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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 9:59:44 GMT -5
Actually had a good lane there if Zeitler makes his block. Good play for the alignment, poorly executed by only one player. Dupree was killing any head up blocking, so you get a guy with momentum to take him out of the play. Good theoretical adjustment. Make him look naked, he gets aggressive, crash him with the playside guard. I kinda like the plan, just have to get to your block.
An offensive line needs 5 players executing to succeed and only one player not to fail.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 10:00:55 GMT -5
That is a very complicated block scheme against a defense with that speed and physicality. It was almost asking for catastrophic break downs. Hats off to the Steelers but I wouldn't let our OL or coaches off the hook. It really isn't complicated at all. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 10:04:47 GMT -5
This is on our QB. He’s got to read this and audible out. IDK....they had the TE and the RG kicking out on the overloaded backside guys. Smith executed, Zeitler did not. I don't think you audible because you expect your teammates to fail to execute. Yeah. I don’t agree. That play had very little chance of working. Maybe against a typical OLB but I think they’re expecting way too much of their RG vs Dupree. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 10:14:33 GMT -5
Look...run that same play out of the offset single back. So Barkley is in the same place but Jones is under center. Dupree will read his key(Thomas) which will show run to inside or outside the far tackle. In that formation Barkley would have already been moving towards the lane before he gets the ball. So Dupree would read his key, flatten along the line to meet SB at the hole for a tackle. But the Guard is taking the same line straight at him, either stopping him or pushing him out wide and on a bad angle for the play. In the shotgun, Dupree will do just what he did, since run or pass there doesn't matter he's going to the same spot. Reads his key to see who he is going after but taking the same upfield angle. Zeitler should not have taken the flat and kicked out deep because they were in shotgun. If Dupree ends up going flat, Smith is there to clean him up instead. Leaves the other backside unblocked, but he is further away from the play and SB would have already gotten 4 yards before he could get there even if he read it perfectly from the snap.
Mistakes on that play are Zietler taking a bad angle given the situation and calling that play out of the shotgun. I would have run it out of single back without offset. Will have the QB and RB moving away from the backside overload at the snap, giving Dupree further to go and Zeitler better positioning and more time to make a block.
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Post by DandyDon on Sept 18, 2020 10:16:30 GMT -5
IDK....they had the TE and the RG kicking out on the overloaded backside guys. Smith executed, Zeitler did not. I don't think you audible because you expect your teammates to fail to execute. Yeah. I don’t agree. That play had very little chance of working. Maybe against a typical OLB but I think they’re expecting way too much of their RG vs Dupree. I agree it's probably not the best plan. But if he would have executed it instead of just running by the defender it probably would have worked. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 10:19:19 GMT -5
Schematically, what I would like to see the Giants do to help SB is have him moving forward at the snap. Less shotgun runs and more plays under center. SB is spending too much time standing still(whether from his own hesitation or play design), which IMO is a recipe for disaster until this OL gets it together.
I would like to see Barkley stop standing and looking before running. I think by having him move at the snap more often, it will begin to become more innate to his running overall.
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 10:20:42 GMT -5
IDK....they had the TE and the RG kicking out on the overloaded backside guys. Smith executed, Zeitler did not. I don't think you audible because you expect your teammates to fail to execute. Yeah. I don’t agree. That play had very little chance of working. Maybe against a typical OLB but I think they’re expecting way too much of their RG vs Dupree. If you don't think your guard can make that block, you shouldn't have him on the field. That was basic stuff. But again, no way would I have run that out of shotgun. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 10:21:46 GMT -5
Yeah. I don’t agree. That play had very little chance of working. Maybe against a typical OLB but I think they’re expecting way too much of their RG vs Dupree. I agree it's probably not the best plan. But if he would have executed it instead of just running by the defender it probably would have worked. Well that’s a familiar refrain. If the players execute the way they’re supposed to..... But no, there are times when a call has a very small chance of succeeding. That’s what audibles are for. Now if you’re telling me that the TE shouldn’t have gone in motion and maybe got a shot on Dupree and Zeitler was supposed to clean up well, then maybe that’s a different story. But as this play went down vs a guy like Dupree, I think the QB has to consider a different option. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 10:25:40 GMT -5
I agree it's probably not the best plan. But if he would have executed it instead of just running by the defender it probably would have worked. Well that’s a familiar refrain. If the players execute the way they’re supposed to..... But no, there are times when a call has a very small chance of succeeding. That’s what audibles are for. Now if you’re telling me that the TE shouldn’t have gone in motion and maybe got a shot a Dupree and Zeier was supposed to clean up well, then maybe that’s a different story. But as this play went down vs A guy like Dupree, well, I think the QB has to consider a different option. Problem was, Dupree was beating head up blocking, so they tried something else. If TE stayed head up on him, same thing would have happened. With Zietler going flat, maybe Thomas could have kicked out and forced him down, but that is a tough play and angle in that defensive alignment. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 10:37:50 GMT -5
Well that’s a familiar refrain. If the players execute the way they’re supposed to..... But no, there are times when a call has a very small chance of succeeding. That’s what audibles are for. Now if you’re telling me that the TE shouldn’t have gone in motion and maybe got a shot a Dupree and Zeier was supposed to clean up well, then maybe that’s a different story. But as this play went down vs A guy like Dupree, well, I think the QB has to consider a different option. Problem was, Dupree was beating head up blocking, so they tried something else. If TE stayed head up on him, same thing would have happened. With Zietler going flat, maybe Thomas could have kicked out and forced him down, but that is a tough play and angle in that defensive alignment. What? Didn’t you once call me out, I think the word you used might have been ignorant, for not liking the gameplan saying how do I know? Asking me if I was in the locker room? Hmmm. Times have changed. |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 18, 2020 10:39:42 GMT -5
Barkley is NOT the issue! Is he Blocking the best? NO! However, did you draft him #2 in the draft to BLOCK or to run the damn Football?! So Tiki Barber running his mouth as well as others in the media and some fans want to try and make Barkley is complete GARBAGE but as a long time Giants fans it doesn't surprise me. Giants Fans always at some point turn on and start to attack its Star Players (other than LT Of course). Fix that Line! Zeitler is stealing just as much as Nate Solder is! $12 Million this year, another $14 Million next year and he haven't done a damn thing since that trade but nobody watches Interior Play much I guess. Your right Guard needs to be a Big Nasty Mauler and Run Block should be his strength. I hope Shane Lemiuex can develop into that guy, if not then we will need that Mauler! This is on our QB. He’s got to read this and audible out. Audible to what? Dupree had an open shot at the backfield, he would've leveled Jones. The only one who had a chance to slow down Dupree was Thomas, who helped Hernandez block the interior lineman. I don't know who the responsibility fell to, but it doesn't appear that Zeitler was in any position to make the block as Yates is alluding to in the tweet. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 10:49:04 GMT -5
This is on our QB. He’s got to read this and audible out. Audible to what? Dupree had an open shot at the backfield, he would've leveled Jones. The only one who had a chance to slow down Dupree was Thomas, who helped Hernandez block the interior lineman. I don't know who the responsibility fell to, but it doesn't appear that Zeitler was in any position to make the block as Yates is alluding to in the tweet. I’m sorry but I don’t understand your point. Are you saying that it’s not a QB’s responsibility to audible out of a play that has very little chance of success? |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 18, 2020 10:58:47 GMT -5
Audible to what? Dupree had an open shot at the backfield, he would've leveled Jones. The only one who had a chance to slow down Dupree was Thomas, who helped Hernandez block the interior lineman. I don't know who the responsibility fell to, but it doesn't appear that Zeitler was in any position to make the block as Yates is alluding to in the tweet. I’m sorry but I don’t understand your point. Are you saying that it’s not a QB’s responsibility to audible out of a play that has very little chance of success? Again, audible to what? If that became a pass play it would've been Jones dropped in the backfield instead of Barkley. |
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Post by jimmieray on Sept 18, 2020 11:11:48 GMT -5
Problem was, Dupree was beating head up blocking, so they tried something else. If TE stayed head up on him, same thing would have happened. With Zietler going flat, maybe Thomas could have kicked out and forced him down, but that is a tough play and angle in that defensive alignment. What? Didn’t you once call me out, I think the word you used might have been ignorant, for not liking the gameplan saying how do I know? Asking me if I was in the locker room? Hmmm. Times have changed. Well, technically SHE can't be in the locker room yet - like you can. And she's jealous... |
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 18, 2020 11:13:06 GMT -5
Problem was, Dupree was beating head up blocking, so they tried something else. If TE stayed head up on him, same thing would have happened. With Zietler going flat, maybe Thomas could have kicked out and forced him down, but that is a tough play and angle in that defensive alignment. What? Didn’t you once call me out, I think the word you used might have been ignorant, for not liking the gameplan saying how do I know? Asking me if I was in the locker room? Hmmm. Times have changed. That’s nothing. I’ve gotten in full out wars with some fans here. Now, we say hi in the hallways. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 11:36:36 GMT -5
Problem was, Dupree was beating head up blocking, so they tried something else. If TE stayed head up on him, same thing would have happened. With Zietler going flat, maybe Thomas could have kicked out and forced him down, but that is a tough play and angle in that defensive alignment. What? Didn’t you once call me out, I think the word you used might have been ignorant, for not liking the gameplan saying how do I know? Asking me if I was in the locker room? Hmmm. Times have changed. Sorry, I'm missing the relevance. I was talking about this particular play, not the game plan. I'm as ignorant of that as you are. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 11:40:58 GMT -5
What? Didn’t you once call me out, I think the word you used might have been ignorant, for not liking the gameplan saying how do I know? Asking me if I was in the locker room? Hmmm. Times have changed. Sorry, I'm missing the relevance. I was talking about this particular play, not the game plan. I'm as ignorant of that as you are. Yeah nice try. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 11:45:55 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm missing the relevance. I was talking about this particular play, not the game plan. I'm as ignorant of that as you are. Yeah nice try. I really don't understand what you mean or the relevance. Were your feelings hurt so bad that you are just grasping for anything to keep you afloat now? Sorry, didn't mean to leave a permanent scar. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 11:49:04 GMT -5
I’m sorry but I don’t understand your point. Are you saying that it’s not a QB’s responsibility to audible out of a play that has very little chance of success? Again, audible to what? If that became a pass play it would've been Jones dropped in the backfield instead of Barkley. Presumably when you audible it changes the play and the blocking scheme. No? |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 11:49:21 GMT -5
I really don't understand what you mean or the relevance. Were your feelings hurt so bad that you are just grasping for anything to keep you afloat now? Sorry, didn't mean to leave a permanent scar. Zzzzzzzzz |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 11:52:09 GMT -5
I really don't understand what you mean or the relevance. Were your feelings hurt so bad that you are just grasping for anything to keep you afloat now? Sorry, didn't mean to leave a permanent scar. Well versed in selective memory. But selective perception? That’s a true art form. Read what you wrote initially and tell me you’re not pretending to know their intent in much the same way anyone who comments on a game plan is. There. That explain it for you? Now go ahead. Get in your last word. I know how crucial that is. And then we can be done. |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 18, 2020 11:52:56 GMT -5
Again, audible to what? If that became a pass play it would've been Jones dropped in the backfield instead of Barkley. Presumably when you audible it changes the play and the blocking scheme. No? Maybe. But unless there was an option for Thomas to cover Dupree, nothing was going to work. |
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 18, 2020 11:55:48 GMT -5
This is on our QB. He’s got to read this and audible out. Audible to what? Dupree had an open shot at the backfield, he would've leveled Jones. The only one who had a chance to slow down Dupree was Thomas, who helped Hernandez block the interior lineman. I don't know who the responsibility fell to, but it doesn't appear that Zeitler was in any position to make the block as Yates is alluding to in the tweet. also you see Barkley hesitate in the 4 -5 seconds while bud comes around the line, you got to go forward faster than that. bud may have missed him if he did. jones should have sent the TE back to the left. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 11:57:01 GMT -5
Presumably when you audible it changes the play and the blocking scheme. No? Maybe. But unless there was an option for Thomas to cover Dupree, nothing was going to work. Okay. That’s what an audible does. It takes into consideration that the play as called is going to get blown up unless it’s changed. So you audible to a different play to change the outcome. This includes the blocking scheme. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 11:58:46 GMT -5
I really don't understand what you mean or the relevance. Were your feelings hurt so bad that you are just grasping for anything to keep you afloat now? Sorry, didn't mean to leave a permanent scar. Well versed in selective memory. But selective perception? That’s a true art form. Read what you wrote initially and tell me you’re not pretending to know their intent in much the same way anyone who comments on a game plan is. There. That explain it for you? Now go ahead. Get in your last word. I know how crucial that is. And then we can be done. Ah, I see what you mean now. Still don't see how I assumed their intent, just observed the play. They sent the playside guard after the backside LBer, wasn't much intent reading there. But whatever helps you recover, go with it. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 12:00:24 GMT -5
Presumably when you audible it changes the play and the blocking scheme. No? Maybe. But unless there was an option for Thomas to cover Dupree, nothing was going to work. Possible, but I don't see Thomas in a position to effectively do that based on where Dupree was lined up. I still think that play works if they weren't in shotgun. |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 18, 2020 12:00:27 GMT -5
Maybe. But unless there was an option for Thomas to cover Dupree, nothing was going to work. Okay. That’s what an audible does. It takes into consideration that the play as called is going to get blown up unless it’s changed. So you audible to a different play to change the outcome. This includes the blocking scheme. I don't know what the option was, but it looks like Thomas was the only one with a shot at Dupree. It's possible Smith was responsible for changing his assignment to stay over the LB but that just looked like no one accounted for the blitzing LB. |
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Post by Roswell on Sept 18, 2020 12:01:01 GMT -5
Well versed in selective memory. But selective perception? That’s a true art form. Read what you wrote initially and tell me you’re not pretending to know their intent in much the same way anyone who comments on a game plan is. There. That explain it for you? Now go ahead. Get in your last word. I know how crucial that is. And then we can be done. Ah, I see what you mean now. Still don't see how I assumed their intent, just observed the play. They sent the playside guard after the backside LBer, wasn't much intent reading there. But whatever helps you recover, go with it. There you go. Good. Now we done? |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 18, 2020 12:01:15 GMT -5
Maybe. But unless there was an option for Thomas to cover Dupree, nothing was going to work. Possible, but I don't see Thomas in a position to effectively do that based on where Dupree was lined up. I still think that play works if they weren't in shotgun. Oh, he definitely could've at least chipped him to the outside or affected his angle. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 18, 2020 12:04:26 GMT -5
Maybe. But unless there was an option for Thomas to cover Dupree, nothing was going to work. Okay. That’s what an audible does. It takes into consideration that the play as called is going to get blown up unless it’s changed. So you audible to a different play to change the outcome. This includes the blocking scheme. Based on what Jones knew prior to the play, I can't see a reason to audible. It was a good blocking scheme for the situation, just wasn't executed well by one player. Maybe Zeitler simply isn't quick enough to make the play. OK, but then it should not have been called in the first place. Though based on what transpired, he was clearly quick enough to make the play, just didn't take a good angle to get there. If Dupree takes the same angle Zeitler played, Dupree is taken out of the play. |
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