robl
Special Teams
Posts: 1,375
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Post by robl on Aug 2, 2020 15:46:41 GMT -5
Who’s this Beal you are referring to?
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Post by Kase1 on Aug 2, 2020 15:49:55 GMT -5
Didnt they already do that? You mean that guy I never heard of and still can't think of his name? I meant a starter like Logan. That guy who's name you cant think of is 1 of the best young CBs in the league. The name's Bradbury, James Bradbury
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 2, 2020 15:52:13 GMT -5
Who’s this Beal you are referring to? You know the Beal.
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Post by McCherry on Aug 2, 2020 16:00:32 GMT -5
Who’s this Beal you are referring to? You know the Beal. All 6 games...
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Post by lt56 on Aug 2, 2020 16:32:26 GMT -5
Honestly...would rather just sign Jadeveon Clowney!
I like Yannick Ngakoue by the way but damn they would have to give up a high pick and pay him a lot of money. Not really comfortable doing this with DG as the GM, he might trade of him then just like with Williams they will struggle to sign to a long term deal
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 17:24:44 GMT -5
This team is still young enough to build through Draft. It's not like "The window is closing" "Win now" for some aging Franchise QB. Don't spend high draft pick for him. On the other end of the argument ....you do like to roll the dice for a SB run with a young QB who is on a rookie deal. Not suggesting this particular kid at this time, but spending a little free agent cash for a pass rush could be imperative quite soon...well, before Daniel Jones proves he is worthy of a second contract.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 2, 2020 17:30:50 GMT -5
Who’s this Beal you are referring to? You know the Beal. she danced really nicely in an 80's movie, right?
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 3, 2020 15:34:16 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of giving up high draft picks in a trade, especially for a team like the Giants who are still rebuilding and more than a year away from contending for anything.....
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Post by jb456 on Aug 3, 2020 16:04:58 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of giving up high draft picks in a trade, especially for a team like the Giants who are still rebuilding and more than a year away from contending for anything..... They won't. DG wouldn't do that after the LW trade. Plus, why the hell would they shell out big $'s and a draft pick in a year where the absolute ceiling is probably 8-8? In fact, 8-8 should get Judge coach of the year. If the Giants were a player or 2 away, what the hell. They aren't....
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Post by jb456 on Aug 3, 2020 16:07:50 GMT -5
This team is still young enough to build through Draft. It's not like "The window is closing" "Win now" for some aging Franchise QB. Don't spend high draft pick for him. On the other end of the argument ....you do like to roll the dice for a SB run with a young QB who is on a rookie deal. Not suggesting this particular kid at this time, but spending a little free agent cash for a pass rush could be imperative quite soon...well, before Daniel Jones proves he is worthy of a second contract. I see where you are coming from but the Giants have been a bottom 5 team for several years. IMO, it doesn't make sense sacrificing a high draft pick AND shelling out a massive contract in a year where 8-8 would be cause for celebration....
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Post by Jomo on Aug 3, 2020 16:22:51 GMT -5
We just need to keep drafting better and harvesting UDFA. We will still make some mistakes but they won't cost us as much. Not a fan at all of this type deal.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 3, 2020 18:03:05 GMT -5
On the other end of the argument ....you do like to roll the dice for a SB run with a young QB who is on a rookie deal. Not suggesting this particular kid at this time, but spending a little free agent cash for a pass rush could be imperative quite soon...well, before Daniel Jones proves he is worthy of a second contract. I see where you are coming from but the Giants have been a bottom 5 team for several years. IMO, it doesn't make sense sacrificing a high draft pick AND shelling out a massive contract in a year where 8-8 would be cause for celebration.... Is this about Williams? Or Ngakoue?
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 3, 2020 19:07:18 GMT -5
We just need to keep drafting better and harvesting UDFA. We will still make some mistakes but they won't cost us as much.Not a fan at all of this type deal. The Giants have that down to a science. You don’t lose as much as they have over the last 8 years without knowing a thing or two about mistakes. Here’s to hoping the mistakes become less frequent.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 3, 2020 21:54:46 GMT -5
I see where you are coming from but the Giants have been a bottom 5 team for several years. IMO, it doesn't make sense sacrificing a high draft pick AND shelling out a massive contract in a year where 8-8 would be cause for celebration.... Is this about Williams? Or Ngakoue? Ngakoue. The Giants only gave up a 3rd for Williams. It will take a 1st to get Ngakoue...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 22:23:35 GMT -5
I'm comfortable with what we have
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 5:40:45 GMT -5
Is this about Williams? Or Ngakoue? Ngakoue. The Giants only gave up a 3rd for Williams. It will take a 1st to get Ngakoue... Im not sure it would take a 1st with his contract demands. Its kind of why we got Williams for a 3rd. He was at the end of his contract and wanted a huge pay day. Same with Ngakoue. Jags lost all leverage with him already too. Ngakoue is making $17M this current year. And we didnt have to pay Williams much last year when we traded for him.
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Post by imgrate on Aug 4, 2020 6:43:43 GMT -5
Ngakoue. The Giants only gave up a 3rd for Williams. It will take a 1st to get Ngakoue... Im not sure it would take a 1st with his contract demands. Its kind of why we got Williams for a 3rd. He was at the end of his contract and wanted a huge pay day. Same with Ngakoue. Jags lost all leverage with him already too. Ngakoue is making $17M this current year. And we didnt have to pay Williams much last year when we traded for him. Doubt it. Ngakoue is a much better player than Williams at a much more valuable position and he's actually worth the value of a franchise tag. The Jags can just keep franchising him if they want. Jalen Ramsey pulled the same/similar crap with a year left on his deal and fetched them two 1s, I think ngakoue gets them less than that, but still they have no reason to trade him for less than what they value him at, which I can't imagine is less than a 1st round pick, otherwise I would think some team would've pulled the trigger on getting him by now.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 7:31:15 GMT -5
Im not sure it would take a 1st with his contract demands. Its kind of why we got Williams for a 3rd. He was at the end of his contract and wanted a huge pay day. Same with Ngakoue. Jags lost all leverage with him already too. Ngakoue is making $17M this current year. And we didnt have to pay Williams much last year when we traded for him. Doubt it. Ngakoue is a much better player than Williams at a much more valuable position and he's actually worth the value of a franchise tag. The Jags can just keep franchising him if they want. Jalen Ramsey pulled the same/similar crap with a year left on his deal and fetched them two 1s, I think ngakoue gets them less than that, but still they have no reason to trade him for less than what they value him at, which I can't imagine is less than a 1st round pick, otherwise I would think some team would've pulled the trigger on getting him by now. What are you basing that on? Itss always hard to judge 2 different players at 2 different positions. I feel Williams is a top 5 DT, certainly top 10. I dont think Ngakoue is a top 10 pass rusher. Now all of that said, I would gladly trade them in a one for one deal considering the teams makeup. We need a pass rusher. We have Lawrence, Tomlinson and Hill already on the inside.
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 4, 2020 8:05:54 GMT -5
Doubt it. Ngakoue is a much better player than Williams at a much more valuable position and he's actually worth the value of a franchise tag. The Jags can just keep franchising him if they want. Jalen Ramsey pulled the same/similar crap with a year left on his deal and fetched them two 1s, I think ngakoue gets them less than that, but still they have no reason to trade him for less than what they value him at, which I can't imagine is less than a 1st round pick, otherwise I would think some team would've pulled the trigger on getting him by now. What are you basing that on? Itss always hard to judge 2 different players at 2 different positions. I feel Williams is a top 5 DT, certainly top 10. I dont think Ngakoue is a top 10 pass rusher. Now all of that said, I would gladly trade them in a one for one deal considering the teams makeup. We need a pass rusher. We have Lawrence, Tomlinson and Hill already on the inside. Top 5? He couldn’t get into the top 5 with an invitation. Players like Aaron Donald, Cameron Hayward, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner and Kenny Clark are far better. I could make an argument he’s not even in the top 10. Is he better than Fletcher Cox or Geno Atkins? I know they’re up in age, but are still very good players. Or how bout Grady Jarrett or Matt Ioannidis? I’ll even take the nose tackle from the Bengals DJ Reader over Williams. Williams is a good player, for some reason he became a better player for no good reason from the fans.
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Post by JoeyCush on Aug 4, 2020 9:18:00 GMT -5
The Jets werent going to Franchise LW and pay him 17M, he was gone after the season. For whatever reason, DG got schemed into giving up a 3rd.
Jaguars, from what it seems, have no problem paying Ngakoue 17M this year on the Franchise Tag. They will be compensated if they decide to trade him.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 4, 2020 9:47:41 GMT -5
The Jets werent going to Franchise LW and pay him 17M, he was gone after the season. For whatever reason, DG got schemed into giving up a 3rd. Jaguars, from what it seems, have no problem paying Ngakoue 17M this year on the Franchise Tag. They will be compensated if they decide to trade him. This is true. Also, The Jets weren't going to take anything less than a 3rd for LW since there was a good chance that he would sign a big contract with another team. Why would they take a draft pick that was less than a 3rd when there was a decent chance that they would receive a 3rd round comp pick for him?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 9:50:49 GMT -5
What are you basing that on? Itss always hard to judge 2 different players at 2 different positions. I feel Williams is a top 5 DT, certainly top 10. I dont think Ngakoue is a top 10 pass rusher. Now all of that said, I would gladly trade them in a one for one deal considering the teams makeup. We need a pass rusher. We have Lawrence, Tomlinson and Hill already on the inside. Top 5? He couldn’t get into the top 5 with an invitation. Players like Aaron Donald, Cameron Hayward, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner and Kenny Clark are far better. I could make an argument he’s not even in the top 10. Is he better than Fletcher Cox or Geno Atkins? I know they’re up in age, but are still very good players. Or how bout Grady Jarrett or Matt Ioannidis? I’ll even take the nose tackle from the Bengals DJ Reader over Williams. Williams is a good player, for some reason he became a better player for no good reason from the fans. That's fair. Maybe top 5 is overeating. I'd say top 10. The only issue is he doesnt get the QB sacks. He gets to him and collapses the pocket with the best of them though. To me that is what a guy in the middle should do. Collapse the pocket. He is a very strong DT. Those others you mention get the sacks though. And I'm one who hated the trade FYI. I would much rather have Ngakoue at $16m than William's at $17m this year.
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Post by JoeyCush on Aug 4, 2020 9:53:47 GMT -5
The Jets werent going to Franchise LW and pay him 17M, he was gone after the season. For whatever reason, DG got schemed into giving up a 3rd. Jaguars, from what it seems, have no problem paying Ngakoue 17M this year on the Franchise Tag. They will be compensated if they decide to trade him. This is true. Also, The Jets weren't going to take anything less than a 3rd for LW since there was a good chance that he would sign a big contract with another team. Why would they take a draft pick that was less than a 3rd when there was a decent chance that they would receive a 3rd round comp pick for him? Excellent point. Probably why DG had to throw in the extra conditional pick as well.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 4, 2020 10:09:37 GMT -5
Top 5? He couldn’t get into the top 5 with an invitation. Players like Aaron Donald, Cameron Hayward, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner and Kenny Clark are far better. I could make an argument he’s not even in the top 10. Is he better than Fletcher Cox or Geno Atkins? I know they’re up in age, but are still very good players. Or how bout Grady Jarrett or Matt Ioannidis? I’ll even take the nose tackle from the Bengals DJ Reader over Williams. Williams is a good player, for some reason he became a better player for no good reason from the fans. That's fair. Maybe top 5 is overeating. I'd say top 10. The only issue is he doesnt get the QB sacks. He gets to him and collapses the pocket with the best of them though. To me that is what a guy in the middle should do. Collapse the pocket. He is a very strong DT. Those others you mention get the sacks though. And I'm one who hated the trade FYI. I would much rather have Ngakoue at $16m than William's at $17m this year. I don't think many people would disagree with you regarding rather having Ngakoue instead of Williams, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the Jags would have traded Ngakoue for a 3rd round pick. Teams don't trade blue chip pass rushers for a bag of peanuts. In fact, a team might even shy away from a single first round pick for a player of Ngakoue's stature. There is no sure bet that a team could replace Ngakoue's production with a single 1st round pick.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 10:45:53 GMT -5
That's fair. Maybe top 5 is overeating. I'd say top 10. The only issue is he doesnt get the QB sacks. He gets to him and collapses the pocket with the best of them though. To me that is what a guy in the middle should do. Collapse the pocket. He is a very strong DT. Those others you mention get the sacks though. And I'm one who hated the trade FYI. I would much rather have Ngakoue at $16m than William's at $17m this year. I don't think many people would disagree with you regarding rather having Ngakoue instead of Williams, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the Jags would have traded Ngakoue for a 3rd round pick. Teams don't trade blue chip pass rushers for a bag of peanuts. In fact, a team might even shy away from a single first round pick for a player of Ngakoue's stature. There is no sure bet that a team could replace Ngakoue's production with a single 1st round pick. I love what Ngakoue could bring here, but calling him a blue chip pass rusher? He is an 8-10 sack guy. And the Jags had great talent around him most his career there on that Dline. You know Golden had 2 more sacks than Ngakoue did last year right? I think he can be a good-great pickup here and get us those 8-10-12 sacks in a nice rotation with Golden and Ximines and company, but he isnt a blue chip elite pass rusher. When people talk about how many snaps Golden played for us is how he got his 10 sacks last year, Ngakoue isnt far behind playing just under 800 snaps (75%) and getting 8 sacks. In fact, as I look at the stats and production, maybe I am talking myself out of him for the money he will command... Ngakoue 63 games, 37.5 sacks, 105 tackles, 14 FFs (Osi like with the slap fumbles) Golden 62 games, 29 sacks, 143 tackles, 6 FFs (better at run defense and tackling) Golden played a bunch of those games coming back from a major injury too where he basically put up nothing back in 2018. I am beyond glad we resigned Golden for so cheap.
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 4, 2020 10:50:08 GMT -5
Top 5? He couldn’t get into the top 5 with an invitation. Players like Aaron Donald, Cameron Hayward, Chris Jones, DeForest Buckner and Kenny Clark are far better. I could make an argument he’s not even in the top 10. Is he better than Fletcher Cox or Geno Atkins? I know they’re up in age, but are still very good players. Or how bout Grady Jarrett or Matt Ioannidis? I’ll even take the nose tackle from the Bengals DJ Reader over Williams. Williams is a good player, for some reason he became a better player for no good reason from the fans. That's fair. Maybe top 5 is overeating. I'd say top 10. The only issue is he doesnt get the QB sacks. He gets to him and collapses the pocket with the best of them though. To me that is what a guy in the middle should do. Collapse the pocket. He is a very strong DT. Those others you mention get the sacks though. And I'm one who hated the trade FYI. I would much rather have Ngakoue at $16m than William's at $17m this year. If you were GM for the Jags, what do you think you would need to get to trade him?
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Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,495
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Post by Eazy E on Aug 4, 2020 11:15:23 GMT -5
I think there is a good chance for him to be traded from the Jags. The Jags might force a franchise tag on him this year but why cant Ngakoue just say (and probably has) im sitting out this year unless you trade me. He could and the pandemic deal puts less pressure on him from the Jags fans to play. The Jags have less leverage because of the times. Ngakoue probably has less leverage as well. It will be interesting. I like him. I think if if we got him, he would be our best defensive player on day 1. Thats good enough for me.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,495
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Post by Eazy E on Aug 4, 2020 11:17:41 GMT -5
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Post by jb456 on Aug 4, 2020 11:33:54 GMT -5
I don't think many people would disagree with you regarding rather having Ngakoue instead of Williams, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the Jags would have traded Ngakoue for a 3rd round pick. Teams don't trade blue chip pass rushers for a bag of peanuts. In fact, a team might even shy away from a single first round pick for a player of Ngakoue's stature. There is no sure bet that a team could replace Ngakoue's production with a single 1st round pick. I love what Ngakoue could bring here, but calling him a blue chip pass rusher? He is an 8-10 sack guy. And the Jags had great talent around him most his career there on that Dline. You know Golden had 2 more sacks than Ngakoue did last year right? I think he can be a good-great pickup here and get us those 8-10-12 sacks in a nice rotation with Golden and Ximines and company, but he isnt a blue chip elite pass rusher. When people talk about how many snaps Golden played for us is how he got his 10 sacks last year, Ngakoue isnt far behind playing just under 800 snaps (75%) and getting 8 sacks. In fact, as I look at the stats and production, maybe I am talking myself out of him for the money he will command... Ngakoue 63 games, 37.5 sacks, 105 tackles, 14 FFs (Osi like with the slap fumbles) Golden 62 games, 29 sacks, 143 tackles, 6 FFs (better at run defense and tackling) Golden played a bunch of those games coming back from a major injury too where he basically put up nothing back in 2018. I am beyond glad we resigned Golden for so cheap. Ngakoue would get a big contract in FA. Golden had 2 + 10 sack seasons in only 2 of 5 seasons and couldn't even get a team interested in his services for $6M for 1 year. Plus Ngakoue is only 25 years old while golden in 29. Ngakoue could sign a 4 year contract and at the end of it be the same age as Golden is now. I'm all for Golden being a Giant this year but he has an injury history, has less sacks and half the forced fumbles. I wouldn't trade a 1st for Ngakoue but I wouldn't hate if the Giants picked him up in free agency... I don
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Aug 4, 2020 11:37:03 GMT -5
Why acquire a game changer when you can use cap space to extend Nick Gates? Duh.
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