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Post by Roswell on Apr 2, 2020 9:17:32 GMT -5
The only answer I can think of that goes against what you are pointing out is the coronavirus. Thats pretty much my answer for everything now. Maybe teams are weary of his past injuries and they cant get a doc to check him out right now and dont want to give him that $20m/year without a doctors approval. Just a guess... BTW, I dont want him for that much and dont think he would be worth it. I have heard rumblings from podcasts I trust (Albert Breer for one) that Clowney's effort is inconsistent and he's not a great locker room guy. Take that for what it's worth. It's telling, though, that the two teams that know him the best declined to pay him anywhere near the money he wants …. Yes. And the fact that he played opposite JJ Watt (when healthy) and still didn’t put up great numbers should be a red flag to some teams.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 2, 2020 9:21:31 GMT -5
I think the Giants have to keep their options open on the off chance that Young falls to them. To me that means not making a move on a guy like Golden (or an overpriced player like Clowney) until after the draft.
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Post by TEM on Apr 2, 2020 9:28:13 GMT -5
I think the Giants have to keep their options open on the off chance that Young falls to them. To me that means not making a move on a guy like Golden (or an overpriced player like Clowney) until after the draft. That is not the way to draft. Best practice has always been is fill blatant holes before the draft. We did so far with signing a ILB, OT, Corner, and a Long Snapper. By doing that need becomes less of a factor on the board. It becomes who is the BPA that gives that most impact on day one.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 2, 2020 9:30:05 GMT -5
I think the Giants have to keep their options open on the off chance that Young falls to them. To me that means not making a move on a guy like Golden (or an overpriced player like Clowney) until after the draft. That is not the way to draft. Best practice has always been is fill blatant holes before the draft. We did so far with signing a ILB, OT, Corner, and a Long Snapper. By doing that need becomes less of a factor on the board. It becomes who is the BPA that gives that most impact on day one. In theory, you are absolutely right. But we still have plenty of needs. I've said it 1000 times but "BPA" is a myth. We will draft the "BPA that fills a need", .......especially early on.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 9:32:14 GMT -5
I think the Giants have to keep their options open on the off chance that Young falls to them. To me that means not making a move on a guy like Golden (or an overpriced player like Clowney) until after the draft. I agree to an extent. When it comes to pass rushers you can never have too many. I think we draft Simmons and I think Simmons can rush the passer and I still think we need more help with the pass rush. We are relying on some unproven young guys and a guy in Fackrell that had 1 good year. I have hopes but we could use more.
For the right price though.
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Post by TEM on Apr 2, 2020 9:35:30 GMT -5
That is not the way to draft. Best practice has always been is fill blatant holes before the draft. We did so far with signing a ILB, OT, Corner, and a Long Snapper. By doing that need becomes less of a factor on the board. It becomes who is the BPA that gives that most impact on day one. In theory, you are absolutely right. But we still have plenty of needs. I've said it 1000 times but "BPA" is a myth. We will draft the "BPA that fills a need", .......especially early on.
I do not think it is a myth. I think it is presumptive. If BPA was universal. Anyone should be able to mock the entire draft. 1>2>3>4>5...…………………….>245 Some live in a theoretical world that BPA is static. The history of the draft has proven that to be false.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 9:36:00 GMT -5
That is not the way to draft. Best practice has always been is fill blatant holes before the draft. We did so far with signing a ILB, OT, Corner, and a Long Snapper. By doing that need becomes less of a factor on the board. It becomes who is the BPA that gives that most impact on day one. In theory, you are absolutely right. But we still have plenty of needs. I've said it 1000 times but "BPA" is a myth. We will draft the "BPA that fills a need", .......especially early on.
BPA isn't a myth, it's just not a blind method where you rate every player 1-1000 and take the next man on the list. It works exactly like you said. Take the BPA that has a chance to start. If an OG, QB or RB are the best player on our board round 1 we won't take him because he won't be starting.
This year, luckily, our needs and the talent lines up pretty well though. We will very likely end up with an OT, LB or Edge guy as the top graded player and those are all positions of need. There is a chance Okudah ends up the top rated guy, but I think we would go with someone else as long as they are close.
BPA is actually a tier system, not a 1-1000 ranking.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 9:37:00 GMT -5
In theory, you are absolutely right. But we still have plenty of needs. I've said it 1000 times but "BPA" is a myth. We will draft the "BPA that fills a need", .......especially early on.
I do not think it is a myth. I think it is presumptive. If BPA was universal. Anyone should be able to mock the entire draft. 1>2>3>4>5...…………………….>245 Some live in a theoretical world that BPA is static. The history of the draft has proven that to be false. 100%
You, me and Morehead all agree on what BPA is. Others...not so much.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 2, 2020 9:53:18 GMT -5
In theory, you are absolutely right. But we still have plenty of needs. I've said it 1000 times but "BPA" is a myth. We will draft the "BPA that fills a need", .......especially early on.
BPA isn't a myth, it's just not a blind method where you rate every player 1-1000 and take the next man on the list. It works exactly like you said. Take the BPA that has a chance to start. If an OG, QB or RB are the best player on our board round 1 we won't take him because he won't be starting.
This year, luckily, our needs and the talent lines up pretty well though. We will very likely end up with an OT, LB or Edge guy as the top graded player and those are all positions of need. There is a chance Okudah ends up the top rated guy, but I think we would go with someone else as long as they are close.
BPA is actually a tier system, not a 1-1000 ranking.
Barkley was most definitely the best player that wasn't a need, taken over crucial needs. Jones was a player we needed taken over better players. Good luck figuring out what Dave will do. They'd just better have a plan if they don't come out of the draft with a LT.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 2, 2020 10:00:17 GMT -5
BPA isn't a myth, it's just not a blind method where you rate every player 1-1000 and take the next man on the list. It works exactly like you said. Take the BPA that has a chance to start. If an OG, QB or RB are the best player on our board round 1 we won't take him because he won't be starting.
This year, luckily, our needs and the talent lines up pretty well though. We will very likely end up with an OT, LB or Edge guy as the top graded player and those are all positions of need. There is a chance Okudah ends up the top rated guy, but I think we would go with someone else as long as they are close.
BPA is actually a tier system, not a 1-1000 ranking.
Barkley was most definitely the best player that wasn't a need, taken over crucial needs. Jones was a player we needed taken over better players. Good luck figuring out what Dave will do. Hard to say with him. He has indicated that he is aware that he needs to fortify the OL and stated in his last public statement that Daniel can't complete passes "on his back". He knows Jones is his legacy and you would think that he wants to give him every chance to succeed. This stuff would indicate that we draft an OT. On the other hand, it was clear from his last public statements that he put a lot of blame on the defense for last season, and has always talked about his "BPA" and "gold jacket" philosophies of drafting. Does that indicate that that he will draft Simmons? Who the hell knows with this guy ….
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 10:08:57 GMT -5
Barkley was most definitely the best player that wasn't a need, taken over crucial needs. Jones was a player we needed taken over better players. Good luck figuring out what Dave will do. They'd just better have a plan if they don't come out of the draft with a LT. I predicted we would take both Barkley and Jones. Barkley was taken because he was rated so much higher than anyone else. RB was also a need. Maybe not as much a need as a QB or OT but none of those guys were rated close to what he was so they picked him. RB absolutely was a need though. Jones was taken because everyone on earth agrees that if the QB you love is there you take him no matter what.
They have a plan if they don't draft a LT, he is being paid lots of money and his name is Solder. They have a plan if they don't get a RT too, his name is Cam Fleming. Not sure the plan if no C is taken, my guess is there will be a competition between Gates, Pulley and either draft pick or undrafted guys.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 10:12:28 GMT -5
Hard to say with him. He has indicated that he is aware that he needs to fortify the OL and stated in his last public statement that Daniel can't complete passes "on his back". He knows Jones is his legacy and you would think that he wants to give him every chance to succeed. This stuff would indicate that we draft an OT. On the other hand, it was clear from his last public statements that he put a lot of blame on the defense for last season, and has always talked about his "BPA" and "gold jacket" philosophies of drafting. Does that indicate that that he will draft Simmons? Who the hell knows with this guy …. Dave has been trying to fix the OL since he got here, that won't change this year. Judging by the past, despite what some people seem to think, you can actually find OTs and good OL outside of round 1. Dave is one GM that has found several starters to include 1 Pro Bowler and 1 All Pro for the OL after the first round. He will not reach for an OT in the first. If he takes one it'll be because the guy is legit and deserves to be taken at #4 (gold jacket type).
He must be confident he can find someone with his past success and the depth of this draft at OL.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 10:57:30 GMT -5
They will not be adding anymore FAs if they are going to stick to the plan they told us. Just because you think Getty is lying about this doesn't allow you to change their plan and tell everyone they are wrong.. LMAO. Do you even know what Gettleman said? You keep quoting it as if you know but you actually have no clue.
"$20 million must be set aside for either current contract extensions or an attractive player suddenly becoming a free agent."
That is what DG said. So if he uses money out of that $20m to sign a player he would be doing exactly what he said. Now you can think DG wants to have $20m sitting in the bank for the entire season but anyone with a little reasoning ability will realize that's not going to happen. $20m is nice to have in case a player pops up that you suddenly want. Signing Golden, or Clowney, or some other player is the exact reason he wanted that money.
Welcome to the last time I will respond to you.. It has become blatantly obvious that you don't like someone who has a different opinion so good luck out here and at other forums. There are plenty of fans out here that do agree with my comments so I guess they are also clueless in your opinion.. GO GIANTS!!
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Post by GameTime on Apr 2, 2020 11:16:30 GMT -5
a rebuilding team to hold 20mil in the bank indefinitely is not reality at all.
it will be spent
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 11:43:11 GMT -5
a rebuilding team to hold 20mil in the bank indefinitely is not reality at all. it will be spent It's less then the dead money they were dealing with last season..
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 2, 2020 11:58:17 GMT -5
I do not think it is a myth. I think it is presumptive. If BPA was universal. Anyone should be able to mock the entire draft. 1>2>3>4>5...…………………….>245 Some live in a theoretical world that BPA is static. The history of the draft has proven that to be false. 100%
You, me and Morehead all agree on what BPA is. Others...not so much.
So you guys are the 3 stooges. Does that make you Curly or Shemp?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 12:06:40 GMT -5
Barkley was most definitely the best player that wasn't a need, taken over crucial needs. Jones was a player we needed taken over better players. Good luck figuring out what Dave will do. They'd just better have a plan if they don't come out of the draft with a LT. I predicted we would take both Barkley and Jones.
Nostramikus? You can end the Simmons vs OT debate with one single post, knowing all future events...yet, you allow the board to endlessly debate linebacker vs offensive tackle?...why...why? When will you be expecting your next vision?
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Post by McCherry on Apr 2, 2020 12:35:05 GMT -5
Barkley was most definitely the best player that wasn't a need, taken over crucial needs. Jones was a player we needed taken over better players. Good luck figuring out what Dave will do. They'd just better have a plan if they don't come out of the draft with a LT. I predicted we would take both Barkley and Jones. Barkley was taken because he was rated so much higher than anyone else. RB was also a need. Maybe not as much a need as a QB or OT but none of those guys were rated close to what he was so they picked him. RB absolutely was a need though. Jones was taken because everyone on earth agrees that if the QB you love is there you take him no matter what.
They have a plan if they don't draft a LT, he is being paid lots of money and his name is Solder. They have a plan if they don't get a RT too, his name is Cam Fleming. Not sure the plan if no C is taken, my guess is there will be a competition between Gates, Pulley and either draft pick or undrafted guys.
You would think if they go Simmons they would still want to come out of the draft with a starting caliber OL. LT in the second or maybe a C. I get you though, Solder makes an awful lot of money for a team desperate for a LT.
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Post by TEM on Apr 2, 2020 12:45:29 GMT -5
100%
You, me and Morehead all agree on what BPA is. Others...not so much.
So you guys are the 3 stooges. Does that make you Curly or Shemp? Our group reply to you.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 2, 2020 13:14:52 GMT -5
I predicted we would take both Barkley and Jones. Barkley was taken because he was rated so much higher than anyone else. RB was also a need. Maybe not as much a need as a QB or OT but none of those guys were rated close to what he was so they picked him. RB absolutely was a need though. Jones was taken because everyone on earth agrees that if the QB you love is there you take him no matter what.
They have a plan if they don't draft a LT, he is being paid lots of money and his name is Solder. They have a plan if they don't get a RT too, his name is Cam Fleming. Not sure the plan if no C is taken, my guess is there will be a competition between Gates, Pulley and either draft pick or undrafted guys.
You would think if they go Simmons they would still want to come out of the draft with a starting caliber OL. LT in the second or maybe a C. I get you though, Solder makes an awful lot of money for a team desperate for a LT. Which does not justify taking an athletic high risk boom or bust luxury pick at a non premium position over a premium pick at a major need whether those blinded by OMG AN ATHLETIC COVER LINEBACKER want to take their heads out of the sand or not A player at a premium position to help protect and develop the most important position in sports .. That is BPA/need/value topper if this all meets up
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Post by imgrate on Apr 2, 2020 13:23:36 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing that he's the same player JPP has been and if I'm not mistaken his contract is in the 10 million range which many fans thought was too much due to injuries.. I see him as more of a Vernon type player. Yeah, people forget how good JPP was, had 16 sack season, and is still chugging out 10 sack season. He won games for us, 2011 Dallas comes to mind.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 14:17:15 GMT -5
I predicted we would take both Barkley and Jones. Barkley was taken because he was rated so much higher than anyone else. RB was also a need. Maybe not as much a need as a QB or OT but none of those guys were rated close to what he was so they picked him. RB absolutely was a need though. Jones was taken because everyone on earth agrees that if the QB you love is there you take him no matter what.
They have a plan if they don't draft a LT, he is being paid lots of money and his name is Solder. They have a plan if they don't get a RT too, his name is Cam Fleming. Not sure the plan if no C is taken, my guess is there will be a competition between Gates, Pulley and either draft pick or undrafted guys.
You would think if they go Simmons they would still want to come out of the draft with a starting caliber OL. LT in the second or maybe a C. I get you though, Solder makes an awful lot of money for a team desperate for a LT. 100%. I think OL is Dave's top priority honestly. I expect 2-3 draft picks to go toward the OL and a handful of undrafted guys as well. I just think when it comes to a #4 pick he is going to pick the guy he thinks has HOF greatness. That might be an OT, I just would not be surprised at all if it isn't.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 14:20:25 GMT -5
Welcome to the last time I will respond to you.. It has become blatantly obvious that you don't like someone who has a different opinion so good luck out here and at other forums. There are plenty of fans out here that do agree with my comments so I guess they are also clueless in your opinion.. GO GIANTS!! I actually come here because people disagree with me. It would be very boring if we all shared the same opinion. What I do not like is when posters make up things that I "said or think". No I don't Dave is a liar if he does not have $20m in the bank on opening day because that is not what he said. If you want to ignore me because I pointed out what he actually said and how it goes against what you are saying that is fine. I will lose zero sleep.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 14:22:32 GMT -5
Which does not justify taking an athletic high risk boom or bust luxury pick at a non premium position over a premium pick at a major need whether those blinded by OMG AN ATHLETIC COVER LINEBACKER want to take their heads out of the sand or not A player at a premium position to help protect and develop the most important position in sports .. That is BPA/need/value topper if this all meets up If you think that is what Simmons is then your the one with their head in the sand. Not saying you should like him or want him on this team but at least be honest in your assessment of the guy.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 2, 2020 15:01:17 GMT -5
Lol
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 2, 2020 16:17:45 GMT -5
I admit to being in the Simmons club but as I have stated before no matter what we do at #4 it will have an immediate impact on this club . I will be fine with a LT or any position other than a QB,RB or WR at #4. There are good and legitimate arguments on both sides. When is the draft again???? This is what most people say and it is completely logical. Other people act like if they don't get the player they want the world will end. LB and OL were our biggest weakness' last year, makes sense to try and fix both.
Draft is a couple weeks away. April 23
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Post by imgrate on Apr 2, 2020 17:23:12 GMT -5
I admit to being in the Simmons club but as I have stated before no matter what we do at #4 it will have an immediate impact on this club . I will be fine with a LT or any position other than a QB,RB or WR at #4. There are good and legitimate arguments on both sides. When is the draft again???? This is what most people say and it is completely logical. Other people act like if they don't get the player they want the world will end. LB and OL were our biggest weakness' last year, makes sense to try and fix both.
Draft is a couple weeks away. April 23
The world won't end, but it just makes it that much harder to build a good team. Having good players on rookie deals at expensive positions is the biggest help to building a team in the NFL.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 26, 2020 6:26:28 GMT -5
Now that we missed out on pass rushers in the draft, we should really go hard after Golden.
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