any drafted player but I have seen so many OTs taken high in the draft and then bust in the pros, its a gamble but I think we have a better no-bust chance with player like Simmons... This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) This is REALLY interesting IF THE DATA is correct and depending on the definition of “success” but there are a few things to keep in mind. 2nd round OL often include starting Guards and Centers with a high degree of success, so I’m not surprised to see only a 13% drop in success from 1 to 2 in the overall OL category. What would be really interesting is if the data was available specifically for OT vs OL. My guess is the % drop off from round 1 to round 2 would be more dramatic, but that’s just a guess on my part. Going a step further, it would be REALLY interesting if you could get data on first year starting LTs. I bet the drop off there would be huge. Again, just a guess on my part.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 27, 2020 13:31:55 GMT -5
Without the context around what "consistent starter" means, those stats are useless. Also, there are 5 OL positions available to consistently start at and a player could be shuffled among them as necessary. If a QB, RB, WR cannot consistently start then they have nowhere to go but the bench.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 27, 2020 15:39:33 GMT -5
I know it can happen with any drafted player but I have seen so many OTs taken high in the draft and then bust in the pros, its a gamble but I think we have a better no-bust chance with player like Simmons... This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) Thanks, these are very useful and telling stats. The most amazing ones relate to WR. Such a low percentage in the first round and not much lower in the second round.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 27, 2020 15:49:10 GMT -5
This is the success rate of players drafted round becoming consistent starters: 1st Round – OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%) 2nd Round – OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%) 3rd Round – OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%) Thanks, these are very useful and telling stats. The most amazing ones relate to WR. Such a low percentage in the first round and not much lower in the second round. The issue with WRs early is they more than any position group are dependent on other factors How many top.WRs end up in a black hole with no QB and O line? Then you also see a lot of these guys hurt early by injuries and never the same.. And also now with so many good young ones coming out of college which has literally become basketball on grass you are finding more dynamic guys later. With that said ...if you have (or feel you have )a franchise QB(I think Jones is(and you have a promising O line(sure as hell not us ),take one early and you will see a stud instantly
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 27, 2020 16:09:35 GMT -5
The issue with WRs early is they more than any position group are dependent on other factors How many top.WRs end up in a black hole with no QB and O line? Then you also see a lot of these guys hurt early by injuries and never the same.. And also now with so many good young ones coming out of college which has literally become basketball on grass you are finding more dynamic guys later. With that said ...if you have (or feel you have )a franchise QB(I think Jones is(and you have a promising O line(sure as hell not us ),take one early and you will see a stud instantly Also with WRs, and I don't have the stats to back this up, it seems like you find them from all over college football including very small schools and JR colleges which might slip from the first round due to small school status.
That is a good article and in there they rank the best "WR U". I won't give it away. But it also provides some charts about schools producing top WR talent. Since 2000 a school like Marshall has produce as much WR talent as Syracuse or Penn State. Since 2014 Southern Methodist is just behind Notre Dame is WR talent produced. It's crazy that you can find some great WR talent at very small schools.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 14, 2020 9:50:57 GMT -5
I go with IrishMike on this one. I understand the feelingings on the OT but if Simmons is there we grab him and go OL in round two .The only other scenario I can see is something DG has never ever done and that is trade back for extra picks and all of this is dependant on if Chase Young falls to us (he won't) . TCHOF is a liar!
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Post by TEM on Apr 14, 2020 9:59:58 GMT -5
I think you are all wrong.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 14, 2020 10:04:50 GMT -5
Yeah he is and not very smart either. Why don't you correct me and tell me who you think the Giants will pick at #4? I ask this knowing that you will probably respond with some childish response … go back and look at my posts … blah, blah, blah … but hoping that you will man up. Here … I think that the pick will be Tristan Wirfs. See? Not so hard ….
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 10:24:56 GMT -5
I think you are all wrong. Who are you predicting? Too lazy to go look at the mock thread.
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Post by TEM on Apr 14, 2020 10:44:25 GMT -5
I think you are all wrong. Who are you predicting? Too lazy to go look at the mock thread. I am still complying my Data . I have an inclination on the first 3 rounds. It is still incomplete at the same time insightful . I will know by Friday.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 14, 2020 11:33:41 GMT -5
Why don't you correct me and tell me who you think the Giants will pick at #4? I ask this knowing that you will probably respond with some childish response … go back and look at my posts … blah, blah, blah … but hoping that you will man up. Here … I think that the pick will be Tristan Wirfs. See? Not so hard …. Evidently it is for you. According to you I have stated it 50 times already but you can't seem to remember who it is. You might want to go see a Doctor about that. As predicted ….
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 14, 2020 12:17:45 GMT -5
...........lol as expected wrong again. If nothing else you're consistent. Do you ever get tired of playing the fool?
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 15:29:17 GMT -5
Who are you predicting? Too lazy to go look at the mock thread. I am still complying my Data . I have an inclination on the first 3 rounds. It is still incomplete at the same time insightful . I will know by Friday. So how do you know everyone is wrong if you don't even have your answer yet?
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Post by TEM on Apr 14, 2020 15:32:46 GMT -5
I am still complying my Data . I have an inclination on the first 3 rounds. It is still incomplete at the same time insightful . I will know by Friday. So how do you know everyone is wrong if you don't even have your answer yet? Because I am 80% positive that what I am seeing is not inline with what conventional wisdom is dictating.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 14, 2020 15:36:21 GMT -5
So how do you know everyone is wrong if you don't even have your answer yet? Because I am 80% positive that what I am seeing is not inline with what conventional wisdom is dictating. Out with it. What are you seeing for round 1? I want to laugh at you....I mean analyze your prediction.
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Post by TEM on Apr 14, 2020 15:42:06 GMT -5
Because I am 80% positive that what I am seeing is not inline with what conventional wisdom is dictating. Out with it. What are you seeing for round 1? I want to laugh at you....I mean analyze your prediction.
Yeah that ain't happening until all my calculations are complete.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 14, 2020 17:51:02 GMT -5
Do you ever get tired of playing the fool? You tell me, you seem to be the profesional at it. lol … you are literally Potsie Webber
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 15, 2020 4:38:36 GMT -5
You tell me, you seem to be the profesional at it. lol … you are literally Potsie Webber Wasn't Ralph Malph the red head?
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