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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 8:47:12 GMT -5
Barkley isnt as good as they hoped he would be, but last night the Steelers knew we were running when we were. He is way too easily taken out of games. This isnt the first time. That said, he also drops passes too much and cant pick up the blitz to protect the QB. Those are 100% legitimate beefs you can not blame the OL for. Didn’t he only drop one? Then made the second best catch of the game. There is more good then bad in his receiving game. He doesn’t pick up blitzes well though. I loved the pick initially but our team isn’t set up correctly yet for him to meet his expectations. Taking a RB#2 was a mistake. We could have traded that pick but Gettleman admitted he wasn’t taking offers and answering the phone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 8:48:53 GMT -5
I thought it was a massive failure of scheme. Its like we forgot - oh yeah the steelers could just send the swarm in to totally take out barkley. dude was crushed every time right after he got handed the ball, there wasnt even a chance in hell.
even OJ Simpson reportedly said he couldnt have run with that oline performance. lol
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 16, 2020 8:54:13 GMT -5
Barkley isnt as good as they hoped he would be, but last night the Steelers knew we were running when we were. He is way too easily taken out of games. This isnt the first time. That said, he also drops passes too much and cant pick up the blitz to protect the QB. Those are 100% legitimate beefs you can not blame the OL for. Didn’t he only drop one? Then made the second best catch of the game. There is more good then bad in his receiving game. He doesn’t pick up blitzes well though. I loved the pick initially but our team isn’t set up correctly yet for him to meet his expectations. Taking a RB#2 was a mistake. We could have traded that pick but Gettleman admitted he wasn’t taking offers and answering the phone. He has dropped a lot through out his career. I wouldnt call his catching ability a strength. Now when he does catch it, and has open space? He is a threat for sure.
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Post by giantsrock on Sept 16, 2020 9:16:57 GMT -5
His style of running will never consistently win games in the NFL No, it's all Shurmurs fault for not using him properly. Oh wait......nevermind.
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Post by SG88 on Sept 16, 2020 9:27:56 GMT -5
“We had a commitment and we weren’t going to be bashful about that commitment,’’ coach Mike Tomlin said. “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever that they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people … and we did. We did what thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game.’’ His team went all in on stopping 26 like they were supposed to. Pittsburgh is one of those teams that can take someone totally out of a game if they have to. Instead of blaming Barkley, we need to give Pittsburgh props for what they did to stop him. Tip your hat to them and now it is on to Chicago.
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 16, 2020 9:28:26 GMT -5
on that play....sorry I was not being specific. I was going on a general view of the oline performance I would think in general terms, a new line in it's first game needs to concentrate on pass protection first, and the run blocking would not look adequate at most times. But the back can see blown assignments and extra rushers coming in much better than the QB, there are decisions and adjustments he can make to not have it look so disasterous. Thank you..that was informative and helpful. So running plays lose the back as a defender but gain him for passing plays? Makes sense! Is it common to drop a slot receiver and add a tight end to improve the pass defense as well.. or is that irrelevant?
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Post by jimmieray on Sept 16, 2020 11:14:30 GMT -5
I would think in general terms, a new line in it's first game needs to concentrate on pass protection first, and the run blocking would not look adequate at most times. But the back can see blown assignments and extra rushers coming in much better than the QB, there are decisions and adjustments he can make to not have it look so disasterous. Thank you..that was informative and helpful. So running plays lose the back as a defender but gain him for passing plays? Makes sense! Is it common to drop a slot receiver and add a tight end to improve the pass defense as well.. or is that irrelevant? Well, I meant a line in development may need to concentrate more on pass protection early on (you were asking why a line would look so much better at pass pro than run blocking), because the QB has more on his plate and can't always see what's right in front of him like a RB. But yes, of course a back or extra TE CAN help enormously with pass pro - but obviously those seemingly simple tasks are not Barkley or Engram's forte.
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Post by jmike on Sept 16, 2020 12:20:45 GMT -5
“We had a commitment and we weren’t going to be bashful about that commitment,’’ coach Mike Tomlin said. “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever that they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people … and we did. We did what thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game.’’ His team went all in on stopping 26 like they were supposed to. Pittsburgh is one of those teams that can take someone totally out of a game if they have to. Instead of blaming Barkley, we need to give Pittsburgh props for what they did to stop him. Tip your hat to them and now it is on to Chicago. Agreed. It was more about the Pittsburgh D than Barkley or the OL.
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Post by krappdetector on Sept 17, 2020 12:45:35 GMT -5
Thank you..that was informative and helpful. So running plays lose the back as a defender but gain him for passing plays? Makes sense! Is it common to drop a slot receiver and add a tight end to improve the pass defense as well.. or is that irrelevant? Well, I meant a line in development may need to concentrate more on pass protection early on (you were asking why a line would look so much better at pass pro than run blocking), because the QB has more on his plate and can't always see what's right in front of him like a RB. But yes, of course a back or extra TE CAN help enormously with pass pro - but obviously those seemingly simple tasks are not Barkley or Engram's forte.Thanks.. I'm still learning stuff. But even I noticed the bolded!
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Post by jaymas on Sept 17, 2020 14:16:25 GMT -5
I think Saquon's rookie year is proof enough that he is absolutely a feature, every down back. It's not as if that didn't happen. He also happened to be better in pass protection his rookie year.
We had one game, if he struggles with these same things through the first quarter of the year and there's no signs in those games of it getting better, I'll be worried. Until that point, I've seen enough of the guy and trust his ability enough to think that he'll correct things. I also trust this coaching staff to help him do that.
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Post by jmike on Sept 17, 2020 14:47:11 GMT -5
I think Saquon's rookie year is proof enough that he is absolutely a feature, every down back. It's not as if that didn't happen. He also happened to be better in pass protection his rookie year. We had one game, if he struggles with these same things through the first quarter of the year and there's no signs in those games of it getting better, I'll be worried. Until that point, I've seen enough of the guy and trust his ability enough to think that he'll correct things. I also trust this coaching staff to help him do that. Disagree. Still not there yet, too many holes in his game. 37.5% of his career rushing yards came on 22 carries.
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Post by thetruth on Sept 17, 2020 14:53:16 GMT -5
I think Saquon's rookie year is proof enough that he is absolutely a feature, every down back. It's not as if that didn't happen. He also happened to be better in pass protection his rookie year. We had one game, if he struggles with these same things through the first quarter of the year and there's no signs in those games of it getting better, I'll be worried. Until that point, I've seen enough of the guy and trust his ability enough to think that he'll correct things. I also trust this coaching staff to help him do that. Disagree. Still not there yet, too many holes in his game. 37.5% of his career rushing yards came on 22 carries. Vision is an issue and im not sure it can be developed. Hope it does, hes a good kid.
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Post by ocgiant on Sept 17, 2020 15:16:01 GMT -5
Never thought I'd see a thread so critical of SB. To me, there is a correlation here if OL sucked on run blocking so will Barkely.
It was a concern in the draft last year with the Giants not taking a center instead they preferred to gamble, risk or whatever it is now proving it to be the wrong decision and they are stuck with it.
The number of times Barkley was hit in the back field has now made him too predictable. So he may not be an every down back instead find ways to get him the ball in space with a pitch or a little swing pass. The OC has got to throw some wrinkles in there for SB or it's going to be more of the same result. There is too much talent not be utilized it's a shame to see it wasted.
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Post by lt56 on Sept 17, 2020 15:17:00 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?!
So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course).
Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler!
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Post by thetruth on Sept 17, 2020 15:22:39 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! The offensive blocking scheme didn't make sense. Had Engram on TJ Watt on more than a few occasions. Not as a double, im talking 1v1 pass pro Not to mention, I think Pitts had the Giants key on the run game, ive never seen anything like that. We also only ran the ball under center, threw the ball exclusively in shot-gun. Weird
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 15:30:57 GMT -5
drafting Barkley to fix our running problems was dealing with the problem in reverse order, simple answer is if you can't block you can't run, you remember last year same thing, problem not fixed.......yet..
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 15:38:10 GMT -5
a coaches job is to find a way to get the best out a player and IMO they aren't doing a good job of that with Barkley...
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 15:48:43 GMT -5
as great a RB as Barkley is we are seeing the reason why the Giants shouldn't have drafted him, the team simply isn't ready for a RB like him when we can't open holes for him, we're at least 2 years away from benefitting from a RB like Barkley....
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 15:54:38 GMT -5
“We had a commitment and we weren’t going to be bashful about that commitment,’’ coach Mike Tomlin said. “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever that they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people … and we did. We did what thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game.’’ in simple terms Mike out coached us....
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 15:58:11 GMT -5
Never thought I'd see a thread so critical of SB. To me, there is a correlation here if OL sucked on run blocking so will Barkely. It was a concern in the draft last year with the Giants not taking a center instead they preferred to gamble, risk or whatever it is now proving it to be the wrong decision and they are stuck with it. The number of times Barkley was hit in the back field has now made him too predictable. So he may not be an every down back instead find ways to get him the ball in space with a pitch or a little swing pass. The OC has got to throw some wrinkles in there for SB or it's going to be more of the same result. There is too much talent not be utilized it's a shame to see it wasted. I guess people are just unhappy about the fact that Barkley can't carry this whole team on his back....
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Post by jmike on Sept 17, 2020 16:06:01 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?! So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course). Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler! That is not an uncommon blocking scheme at all. Block down, clean up the backside guy with the playside guard. Hell, I bet they do that stuff in high school. Zietler took it flat along the line while Dupree went upfield. Turned into a bad angle. I personally think it works better when the guard steps deep, because it is easier to crash down on the backside going flat than kick out on one going upfield, particularly someone as quick as Dupree. If the QB is under center, you have to go flat, shotgun gives you options. Looks like it was just poorly executed by Zeitler to me, nothing wrong with the play.
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Post by jb456 on Sept 17, 2020 16:34:48 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?! So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course). Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler! The #2 RB in the draft must block or he isn't worth the selection at #2. There was only 1 game so far so I hope Barkley can improve and the Oline can get on the same page. Also, Zeitler has been a good guard. Did he have a bad game? Yup, but he was one of the few bright spots last year. If Zeitler continues to have issues than the Giants will have to take a hard look at him but let's not get carried away and throw away one of the better Guards in the league after 1 bad game. Barkley had a HISTORICALLY bad game (6 yards on 15 carries, AND bad blocking), should the Giants throw Barkley in the trash?
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 17, 2020 16:53:48 GMT -5
“We had a commitment and we weren’t going to be bashful about that commitment,’’ coach Mike Tomlin said. “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever that they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people … and we did. We did what thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game.’’ in simple terms Mike out coached us.... I think having better players and a significantly better team helped a lot.
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Post by GameTime on Sept 17, 2020 20:19:34 GMT -5
maybe Barkley is "too focused" on becoming better and better. You know....thinking too much. A guy like him just needs to play ball. Loke when he caught that jet sweep/fake/screen...lol.
Of course not saying he shouldn't try to get better but he needs to let the pass blocking game flow. And he need to put a ****ing hat on someone!!
Ease up SB.....let the game come to you!!
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Post by DandyDon on Sept 17, 2020 20:33:43 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?! So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course). Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler! There was also an exact opposite play where Hernandez pulled and another rusher followed behind him untouched, tackling SB multiple yards behind the line. The horrible run-blocking is not any single players fault. But every opposing team is going to do the exact same thing to take SB out of the game. I hope our HC can deal with that.
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Post by titowooten on Sept 18, 2020 7:48:58 GMT -5
I honestly hope we don't resign him. But since he isn't a head case like Odell I guess we won't be trading him either. unless he has some kind of amazing rest of the season i don't think we should pick up his 5th year option either. way too many good to very good RBs in the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds to spend $15 million a year on a RB who should be the best player on the team. granted we'd be no better off with darnold either and there's still hope for barkley with coaching and scheming but he's definitely been a pretty big disappointment compared to how gettleman was describing him as the second coming and a first ballot hall of famer.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 8:08:33 GMT -5
I honestly hope we don't resign him. But since he isn't a head case like Odell I guess we won't be trading him either. unless he has some kind of amazing rest of the season i don't think we should pick up his 5th year option either. way too many good to very good RBs in the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds to spend $15 million a year on a RB who should be the best player on the team. granted we'd be no better off with darnold either and there's still hope for barkley with coaching and scheming but he's definitely been a pretty big disappointment compared to how gettleman was describing him as the second coming and a first ballot hall of famer. Very little downside in picking up the 5th year option unless he completely shits the bed. I don't think it would be wise at this point to invest in him long term with his spotty performance to date, but the 5th year option is a good one. You at least keep him through his expected shelf life before performance begins to decline. Then you can reach a decision at that point. Rarely has it been shown that investing in any RB long term is a wise use of funds, but Barkley is talented enough that it might be worth it for him if he cleans up his issues.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 9:38:32 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?! So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course). Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler! This is on our QB. He’s got to read this and audible out.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 9:53:26 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?! So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course). Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler! This is on our QB. He’s got to read this and audible out. IDK....they had the TE and the RG kicking out on the overloaded backside guys. Smith executed, Zeitler did not. I don't think you audible because you expect your teammates to fail to execute.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 18, 2020 9:59:28 GMT -5
That is a very complicated block scheme against a defense with that speed and physicality. It was almost asking for catastrophic break downs. Hats off to the Steelers but I wouldn't let our OL or coaches off the hook.
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