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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 24, 2020 16:30:18 GMT -5
how to go about competing this year and be in games
The Cowboys ans Eagles added firepower at the expense of their defense...
We are in no mans land right now...
Thomas improves our offense bigtime but we are still an average unit on offense with the defense maybe in the 20th rank...
Do we just say **** it,use this year to finish the offenae around Jones if possible..a lot of players available to do just this and use cap space and the entire draft to fix the defense
Or just shotgun approach the team and have a middling offense and less than middling defense that basically dooms us not to be able to stop good offenses and be done early. and maybe beat bad teams
Unpopular opinion (to the old school fans )
**** it
Complete the line,get a few more weapons...
At least we have the O line and firepower to compete against teams and build up Jones..and especially give him the opportunity to win a shoot out against Dallas or Philly which will go a long way in him getting more confident..
Throw some pieces on defense if it's a BPA opportunity early...
Then cut Tate and Soldier next year and use that money on holes on defense and the entire draft..
We can still get a good defensive piece at 36 (Baun would be perfect)
Trade up a bit to get our C...keep our 4th ..thats for a.wewpon
Get more weapons day 3 with dynamic speed...
This and special teams dominance will keep us competitive and win some close games ..and even blow w few teams out..
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Post by GameTime on Apr 24, 2020 16:33:39 GMT -5
how to go about competing this year and be in games The Cowboys ans Eagles added firepower at the expense of their defense... We are in no mans land right now... Thomas improves our offense bigtime but we are still an average unit on offense with the defense maybe in the 20th rank... Do we just say **** it,use this year to finish the offenae around Jones if possible..a lot of players available to do just this and use cap space and the entire draft to fix the defense Or just shotgun approach the team and have a middling offense and less than middling defense that basically dooms us not to be able to stop good offenses and be done early. and maybe beat bad teams Unpopular opinion (to the old school fans ) **** it Complete the line,get a few more weapons... At least we have the O line and firepower to compete against teams and build up Jones..and especially give him the opportunity to win a shoot out against Dallas or Philly which will go a long way in him getting more confident.. Throw some pieces on defense if it's a BPA opportunity early... Then cut Tate and Soldier next year and use that money on holes on defense and the entire draft.. We can still get a good defensive piece at 36 (Baun would be perfect) Trade up a bit to get our C...keep our 4th ..thats for a.wewpon Get more weapons day 3 with dynamic speed... This and special teams dominance will keep us competitive and win some close games ..and even blow w few teams out..its simple. Its simple....The Giants are not ready to challenge for the division. I do expect them to be much more competitive and for the young guys to takes steps forward. There's no dilema. They are rebuilding and have a whole new coaching staff and a rookie HC. They cant getting all done in this draft. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 24, 2020 16:42:22 GMT -5
how to go about competing this year and be in games The Cowboys ans Eagles added firepower at the expense of their defense... We are in no mans land right now... Thomas improves our offense bigtime but we are still an average unit on offense with the defense maybe in the 20th rank... Do we just say **** it,use this year to finish the offenae around Jones if possible..a lot of players available to do just this and use cap space and the entire draft to fix the defense Or just shotgun approach the team and have a middling offense and less than middling defense that basically dooms us not to be able to stop good offenses and be done early. and maybe beat bad teams Unpopular opinion (to the old school fans ) **** it Complete the line,get a few more weapons... At least we have the O line and firepower to compete against teams and build up Jones..and especially give him the opportunity to win a shoot out against Dallas or Philly which will go a long way in him getting more confident.. Throw some pieces on defense if it's a BPA opportunity early... Then cut Tate and Soldier next year and use that money on holes on defense and the entire draft.. We can still get a good defensive piece at 36 (Baun would be perfect) Trade up a bit to get our C...keep our 4th ..thats for a.wewpon Get more weapons day 3 with dynamic speed... This and special teams dominance will keep us competitive and win some close games ..and even blow w few teams out..its simple. Its simple....The Giants are not ready to challenge for the division. I do expect them to be much more competitive and for the young guys to takes steps forward. There's no dilema. They are rebuilding and have a whole new coaching staff and a rookie HC. They cant getting all done in this draft. Exactly Which is why I say complete the offense around Jones this year so.he has the best chance to fully develop quickly Honestly A playmaker outaide and a C we are almost there..witn a future OT and one of the dynamic slot/Swiss army playmakers that are return specialists late ... And we can still get a piece for the defense so its not totally neglected... We get to a 27 points a game offense we will be in every game..moreso then being around average and around slightly below average on defense this year.. |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 24, 2020 17:00:24 GMT -5
Its simple....The Giants are not ready to challenge for the division. I do expect them to be much more competitive and for the young guys to takes steps forward. There's no dilema. They are rebuilding and have a whole new coaching staff and a rookie HC. They cant getting all done in this draft. Exactly Which is why I say complete the offense around Jones this year so.he has the best chance to fully develop quickly Honestly A playmaker outaide and a C we are almost there..witn a future OT and one of the dynamic slot/Swiss army playmakers that are return specialists late ... And we can still get a piece for the defense so its not totally neglected... We get to a 27 points a game offense we will be in every game..moreso then being around average and around slightly below average on defense this year.. they need to get more than " piece" for the D tho. They can help both sides of the ball in this draft. C and an Edge before WR IMO in this draft. Not that WR is not a need because it is. |
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2020 17:05:57 GMT -5
how to go about competing this year and be in games The Cowboys ans Eagles added firepower at the expense of their defense... We are in no mans land right now... Thomas improves our offense bigtime but we are still an average unit on offense with the defense maybe in the 20th rank... Do we just say **** it,use this year to finish the offenae around Jones if possible..a lot of players available to do just this and use cap space and the entire draft to fix the defense Or just shotgun approach the team and have a middling offense and less than middling defense that basically dooms us not to be able to stop good offenses and be done early. and maybe beat bad teams Unpopular opinion (to the old school fans ) **** it Complete the line,get a few more weapons... At least we have the O line and firepower to compete against teams and build up Jones..and especially give him the opportunity to win a shoot out against Dallas or Philly which will go a long way in him getting more confident.. Throw some pieces on defense if it's a BPA opportunity early... Then cut Tate and Soldier next year and use that money on holes on defense and the entire draft.. We can still get a good defensive piece at 36 (Baun would be perfect) Trade up a bit to get our C...keep our 4th ..thats for a.wewpon Get more weapons day 3 with dynamic speed... This and special teams dominance will keep us competitive and win some close games ..and even blow w few teams out.. As long as our OL is solid, we'll compete. As you say, Dallas has no defense. Phili is one Wentz injury away from being irrelevant. Solidify the OL....we need another C. Time of possession suddenly is in our favor, which limits the exposure to our weak defense. Get another young, long term WR. We're not far off. |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 24, 2020 17:09:51 GMT -5
Not a dilemma. Take the best player they can tonight. If that's WR, C, Edge or LB or S then go for it. Then we go out there next year and compete. Not super impressed with the eagles. I like Reagor but he isn't anything we have not seen before. I think Dallas is putting together a very nice team but without their Center we will see.
Our O needs to get better than 18th in the league. That was with tons of injuries, worse (in theory) OL and a rookie QB. We should be better but not sure how much. Our D needs to drastically improve or it'll be very tough to compete with anyone. This starts tonight.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 24, 2020 17:10:35 GMT -5
The Cowboys have been "built to win now" for about 25 years. How has that been working out for them?
We need to take care of our own business.
Fretting on the competition leads nowhere useful and usually to the wrong conclusion.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 24, 2020 17:11:12 GMT -5
As long as our OL is solid, we'll compete. Not with a 30th ranked defense we won't. I don't mean this to say we must go D tonight because I think we need to take the best player but our D better not be 30th if we want to compete. |
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Post by McCherry on Apr 24, 2020 17:15:06 GMT -5
We have no idea what our offense will be until we see Jones' progression. His numbers project to 4k yds and 30 TD's and he never had Engram, Tate, Shepard on the field together. Barkley's health changes our offense exponentially. Offensively, we match up well in the division, it's our defense that always lets us down in those games.
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Post by TEM on Apr 24, 2020 17:15:26 GMT -5
Not a dilemma. Take the best player they can tonight. If that's WR, C, Edge or LB or S then go for it. Then we go out there next year and compete. Not super impressed with the eagles. I like Reagor but he isn't anything we have not seen before. I think Dallas is putting together a very nice team but without their Center we will see. Our O needs to get better than 18th in the league. That was with tons of injuries, worse (in theory) OL and a rookie QB. We should be better but not sure how much. Our D needs to drastically improve or it'll be very tough to compete with anyone. This starts tonight. We have to take the best player on the board. If we do not all it accomplishes is devaluation of the pick. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 24, 2020 17:17:17 GMT -5
Not a dilemma. Take the best player they can tonight. If that's WR, C, Edge or LB or S then go for it. Then we go out there next year and compete. Not super impressed with the eagles. I like Reagor but he isn't anything we have not seen before. I think Dallas is putting together a very nice team but without their Center we will see. Our O needs to get better than 18th in the league. That was with tons of injuries, worse (in theory) OL and a rookie QB. We should be better but not sure how much. Our D needs to drastically improve or it'll be very tough to compete with anyone. This starts tonight. We have to take the best player on the board. If we do not all it accomplishes is devaluation of the pick. Wish we had another 2nd ...  Baun and Hennessy... |
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Post by TEM on Apr 24, 2020 17:18:51 GMT -5
We have to take the best player on the board. If we do not all it accomplishes is devaluation of the pick. Wish we had another 2nd ... Baun and Hennessy... I would love to also. |
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2020 17:25:22 GMT -5
As long as our OL is solid, we'll compete. Not with a 30th ranked defense we won't. I don't mean this to say we must go D tonight because I think we need to take the best player but our D better not be 30th if we want to compete. You're not wrong.......but I kiiiiind of disagree. I've been preaching this for a decade, so I won't bore you with my stance in detail, but if we can sustain drives our defense will immediately improve. How much? I have no clue. They might be 20th, they might be 10th, but over the last however many years we've been losing the TOP battle. A better OL will help this. Also, to compete, teams need to score these days. We all agree a better OL will help here. While I'm in 1000000% agreement our defense needs to be addressed, I don't think our defense will have to play 30+ minutes per game going forward. That difference alone may help our defense compete. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 17:25:48 GMT -5
I honestly believe if we take a pass rusher in the second and center in the 3rd, we can BPA for the rest of the draft and be a better team this year. I think our defensive secondary is going to be much better this year. Round pegs in round holes.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 24, 2020 17:49:01 GMT -5
Not with a 30th ranked defense we won't. I don't mean this to say we must go D tonight because I think we need to take the best player but our D better not be 30th if we want to compete. You're not wrong.......but I kiiiiind of disagree. I've been preaching this for a decade, so I won't bore you with my stance in detail, but if we can sustain drives our defense will immediately improve. How much? I have no clue. They might be 20th, they might be 10th, but over the last however many years we've been losing the TOP battle. A better OL will help this. Also, to compete, teams need to score these days. We all agree a better OL will help here. While I'm in 1000000% agreement our defense needs to be addressed, I don't think our defense will have to play 30+ minutes per game going forward. That difference alone may help our defense compete. I say this all the time when people mention TOP and how we are losing. That has a lot to do with our defense as well. We gave up the 8th most 3rd down conversions. That is a horrible way to play defense lol.
Yes fix the OL, but it won't change that much for the defense in terms of TOP. Our average drive was 5.6 plays (26th). The #1 team in the league, the Ravens, average drive was 6.6 plays. So even if our O becomes the best in the league...we will run 1 extra play per drive.
The big thing with TOP is that teams with the lead have a higher TOP because they run out the clock, while losing teams run a hurry up O. Each play the Ravens ran took 30 seconds, each play the Giants ran took 26 seconds. So the best way to effect TOP is to have the lead, which again is on the O to score and the D to stop the score.
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Post by JoeyCush on Apr 24, 2020 17:53:27 GMT -5
Who needs that early 3rd when we have Leonard Williams
am i rite?
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Post by allnygin on Apr 24, 2020 17:57:53 GMT -5
I'd love to see them just address center I'm sick of EVERY offseason with the oline being a need. That shit has to stop, and I think it will. However, I think in this position they should just stay true to there board and pick best player available. They need help all across the board.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2020 18:05:29 GMT -5
Who needs that early 3rd when we have Leonard Williams am i rite? Your not getting that type of player in that spot he improved the D if they didn't have him they would have been drafting Brown at 4 to finish the DL up. It would be great to have that pick or an extra second. They have nine more picks gotta make the best out of them. |
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Post by JoeyCush on Apr 24, 2020 18:07:51 GMT -5
Who needs that early 3rd when we have Leonard Williams am i rite? Your not getting that type of player in that spot he improved the D if they didn't have him they would have been drafting Brown at 4 to finish the DL up. It would be great to have that pick or an extra second. They have nine more picks gotta make the best out of them. Cant say for certain if Brown would have been the pick over Thomas but having two 3rd round picks makes an easier package if you need to trade up. |
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2020 18:15:27 GMT -5
You're not wrong.......but I kiiiiind of disagree. I've been preaching this for a decade, so I won't bore you with my stance in detail, but if we can sustain drives our defense will immediately improve. How much? I have no clue. They might be 20th, they might be 10th, but over the last however many years we've been losing the TOP battle. A better OL will help this. Also, to compete, teams need to score these days. We all agree a better OL will help here. While I'm in 1000000% agreement our defense needs to be addressed, I don't think our defense will have to play 30+ minutes per game going forward. That difference alone may help our defense compete. I say this all the time when people mention TOP and how we are losing. That has a lot to do with our defense as well. We gave up the 8th most 3rd down conversions. That is a horrible way to play defense lol.
Yes fix the OL, but it won't change that much for the defense in terms of TOP. Our average drive was 5.6 plays (26th). The #1 team in the league, the Ravens, average drive was 6.6 plays. So even if our O becomes the best in the league...we will run 1 extra play per drive.
The big thing with TOP is that teams with the lead have a higher TOP because they run out the clock, while losing teams run a hurry up O. Each play the Ravens ran took 30 seconds, each play the Giants ran took 26 seconds. So the best way to effect TOP is to have the lead, which again is on the O to score and the D to stop the score.
Again, I can't say I disagree. I really can't. Every point is valid. I simply think having a better OL will make the entire team better. I can't say how much better, but I think Thomas is a huge step forward. I'm willing we will win more games than last year simply based on this pick. Who cares........let's go GMen! |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2020 18:16:44 GMT -5
Your not getting that type of player in that spot he improved the D if they didn't have him they would have been drafting Brown at 4 to finish the DL up. It would be great to have that pick or an extra second. They have nine more picks gotta make the best out of them. Cant say for certain if Brown would have been the pick over Thomas but having two 3rd round picks makes an easier package if you need to trade up. for sure maybe they trade down but thats the trade off one less thing to fix. |
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Eazy E
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Post by Eazy E on Apr 24, 2020 18:17:43 GMT -5
Build from one draft? We are in the 4th year of a so called rebuiild. Our team should be loaded, lol. What about the 12 players last year we drafted and so on. At some we have to nail some players. At some point GMs have to earn their paycheck. At some point great coaching is supposed to lead with what we have and compete. I gotta tell you, I really like Judge. I think the organization is going to turn the corner. I suspect he evaluated the roster and liked what he saw. I think it starts with getting something solid. So we went Oline, then finish it. Get the center. Get the WR to stretch the field. From the 4th and on Getty and Judge have earn their paycheck, we need some standout defenders. I hope we get lightning in a bottle. I hope they come through. Im tired of losing.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 24, 2020 18:18:27 GMT -5
Not with a 30th ranked defense we won't. I don't mean this to say we must go D tonight because I think we need to take the best player but our D better not be 30th if we want to compete. It's not "old school" to want a defense that can make a stop once in a while . Who is to say the FA moves that have been made we can't improve our Defense ? Add to that yeah there are still some good Defensive players available in the draft so go after them .Both sides of the ball can be addressed .Dallas and Washington still have a shit load of problems . I'm not saying we won't be better, I'm simply stating we have to be better if we want to compete. Is that even disputable? |
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Post by McCherry on Apr 24, 2020 18:25:55 GMT -5
You're not wrong.......but I kiiiiind of disagree. I've been preaching this for a decade, so I won't bore you with my stance in detail, but if we can sustain drives our defense will immediately improve. How much? I have no clue. They might be 20th, they might be 10th, but over the last however many years we've been losing the TOP battle. A better OL will help this. Also, to compete, teams need to score these days. We all agree a better OL will help here. While I'm in 1000000% agreement our defense needs to be addressed, I don't think our defense will have to play 30+ minutes per game going forward. That difference alone may help our defense compete. I say this all the time when people mention TOP and how we are losing. That has a lot to do with our defense as well. We gave up the 8th most 3rd down conversions. That is a horrible way to play defense lol.
Yes fix the OL, but it won't change that much for the defense in terms of TOP. Our average drive was 5.6 plays (26th). The #1 team in the league, the Ravens, average drive was 6.6 plays. So even if our O becomes the best in the league...we will run 1 extra play per drive.
The big thing with TOP is that teams with the lead have a higher TOP because they run out the clock, while losing teams run a hurry up O. Each play the Ravens ran took 30 seconds, each play the Giants ran took 26 seconds. So the best way to effect TOP is to have the lead, which again is on the O to score and the D to stop the score.
Interesting. No question your defense can perform better when it's playing downhill. The defense will be better this year even without Simmons or Young. The growth of young talent combined with more consistent offense. It's going to happen regardless how the rest of the draft plays out. |
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Post by lasion2 on Apr 24, 2020 18:27:42 GMT -5
I’ve come around to the big gamble. Bet the house Hennessy or Biadasz is there at 99 and go for the highest rated outside threat at 36.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 24, 2020 18:28:47 GMT -5
Interesting. No question your defense can perform better when it's playing downhill. The defense will be better this year even without Simmons or Young. The growth of young talent combined with more consistent offense. It's going to happen regardless how the rest of the draft plays out. I agree 100%. We have some LBs that can tackle at least unlike most of the LBs last year. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 24, 2020 18:54:08 GMT -5
I say this all the time when people mention TOP and how we are losing. That has a lot to do with our defense as well. We gave up the 8th most 3rd down conversions. That is a horrible way to play defense lol.
Yes fix the OL, but it won't change that much for the defense in terms of TOP. Our average drive was 5.6 plays (26th). The #1 team in the league, the Ravens, average drive was 6.6 plays. So even if our O becomes the best in the league...we will run 1 extra play per drive.
The big thing with TOP is that teams with the lead have a higher TOP because they run out the clock, while losing teams run a hurry up O. Each play the Ravens ran took 30 seconds, each play the Giants ran took 26 seconds. So the best way to effect TOP is to have the lead, which again is on the O to score and the D to stop the score.
Interesting. No question your defense can perform better when it's playing downhill. The defense will be better this year even without Simmons or Young. The growth of young talent combined with more consistent offense. It's going to happen regardless how the rest of the draft plays out. Playing with big leads also helps |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 24, 2020 20:25:32 GMT -5
how to go about competing this year and be in games The Cowboys ans Eagles added firepower at the expense of their defense... We are in no mans land right now... Thomas improves our offense bigtime but we are still an average unit on offense with the defense maybe in the 20th rank... Do we just say **** it,use this year to finish the offenae around Jones if possible..a lot of players available to do just this and use cap space and the entire draft to fix the defense Or just shotgun approach the team and have a middling offense and less than middling defense that basically dooms us not to be able to stop good offenses and be done early. and maybe beat bad teams Unpopular opinion (to the old school fans ) **** it Complete the line,get a few more weapons... At least we have the O line and firepower to compete against teams and build up Jones..and especially give him the opportunity to win a shoot out against Dallas or Philly which will go a long way in him getting more confident.. Throw some pieces on defense if it's a BPA opportunity early... Then cut Tate and Soldier next year and use that money on holes on defense and the entire draft.. We can still get a good defensive piece at 36 (Baun would be perfect) Trade up a bit to get our C...keep our 4th ..thats for a.wewpon Get more weapons day 3 with dynamic speed... This and special teams dominance will keep us competitive and win some close games ..and even blow w few teams out..its simple. Its simple....The Giants are not ready to challenge for the division. I do expect them to be much more competitive and for the young guys to takes steps forward. There's no dilema. They are rebuilding and have a whole new coaching staff and a rookie HC. They cant getting all done in this draft. We WILL challenge for the division this year. |
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Post by GameTime on Apr 24, 2020 20:40:32 GMT -5
Its simple....The Giants are not ready to challenge for the division. I do expect them to be much more competitive and for the young guys to takes steps forward. There's no dilema. They are rebuilding and have a whole new coaching staff and a rookie HC. They cant getting all done in this draft. We WILL challenge for the division this year. believe me I hope so but it would have to be a dramatic turn around. I have this crazy feeling that Judge will be a great HC someday too. I just see the next season being a little unhinged and lots new peeps getting their feet wet. |
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Post by Jomo on Apr 25, 2020 8:14:52 GMT -5
We WILL challenge for the division this year. believe me I hope so but it would have to be a dramatic turn around. I have this crazy feeling that Judge will be a great HC someday too. I just see the next season being a little unhinged and lots new peeps getting their feet wet. That all sounds like progress to me! Continuity is worthless when you have too many of the wrong players and the wrong coaching staff. |
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