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Post by DandyDon on May 12, 2020 13:15:41 GMT -5
I get the idea of avoiding an overwhelmed medical system. My point is that I haven't seen anyone who is shitting on the idea of beginning the re-opening process now (slowly) offer an alternative timeline or a different plan for reopening that makes sense. My sense is that a percentage of the population is simply not going to reopen when we reopen - call it what you will; fear, justifiable concern...whatever. Be interesting to see how that get's handled. This is already happening in GA. Restaurants are open and getting about 15-20% of the volume of normal times. They wont be able to sustain the business at those volumes. Businesses can open, but the vast majority of people are scared to go to them. We need greatly increased testing and contact tracing, which does not appear is going to happen.
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Post by Morehead State on May 12, 2020 13:56:02 GMT -5
My sense is that a percentage of the population is simply not going to reopen when we reopen - call it what you will; fear, justifiable concern...whatever. Be interesting to see how that get's handled. This is already happening in GA. Restaurants are open and getting about 15-20% of the volume of normal times. They wont be able to sustain the business at those volumes. Businesses can open, but the vast majority of people are scared to go to them. We need greatly increased testing and contact tracing, which does not appear is going to happen. The real question is how rational are those fears and how were they instilled.......
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 14:14:58 GMT -5
This is already happening in GA. Restaurants are open and getting about 15-20% of the volume of normal times. They wont be able to sustain the business at those volumes. Businesses can open, but the vast majority of people are scared to go to them. We need greatly increased testing and contact tracing, which does not appear is going to happen. The real question is how rational are those fears and how were they instilled....... ...says the man who points out that Montana social distances as a normal way of life.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 14:17:04 GMT -5
I guess you would know better than me since I assume you live in the area. I understand that many areas like NYC and LI are not close to any real opening up.
I think in the next two weeks most of NY with the exception of NYC will re-open. forward.ny.gov/regional-monitoring-dashboardI have to say, I was somewhat surprised how close Long Island is. Now if we could just continue isolating Long Islanders from the rest of the population, I think we would be all set.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 14:21:14 GMT -5
My sense is that a percentage of the population is simply not going to reopen when we reopen - call it what you will; fear, justifiable concern...whatever. Be interesting to see how that get's handled. This is already happening in GA. Restaurants are open and getting about 15-20% of the volume of normal times. They wont be able to sustain the business at those volumes. Businesses can open, but the vast majority of people are scared to go to them. We need greatly increased testing and contact tracing, which does not appear is going to happen. A county in Kansas, of all places, has asked businesses to track customers. I assume every 3rd customer would be Richard Hurts, or at least that's what I would say. Maybe Haywood Jubuzoff.
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Post by Morehead State on May 12, 2020 14:32:39 GMT -5
The real question is how rational are those fears and how were they instilled....... ...says the man who points out that Montana social distances as a normal way of life. I know....it's awesome.
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Post by Morehead State on May 12, 2020 14:33:27 GMT -5
This is already happening in GA. Restaurants are open and getting about 15-20% of the volume of normal times. They wont be able to sustain the business at those volumes. Businesses can open, but the vast majority of people are scared to go to them. We need greatly increased testing and contact tracing, which does not appear is going to happen. A county in Kansas, of all places, has asked businesses to track customers. I assume every 3rd customer would be Richard Hurts, or at least that's what I would say. Maybe Haywood Jubuzoff. Richard Hurts? That's the name of my urologist.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 14:49:52 GMT -5
...says the man who points out that Montana social distances as a normal way of life. I know....it's awesome.
My region of NY is much the same way.
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Post by Sarcasman on May 12, 2020 15:35:00 GMT -5
This is already happening in GA. Restaurants are open and getting about 15-20% of the volume of normal times. They wont be able to sustain the business at those volumes. Businesses can open, but the vast majority of people are scared to go to them. We need greatly increased testing and contact tracing, which does not appear is going to happen. A county in Kansas, of all places, has asked businesses to track customers. I assume every 3rd customer would be Richard Hurts, or at least that's what I would say. Maybe Haywood Jubuzoff. Our mailing list has like 47 Jim Nasiums.
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 15:47:45 GMT -5
Fauci's has a 0% prediction success rate . Not one thing he said would happen was not even remotely close to what actually happened. Yet he is still used as the subject matter expert. The always get it wrong individual that single handily dismantled the best economy in US history .
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Post by Sarcasman on May 12, 2020 15:53:45 GMT -5
Fauci's has a 0% prediction success rate . Not one thing he said would happen was not even remotely close to what actually happened. Yet he is still used as the subject matter expert. The always get it wrong individual that single handily dismantled the best economy in US history . What would have been the correct action?
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Post by TCHOF on May 12, 2020 16:04:08 GMT -5
Fauci's has a 0% prediction success rate . Not one thing he said would happen was not even remotely close to what actually happened. Yet he is still used as the subject matter expert. The always get it wrong individual that single handily dismantled the best economy in US history . He's got a worse percentage than mock drafters and weathermen....
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 16:04:38 GMT -5
Fauci's has a 0% prediction success rate . Not one thing he said would happen was not even remotely close to what actually happened. Yet he is still used as the subject matter expert. The always get it wrong individual that single handily dismantled the best economy in US history . What would have been the correct action? Sweden's policy introduced protocols that did not include taking a sledgehammer to their economy . Per population % covid numbers are almost exactly as are the USA's Not perfect but a happy medium between safety and economic stability. A balanced approach.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 17:15:11 GMT -5
What would have been the correct action? Sweden's policy introduced protocols that did not include taking a sledgehammer to their economy . Per population % covid numbers are almost exactly as are the USA's Not perfect but a happy medium between safety and economic stability. A balanced approach. Among Sweden's advantage was 1) catching the virus very early 2) wide spread and early testing, 3) strict identification and tracking systems - all 3 massive failures in the US, the last doesn't even really exist yet. Sweden also pays 100% of your pay from the very first day you are sick, removing the incentive to go to work sick. FUN FACT: the tax rate in Sweden is a mere 57.1%, which funds the universal healthcare they enjoy. And while I applaud their efforts and plan, I am unsure how what they did could in any way have been duplicated here in the US.
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 17:25:16 GMT -5
Sweden's policy introduced protocols that did not include taking a sledgehammer to their economy . Per population % covid numbers are almost exactly as are the USA's Not perfect but a happy medium between safety and economic stability. A balanced approach. Sweden is the size of California with the population of a 10 million. NYC iteself has over 8 million Not a good example at all what we should do in a country with 300 million people. With mitigtion there are over 80K deaths in less than three months, what did Fauci get wrong? He isnt the be all end all but what was so wrong? He also is part of a panel that the Pres listens to. His predictions were based on factors that changed every day. If the death rate stayed the same as it was earlier on there would be well over 100K deaths. A) He said in February no need to worry . We have it under control. Wrong B) We need 1 million ventilators. Wrong C) We need to send 2 hospital ships Wrong D) We need to set up the emergency Hospitals Wrong You own use of "if" is not science . It is a sublimation approach . Skip the liquid and go directly from solid to gas. "If" I don't drive on the road i may not get hit by a truck either. Should "IF " be a reason not to drive or shutdown an entire economy? He has been wrong on everything . His is the worst kind of wrong because his bad assumptions that are followed touch everyone. As far as Sweden it is % or population infected. Their restaurants are open with customers. Their stores are open with customers . If they are allowing people in close proximity of each other . Why is there per population % infected not higher than our stay at home orders.. Because they are using a common sense approach to allow interaction in a safe manner.
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Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 17:28:25 GMT -5
Sweden's policy introduced protocols that did not include taking a sledgehammer to their economy . Per population % covid numbers are almost exactly as are the USA's Not perfect but a happy medium between safety and economic stability. A balanced approach. Among Sweden's advantage was 1) catching the virus very early 2) wide spread and early testing, 3) strict identification and tracking systems - all 3 massive failures in the US, the last doesn't even really exist yet. Sweden also pays 100% of your pay from the very first day you are sick, removing the incentive to go to work sick. FUN FACT: the tax rate in Sweden is a mere 57.1%, which funds the universal healthcare they enjoy. And while I applaud their efforts and plan, I am unsure how what they did could in any way have been duplicated here in the US. they are also way more spread out. Sweden is the size of California with 10 million in the population. NYC alone has 8+ million. 'Lets do what Sweden did!!" Why cant the US be like Sweden!!" So many are saying this are many of the same peeps that dont agree with how Sweden runs its country in general. I find it amusing. Oh wait Sweden has universal health care?....
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Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 17:29:35 GMT -5
Sweden is the size of California with the population of a 10 million. NYC iteself has over 8 million Not a good example at all what we should do in a country with 300 million people. With mitigtion there are over 80K deaths in less than three months, what did Fauci get wrong? He isnt the be all end all but what was so wrong? He also is part of a panel that the Pres listens to. His predictions were based on factors that changed every day. If the death rate stayed the same as it was earlier on there would be well over 100K deaths. A) He said in February no need to worry . We have it under control. Wrong B) We need 1 million ventilators. Wrong C) We need to send 2 hospital ships Wrong D) We need to set up the emergency Hospitals Wrong You own use of "if" is not science . It is a sublimation approach . Skip the liquid and go directly from solid to gas. "If" I don't drive on the road i may not get hit by a truck either. Should "IF " be a reason not to drive or shutdown an entire economy? He has been wrong on everything . His is the worst kind of wrong because his bad assumptions that are followed touch everyone. As far as Sweden it is % or population infected. Their restaurants are open with customers. Their stores are open with customers . If they are allowing people in close proximity of each other . Why is there per population % infected not higher than our stay at home orders.. Because they are using a common sense approach to allow interaction in a safe manner. B, C, D would have all been true if we didnt mitigate. When did Fauci say it was under control in Feb? The USA has a lot less people with common sense then Sweden I guess. You see all the idiots out there? What's True During a Feb. 29, 2020, interview, Dr. Fauci said that at that time and under the circumstances pertaining to that date, Americans didn't need to change their behavior patterns. What's False However, Fauci did not say there was "nothing to worry about," and although he stated that Americans did not yet need to change their behaviors, he noted that what was then classified as the COVID-19 outbreak could require that to change.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 17:34:16 GMT -5
Among Sweden's advantage was 1) catching the virus very early 2) wide spread and early testing, 3) strict identification and tracking systems - all 3 massive failures in the US, the last doesn't even really exist yet. Sweden also pays 100% of your pay from the very first day you are sick, removing the incentive to go to work sick. FUN FACT: the tax rate in Sweden is a mere 57.1%, which funds the universal healthcare they enjoy. And while I applaud their efforts and plan, I am unsure how what they did could in any way have been duplicated here in the US. they are also way more spread out. Sweden is the size of California with 10 million in the population. NYC alone has 8+ million. 'Lets do what Sweden did!!" Why cant the US be like Sweden!!" So many are saying this are many of the same peeps that dont agree with how Sweden runs its country in general. I find it amusing. Oh wait Sweden has universal health care?.... They have excellent universal healthcare, paid for by one of the steepest income taxes around. But it's funny...the thing I find most remarkable, and something that would not fly in this country in the least, was that they had no issue complying with robust contact tracing done by their trusted government.
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 17:34:35 GMT -5
Sweden's policy introduced protocols that did not include taking a sledgehammer to their economy . Per population % covid numbers are almost exactly as are the USA's Not perfect but a happy medium between safety and economic stability. A balanced approach. Among Sweden's advantage was 1) catching the virus very early 2) wide spread and early testing, 3) strict identification and tracking systems - all 3 massive failures in the US, the last doesn't even really exist yet. Sweden also pays 100% of your pay from the very first day you are sick, removing the incentive to go to work sick. FUN FACT: the tax rate in Sweden is a mere 57.1%, which funds the universal healthcare they enjoy. And while I applaud their efforts and plan, I am unsure how what they did could in any way have been duplicated here in the US. Fauci is an MD. His course of action is not working . If it was. There would have been a steep drop off in new cases by now. There has been no significant decrease in new cases. In-fact it could probably be argued that the minimal decline in cases is due to herd immunity and not stay at home orders. Me personally I would not trust a Doctor that is continuing to treat an aliment i have that is not getting better with the same course of action.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 17:40:47 GMT -5
Among Sweden's advantage was 1) catching the virus very early 2) wide spread and early testing, 3) strict identification and tracking systems - all 3 massive failures in the US, the last doesn't even really exist yet. Sweden also pays 100% of your pay from the very first day you are sick, removing the incentive to go to work sick. FUN FACT: the tax rate in Sweden is a mere 57.1%, which funds the universal healthcare they enjoy. And while I applaud their efforts and plan, I am unsure how what they did could in any way have been duplicated here in the US. Fauci is an MD. His course of action is not working . If it was. There would have been a steep drop off in new cases by now. There has been no significant decrease in new cases. In-fact it could probably be argued that the minimal decline in cases is due to herd immunity and not stay at home orders. Me personally I would not trust a Doctor that is continuing to treat an aliment i have that is not getting better with the same course of action. I thought we were talking about the Swedish model? I wasn't slamming their model at all; I was pointing out that it's a very, very apples to oranges comparison.
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 17:46:06 GMT -5
A) He said in February no need to worry . We have it under control. Wrong B) We need 1 million ventilators. Wrong C) We need to send 2 hospital ships Wrong D) We need to set up the emergency Hospitals Wrong You own use of "if" is not science . It is a sublimation approach . Skip the liquid and go directly from solid to gas. "If" I don't drive on the road i may not get hit by a truck either. Should "IF " be a reason not to drive or shutdown an entire economy? He has been wrong on everything . His is the worst kind of wrong because his bad assumptions that are followed touch everyone. As far as Sweden it is % or population infected. Their restaurants are open with customers. Their stores are open with customers . If they are allowing people in close proximity of each other . Why is there per population % infected not higher than our stay at home orders.. Because they are using a common sense approach to allow interaction in a safe manner. B, C, D would have all been true if we didnt mitigate.
When did Fauci say it was under control in Feb? The USA has a lot less people with common sense then Sweden I guess. You see all the idiots out there? What's True During a Feb. 29, 2020, interview, Dr. Fauci said that at that time and under the circumstances pertaining to that date, Americans didn't need to change their behavior patterns. What's False However, Fauci did not say there was "nothing to worry about," and although he stated that Americans did not yet need to change their behaviors, he noted that what was then classified as the COVID-19 outbreak could require that to change. Bull S%%% If his prescribed action for the country was true 9 weeks. 63 days we should have see a fall of in new cases. Nothing he stated has been true. Eveything he has said has been false conjecture. During a Feb. 29, 2020, interview, Dr. Fauci said that at that time and under the circumstances pertaining to that date, Americans didn't need to change their behavior patterns.
Less than 5 days later we were in a S*** storm. If he was this all seeing expert as he claims to be . Why did he not see what was going to happen only a week in advance of what occurred. Now we are supposed to trust this guy on what he sees going forward. I am sorry not that stupid to drink the Kool-Aid
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Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 17:47:12 GMT -5
Among Sweden's advantage was 1) catching the virus very early 2) wide spread and early testing, 3) strict identification and tracking systems - all 3 massive failures in the US, the last doesn't even really exist yet. Sweden also pays 100% of your pay from the very first day you are sick, removing the incentive to go to work sick. FUN FACT: the tax rate in Sweden is a mere 57.1%, which funds the universal healthcare they enjoy. And while I applaud their efforts and plan, I am unsure how what they did could in any way have been duplicated here in the US. Fauci is an MD. His course of action is not working . If it was. There would have been a steep drop off in new cases by now. There has been no significant decrease in new cases. In-fact it could probably be argued that the minimal decline in cases is due to herd immunity and not stay at home orders. Me personally I would not trust a Doctor that is continuing to treat an aliment i have that is not getting better with the same course of action. he said with mitigation the number of cases would will rise for weeks. Also with more testing the case numbers will rise. The death rate has gone down the last week or so. Trusting a doctor with your individual illness is not even in the same argument as a pandemic situation. He is NOT the only medical person working on this for our country. He is the figured head but he is part of a big group. You know the "Corona Virus Task Force" lead by Pence.
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Post by GameTime on May 12, 2020 17:49:03 GMT -5
B, C, D would have all been true if we didnt mitigate.
When did Fauci say it was under control in Feb? The USA has a lot less people with common sense then Sweden I guess. You see all the idiots out there? What's True During a Feb. 29, 2020, interview, Dr. Fauci said that at that time and under the circumstances pertaining to that date, Americans didn't need to change their behavior patterns. What's False However, Fauci did not say there was "nothing to worry about," and although he stated that Americans did not yet need to change their behaviors, he noted that what was then classified as the COVID-19 outbreak could require that to change. Bull S%%% If his prescribed action for the country was true 9 weeks. 63 days we should have see a fall of in new cases. Nothing he stated has been true. Eveything he has said has been false conjecture. During a Feb. 29, 2020, interview, Dr. Fauci said that at that time and under the circumstances pertaining to that date, Americans didn't need to change their behavior patterns.
Less than 5 days later we were in a S*** storm. If he was this all seeing expert as he claims to be . Why did he not see what was going to happen only a week in advance of what occurred. Now we are supposed to trust this guy on what he sees going forward. I am sorry not that stupid to drink the Kool-Aid believe what you want. If we didn't mitigate there would be well over 100K dead. Trump didnt believe it even after Fauci said it will be a problem.
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 17:53:06 GMT -5
Fauci is an MD. His course of action is not working . If it was. There would have been a steep drop off in new cases by now. There has been no significant decrease in new cases. In-fact it could probably be argued that the minimal decline in cases is due to herd immunity and not stay at home orders. Me personally I would not trust a Doctor that is continuing to treat an aliment i have that is not getting better with the same course of action. I thought we were talking about the Swedish model? I wasn't slamming their model at all; I was pointing out that it's a very, very apples to oranges comparison. We are talking about Sweden How is it Apples to Oranges? Are you saying that exposure in a restaurant or a store, park, Beach , Hair salon , Place of work....... in Sweden should be different than the USA using the same protection protocols
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 17:59:10 GMT -5
Fauci is an MD. His course of action is not working . If it was. There would have been a steep drop off in new cases by now. There has been no significant decrease in new cases. In-fact it could probably be argued that the minimal decline in cases is due to herd immunity and not stay at home orders. Me personally I would not trust a Doctor that is continuing to treat an aliment i have that is not getting better with the same course of action. he said with mitigation the number of cases would will rise for weeks. Also with more testing the case numbers will rise. The death rate has gone down the last week or so. Trusting a doctor with your individual illness is not even in the same argument as a pandemic situation. He is NOT the only medical person working on this for our country. He is the figured head but he is part of a big group. You know the "Corona Virus Task Force" lead by Pence. I don't buy the BULL S***. We stayed at home as a means to halt the spread. If that is not working why are we still at home? They are doubling down on a policy that is only accomplish the systematic destruction of small business and the economy . What that salon owner in Texas did and what Musk is doing in California all business owners should follow.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 12, 2020 18:00:02 GMT -5
The people are defying orders to shut down as we speak. There going to come out people can't pay their mortgage, feed their kids, etc. You might stay and hold if it's just you but if your children are suffering you'll risk legalities. Hell you'll risk life and death situations for your children.
Most of America has never had to endure any sense of hardship nationwide. Never had to sacrifice like the WWII generation. People are scared to death to come out and their scared to death to stay at home. No work, no school, no medical visits, not being able to buy or get food for your family with nobody knowing any real solution world wide is very freighting and unnerving.
America is going to work and they'll defy any order in their way. That's why the states have to open besides being broke. Can't arrest the masses this is not like China.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 18:09:15 GMT -5
I thought we were talking about the Swedish model? I wasn't slamming their model at all; I was pointing out that it's a very, very apples to oranges comparison. We are talking about Sweden How is it Apples to Oranges? Are you saying that exposure in a restaurant or a store, park, Beach , Hair salon , Place of work....... in Sweden should be different than the USA using the same protection protocols You believe that we could have duplicated what they did with their economy with NONE of the tools they used to deal with the virus. I am unsure why you would believe that .
Sweden caught it early...we did not Sweden has robust testing...we do not and still don't Sweden has exacting contact tracing...we do not and still don't Sweden has 100% pay from day 1 you are sick, removing incentive to work sick...we do not and never willSweden has socialized medicine...we do not Sweden has a reasonable spread out population...we do not. Those 1st four allowed them to handle the virus differently than the US. The Swedes say it was those factors* that allowed them to do what they did...not me. We have none of those. NONE. *and of course the credit their socialized medicine, but no one wants to hear that.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 18:10:05 GMT -5
he said with mitigation the number of cases would will rise for weeks. Also with more testing the case numbers will rise. The death rate has gone down the last week or so. Trusting a doctor with your individual illness is not even in the same argument as a pandemic situation. He is NOT the only medical person working on this for our country. He is the figured head but he is part of a big group. You know the "Corona Virus Task Force" lead by Pence. I don't buy the BULL S***. We stayed at home as a means to halt the spread. If that is not working why are we still at home? They are doubling down on a policy that is only accomplish the systematic destruction of small business and the economy . What that salon owner in Texas did and what Musk is doing in California all business owners should follow. Where do you live, TEM?
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Post by TEM on May 12, 2020 18:15:55 GMT -5
I don't buy the BULL S***. We stayed at home as a means to halt the spread. If that is not working why are we still at home? They are doubling down on a policy that is only accomplish the systematic destruction of small business and the economy . What that salon owner in Texas did and what Musk is doing in California all business owners should follow. Where do you live, TEM? I live in Somerset County in central NJ .l live in a small town . Since week 3 of the lock-down. My town's cases have tripled . No one can convince me stay at home is working.
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Post by Delicreep on May 12, 2020 18:17:55 GMT -5
I live in Somerset County in central NJ .l live in a small town . Since week 3 of the lock-down. My town's cases have tripled . No one can convince me stay at home is working. Ha...I was curious where you lived that made you say it wasn't working, and I wouldn't try and convince you of anything.
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