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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 26, 2020 7:56:08 GMT -5
Feels like the 2018 QB class... All was well for the 4 top guys coming out then they all got picked apart by analysts and fans. (Still all 4 went top 10 and the one that didnt is having the best career so far). What is the worth of a player? What if the Dolphins are taking Thomas at 5, is he worth the #4? Comparably speaking, looking back at all the #4 picks in history, is he not expected to be as good? Will he make our team better at OT position and will it impact our win totals? Are there comparable players to be available for our 2nd round pick or lower? Im still saying Thomas is worth the #4, but if we have a chance to drop back some and get him, Im all for it. Bottom line is, the OT spots must be fixed for DJ to have any chance of success. I think that the point is that you don’t take an OT in the top 5 unless you are getting a Joe Thomas, Tony Bosselli, etc. I’m in favor of taking an OT but really, I can see both points of view The problem with that is, how do you know those 4 arent a Joe Thomas or Tony Bosseli? And by the way, how the hell is Bosseli not in the HOF? If Wirfs is the next Quentin Nelson at G, is it worth it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 8:44:33 GMT -5
I think that the point is that you don’t take an OT in the top 5 unless you are getting a Joe Thomas, Tony Bosselli, etc. I’m in favor of taking an OT but really, I can see both points of view The problem with that is, how do you know those 4 arent a Joe Thomas or Tony Bosseli? And by the way, how the hell is Bosseli not in the HOF? If Wirfs is the next Quentin Nelson at G, is it worth it? Well I think we have our two guards for the foreseeable future. We need a tackle and center
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 26, 2020 10:58:09 GMT -5
Just saw that Jumbo Elliot said on Twitter that he doesn’t think any of the OT’s in this year’s draft is worth the #4 pick Feels like the 2018 QB class... Ridiculously over rated?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 26, 2020 11:04:45 GMT -5
Feels like the 2018 QB class... Ridiculously over rated? Could be
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 26, 2020 11:23:26 GMT -5
Feels like the 2018 QB class... Ridiculously over rated? Let's not be too hasty...I strongly believe that if Josh Rosen ever wins a starting spot, he is Canton bound. He very well may be the only first round QB pick to be unseated by a new first round pick two years in a row!
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Post by roundabout on Mar 26, 2020 11:44:34 GMT -5
Feels like the 2018 QB class... All was well for the 4 top guys coming out then they all got picked apart by analysts and fans. (Still all 4 went top 10 and the one that didnt is having the best career so far). What is the worth of a player? What if the Dolphins are taking Thomas at 5, is he worth the #4? Comparably speaking, looking back at all the #4 picks in history, is he not expected to be as good? Will he make our team better at OT position and will it impact our win totals? Are there comparable players to be available for our 2nd round pick or lower? Im still saying Thomas is worth the #4, but if we have a chance to drop back some and get him, Im all for it. Bottom line is, the OT spots must be fixed for DJ to have any chance of success. I think that the point is that you don’t take an OT in the top 5 unless you are getting a Joe Thomas, Tony Bosselli, etc. I’m in favor of taking an OT but really, I can see both points of view I'm still hoping for a trade partner.The Raiders 12th and 19th and maybe a 3rd would be a good return.Do you think that's too far back to get one of the top 4 tackles? I can't see us passing on a tackle with our first pick..Of course things have to fall just right
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 26, 2020 12:24:35 GMT -5
I think that the point is that you don’t take an OT in the top 5 unless you are getting a Joe Thomas, Tony Bosselli, etc. I’m in favor of taking an OT but really, I can see both points of view I'm still hoping for a trade partner.The Raiders 12th and 19th and maybe a 3rd would be a good return.Do you think that's too far back to get one of the top 4 tackles? I can't see us passing on a tackle with our first pick..Of course things have to fall just right I feel like the way things go with our drafts, the last of the 4OT’s would be selected at 11 if we moved back to 12....
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 26, 2020 13:05:20 GMT -5
And had these following players available at Pick 4, no trade backs. What is your draft order? Thomas. Wirfs. Wills. Becton. Jeudy. Lamb. Simmons. Okudah. Mine is : 1. Thomas - Best, only true LT 2. Lamb - Most impact on current WR core 3. Wirfs - Grinder, grit, athletic 4. Jeudy - Too talented to take a RT over him 5. Wills - Good RT prospect 6. Okudah - Rather have best CB crew than OLB 7. Simmons - Good college player, many ??? 8. Becton - Too much development needed at 4 Thomas was always a top 4 pick for me so nothing changes.... He is there and no trade back I'm running to the podium... However the gap narrowed between the top 3 with someone new Thomas Wirfs Wills Okudah(if we used our 3rd pic either with the trade up or staying put and taking Reisner he would be in serious discussion for this pick...because of recourses allocated he is a bad allocation of recourses) Lamb(Odell meets Hopkins...alas a luxury pick and bad allocation of recourses with how deep this class is as opposed to finally getting a good OT) Jeudy (same thing as Lamb) Becton. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,if the team takes him at 4 we just have to trust the process...I think he will be very good but needs the most work Simmons-too risky for number 4 overall
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Post by cocktailkerry on Mar 26, 2020 17:49:45 GMT -5
Mine would be:
Simmons - As a long time Giants fan who grew up in the 80s when the LBs were the cornerstone of the defense, I think it is a travesty that the organization has devalued the position so much. I want to see the team invest resources here and get some playmakers.
Okudah - 1A with Simmons. He is a technician and an athlete. He has the smarts and the character to go along with being able to play. He is a culture builder and potentially a future captain. If not for all the resources already put into the secondary recently I would probably put him first.
Wirfs - Great feet, Athletic and enough size. Plus Iowa churns out some good lineman. I think he has the highest ceiling and can play on the left side.
Wills - Has a nasty streak, is a road grader in the run game and is a good pass protector. Not sure he will be able to play LT. I think he will be a Pro Bowler on the right.
Thomas - A true left tackle because he has played there. I think he has the highest floor and might be the most ready day 1. He struggled some against some of the better D lines.
Becton - I see him as a bit of a project. Has some good traits but I worry about his size being a hindrance. Heavy guys usually dont get lighter. I wonder how he will do against speed.
Jeudy - Would be high on my list if not for other needs. I think he is the best WR in this draft. Lamb - I see him as a mid first round talent. Will be a solid player for some team. I hope the Giants dont draft him absent a trade down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 6:03:57 GMT -5
I think that the point is that you don’t take an OT in the top 5 unless you are getting a Joe Thomas, Tony Bosselli, etc. I’m in favor of taking an OT but really, I can see both points of view The problem with that is, how do you know those 4 arent a Joe Thomas or Tony Bosseli? And by the way, how the hell is Bosseli not in the HOF? If Wirfs is the next Quentin Nelson at G, is it worth it? Speaking of...Quenton Nelson will be getting a huge second contract, and this board will be split over signing Barkley to that second one...both horrible 2 overall picks, but Nelson > Barkley pick wise all draft day long. I don't see Wirfs as a Nelson, but if he became one...hell yeah worth it.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 27, 2020 6:09:12 GMT -5
The problem with that is, how do you know those 4 arent a Joe Thomas or Tony Bosseli? And by the way, how the hell is Bosseli not in the HOF? If Wirfs is the next Quentin Nelson at G, is it worth it? Speaking of...Quenton Nelson will be getting a huge second contract, and this board will be split over signing Barkley to that second one...both horrible 2 overall picks, but Nelson > Barkley pick wise all draft day long. I don't see Wirfs as a Nelson, but if he became one...hell yeah worth it. Nelson was picked 6th.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 6:48:30 GMT -5
Speaking of...Quenton Nelson will be getting a huge second contract, and this board will be split over signing Barkley to that second one...both horrible 2 overall picks, but Nelson > Barkley pick wise all draft day long. I don't see Wirfs as a Nelson, but if he became one...hell yeah worth it. Nelson was picked 6th. Yes, but we picked at 2
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 7:09:51 GMT -5
Feels like the 2018 QB class... Ridiculously over rated? Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 27, 2020 8:59:01 GMT -5
Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course. I just want to make sure I understand this post: we would have been better off taking Josh Rosen than Barkley.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 27, 2020 13:02:33 GMT -5
Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course. Absolutely they all should've been, in laboratory football. Real football is a different game entirely.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 27, 2020 13:03:30 GMT -5
Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course. I just want to make sure I understand this post: we would have been better off taking Josh Rosen than Barkley. Theoretically I believe.
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 27, 2020 13:12:29 GMT -5
Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course. Absolutely they all should've been, in laboratory football. Real football is a different game entirely.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 16:05:23 GMT -5
Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course. Absolutely they all should've been, in laboratory football. Real football is a different game entirely. Eli vs real...quite the subjective subject around here
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 16:20:28 GMT -5
Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson Ah yes, the rainy pro day with tank for Sammy, the turnover prone fumbling stat machine, in a session where he threw it lights out, and created a possible Giants now picking him, and if not....at least created a massive want for him and a trade back situation made in scientific heaven. Then we had the best arm I've ever seen, a QB I went to watch play, yes...in Wyoming... in the winter, after a snow storm, as I was visiting an old NY friend in Fort Collins Colorado and a certain poster was going literally ape shat on a stat of completion percentage, 20 pages long, tons of threads...all with the backing of a SINGLE subjective stat of no QB ever making the NFL with that low of a college completion %...had to suppress my liking of the canon arm for fear of my life... Baker Mayfield, my QB1 from the beginning of the college season, where I suffered all the Johnny Football comparisons, the too short, and the revealing they know nada, weak arm arguments. Yes, the short dad bodied QB with a quick gun and accuracy not seen since Marino...then the preppy Rosen, whom a lot of posters had as their QB1...whom was a snob, and reports said as such, but those with him as the new Eli replacement would say look at that quick smooth release and spiral, without looking at his pencil neck and lack of a shoulder...being good at tennis was the easy pass for this beach boy of country club mentality. Then we had Lamar Jackson, some now sing the I had him...I knew all along...those who watch no college ball, no tape, no subjective stats except those cherry picked and fed through the NFL and click bait sites, suddenly NFL experts...we'll see how long that thin RB lasts with that gimmick... The odd thing with each and every one of these "overrated" QB's, and all their warts and wow's..each and EVERY one should have been taken before Barkley. Or the trade back a certainty. IMHO of course. I just want to make sure I understand this post: we would have been better off taking Josh Rosen than Barkley. 100%...not even debatable. Well, I'm sure you all will. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...the mantra of the after the fact sports fan. Going into the draft, all 5 of those QB's should have been taken OVER BARKLEY. Well, unless we had Jones....then a trade back was still in order ...or the DE. BTW, I was ready for Jackson as your example, as his pre draft grade was 2nd round, where a running back with top talents should be taken...but since he has had success, you've chosen the failure Rosen...because as we all know....easier to defend in hindsight the failures. If no QB intrigued the Giants, due to the Eli can still play mix up, a trade back was in order....lot's of other running backs that year Value wise, and many here knowing it was time to think about an Eli replacement...yeah, not even a close call. A QB should have been taken over a running back. IMHO of course, well, me and the boys down at the lab.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 27, 2020 17:14:22 GMT -5
Absolutely they all should've been, in laboratory football. Real football is a different game entirely. Eli vs real...quite the subjective subject around here In fairness to the media and its flock, every single one of those third year QBs has a tremendous opportunity to be a fourth year QB next year.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 27, 2020 17:27:15 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand this post: we would have been better off taking Josh Rosen than Barkley. 100%...not even debatable. Well, I'm sure you all will. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...the mantra of the after the fact sports fan. Going into the draft, all 5 of those QB's should have been taken OVER BARKLEY. Well, unless we had Jones....then a trade back was still in order ...or the DE. BTW, I was ready for Jackson as your example, as his pre draft grade was 2nd round, where a running back with top talents should be taken...but since he has had success, you've chosen the failure Rosen...because as we all know....easier to defend in hindsight the failures. If no QB intrigued the Giants, due to the Eli can still play mix up, a trade back was in order....lot's of other running backs that year Value wise, and many here knowing it was time to think about an Eli replacement...yeah, not even a close call. A QB should have been taken over a running back. IMHO of course, well, me and the boys down at the lab. No...I'll let that one stand all on it's own.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 27, 2020 17:32:53 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand this post: we would have been better off taking Josh Rosen than Barkley. 100%...not even debatable. Well, I'm sure you all will. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...the mantra of the after the fact sports fan. Going into the draft, all 5 of those QB's should have been taken OVER BARKLEY. Well, unless we had Jones....then a trade back was still in order ...or the DE. BTW, I was ready for Jackson as your example, as his pre draft grade was 2nd round, where a running back with top talents should be taken...but since he has had success, you've chosen the failure Rosen...because as we all know....easier to defend in hindsight the failures. If no QB intrigued the Giants, due to the Eli can still play mix up, a trade back was in order....lot's of other running backs that year Value wise, and many here knowing it was time to think about an Eli replacement...yeah, not even a close call. A QB should have been taken over a running back. IMHO of course, well, me and the boys down at the lab. Wow ... goodbye credibility!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 17:38:17 GMT -5
100%...not even debatable. Well, I'm sure you all will. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...the mantra of the after the fact sports fan. Going into the draft, all 5 of those QB's should have been taken OVER BARKLEY. Well, unless we had Jones....then a trade back was still in order ...or the DE. BTW, I was ready for Jackson as your example, as his pre draft grade was 2nd round, where a running back with top talents should be taken...but since he has had success, you've chosen the failure Rosen...because as we all know....easier to defend in hindsight the failures. If no QB intrigued the Giants, due to the Eli can still play mix up, a trade back was in order....lot's of other running backs that year Value wise, and many here knowing it was time to think about an Eli replacement...yeah, not even a close call. A QB should have been taken over a running back. IMHO of course, well, me and the boys down at the lab. No...I'll let that one stand all on it's own. Better argument if you went lower graded Jackson over Rosen, you then had some laboratory results for your woulda, some stats for that coulda and actual last years results for the shoulda.
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Post by Delicreep on Mar 27, 2020 17:52:46 GMT -5
No...I'll let that one stand all on it's own. Better argument if you went lower graded Jackson over Rosen, you then had some laboratory results for your woulda, some stats for that coulda and actual last years results for the shoulda. It was a simple question and you gave an answer...you think that if the Giants had Rosen as their QB they would be better off. You had the data to support that answer, so I have nothing to argue...it's a rock solid fact.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 18:06:44 GMT -5
Eli vs real...quite the subjective subject around here In fairness to the media and its flock, every single one of those third year QBs has a tremendous opportunity to be a fourth year QB next year. It's not a hard argument I am presenting, and many a real actual GM's and scouts would agree with me, and they did...at the time. In retrospect, each and every draft has over achievers and under...it's easy to suggest as most fans do, we should have taken player A over player B, after a few years. Hell, we grade GM's on these moves...we then suddenly knew all along and are better GM's than the guys getting paid the big dollars. In that year, each top QB had a higher positional value vs any running back, including our thunder thighed poster boy. If you believe, as I do, running backs are a product of the system..the offensive line, and how coaching creates space with that blocking (usually getting the box emptied with certain formations) and add in the argument Eli was nearing the end, woulda coulda shoulda says he indeed was....and the fact each of those QB's had a positional value of such a vast amount that teams trade huge pick hauls to move up a few places (as we are hoping one does with a QB with us THIS very year) to even take a chance at one, and the deep talent of sameness of running backs at the NFL level in general, this was an easy decision. If you felt Eli was still slinging it, a debate run into the ground...then you should have still traded back. But there is no way not a single one of those now evaluated PRE draft QB's should have been passed over for a running back, no matter how good. Sure, we can bring up a Rosen now...and if the Giants had a crystal ball, I am certain that they woulda coulda shoulda traded back, but this is certainly not a PRE draft oddity I am talking about...it was debated to death at the time. At the time, each and every QB should have been taken over the super luxury pick of a RB...yes, even Rosen, despite that one as the first fail of the 4/5. I can dig deeper into the lab, ask many actual GM's, ex GM's...they are on record as saying the exact same thing as I am...but, I guess the Rosen failure has the Monday morning guys suddenly hopping mad. Rosen > Barkly Yeah, it was said many times in the draft section at the time...and was indeed the correct move...at the time. After Mayfield...I was a Josh Allen fan, but would have been happy with Darnold...hated Jackson and Rosen. Odd, we're as to how this topic started out...suggesting how we're in same situation with the OT's as we were with QB's...but truth be told, QB is king of value...and it's really not even close. Running backs are the end of the chain on value (not including KP)..and the lab suggests the same, not even close. If this was the year of Barkley and we had no Barkley or any top RB, and we have our DJ...LT still has a higher value than RB....not close to the QB, but much higher than the RB...question for the woulda coulda shoulda mob...if Barkley, as we knew him PRE draft was available with these 4/5 tackles, who then are you taking at 4? Barkley or the big 4 OT's. Barkley or Simmons?...oh that's a good one. But Barkley or a QB? NOT EVEN CLOSE back at that draft. We all love our running backs...they score the TD's, and carry the ball. The "science" of the brain is in play.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 18:13:09 GMT -5
100%...not even debatable. Well, I'm sure you all will. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...the mantra of the after the fact sports fan. Going into the draft, all 5 of those QB's should have been taken OVER BARKLEY. Well, unless we had Jones....then a trade back was still in order ...or the DE. BTW, I was ready for Jackson as your example, as his pre draft grade was 2nd round, where a running back with top talents should be taken...but since he has had success, you've chosen the failure Rosen...because as we all know....easier to defend in hindsight the failures. If no QB intrigued the Giants, due to the Eli can still play mix up, a trade back was in order....lot's of other running backs that year Value wise, and many here knowing it was time to think about an Eli replacement...yeah, not even a close call. A QB should have been taken over a running back. IMHO of course, well, me and the boys down at the lab. Wow ... goodbye credibility! Oh lord, the pressure now on my mock draft contest is crushing...need to win this thing to again have credibility Were you even part of the draft section that year? How many posters were suggesting a QB over Barkley...and the debate was which one. I know quite a few that were all over Rosen. The media, the experts, the scouts...all said QB > Barkley ...or trade the pick I can say it over and over in equanimity ....PRE draft, a QB over a running back...and any of the FIVE were a better pick than a RB...even Barkley.
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Mar 27, 2020 18:41:11 GMT -5
Simmons
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 18:45:02 GMT -5
Mine would be: Simmons - As a long time Giants fan who grew up in the 80s when the LBs were the cornerstone of the defense, I think it is a travesty that the organization has devalued the position so much. I want to see the team invest resources here and get some playmakers. Okudah - 1A with Simmons. He is a technician and an athlete. He has the smarts and the character to go along with being able to play. He is a culture builder and potentially a future captain. If not for all the resources already put into the secondary recently I would probably put him first. Wirfs - Great feet, Athletic and enough size. Plus Iowa churns out some good lineman. I think he has the highest ceiling and can play on the left side. Wills - Has a nasty streak, is a road grader in the run game and is a good pass protector. Not sure he will be able to play LT. I think he will be a Pro Bowler on the right. Thomas - A true left tackle because he has played there. I think he has the highest floor and might be the most ready day 1. He struggled some against some of the better D lines.Becton - I see him as a bit of a project. Has some good traits but I worry about his size being a hindrance. Heavy guys usually dont get lighter. I wonder how he will do against speed. Jeudy - Would be high on my list if not for other needs. I think he is the best WR in this draft. Lamb - I see him as a mid first round talent. Will be a solid player for some team. I hope the Giants dont draft him absent a trade down. Nice fair insightful post I do however want to see some backing on this bolded part as I have watched EVERY bulldog game last year...struggled? This is considered his worse tape ... Delpit with a beauty blitz sack at 5:37...guys glides out there.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 27, 2020 19:02:30 GMT -5
If Wirfs is the next Quentin Nelson at G, is it worth it? I would say not on this team. We have too many holes to fill a position that is a strength. If we didn't have the two OGs we have I would not have an issue with a Nelson at 4 (or 2). Great player > need in the top 10.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 27, 2020 19:06:39 GMT -5
If Wirfs is the next Quentin Nelson at G, is it worth it? I would say not on this team. We have too many holes to fill a position that is a strength. If we didn't have the two OGs we have I would not have an issue with a Nelson at 4 (or 2). Great player > need in the top 10. What if he is as they say, and can play a very good OT too. Start him at RT in 2020 and go from there. IS Zeitler going to be 100%? He had a shoulder injury right? Did it require surgery?
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