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Post by piddy283 on Jul 10, 2020 5:19:40 GMT -5
I have to make it my business over the next two weeks to watch a few games from last year and go to school on Williams. My casual take from watching a bad team last year out of one eye was that Williams was not a force that warranted what we paid for him. That is probably not fair because especially on the DL, good work doesn't always hit the stat sheet. I will return on this topic after more work in the film room. I’ll save you the trouble. Williams is a good player, his stat sheet is misleading. He generates a lot of pressure from his position, but like Vernon before him. He’s always there a second too late. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride. He’s good against the run and never gets hurt. Overall, he’s a good player. Not 6th overall in the draft good. But a respected player. The trade was dumb for many reasons. You do not trade for a player on his walk year to a bad team. Especially, giving up draft capital. It doesn’t matter the reasoning or Gettlemans idiotic cliches. Draft picks are gold for a rebuilding franchise. Once the Giants traded for him they had to resign or in our situation tag him. They would have looked like morons for not doing so. And that is a mistake when you’re trying to get better. The player had all the leverage, and the Giants were held with their ***** in their hand. You like Williams? You feel he can be an integral part of our future? Then sign him in free agency. You lose no draft picks, and you have your player. Yeah, you can lose him to another team. But so be it, that’s part of the game. In a high stakes game Gettleman had a pair of twos and tried to outsmart the house. Lots of fans try to justify the move, but when you break it all down and look at it objectively. It was a poor decision.. As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 10, 2020 5:51:12 GMT -5
I’ll save you the trouble. Williams is a good player, his stat sheet is misleading. He generates a lot of pressure from his position, but like Vernon before him. He’s always there a second too late. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride. He’s good against the run and never gets hurt. Overall, he’s a good player. Not 6th overall in the draft good. But a respected player. The trade was dumb for many reasons. You do not trade for a player on his walk year to a bad team. Especially, giving up draft capital. It doesn’t matter the reasoning or Gettlemans idiotic cliches. Draft picks are gold for a rebuilding franchise. Once the Giants traded for him they had to resign or in our situation tag him. They would have looked like morons for not doing so. And that is a mistake when you’re trying to get better. The player had all the leverage, and the Giants were held with their ***** in their hand. You like Williams? You feel he can be an integral part of our future? Then sign him in free agency. You lose no draft picks, and you have your player. Yeah, you can lose him to another team. But so be it, that’s part of the game. In a high stakes game Gettleman had a pair of twos and tried to outsmart the house. Lots of fans try to justify the move, but when you break it all down and look at it objectively. It was a poor decision.. As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. Also people forget 99% we get rid of 2 big contracts next year (Solder and Tate),that alone would be enough to get both Williams and Tomlinson back (as we need to keep this line together long term if you want any form of stability on that defense once it starts to gell ) Also a good chance Zeitler could be gone...and if we lose Shepard to a concussion that's another 20 million in space(yeah losing 2 of your top 3 recievers is a hit,but hopefully in another deep WR class we actually use major resources here next year even if we only lose tate)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 7:06:26 GMT -5
I’ll save you the trouble. Williams is a good player, his stat sheet is misleading. He generates a lot of pressure from his position, but like Vernon before him. He’s always there a second too late. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride. He’s good against the run and never gets hurt. Overall, he’s a good player. Not 6th overall in the draft good. But a respected player. The trade was dumb for many reasons. You do not trade for a player on his walk year to a bad team. Especially, giving up draft capital. It doesn’t matter the reasoning or Gettlemans idiotic cliches. Draft picks are gold for a rebuilding franchise. Once the Giants traded for him they had to resign or in our situation tag him. They would have looked like morons for not doing so. And that is a mistake when you’re trying to get better. The player had all the leverage, and the Giants were held with their ***** in their hand. You like Williams? You feel he can be an integral part of our future? Then sign him in free agency. You lose no draft picks, and you have your player. Yeah, you can lose him to another team. But so be it, that’s part of the game. In a high stakes game Gettleman had a pair of twos and tried to outsmart the house. Lots of fans try to justify the move, but when you break it all down and look at it objectively. It was a poor decision.. As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. Since draft picks are a crap shoot isn't it much better to have more picks to increase the opportunity to hit on them? As for Williams and replacing him with a 3rd rounder you could be correct that they wouldn't be able to replace him with that pick but now they are paying him at a price where he needs to be a star and he's hasn't for his 1st 5 years! That's a mistake for a losing team who now wasted another 3rd round pick from 2018 in B.J. Hill so this decision has the optic they wasted two 3rd round picks on him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 7:10:09 GMT -5
As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. Also people forget 99% we get rid of 2 big contracts next year (Solder and Tate),that alone would be enough to get both Williams and Tomlinson back (as we need to keep this line together long term if you want any form of stability on that defense once it starts to gell ) Also a good chance Zeitler could be gone...and if we lose Shepard to a concussion that's another 20 million in space(yeah losing 2 of your top 3 recievers is a hit,but hopefully in another deep WR class we actually use major resources here next year even if we only lose tate) You really think fans forget that they will most likely be cutting Solder next season? I don't You can add a 3rd big contract to your 99% equation with Williams since they aren't paying him 18 to 20 million a year either.
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 10, 2020 9:04:17 GMT -5
As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. Since draft picks are a crap shoot isn't it much better to have more picks to increase the opportunity to hit on them? As for Williams and replacing him with a 3rd rounder you could be correct that they wouldn't be able to replace him with that pick but now they are paying him at a price where he needs to be a star and he's hasn't for his 1st 5 years! That's a mistake for a losing team who now wasted another 3rd round pick from 2018 in B.J. Hill so this decision has the optic they wasted two 3rd round picks on him. Exactly. This is why I'm an advocate of trading down. Stack as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of finding a player, or leverage those picks in a trade. I guess picks are gold in the sense they provide teams flexibility, but there's no guarantee the 3rd round pick and the 4th/5th round pick we lost would've turned into players. Overall, I'm fine with the trade. I don't think it's the greatest move we've ever made, but I definitely don't think it's as bad as the media/fans try to make it out to be either. Some folks are making this out to be the worst trade in history. This narrative coincides with the consistent criticism DG receives, so it's not surprising.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 10, 2020 9:55:59 GMT -5
As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. Since draft picks are a crap shoot isn't it much better to have more picks to increase the opportunity to hit on them?As for Williams and replacing him with a 3rd rounder you could be correct that they wouldn't be able to replace him with that pick but now they are paying him at a price where he needs to be a star and he's hasn't for his 1st 5 years! That's a mistake for a losing team who now wasted another 3rd round pick from 2018 in B.J. Hill so this decision has the optic they wasted two 3rd round picks on him. No. You really think we would have found a LT in the same caliber as Andrew Thomas later in the draft. Quality over quantity always. Why exactly is BJ Hill a wasted pick?
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 10, 2020 9:56:30 GMT -5
Since draft picks are a crap shoot isn't it much better to have more picks to increase the opportunity to hit on them? As for Williams and replacing him with a 3rd rounder you could be correct that they wouldn't be able to replace him with that pick but now they are paying him at a price where he needs to be a star and he's hasn't for his 1st 5 years! That's a mistake for a losing team who now wasted another 3rd round pick from 2018 in B.J. Hill so this decision has the optic they wasted two 3rd round picks on him. Exactly. This is why I'm an advocate of trading down. Stack as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of finding a player, or leverage those picks in a trade. I guess picks are gold in the sense they provide teams flexibility, but there's no guarantee the 3rd round pick and the 4th/5th round pick we lost would've turned into players. Overall, I'm fine with the trade. I don't think it's the greatest move we've ever made, but I definitely don't think it's as bad as the media/fans try to make it out to be either. Some folks are making this out to be the worst trade in history. This narrative coincides with the consistent criticism DG receives, so it's not surprising. I get your points. But the narrative at the time makes it look worse for DG. The reports at the time of the trade were they basically had a deal that would be done by Thanksgiving. Now here we are in July, having to franchise him while he is asking for 2-4 million MORE per year than the tag? After a decent but not spectacular season. The one remaining question I have is do we get the 5th round pick back if he plays under the tag? Because I think that pick was based on us singing him to a deal.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 10, 2020 10:26:47 GMT -5
I’ll save you the trouble. Williams is a good player, his stat sheet is misleading. He generates a lot of pressure from his position, but like Vernon before him. He’s always there a second too late. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride. He’s good against the run and never gets hurt. Overall, he’s a good player. Not 6th overall in the draft good. But a respected player. The trade was dumb for many reasons. You do not trade for a player on his walk year to a bad team. Especially, giving up draft capital. It doesn’t matter the reasoning or Gettlemans idiotic cliches. Draft picks are gold for a rebuilding franchise. Once the Giants traded for him they had to resign or in our situation tag him. They would have looked like morons for not doing so. And that is a mistake when you’re trying to get better. The player had all the leverage, and the Giants were held with their ***** in their hand. You like Williams? You feel he can be an integral part of our future? Then sign him in free agency. You lose no draft picks, and you have your player. Yeah, you can lose him to another team. But so be it, that’s part of the game. In a high stakes game Gettleman had a pair of twos and tried to outsmart the house. Lots of fans try to justify the move, but when you break it all down and look at it objectively. It was a poor decision.. As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. It’s a tough sell to the fans that we had to make the trade mid season on a let’s be honest underperforming player in Williams. He has yet to showcase the 6th overall pick since he has been in the league. Good player, not great. And when you trade draft capital, during what is a rebuilding year you have to question the move. I see draft picks as lottery tickets, you either win or lose with them. Finding that winning ticket is extremely hard, and as the draft gets to the mid to late rounds the chances become more difficult. But, they’re the blood line of a franchise, look throughout the league. The great teams draft well, know when to make trades, and sign key players to fill important holes. We somehow don’t know if we’re buyers or sellers. We want to win now, and rebuild at the same time. The Giants liked Williams, so why not wait till the season was over? A lost season before Williams stepped foot on his new team. Wait till the season is over, then make the move. And now you have Williams under contract for the long term. Instead, he gambled and thought a deal would have been done before the season was finished. Gettleman thought the fruit was worth the squeeze. When actually it was still green and not ready for juicing.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 10, 2020 11:04:23 GMT -5
As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. It’s a tough sell to the fans that we had to make the trade mid season on a let’s be honest underperforming player in Williams. He has yet to showcase the 6th overall pick since he has been in the league. Good player, not great. And when you trade draft capital, during what is a rebuilding year you have to question the move. I see draft picks as lottery tickets, you either win or lose with them. Finding that winning ticket is extremely hard, and as the draft gets to the mid to late rounds the chances become more difficult. But, they’re the blood line of a franchise, look throughout the league. The great teams draft well, know when to make trades, and sign key players to fill important holes. We somehow don’t know if we’re buyers or sellers. We want to win now, and rebuild at the same time. The Giants liked Williams, so why not wait till the season was over? A lost season before Williams stepped foot on his new team. Wait till the season is over, then make the move. And now you have Williams under contract for the long term. Instead, he gambled and thought a deal would have been done before the season was finished. Gettleman thought the fruit was worth the squeeze. When actually it was still green and not ready for juicing. I can buy the argument that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush - basically having a known good player might be better than gambling on later round picks. But we paid a pretty high price, that price just seems to be going up and up, and many are still not convinced he is worth it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 11:09:04 GMT -5
Since draft picks are a crap shoot isn't it much better to have more picks to increase the opportunity to hit on them? As for Williams and replacing him with a 3rd rounder you could be correct that they wouldn't be able to replace him with that pick but now they are paying him at a price where he needs to be a star and he's hasn't for his 1st 5 years! That's a mistake for a losing team who now wasted another 3rd round pick from 2018 in B.J. Hill so this decision has the optic they wasted two 3rd round picks on him. Exactly. This is why I'm an advocate of trading down. Stack as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of finding a player, or leverage those picks in a trade. I guess picks are gold in the sense they provide teams flexibility, but there's no guarantee the 3rd round pick and the 4th/5th round pick we lost would've turned into players. Overall, I'm fine with the trade. I don't think it's the greatest move we've ever made, but I definitely don't think it's as bad as the media/fans try to make it out to be either. Some folks are making this out to be the worst trade in history. This narrative coincides with the consistent criticism DG receives, so it's not surprising. I'm in the group of fans that thinks this was a bad trade. I think the Ogletree one was also pretty bad and yes I'm in the hate Getty group..
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Post by Fletch842 on Jul 10, 2020 12:36:00 GMT -5
Exactly. This is why I'm an advocate of trading down. Stack as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of finding a player, or leverage those picks in a trade. I guess picks are gold in the sense they provide teams flexibility, but there's no guarantee the 3rd round pick and the 4th/5th round pick we lost would've turned into players. Overall, I'm fine with the trade. I don't think it's the greatest move we've ever made, but I definitely don't think it's as bad as the media/fans try to make it out to be either. Some folks are making this out to be the worst trade in history. This narrative coincides with the consistent criticism DG receives, so it's not surprising. I get your points. But the narrative at the time makes it look worse for DG. The reports at the time of the trade were they basically had a deal that would be done by Thanksgiving. Now here we are in July, having to franchise him while he is asking for 2-4 million MORE per year than the tag? After a decent but not spectacular season. The one remaining question I have is do we get the 5th round pick back if he plays under the tag? Because I think that pick was based on us singing him to a deal. if we signed him in a certain window, it was going to be a 4th round pick, and since we did not, it dropped to the 5th. We won't be getting it back.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 10, 2020 14:03:01 GMT -5
I get your points. But the narrative at the time makes it look worse for DG. The reports at the time of the trade were they basically had a deal that would be done by Thanksgiving. Now here we are in July, having to franchise him while he is asking for 2-4 million MORE per year than the tag? After a decent but not spectacular season. The one remaining question I have is do we get the 5th round pick back if he plays under the tag? Because I think that pick was based on us singing him to a deal. if we signed him in a certain window, it was going to be a 4th round pick, and since we did not, it dropped to the 5th. We won't be getting it back. Right, my bad.
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 10, 2020 16:41:08 GMT -5
Exactly. This is why I'm an advocate of trading down. Stack as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of finding a player, or leverage those picks in a trade. I guess picks are gold in the sense they provide teams flexibility, but there's no guarantee the 3rd round pick and the 4th/5th round pick we lost would've turned into players. Overall, I'm fine with the trade. I don't think it's the greatest move we've ever made, but I definitely don't think it's as bad as the media/fans try to make it out to be either. Some folks are making this out to be the worst trade in history. This narrative coincides with the consistent criticism DG receives, so it's not surprising. I get your points. But the narrative at the time makes it look worse for DG. The reports at the time of the trade were they basically had a deal that would be done by Thanksgiving. Now here we are in July, having to franchise him while he is asking for 2-4 million MORE per year than the tag? After a decent but not spectacular season. The one remaining question I have is do we get the 5th round pick back if he plays under the tag? Because I think that pick was based on us singing him to a deal. I'm admittedly ignorant with contract details, loop holes, etc. I heard all off-season the 3rd we traded could've been the comp pick we ended up getting, but that wasn't the case. Initially, I was under the impression we'd sign Williams long term and be done with it. I was a bit surprised/upset we didn't. However, if we only have him for 1-3 years and don't sign him long term, that may bode well with the current make up of our team. I could be wrong, but I believe we can franchise Williams again if he demands beyond 2020. If so, franchise him again in 2021 and overpay him a bit for another year while we still have ample cap space. If everyone on the DL comes back, we have our 3rd year of continuity on a stout DL. If we end up letting Tomlinson walk, Williams could play a bridge gap be a bridge gap. I really don't see this trade as a negative in nearly anyway, especially long term. Perhaps he's a bit overpaid, but almost every player gets overpaid on their 2nd contract. The fact we have so much cap space to work with over the next few years makes this a non-concern for me.
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 10, 2020 16:44:36 GMT -5
As you mention, Williams is a good player who doesn't get hurt. We play in a division with good running teams, so we need to be able to stop the run. We have a very young team, and could use the veteran presence/leadership. We had/have lots of cap space, and we had/have draft capital. As much as I like the draft, and as much as I advocate trading down when possible, draft picks are not gold.....they're a crap shoot. The chance we would've found someone of Williams caliber in the 3rd+ is slim. In my opinion, the Williams trade didn't damper our rebuild whatsoever. He'll be a solid addition as we continue to build over the next 1-3 years, and that's all he needs to be. It’s a tough sell to the fans that we had to make the trade mid season on a let’s be honest underperforming player in Williams. He has yet to showcase the 6th overall pick since he has been in the league. Good player, not great. And when you trade draft capital, during what is a rebuilding year you have to question the move. I see draft picks as lottery tickets, you either win or lose with them. Finding that winning ticket is extremely hard, and as the draft gets to the mid to late rounds the chances become more difficult. But, they’re the blood line of a franchise, look throughout the league. The great teams draft well, know when to make trades, and sign key players to fill important holes. We somehow don’t know if we’re buyers or sellers. We want to win now, and rebuild at the same time. The Giants liked Williams, so why not wait till the season was over? A lost season before Williams stepped foot on his new team. Wait till the season is over, then make the move. And now you have Williams under contract for the long term. Instead, he gambled and thought a deal would have been done before the season was finished. Gettleman thought the fruit was worth the squeeze. When actually it was still green and not ready for juicing. He hasn't played like a #6 overall pick, I agree. I think this has a lot to do with people's opinions on Williams. He's a good player, and makes others around him better when he's on the field. My statement about lottery tickets/crap shoots actually contradicts many of my posts about DG, because I actually think DG does a very good job in mid-rounds. While I do think Williams is a better talent than 90% of the players who will ultimately be drafted in the 3rd round, who's to say DG wouldn't have found one of the 10%?
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 10, 2020 17:03:45 GMT -5
Exactly. This is why I'm an advocate of trading down. Stack as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of finding a player, or leverage those picks in a trade. I guess picks are gold in the sense they provide teams flexibility, but there's no guarantee the 3rd round pick and the 4th/5th round pick we lost would've turned into players. Overall, I'm fine with the trade. I don't think it's the greatest move we've ever made, but I definitely don't think it's as bad as the media/fans try to make it out to be either. Some folks are making this out to be the worst trade in history. This narrative coincides with the consistent criticism DG receives, so it's not surprising. I'm in the group of fans that thinks this was a bad trade. I think the Ogletree one was also pretty bad and yes I'm in the hate Getty group.. I get it. The majority of media and fans would agree. Ironically, since DG has been the GM: 1- He's completely fixed our financial/cap woes, which were atrocious 2- He's provided a solid foundation of young talent to build on I do not remember the last time I could say either. I see us being on the up and up. #glasshalffull #ifitain'trefillthatshit
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 10, 2020 18:05:08 GMT -5
I'm in the group of fans that thinks this was a bad trade. I think the Ogletree one was also pretty bad and yes I'm in the hate Getty group.. I get it. The majority of media and fans would agree. Ironically, since DG has been the GM: 1- He's completely fixed our financial/cap woes, which were atrocious 2- He's provided a solid foundation of young talent to build on I do not remember the last time I could say either. I see us being on the up and up. #glasshalffull #ifitain'trefillthatshit 3. He has had back-to-back terrible seasons.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jul 10, 2020 19:02:50 GMT -5
I'm in the group of fans that thinks this was a bad trade. I think the Ogletree one was also pretty bad and yes I'm in the hate Getty group.. I get it. The majority of media and fans would agree. Ironically, since DG has been the GM: 1- He's completely fixed our financial/cap woes, which were atrocious 2- He's provided a solid foundation of young talent to build on I do not remember the last time I could say either. I see us being on the up and up. #glasshalffull #ifitain'trefillthatshit He actually hurt the cap most the time. Signing guys like Ogletree, Ohmame, Solder, Stewart, Odell, Keeping Eli last year, ect. And it is still to be determined on his young talent to build on. Lets hope he did nail the DJ and Thomas picks and that in the end I eat a hat talking about how you never draft a RB #2 overall. Lets start winning some damn football games...
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 10, 2020 20:50:49 GMT -5
I get it. The majority of media and fans would agree. Ironically, since DG has been the GM: 1- He's completely fixed our financial/cap woes, which were atrocious 2- He's provided a solid foundation of young talent to build on I do not remember the last time I could say either. I see us being on the up and up. #glasshalffull #ifitain'trefillthatshit 3. He has had back-to-back terrible seasons. Taking over a decade worth of terrible management will do that. I'm not gonna continue to repeat myself, but this was a complete tear down. It wasn't a rebuild. We're better off now than we were when DG took over.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 6:26:50 GMT -5
I get it. The majority of media and fans would agree. Ironically, since DG has been the GM: 1- He's completely fixed our financial/cap woes, which were atrocious 2- He's provided a solid foundation of young talent to build on I do not remember the last time I could say either. I see us being on the up and up. #glasshalffull #ifitain'trefillthatshit He actually hurt the cap most the time. Signing guys like Ogletree, Ohmame, Solder, Stewart, Odell, Keeping Eli last year, ect. And it is still to be determined on his young talent to build on. Lets hope he did nail the DJ and Thomas picks and that in the end I eat a hat talking about how you never draft a RB #2 overall. Lets start winning some damn football games...It's like some fans are happy getting a participation trophy and are always claiming the rookies are great when the record says otherwise. I always like the cap excuse when Getty was a participant in causing the issue just as much as Reese was.. Here's to hoping they do have some great young talent and hit on DJ and Thomas otherwise it's another 5 years of drafting at the top..
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Post by McCherry on Jul 13, 2020 12:09:26 GMT -5
It's not Dave's fault the coach kept making terrible strategic decisions, blowing leads and handing games away. Head coaches do get fired for a reason. If you believe in the talent and believe in the new coach, this team should win games. if not, then we can certainly look at the talent and decisions made.
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Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Merc on Jul 13, 2020 13:32:46 GMT -5
I get your points. But the narrative at the time makes it look worse for DG. The reports at the time of the trade were they basically had a deal that would be done by Thanksgiving. Now here we are in July, having to franchise him while he is asking for 2-4 million MORE per year than the tag? After a decent but not spectacular season. The one remaining question I have is do we get the 5th round pick back if he plays under the tag? Because I think that pick was based on us singing him to a deal. I'm admittedly ignorant with contract details, loop holes, etc. I heard all off-season the 3rd we traded could've been the comp pick we ended up getting, but that wasn't the case. Initially, I was under the impression we'd sign Williams long term and be done with it. I was a bit surprised/upset we didn't. However, if we only have him for 1-3 years and don't sign him long term, that may bode well with the current make up of our team. I could be wrong, but I believe we can franchise Williams again if he demands beyond 2020. If so, franchise him again in 2021 and overpay him a bit for another year while we still have ample cap space. If everyone on the DL comes back, we have our 3rd year of continuity on a stout DL. If we end up letting Tomlinson walk, Williams could play a bridge gap be a bridge gap. I really don't see this trade as a negative in nearly anyway, especially long term. Perhaps he's a bit overpaid, but almost every player gets overpaid on their 2nd contract. The fact we have so much cap space to work with over the next few years makes this a non-concern for me. Williams wanted to stay in the area. The Giants gave him that chance. Now he wants big bucks to stay. The Giants decided to pass and keep him on the tag. Oh well. We might get someone better next season anyway.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 13, 2020 14:17:36 GMT -5
I'm admittedly ignorant with contract details, loop holes, etc. I heard all off-season the 3rd we traded could've been the comp pick we ended up getting, but that wasn't the case. Initially, I was under the impression we'd sign Williams long term and be done with it. I was a bit surprised/upset we didn't. However, if we only have him for 1-3 years and don't sign him long term, that may bode well with the current make up of our team. I could be wrong, but I believe we can franchise Williams again if he demands beyond 2020. If so, franchise him again in 2021 and overpay him a bit for another year while we still have ample cap space. If everyone on the DL comes back, we have our 3rd year of continuity on a stout DL. If we end up letting Tomlinson walk, Williams could play a bridge gap be a bridge gap. I really don't see this trade as a negative in nearly anyway, especially long term. Perhaps he's a bit overpaid, but almost every player gets overpaid on their 2nd contract. The fact we have so much cap space to work with over the next few years makes this a non-concern for me. Williams wanted to stay in the area. The Giants gave him that chance. Now he wants big bucks to stay. The Giants decided to pass and keep him on the tag. Oh well. We might get someone better next season anyway. The Chiefs DT? That indeed would be an upgrade....then again what if the front 3 dominate this year with this system... I'd rather pay Tomlinson and Williams then bring in an unknown.. We will have the cap room If you have the players to dominate the LOS on both sides of the ball,other than franchise QB its about as priority number one to keep the lines intact. That right there is 50% of the equation if not nore for winning championships...
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Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Merc on Jul 13, 2020 14:36:58 GMT -5
Williams wanted to stay in the area. The Giants gave him that chance. Now he wants big bucks to stay. The Giants decided to pass and keep him on the tag. Oh well. We might get someone better next season anyway. The Chiefs DT? That indeed would be an upgrade....then again what if the front 3 dominate this year with this system... I'd rather pay Tomlinson and Williams then bring in an unknown.. We will have the cap room If you have the players to dominate the LOS on both sides of the ball,other than franchise QB its about as priority number one to keep the lines intact. That right there is 50% of the equation if not nore for winning championships... We're not paying him QB money. If he was willing to negotiate a reasonable deal, I'm sure it would have been done. He currently has not earned the tag price. He needs to up his game and be willing to accept his value in a contract.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 13, 2020 14:38:17 GMT -5
The Chiefs DT? That indeed would be an upgrade....then again what if the front 3 dominate this year with this system... I'd rather pay Tomlinson and Williams then bring in an unknown.. We will have the cap room If you have the players to dominate the LOS on both sides of the ball,other than franchise QB its about as priority number one to keep the lines intact. That right there is 50% of the equation if not nore for winning championships... We're not paying him QB money. If he was willing to negotiate a reasonable deal, I'm sure it would have been done. He currently has not earned the tag price. He needs to up his game and be willing to accept his value in a contract. QB price is now 30-40 million a year
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 13, 2020 15:29:29 GMT -5
The Jets already have an All-Pro at that position. You mean Jamal Adams who is telling everyone in ear distance that he wants to get traded? Jamal Adams looks to be a locker room distraction and that might make him available for the right price.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 13, 2020 16:53:29 GMT -5
You mean Jamal Adams who is telling everyone in ear distance that he wants to get traded? Jamal Adams looks to be a locker room distraction and that might make him available for the right price. You make exceptions for great players. Don’t buy the BS that Adams is just some ordinary player. He would be our best defender by a Country mile. Main issue is and always will be..Money. He wants cornerback money. And clearly he voices his opinion on wanting to get paid. I don’t see him as a distraction, most players want to get paid. He just is going about it the wrong way.
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Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Merc on Jul 13, 2020 20:41:59 GMT -5
We're not paying him QB money. If he was willing to negotiate a reasonable deal, I'm sure it would have been done. He currently has not earned the tag price. He needs to up his game and be willing to accept his value in a contract. QB price is now 30-40 million a year Only for teams that want to populate the rest of their team with scrubs.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 13, 2020 23:00:19 GMT -5
QB price is now 30-40 million a year Only for teams that want to populate the rest of their team with scrubs. So what if Jones is a top 5 qb and his value is 43 million in 3 years You are going to let him walk ?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jul 14, 2020 6:16:10 GMT -5
Only for teams that want to populate the rest of their team with scrubs. So what if Jones is a top 5 qb and his value is 43 million in 3 years You are going to let him walk ? That's a tough pill to swallow, but if he is consistantly top 5, you have to keep him no matter the price. You need a legit QB to be a SB contender (unless you have an elite defense). What they better not do is pay Barkely $20-$25m per if he demands it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 7:01:32 GMT -5
Only for teams that want to populate the rest of their team with scrubs. So what if Jones is a top 5 qb and his value is 43 million in 3 years You are going to let him walk ? The history says that teams paying a QBs top 10 money have difficulty making it to the super bowl. Mahomes can be the player to change this narrative but we will have to wait a few years in order to see if this is even true with him. It will be a nice issue to have to deal with in 3 years but as you keep claiming they don't have the weapons to make this come true.
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