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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 13:55:04 GMT -5
I am expecting a totally different defense then we are used to under Patrick Graham. It’s still mind blowing how bad Bettcher was. Forcing our secondary to play mostly zone when their strengths were man. We didn’t blitz nearly enough albeit maybe this is because of the lack luster play of our Corners. Graham runs the cover 1 pretty much more then any other team in the NFL and will switch from a 3/4 to 4/3 as needed. Also Graham likes to blitz. A lot. I think McKinney is going to have a huge impact for us and am so excited we got him. Our front 3 and even 4 are pretty damn good against the run. We have a ton of new faces in our Secondary now which should bring out some nice competition. Does anyone feel we can be a top 20 Defense or dare I even say top 10?
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Post by McCherry on Jul 8, 2020 14:19:03 GMT -5
I am expecting a totally different defense then we are used to under Patrick Graham. It’s still mind blowing how bad Bettcher was. Forcing our secondary to play mostly zone when their strengths were man. We didn’t blitz nearly enough albeit maybe this is because of the lack luster play of our Corners. Graham runs the cover 1 pretty much more then any other team in the NFL and will switch from a 3/4 to 4/3 as needed. Also Graham likes to blitz. A lot. I think McKinney is going to have a huge impact for us and am so excited we got him. Our front 3 and even 4 are pretty damn good against the run. We have a ton of new faces in our Secondary now which should bring out some nice competition. Does anyone feel we can be a top 20 Defense or dare I even say top 10?If there is no season, I say definitely.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 8, 2020 15:19:19 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of.
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 8, 2020 15:27:17 GMT -5
I am expecting a totally different defense then we are used to under Patrick Graham. It’s still mind blowing how bad Bettcher was. Forcing our secondary to play mostly zone when their strengths were man. We didn’t blitz nearly enough albeit maybe this is because of the lack luster play of our Corners. Graham runs the cover 1 pretty much more then any other team in the NFL and will switch from a 3/4 to 4/3 as needed. Also Graham likes to blitz. A lot. I think McKinney is going to have a huge impact for us and am so excited we got him. Our front 3 and even 4 are pretty damn good against the run. We have a ton of new faces in our Secondary now which should bring out some nice competition. Does anyone feel we can be a top 20 Defense or dare I even say top 10? Huh...I was going to ask why you didn't put defense in quotes. We have no pass rush We have a green secondary Three of us are trying out for linebacker in camp.
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 8, 2020 15:34:42 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. my only problem with Bettcher is that he put players out on the field who admittedly didn't know their playbook and to me that's unacceptable...
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 8, 2020 15:35:16 GMT -5
I am expecting a totally different defense then we are used to under Patrick Graham. It’s still mind blowing how bad Bettcher was. Forcing our secondary to play mostly zone when their strengths were man. We didn’t blitz nearly enough albeit maybe this is because of the lack luster play of our Corners. Graham runs the cover 1 pretty much more then any other team in the NFL and will switch from a 3/4 to 4/3 as needed. Also Graham likes to blitz. A lot. I think McKinney is going to have a huge impact for us and am so excited we got him. Our front 3 and even 4 are pretty damn good against the run. We have a ton of new faces in our Secondary now which should bring out some nice competition. Does anyone feel we can be a top 20 Defense or dare I even say top 10? Huh...I was going to ask why you didn't put defense in quotes. We have no pass rush We have a green secondary Three of us are trying out for linebacker in camp. Hey, if we play our cards right we can go from a pathetic defense to a woeful one in no time. Graham’s the man, if he can’t do it no one can.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 8, 2020 15:40:44 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. Bettcher also had a disproportionate amount of rookies in the starting lineup. Hill, Baker, Love, Connelly, Carter, Ballantine, Lawrence.... McKinney might be the only rookie on defense this year. It's a young defense but it's not inexperienced. That is the biggest factor this year compared to Bettcher's group.
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 8, 2020 15:42:55 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. my only problem with Bettcher is that he put players out on the field who admittedly didn't know their playbook and to me that's unacceptable... You mean Baker? It’s ok to say his name. Deandre Baker our 1st round pick we traded up for thought learning the playbook was optional. I’m thinking by mid year when all the players had the playbook memorized Baker was still on welcome to the New York Giants. As for Bettcher, what could he have done? I agree with your point though. But bench him for Ballentine? Beal? Hamilton? The depth at corner last year was slim. Any slimmer and it would be anorexic. Bettcher had to go with his 11 best guys. Especially, when you know your job is on the line.
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 8, 2020 15:49:01 GMT -5
my only problem with Bettcher is that he put players out on the field who admittedly didn't know their playbook and to me that's unacceptable... You mean Baker? It’s ok to say his name. Deandre Baker our 1st round pick we traded up for thought learning the playbook was optional. I’m thinking by mid year when all the players had the playbook memorized Baker was still on welcome to the New York Giants. As for Bettcher, what could he have done? I agree with your point though. But bench him for Ballentine? Beal? Hamilton? The depth at corner last year was slim. Any slimmer and it would be anorexic. Bettcher had to go with his 11 best guys. Especially, when you know your job is on the line. I know the talent was thin last season but putting a player out on the field who doesn't know what to do is a recipe for disaster and the coach had to know that...
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Post by McCherry on Jul 8, 2020 15:54:50 GMT -5
You mean Baker? It’s ok to say his name. Deandre Baker our 1st round pick we traded up for thought learning the playbook was optional. I’m thinking by mid year when all the players had the playbook memorized Baker was still on welcome to the New York Giants. As for Bettcher, what could he have done? I agree with your point though. But bench him for Ballentine? Beal? Hamilton? The depth at corner last year was slim. Any slimmer and it would be anorexic. Bettcher had to go with his 11 best guys. Especially, when you know your job is on the line. I know the talent was thin last season but putting a player out on the field who doesn't know what to do is a recipe for disaster and the coach had to now that... To be fair, rookies usually don't know what to do.
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Post by JoeyCush on Jul 8, 2020 16:13:07 GMT -5
Honestly until they show something, to me, this team doesnt have a defense. Yes, they have been that bad. Thats on management, thats on coaches and thats on the players.
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 8, 2020 16:14:08 GMT -5
I know the talent was thin last season but putting a player out on the field who doesn't know what to do is a recipe for disaster and the coach had to now that... To be fair, rookies usually don't know what to do. that is exactly my point, a player who doesn't know what his responsibilities are has no business on the field.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 8, 2020 18:57:11 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. I agree its not all on Bettcher, but his defense looked dazed and confused in too many games. And not just for one year, for both years he was here. I'm gonna give Graham a chance to coach in NY before I comment, but thats just me.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 8, 2020 19:24:10 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. my only problem with Bettcher is that he put players out on the field who admittedly didn't know their playbook and to me that's unacceptable... Baker was a #1 draft choice. Maybe Bettcher had no choice, he might have been told to play him.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 9, 2020 8:46:59 GMT -5
Who knows No OTAs to see what we have and see what players are capable of and learn tbe system in practice.
My guess is the last 4 weeks of the year it will finally look like an up and coming unit My fear is that it looks even worse tbe first 4 to 6 weeks of the season with only training camp to learn this and not even knowing what players strengths are
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Post by snyder55 on Jul 9, 2020 15:09:03 GMT -5
my only problem with Bettcher is that he put players out on the field who admittedly didn't know their playbook and to me that's unacceptable... Baker was a #1 draft choice. Maybe Bettcher had no choice, he might have been told to play him.
I really hope the team isn't that dumb..
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Post by McCherry on Jul 9, 2020 15:09:19 GMT -5
Who knows No OTAs to see what we have and see what players are capable of and learn tbe system in practice. My guess is the last 4 weeks of the year it will finally look like an up and coming unit My fear is that it looks even worse tbe first 4 to 6 weeks of the season with only training camp to learn this and not even knowing what players strengths are At this rate that might be the whole season.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 9, 2020 15:10:32 GMT -5
my only problem with Bettcher is that he put players out on the field who admittedly didn't know their playbook and to me that's unacceptable... Baker was a #1 draft choice. Maybe Bettcher had no choice, he might have been told to play him.
It’s not that he had no choice, first round picks are expected to start right away. That’s just part of the economics.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 9, 2020 17:35:10 GMT -5
Who knows No OTAs to see what we have and see what players are capable of and learn tbe system in practice. My guess is the last 4 weeks of the year it will finally look like an up and coming unit My fear is that it looks even worse tbe first 4 to 6 weeks of the season with only training camp to learn this and not even knowing what players strengths are I think that's unfortunately how it could turn out. I actually think our defense has 3 significant upgrades in it's starters over last year. Bradbury and Martinez over Jenkins and Ogletree. And I'm really hoping that McKinney is as good as he's suppose to be. Him and Peppers could give us as good a tandem at Safety as we've had in some time. The D should be more talented I think.
I think our DL should be good, and our DB's if Baker can rebound and not be an Eli Apple or worse we can be solid. Sure hope Baker's head is on straight, I thought we stole one when we came back late in the 1st rd and nabbed him.
No pass rush (Again). To hope for Frackel to achieve his output from 2 years ago does not give me a strong feeling for improvement. Maybe Golden returns and we put each of these guys on each side and something happens. This lack of pass rush is a dagger to the heart of any defense. I hope this new DC is inventive. We should live and die with the blitz.
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Post by giantsrock on Jul 9, 2020 18:02:25 GMT -5
Who knows No OTAs to see what we have and see what players are capable of and learn tbe system in practice. My guess is the last 4 weeks of the year it will finally look like an up and coming unit My fear is that it looks even worse tbe first 4 to 6 weeks of the season with only training camp to learn this and not even knowing what players strengths are I think that's unfortunately how it could turn out. I actually think our defense has 3 significant upgrades in it's starters over last year. Bradbury and Martinez over Jenkins and Ogletree. And I'm really hoping that McKinney is as good as he's suppose to be. Him and Peppers could give us as good a tandem at Safety as we've had in some time. The D should be more talented I think.
I think our DL should be good, and our DB's if Baker can rebound and not be an Eli Apple or worse we can be solid. Sure hope Baker's head is on straight, I thought we stole one when we came back late in the 1st rd and nabbed him.
No pass rush (Again). To hope for Frackel to achieve his output from 2 years ago does not give me a strong feeling for improvement. Maybe Golden returns and we put each of these guys on each side and something happens. This lack of pass rush is a dagger to the heart of any defense. I hope this new DC is inventive. We should live and die with the blitz.
Did I miss something on Baker. The last I heard the state decided to procede with the case and not drop it like Bakers lawyer said would happen. Unless something's changed I doubt he'll ever play for the giants again.
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mikethenygfan
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Post by mikethenygfan on Jul 9, 2020 20:40:52 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. i mean if he can just keep players awake during meetings that would be a step up.
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 9, 2020 21:53:00 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. i mean if he can just keep players awake during meetings that would be a step up. I have no idea how much of the problems on D were the result of poor coaching/discipline, but it has to be some, right? I am hopeful the new regime can get the most out of everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 7:13:34 GMT -5
i mean if he can just keep players awake during meetings that would be a step up. I have no idea how much of the problems on D were the result of poor coaching/discipline, but it has to be some, right? I am hopeful the new regime can get the most out of everyone. These same things were said entering the 2018 season with that new coaching staff being brought in. Hopefully it finally come true!
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 10, 2020 7:18:19 GMT -5
I have no idea how much of the problems on D were the result of poor coaching/discipline, but it has to be some, right? I am hopeful the new regime can get the most out of everyone. These same things were said entering the 2018 season with that new coaching staff being brought in. Hopefully it finally come true! These are the dreams every year!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 7:31:34 GMT -5
These same things were said entering the 2018 season with that new coaching staff being brought in. Hopefully it finally come true! These are the dreams every year! I can't wait to wake up!!
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Post by Providence on Jul 10, 2020 8:59:39 GMT -5
Lots of shitting on Bettcher. Some deserving, but some of that blame falls on the players. They did him no favors with their pathetic showing and effort the last two seasons. I’m glad Bettcher is gone, but it’s not like we hired a defensive savant in Graham. One year he was a DC for the hapless Dolphins. I want to see if he can put players in positions to succeed and that the players play hard for him. If those two things happen then maybe and I mean maybe we can have a defense that we aren’t ashamed of. I agree its not all on Bettcher, but his defense looked dazed and confused in too many games. And not just for one year, for both years he was here. I'm gonna give Graham a chance to coach in NY before I comment, but thats just me. Dazed and confused is a perfect way to describe them. I’d like to see them at least be in the rights spots and seem like they know what’s going on. If you know what’s going on and get beat, so be it, I can live with that. But seeing so many players looking lost is a hard pill swallow. I’m hoping Graham can get us there.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 10, 2020 9:46:12 GMT -5
I think that's unfortunately how it could turn out. I actually think our defense has 3 significant upgrades in it's starters over last year. Bradbury and Martinez over Jenkins and Ogletree. And I'm really hoping that McKinney is as good as he's suppose to be. Him and Peppers could give us as good a tandem at Safety as we've had in some time. The D should be more talented I think.
I think our DL should be good, and our DB's if Baker can rebound and not be an Eli Apple or worse we can be solid. Sure hope Baker's head is on straight, I thought we stole one when we came back late in the 1st rd and nabbed him.
No pass rush (Again). To hope for Frackel to achieve his output from 2 years ago does not give me a strong feeling for improvement. Maybe Golden returns and we put each of these guys on each side and something happens. This lack of pass rush is a dagger to the heart of any defense. I hope this new DC is inventive. We should live and die with the blitz.
Did I miss something on Baker. The last I heard the state decided to procede with the case and not drop it like Bakers lawyer said would happen. Unless something's changed I doubt he'll ever play for the giants again. Oh didn't read that, thought his case was being dropped. Boy last 2 first rd picks that were DB's Apple and Baker have been real swings and a miss. Hope McKinney breaks that cycle. Maybe we'll have better luck with a Safety rather than CB's.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 10, 2020 10:07:27 GMT -5
I agree its not all on Bettcher, but his defense looked dazed and confused in too many games. And not just for one year, for both years he was here. I'm gonna give Graham a chance to coach in NY before I comment, but thats just me. Dazed and confused is a perfect way to describe them. I’d like to see them at least be in the rights spots and seem like they know what’s going on. If you know what’s going on and get beat, so be it, I can live with that. But seeing so many players looking lost is a hard pill swallow. I’m hoping Graham can get us there. Yeah. I cant count how many times last year there were literally no one within 10 yards of a receiver and our DBs covering no one. Zone D was just embarrassing.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jul 10, 2020 12:32:49 GMT -5
Dazed and confused is a perfect way to describe them. I’d like to see them at least be in the rights spots and seem like they know what’s going on. If you know what’s going on and get beat, so be it, I can live with that. But seeing so many players looking lost is a hard pill swallow. I’m hoping Graham can get us there. Yeah. I cant count how many times last year there were literally no one within 10 yards of a receiver and our DBs covering no one. Zone D was just embarrassing. As many have joked, it looked like they were early practictioners of social distancing.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 10, 2020 14:28:11 GMT -5
not at all sure what Graham will do. Firmly planted on the fence
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