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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 11, 2020 15:59:28 GMT -5
Don't forget Love. Baker had some attitude issues at the combine but I don't think off field type stuff. Time will tell but they have other options these things happen as you said good corner draft class if he ends up guilty even if he doesn't. Love can probably do many things at this level but based on what I saw in limited field time last year, he sure can tackle in the open field. He probably is a natural FS that can be used occasionally in the slot... TEs were not successful against him (but then again why target anyone when there was a big red arrow flashing ^throw ball here" over Ogletree)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 17:25:08 GMT -5
Definitely not good if true. Things looked like they were about to make a turn for the better, but this certainly makes things tougher for him. Hopefully it’s not true but guys are going to need to be ready to step up regardless (calling Ballentine and maybe Beal). Innocent until proven guilty obviously and I hope it’s just a bs report that will be proven wrong in the future That's Chump Change for NFL Players. You rob me and steal my watch, I am getting a Million Bucks
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 17:26:49 GMT -5
If true... yikes. Why would you do something so easily traced like Instagram direct messages? Still a lot of things need to unfold but this is not a good look for these guys Why would you rob people who know you? We aren't talking about rocket scientists here
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 11, 2020 17:34:57 GMT -5
One thing I will say is those SEC schools are fantastic at hiding character issues while at school. There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jul 11, 2020 18:07:04 GMT -5
One thing I will say is those SEC schools are fantastic at hiding character issues while at school. There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored. Agreed. Im just saying his character concerns were probably way worse than even the presented ones. The way Florida hid Aaron Hernandez; issues while in Gainesville makes me never underestimate the schools determination to bury dirty laundry to pursue the ultimate goal of winning championships.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 11, 2020 18:29:14 GMT -5
Gotta admit, I'm running out of excuses for the kid.
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Post by SG88 on Jul 11, 2020 19:34:50 GMT -5
If this is remotely true, he needs to be cut. I'm still skeptical considering the source (Pat Leonard). He is the ultimate attention whore.
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Post by giants8493 on Jul 11, 2020 19:47:20 GMT -5
One thing I will say is those SEC schools are fantastic at hiding character issues while at school. There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored. The concerns seemed to be mainly work ethic though. Very different from criminal intent.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 11, 2020 19:52:00 GMT -5
There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored. The concerns seemed to be mainly work ethic though. Very different from criminal intent. Agreed. But the pre-draft work ethic concerns were realized immediately his first season. Even before this happened, I never thought that the kid would be good after the reports about last season started coming out ....
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jul 11, 2020 19:53:46 GMT -5
There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored. The concerns seemed to be mainly work ethic though. Very different from criminal intent. Those are the hidden ones I'm talking about when these kids are in college. Campus town cops bend over backwards for their boys in football uniforms. You are right though, all that came out prior to the draft was work ethic issues that I know about.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 11, 2020 21:16:26 GMT -5
If this is remotely true, he needs to be cut. I'm still skeptical considering the source (Pat Leonard). He is the ultimate attention whore.
No doubt. The fact that Leonard put this out there is reason to be skeptical. but the longer the charges are pending and not thrown out, the worst it is for Baker and tells us pretty much what we need to know.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 11, 2020 21:34:40 GMT -5
One thing I will say is those SEC schools are fantastic at hiding character issues while at school. There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored.
The idea that ESPN new something an NFL team didn't is ludicrous.
There isn't one player coming out of the draft that is the perfect football player.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 11, 2020 21:44:16 GMT -5
Definitely not good if true. Things looked like they were about to make a turn for the better, but this certainly makes things tougher for him. Hopefully it’s not true but guys are going to need to be ready to step up regardless (calling Ballentine and maybe Beal). Innocent until proven guilty obviously and I hope it’s just a bs report that will be proven wrong in the future That's Chump Change for NFL Players. You rob me and steal my watch, I am getting a Million Bucks That's another not believeable part of this. The claim is he paid only 55k to 4 guys. A little over 13k a piece, for guys playing in poker games winning or losing 70k a night? Makes no sense.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 11, 2020 21:52:54 GMT -5
That's Chump Change for NFL Players. You rob me and steal my watch, I am getting a Million Bucks That's another not believeable part of this. The claim is he paid only 55k to 4 guys. A little over 13k a piece, for guys playing in poker games winning or losing 70k a night? Makes no sense. LOL, totally.... How did they come up with that nice round number, 55?
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 11, 2020 23:03:36 GMT -5
There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored. Agreed. Im just saying his character concerns were probably way worse than even the presented ones. The way Florida hid Aaron Hernandez; issues while in Gainesville makes me never underestimate the schools determination to bury dirty laundry to pursue the ultimate goal of winning championships. Well said. I also think teams hear a little and look for reassurance that the kid is good and just needs some maturing. I don't kill Gettleman with this one. They likely knew, discussed it and thought he was worth the shot, meaning they thought they could get him in line. Gettleman does plenty of other stuff to earn his donkey ears, I'm not hung on up on this one. Besides, why worry when we have Williams? He's gonna have a monster year. On a mediocre team. And it start all over again!
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 12, 2020 5:27:30 GMT -5
There were questions about this kid pre-draft, which Gettleman either (1) did not discover (even though ESPN was able to); or (2) ignored.
The idea that ESPN new something an NFL team didn't is ludicrous.
There isn't one player coming out of the draft that is the perfect football player.
Well then Gettleman ignored what he knew. There are reports now that the Giants did know about his issues but picked him anyway. Could go down as the worst Giants’ first round pick of all time.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jul 12, 2020 7:01:27 GMT -5
The idea that ESPN new something an NFL team didn't is ludicrous.
There isn't one player coming out of the draft that is the perfect football player.
Well then Gettleman ignored what he knew. There are reports now that the Giants did know about his issues but picked him anyway. Could go down as the worst Giants’ first round pick of all time. not even close (not saying he's looking good right now, but even if he never plays again, he ain't our worst first round pick ever, by a mile, imho)
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Post by Bigjeep on Jul 12, 2020 7:16:19 GMT -5
The Giants need to cut bait with this idiot and move on and not waste anymore time with him like they did with the pisser! BTW - Don't care if he's guilty or not! Guys a loser!
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 12, 2020 7:58:30 GMT -5
Agreed. Im just saying his character concerns were probably way worse than even the presented ones. The way Florida hid Aaron Hernandez; issues while in Gainesville makes me never underestimate the schools determination to bury dirty laundry to pursue the ultimate goal of winning championships. Well said. I also think teams hear a little and look for reassurance that the kid is good and just needs some maturing. I don't kill Gettleman with this one. They likely knew, discussed it and thought he was worth the shot, meaning they thought they could get him in line. Gettleman does plenty of other stuff to earn his donkey ears, I'm not hung on up on this one. Besides, why worry when we have Williams? He's gonna have a monster year. On a mediocre team. And it start all over again! IMO you don’t move up into the first round to take a “shot” on a guy in the hopes that you can “get him in line.” Especially when you have a terrible roster in dire need of good players. I would have been fine if we made a late round pick using that rationale, but a first rounder? No
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 12, 2020 8:01:01 GMT -5
Well then Gettleman ignored what he knew. There are reports now that the Giants did know about his issues but picked him anyway. Could go down as the worst Giants’ first round pick of all time. not even close (not saying he's looking good right now, but even if he never plays again, he ain't our worst first round pick ever, by a mile, imho) One year of shit play, poor work and falling asleep during meetings, followed-up by an off-season armed robbery and witness tampering ... hard to imagine a pick beating out that beauty by “a mile.”
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 12, 2020 8:58:52 GMT -5
The idea that ESPN new something an NFL team didn't is ludicrous.
There isn't one player coming out of the draft that is the perfect football player.
Well then Gettleman ignored what he knew. There are reports now that the Giants did know about his issues but picked him anyway. Could go down as the worst Giants’ first round pick of all time. There were a few reports which means the Giants did their homework by speaking to his coaches, family, counselors, etc. and graded him accordingly. If he turns out to be a bust, that’s on Dave. But the idea that others knew something we didn’t is not something I’m buying. We didn’t hear anything about that pick being a head-scratcher at the time. It wasn’t until we saw his game that we began to question the kid.
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Post by fifthavephil on Jul 12, 2020 9:09:55 GMT -5
Scouting has progressed each and every year. Players are under microscope, from family, friends and talent. It is possible, why the Giants made changes in there scouting department.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 12, 2020 9:21:22 GMT -5
Scouting has progressed each and every year. Players are under microscope, from family, friends and talent. It is possible, why the Giants made changes in there scouting department. That is definitely part of it. You are correct for first round and second round picks the scouts should be able to get deep into personal habits, seriousness about the business of football, groups they hang out with passion for preparation etc. Our scouts missed a lot of that in the early rounds. In the middle rounds they had this penchant for picking "labels" rather than football players. Perfect example was Travis Beckham. They were enamored with his speed at tight end, 4.6 and said he had hands like a WR. The problem as it turned out is that he was too small to block the position and not nearly fast enough to be a viable WR. Another wasted 3rd round pick. There were too many like that to mention.
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Post by fifthavephil on Jul 12, 2020 9:48:39 GMT -5
Scouting has progressed each and every year. Players are under microscope, from family, friends and talent. It is possible, why the Giants made changes in there scouting department. That is definitely part of it. You are correct for first round and second round picks the scouts should be able to get deep into personal habits, seriousness about the business of football, groups they hang out with passion for preparation etc. Our scouts missed a lot of that in the early rounds. In the middle rounds they had this penchant for picking "labels" rather than football players. Perfect example was Travis Beckham. They were enamored with his speed at tight end, 4.6 and said he had hands like a WR. The problem as it turned out is that he was too small to block the position and not nearly fast enough to be a viable WR. Another wasted 3rd round pick. There were too many like that to mention. I also forgot to mention durability. Travis Beckham, had talent but was injury prone. No one can predict injuries but if you have a track record of major injuries , Red Flag. DG, has done a very good job of drafting. The Baker situation may effect DG future as GM.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 12, 2020 10:36:39 GMT -5
Well then Gettleman ignored what he knew. There are reports now that the Giants did know about his issues but picked him anyway. Could go down as the worst Giants’ first round pick of all time. There were a few reports which means the Giants did their homework by speaking to his coaches, family, counselors, etc. and graded him accordingly. If he turns out to be a bust, that’s on Dave. But the idea that others knew something we didn’t is not something I’m buying. We didn’t hear anything about that pick being a head-scratcher at the time. It wasn’t until we saw his game that we began to question the kid. It seems from the reports now that the Giants were well aware of this guy’s issues. Actually, I‘m not sure what’s better - that they didn’t know about his issues when everyone else seemed to, or that they knew about his issues and drafted him anyway. Either way, not a good look.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 12, 2020 11:52:29 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but don't recall Baker's off-the-field concerns being a big topic for discussion here at the time we drafted him. You also have his college coach ringing huge endorsements for him. Clearly something was missed. Either way It's a huge, huge wasted source of assets for a desperately rebuilding team. Giants blew this one big-time, I blame everybody. If this is all true I agree it would have to be our worst pick of all time.
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Post by giants8493 on Jul 12, 2020 11:57:05 GMT -5
The concerns seemed to be mainly work ethic though. Very different from criminal intent. Agreed. But the pre-draft work ethic concerns were realized immediately his first season. Even before this happened, I never thought that the kid would be good after the reports about last season started coming out .... Yes. I blame DG for selecting a player that falls asleep in meetings. The legal issues are an entirely different story.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jul 12, 2020 12:25:20 GMT -5
Sometimes talented guys with questionable character slip and someone takes a shot on them. Sometimes you get Randy Moss, sometimes you get Lawrence Phlllps. I am sure DG knew, but I’m not upset with him for shooting his shot. The new staff also probably could have done better with him, but it’s impossible to foresee an incident like this.
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Post by DJones19 on Jul 12, 2020 14:13:43 GMT -5
I heard a lot of talk about Baker's talent but never got to see it on the field...Definitely upset with the front office. Moss slipped in the draft but he was a real talent, finished with 17 TDs as a rookie. Baker 0 INTs.
Baker was slow at the combine and looked slow on the football field. Considering we traded away draft picks for him in a rebuild year...there's a valid argument that he's the worst Giant's draft pick of all-time. Net result: 0 players for the price of 3.
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 12, 2020 14:31:28 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but don't recall Baker's off-the-field concerns being a big topic for discussion here at the time we drafted him. You also have his college coach ringing huge endorsements for him. Clearly something was missed. Either way It's a huge, huge wasted source of assets for a desperately rebuilding team. Giants blew this one big-time, I blame everybody. If this is all true I agree it would have to be our worst pick of all time. You and your wife feeling ok?
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