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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 11:47:10 GMT -5
You mean that guy I never heard of and still can't think of his name? I meant a starter like Logan. That guy who's name you cant think of is 1 of the best young CBs in the league. The name's Bradbury, James Bradbury Totally shut down some big name receivers. It’s amazing how people here don’t know him. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 12:06:55 GMT -5
That's fair. Maybe top 5 is overeating. I'd say top 10. The only issue is he doesnt get the QB sacks. He gets to him and collapses the pocket with the best of them though. To me that is what a guy in the middle should do. Collapse the pocket. He is a very strong DT. Those others you mention get the sacks though. And I'm one who hated the trade FYI. I would much rather have Ngakoue at $16m than William's at $17m this year. If you were GM for the Jags, what do you think you would need to get to trade him? Id definitely try for a 1st. Not sure they would get it though. |
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Post by McCherry on Aug 4, 2020 12:07:56 GMT -5
That guy who's name you cant think of is 1 of the best young CBs in the league. The name's Bradbury, James Bradbury Totally shut down some big name receivers. It’s amazing how people here don’t know him. Man, you guys are bad at following threads. I was talking about the guy we signed recently from Indy. |
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 4, 2020 12:12:32 GMT -5
If you were GM for the Jags, what do you think you would need to get to trade him? Id definitely try for a 1st. Not sure they would get it though. Hard to say, I agree. The market seems to oddly not be there. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 12:48:52 GMT -5
I love what Ngakoue could bring here, but calling him a blue chip pass rusher? He is an 8-10 sack guy. And the Jags had great talent around him most his career there on that Dline. You know Golden had 2 more sacks than Ngakoue did last year right? I think he can be a good-great pickup here and get us those 8-10-12 sacks in a nice rotation with Golden and Ximines and company, but he isnt a blue chip elite pass rusher. When people talk about how many snaps Golden played for us is how he got his 10 sacks last year, Ngakoue isnt far behind playing just under 800 snaps (75%) and getting 8 sacks. In fact, as I look at the stats and production, maybe I am talking myself out of him for the money he will command... Ngakoue 63 games, 37.5 sacks, 105 tackles, 14 FFs (Osi like with the slap fumbles) Golden 62 games, 29 sacks, 143 tackles, 6 FFs (better at run defense and tackling) Golden played a bunch of those games coming back from a major injury too where he basically put up nothing back in 2018. I am beyond glad we resigned Golden for so cheap. Ngakoue would get a big contract in FA. Golden had 2 + 10 sack seasons in only 2 of 5 seasons and couldn't even get a team interested in his services for $6M for 1 year. Plus Ngakoue is only 25 years old while golden in 29. Ngakoue could sign a 4 year contract and at the end of it be the same age as Golden is now. I'm all for Golden being a Giant this year but he has an injury history, has less sacks and half the forced fumbles. I wouldn't trade a 1st for Ngakoue but I wouldn't hate if the Giants picked him up in free agency... I don And injury history? Golden had one big injury in 2018. He did start his career later though, at 24, but Im not suggesting he should get a big long contract like Ngakoue. I was just comparing the 2 stat wise. As you said, Golden has had 2 double digit sack seasons in 5., 1 cut early by a serious injury than carried on to the following season. Ngakoue has 1 in 4 years. Obviously I would rather have Yannick going forward, but when you compare production to cost, maybe its not as good a value as I thought. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 4, 2020 12:49:49 GMT -5
Id definitely try for a 1st. Not sure they would get it though. Hard to say, I agree. The market seems to oddly not be there. I really think Covid is affecting the market big time. |
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Post by Delicreep on Aug 4, 2020 12:51:29 GMT -5
Hard to say, I agree. The market seems to oddly not be there. I really think Covid is affecting the market big time. Could very well be. |
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Post by jb456 on Aug 4, 2020 13:39:51 GMT -5
Ngakoue would get a big contract in FA. Golden had 2 + 10 sack seasons in only 2 of 5 seasons and couldn't even get a team interested in his services for $6M for 1 year. Plus Ngakoue is only 25 years old while golden in 29. Ngakoue could sign a 4 year contract and at the end of it be the same age as Golden is now. I'm all for Golden being a Giant this year but he has an injury history, has less sacks and half the forced fumbles. I wouldn't trade a 1st for Ngakoue but I wouldn't hate if the Giants picked him up in free agency... I don And injury history? Golden had one big injury in 2018. He did start his career later though, at 24, but Im not suggesting he should get a big long contract like Ngakoue. I was just comparing the 2 stat wise. As you said, Golden has had 2 double digit sack seasons in 5., 1 cut early by a serious injury than carried on to the following season. Ngakoue has 1 in 4 years. Obviously I would rather have Yannick going forward, but when you compare production to cost, maybe its not as good a value as I thought. We are both pretty much agreeing here. We wouldn't want to trade a 1st and pay him a ton when you could pick him up in FA but would rather have him than Golden. To your point, and I have stated this myself several times, Golden is a freaking bargain.... |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2020 7:58:48 GMT -5
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 20, 2020 9:18:17 GMT -5
Trading for a guy we can't sign till after the season? Where have I seen this before?
In other words....No friggin way it'll happen.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 20, 2020 10:19:15 GMT -5
Hmm, that is definitely better than I thought but like MS said, no freaking way do you trade for a player you can't absolutely lock up. People are going nuts about trading a 3rd round pick for LW, they would show up at Gettleman's house with torches and pitchforks if the same scenario happens again... |
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2020 10:31:32 GMT -5
Our starting D-line is set. Can someone explain why this would be a good move?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2020 10:35:50 GMT -5
Hmm, that is definitely better than I thought but like MS said, no freaking way do you trade for a player you can't absolutely lock up. People are going nuts about trading a 3rd round pick for LW, they would show up at Gettleman's house with torches and pitchforks if the same scenario happens again... Agreed. It was dumb for DG to trade for Williams without a deal. It would be the same for this. Now if we can get him in here on a 5 year 80m deal? And a 2nd rounder? It might be something to consider. Of course, it all comes down to if Judge/Graham thinks he would fit our system. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2020 10:39:19 GMT -5
Our starting D-line is set. Can someone explain why this would be a good move? Set? Eh Golden here for a year. Ximines still a question mark. Fackrell is a rotational piece on a short term. Carter, meh. Ngakoue would instantly be our best pass rusher. Him and Golden on the outsides with Ximines and Fackrell cleaning up for 2020. After this year, he could be the only one left. That said, with the question about the cap after this season due to Covid and lack of fans, it might not be so wise to book long term big contracts. |
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Post by jb456 on Aug 20, 2020 10:42:31 GMT -5
Our starting D-line is set. Can someone explain why this would be a good move? I wouldn't agree with making a move like this given the how young the giants are and the likelihood of reaching the playoff in the upcoming season and the upcoming 2021 salary cap reduction. On the other hand, a player like Ngakoue would certainly improve the Giants pass rush, an area in which the Giants are below average. In addition, an improved pass rush would help the Giants secondary, which is already questionable and razor thin. If the Giants were 1 or 2 pieces away from truly competing, maybe a move like this could work. Right now, a move like this doesn't make any sense at all... |
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2020 10:45:51 GMT -5
Our starting D-line is set. Can someone explain why this would be a good move? Set? Eh Golden here for a year. Ximines still a question mark. Fackrell is a rotational piece on a short term. Carter, meh. Ngakoue would instantly be our best pass rusher. Him and Golden on the outsides with Ximines and Fackrell cleaning up for 2020. After this year, he could be the only one left. That said, with the question about the cap after this season due to Covid and lack of fans, it might not be so wise to book long term big contracts. What makes you think he can play with his hand off the ground. He is a 4-3 DE not an 3-4 OLB . Why should Dave think any different? Every edge rusher he has is a bonafide 3-4 OLB |
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Post by jb456 on Aug 20, 2020 10:51:27 GMT -5
Hmm, that is definitely better than I thought but like MS said, no freaking way do you trade for a player you can't absolutely lock up. People are going nuts about trading a 3rd round pick for LW, they would show up at Gettleman's house with torches and pitchforks if the same scenario happens again... Agreed. It was dumb for DG to trade for Williams without a deal. It would be the same for this. Now if we can get him in here on a 5 year 80m deal? And a 2nd rounder? It might be something to consider. Of course, it all comes down to if Judge/Graham thinks he would fit our system. I can see where you are coming from about possibly doing something like this if a deal could be worked out. I mentioned in my last post that I wouldn't be in favor of this deal given where the Giants are at in the rebuilding process and the reduced cap in 2021. Perhaps you are right though, if a reasonable 5 year deal could be worked out, it could benefit the team long term. The only reason why I don't think it could be is that when players generally act in this manner, they aren't looking for reasonable deals. Hell, he could pull the same crap 2 years into his next deal if the cap goes up and he doesn't think he is making enough bank... |
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Post by jimmieray on Aug 20, 2020 10:56:39 GMT -5
Set? Eh Golden here for a year. Ximines still a question mark. Fackrell is a rotational piece on a short term. Carter, meh. Ngakoue would instantly be our best pass rusher. Him and Golden on the outsides with Ximines and Fackrell cleaning up for 2020. After this year, he could be the only one left. That said, with the question about the cap after this season due to Covid and lack of fans, it might not be so wise to book long term big contracts. What makes you think he can play with his hand off the ground. He is a 4-3 DE not an 3-4 OLB . Why should Dave think any different? Every edge rusher he has is a bonafide 3-4 OLB Not that I'm clamoring for the guy, but there was talk about having a hybrid front or switching from 3-4 to 4-3 for certain opponents, from our new coaching staff quite some time ago. I'm not sure how our currently classified DEs adapt to that successfully. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2020 11:10:43 GMT -5
Set? Eh Golden here for a year. Ximines still a question mark. Fackrell is a rotational piece on a short term. Carter, meh. Ngakoue would instantly be our best pass rusher. Him and Golden on the outsides with Ximines and Fackrell cleaning up for 2020. After this year, he could be the only one left. That said, with the question about the cap after this season due to Covid and lack of fans, it might not be so wise to book long term big contracts. What makes you think he can play with his hand off the ground. He is a 4-3 DE not an 3-4 OLB . Why should Dave think any different? Every edge rusher he has is a bonafide 3-4 OLB He most certainly can and has played as a stand up pass rusher. He played a mix, in college and NFL. But I did say its up to Judge and Graham to say if he will fit what they are trying to do. |
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Post by snyder55 on Aug 20, 2020 15:42:09 GMT -5
Is Nagkoue better than Clowney ? We might be able to sign Clowney without giving up draft picks. Don't know if either of these guys wants to come to a perennial loser. Were probably going to be one of the worse teams this season. I'm not giving up any high draft picks. people should take a long hard look at Clowney who is a very good football player who seems to play solely for the money but unfortunately too many of them do the same... |
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2020 20:04:50 GMT -5
What makes you think he can play with his hand off the ground. He is a 4-3 DE not an 3-4 OLB . Why should Dave think any different? Every edge rusher he has is a bonafide 3-4 OLB Not that I'm clamoring for the guy, but there was talk about having a hybrid front or switching from 3-4 to 4-3 for certain opponents, from our new coaching staff quite some time ago. I'm not sure how our currently classified DEs adapt to that successfully. X and Golden can play with their hand on the ground. Did last year. Ngakoue has not been an OLB |
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2020 20:06:42 GMT -5
What makes you think he can play with his hand off the ground. He is a 4-3 DE not an 3-4 OLB . Why should Dave think any different? Every edge rusher he has is a bonafide 3-4 OLB He most certainly can and has played as a stand up pass rusher. He played a mix, in college and NFL. But I did say its up to Judge and Graham to say if he will fit what they are trying to do. He was a 4-3 DE his entire NFL career . The main reason JPP is not a giant . He plays with his hand on the ground. Vernon could do both |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2020 20:22:21 GMT -5
He most certainly can and has played as a stand up pass rusher. He played a mix, in college and NFL. But I did say its up to Judge and Graham to say if he will fit what they are trying to do. He was a 4-3 DE his entire NFL career . The main reason JPP is not a giant . He plays with his hand on the ground. Vernon could do both Respectfully disagree. The Jags are my home away from home team. I've seen him play up as well. The Giants have the money to pay Ngakoue ($61,887,217 million in projected cap space per OverTheCap), and a 3-4 defensive scheme that would help Ngakoue flourish as a stand-up pass-rusher. From nearly every angle, the Giants fit for Ngakoue if he hits the open market. www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/4-teams-that-make-sense-as-destinations-for-yannick-ngakoue-if-he-doesnt-remain-with-the-jaguarsHe was mostly used with his hand in the dirt but can also play standing up. He did in college too. That said, its still moot if they can't get the contract before the trade. “This is a guy that is really multifaceted, and we can play in some 3-4 looks obviously with Josh Allen and him and I think he offers a bunch of versatility on our defense with those two guys and Yannick [Ngakoue],” said Caldwell following round one of the 2020 NFL Draft. |
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Post by TEM on Aug 20, 2020 20:55:36 GMT -5
I do not see what advantage we gain with him. It is not like he is a double digit sack producer . He had 8 sacks last year 41 tackles and 15 QB hits. Rotating Carter and X produced 9 sacks and 70 tackles and 22 QB hits . I do not see the production for the cost. 8 sacks and 41 tackles are not 18 million numbers. IMO 19-22 a year he would want. ( he is tagged right now for 17.9 ) The production is not there. 8 sacks and 90 -100 tackles . Maybe. But 41 is his best year. He can't tackle. Liquidtension Complains about Carter can't tackle with his 88 over 2 . Pay Yannick 20.5 for his 122 tackles over 4 years 30.5 per year Average. . It would make him go off the rails and I would agree with him. He ain't worth the price of the tag let alone 20 million and draft picks He has 122 tackles over 4 years 3029 snaps. 25 snaps pre tackle compared to Carter's 13.2, X's 20 and Golden's 15 per snap. Who holds the edge when he is on the field because he can't tackle. Ballantine? He is one of the reasons the Jags D was a sieve. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 20, 2020 21:03:06 GMT -5
I do not see what advantage we gain with him. It is not like he is a double digit sack producer . He had 8 sacks last year 41 tackles and 15 QB hits. Rotating Carter and X produced 9 sacks and 70 tackles and 22 QB hits . I do not see the production for the cost. 8 sacks and 41 tackles are not IMO 19-22 a year he would want. ( he is tagged right now for 17.9 ) The production is not there. 8 sacks and 90 -100 tackles . Maybe. But 41 is his beat year. He can't tackle. Liquidtension Complains about Carter can't tackle with his 88. Pay Yannick 20.5 for his 41 tackles . It would make him go off the rails and I would agree with him. He ain't worth the price of the tag let alone 20 million and draft picks I think he is better than his numbers but I agree. When I dove into the stats I was surprised. Ive seen him play quite a bit and love his play as a pass rusher. But stats are comparable to Golden. I still would pull the trigger at $15-$16m per though. He is an Osi type IMO. Maybe Golden can play Tuck. |
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Post by jimmieray on Aug 21, 2020 6:24:13 GMT -5
Not that I'm clamoring for the guy, but there was talk about having a hybrid front or switching from 3-4 to 4-3 for certain opponents, from our new coaching staff quite some time ago. I'm not sure how our currently classified DEs adapt to that successfully. X and Golden can play with their hand on the ground. Did last year. Ngakoue has not been an OLB I thought he could be a better DE option, if they indeed go 4-3 against certain teams (as has been proposed). In our base 3-4, I agree he might not be an upgrade if he's moved back to OLB. Again, I'm not pushing for him, but just trying to point out where he could be a benefit. I believe he is known to be disruptive and has good forced fumble numbers. |
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Post by TEM on Aug 21, 2020 6:36:21 GMT -5
X and Golden can play with their hand on the ground. Did last year. Ngakoue has not been an OLB I thought he could be a better DE option, if they indeed go 4-3 against certain teams (as has been proposed). In our base 3-4, I agree he might not be an upgrade if he's moved back to OLB. Again, I'm not pushing for him, but just trying to point out where he could be a benefit. I believe he is known to be disruptive and has good forced fumble numbers. Again IMO: makes no sense. Have a 20 million dollar player on the bench in a base 3-4 when when we have guys that can do both. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 30, 2020 5:54:58 GMT -5
As I said no 1st rounder was required. Interested to see the contract they draw up.  |
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 30, 2020 6:40:06 GMT -5
outside of the contract they will need to sign him to, not a terrible deal for the Vikes. He's going to cost them a pretty penny though.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 30, 2020 12:16:49 GMT -5
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