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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 18:13:00 GMT -5
Do you think Judge would be ok with that? A 2-14, 3-13, 5-11 HC is a Lame Duck with a new GM. The next GM may have a diffrent view on the direction of the team than JJ wants to go in . With a 2-14 .... 5-11 record the HC has little amo to tell the GM what he wants. If I am Joe Judge I claimer for the owner to keep Dave,. Just on the fact they are both on the same page on the direction of the team. Right now it is symbiotic. It may not be with a change. There is no way we pick a new HC after just one year and Covid. DG however may be gone and the new GM will have to accept JJ has 3 years to prove his worth You missed my point completely. Where did I even imply that Judge would get fired after this season.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 16, 2020 18:15:53 GMT -5
We don't know (except for the Broncos rumor), but more importantly Dave doesn't know, because he told his people not to answer the phone. I guess I have to post this again since you did not read it . I want to nip this in the bud once and for all. What were these we want the #2 pick GMs doing for the 100 Days between the SB and the Draft? Were they waiting for the last 15 minuets before they were set to pounce? That whole he would not take any call is the reason he did not make a trade is flawed. I am 100% sure the Eli / Rivers deal was hashed out way before draft day. So why did any of these "callers" chose not to work out a deal before draft day if they wanted a QB so bad. Ponder that. It is well documented that the Eli/Rivers trade was not hashed out before draft day.
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 16, 2020 18:18:03 GMT -5
If you put any GM in the same situation the giants were in when they took barkley 100% of them would have done the same thing .. it was the right pick at the right time .. who in their right mind would ever see the Giants offensive line being this bad 3 years consecutively.. the year before they took him our running game was putrid and Jennings and darkwa ( I believe ) were still able to get some decent runs in but they just lacked the breakaway speed .. barkley was the guy to change this however our line actually got worst .. I don't blame gettleman for taking SB , I blame gettleman for whiffing big time on the line .. No chance
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 16, 2020 18:20:23 GMT -5
Uh what? The the eli/rivers deal was clearly not worked out before draft day, otherwise the Chargers would not have drafted Eli and we would have had the #1 pick already. It was worked out. The Chargers wanted to make sure the got Rivers and the Picks. Just making the trade would not guaranteed Rivers. They had to wait to and see if rivers was available at the time the Giant picked at 4 because Oakland and Arizona picked before the Giants. This is completely false. The slightest bit of research would have told you that. Accorsi has been interviewed extensively about the trade.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 19:09:16 GMT -5
There is no way we pick a new HC after just one year and Covid. DG however may be gone and the new GM will have to accept JJ has 3 years to prove his worth You missed my point completely. Where did I even imply that Judge would get fired after this season. You expect too much from me Bro. Stupid Reading Comprehension
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 19:11:58 GMT -5
You are making an assumption that there was a good trade offer worthy of moving. Right. Keep believing that Gettlemen has never recieved a good draft offer in 7 years, right on How many trades in the top of the 1st even happen in the NFL? They do not happen often once every 2 years (1 in 20) . In top 5 once every 5 years 1 in 25. Top 2 picks to move up for history #2 Carson Wentz and 2017 4th round pick For 2016 1st round pick (8th overall) 2016 3rd round pick (77th overall) 2016 4th round pick (100th overall) 2017 1st round pick 2018 2nd round pick #2 RJ3 for 2012 # 6 pick , Second-Round Pick, 2013 First-Round Pick, 2014 First-Round Pick #1 Michael Vick. 2001 for # 5 pick 3rd round pick, 4th round pick , 2002 2nd round pick #1 Orlando Pace 1997 for the 6th pick, 3rd round pick 4th round pick , 7th round pick #1 Ki-Jana Carter 1995 for pick 5 and 36 #1 Russell Maryland 1991 for pick 11, a 2nd round pick and 3 players. David Howard, Eugene Lockhart, Ron Francis #1 Jeff George 1990 and a 4th round pick for pick 11 a 2nd round pick and (2 players) all pro LT Chris Hinton and all pro WR Andre ( bad moon) Risen #1 Irving Fryar 1984 for pick 16 , pick 28 a 10th round pick and 1985 5th round pick #1 Tom Cousineau 1979 For OJ Simpson and a 1st, 2 2nds and a 4th #1 Earl Campbell 1978 17th pick, a 2nd round pick 1979 3rd round pick and a 4th round pick and a player. ( 4 time All pro Jimmie Giles) #1 Steve Bartkowski and 3rd round pick for pick 3 and all pro LT George Kunz 11 in 168 picks 6.5% or once ever 17 years
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Post by TEM on Sept 16, 2020 19:12:44 GMT -5
I guess I have to post this again since you did not read it . I want to nip this in the bud once and for all. What were these we want the #2 pick GMs doing for the 100 Days between the SB and the Draft? Were they waiting for the last 15 minuets before they were set to pounce? That whole he would not take any call is the reason he did not make a trade is flawed. I am 100% sure the Eli / Rivers deal was hashed out way before draft day. So why did any of these "callers" chose not to work out a deal before draft day if they wanted a QB so bad. Ponder that. It is well documented that the Eli/Rivers trade was not hashed out before draft day. I never read that. How was it not. Because the Giants did not move up for Manning. Why? Why not just go for the 1st over all? Don't tell me this wasn't hashed out already. But the deal was reached so quickly that Smith felt confident the Giants already knew the phone was going to ring.
“It came together so fast. So fast. It was almost comical,” Smith said. “It was very much to my liking, and for fun I also threw out Osi’s name again for Ernie and he [outburst] and I laughed to break the ice because it was a dealbreaker. I said, ( as in AJ Smith the chargers GM ) ‘I’m just kidding Ernie, now how much time do we have? Minutes?’ and boom, there it was.”
“We knew what we were going to give,” Accorsi said. “We had our own meetings. We were willing to give them our No. 1 and the other various draft choices that we gave. We just weren’t giving up a pass rusher. So it didn’t make any difference. I needed about three seconds to make that decision.
“So when he asked for next year’s No. 1, I said yes right away, because we had already decided that was the going rate.”
www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/16/18295462/eli-manning-philip-rivers-trade-2004-nfl-draft-giants-chargers-aj-smith-ernie-accorsiThey knew the call was coming. How did they? There is no way this deal was not done behind the scenes. Accorsi might have been telling the truth about the deal . "Indirectly" he knew about and approved it. The deal was done before the Draft. Now getting back to my point. Where were all these " last minute callers" the days leading up to the Draft? The last minute call argument as a viable trade deal option is BS. The deals would have at least been intriguing and baited before the draft even started to be worthy of a phone pick up. You guys that are making the "no phone calls" argument are way too smart not to see the flaws with that narrative on your own.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Sept 16, 2020 19:16:13 GMT -5
Trade out and grab josh allen. We needed a qb badly . both other ny teams went qb and we didnt. Smh. Barkley was the safe pick in the he was pretty much gauranteed to be a good player. So to me gettleman wanted to play it safe. Josh Allen sucks.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 16, 2020 19:29:06 GMT -5
Trade out and grab josh allen. We needed a qb badly . both other ny teams went qb and we didnt. Smh. Barkley was the safe pick in the he was pretty much gauranteed to be a good player. So to me gettleman wanted to play it safe. Josh Allen sucks. We got the best QB in NY
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 16, 2020 21:01:51 GMT -5
It is well documented that the Eli/Rivers trade was not hashed out before draft day. I never read that. How was it not. Because the Giants did not move up for Manning. Why? Why not just go for the 1st over all? Don't tell me this wasn't hashed out already. But the deal was reached so quickly that Smith felt confident the Giants already knew the phone was going to ring.
“It came together so fast. So fast. It was almost comical,” Smith said. “It was very much to my liking, and for fun I also threw out Osi’s name again for Ernie and he [outburst] and I laughed to break the ice because it was a dealbreaker. I said, ( as in AJ Smith the chargers GM ) ‘I’m just kidding Ernie, now how much time do we have? Minutes?’ and boom, there it was.”
“We knew what we were going to give,” Accorsi said. “We had our own meetings. We were willing to give them our No. 1 and the other various draft choices that we gave. We just weren’t giving up a pass rusher. So it didn’t make any difference. I needed about three seconds to make that decision.
“So when he asked for next year’s No. 1, I said yes right away, because we had already decided that was the going rate.”
www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/16/18295462/eli-manning-philip-rivers-trade-2004-nfl-draft-giants-chargers-aj-smith-ernie-accorsiThey knew the call was coming. How did they? There is no way this deal was not done behind the scenes. Accorsi might have been telling the truth about the deal . "Indirectly" he knew about and approved it. The deal was done before the Draft. Now getting back to my point. Where were all these " last minute callers" the days leading up to the Draft? The last minute call argument as a viable trade deal option is BS. The deals would have at least been intriguing and baited before the draft even started to be worthy of a phone pick up. You guys that are making the "no phone calls" argument are way too smart not to see the flaws with that narrative on your own. Ernie said it wasn't. You can say he's lying of course....but this is what he said.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 16, 2020 21:03:40 GMT -5
Trade out and grab josh allen. We needed a qb badly . both other ny teams went qb and we didnt. Smh. Barkley was the safe pick in the he was pretty much gauranteed to be a good player. So to me gettleman wanted to play it safe. Josh Allen sucks. I'm afraid you're wrong about that.
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Post by TEM on Sept 17, 2020 6:40:00 GMT -5
I never read that. How was it not. Because the Giants did not move up for Manning. Why? Why not just go for the 1st over all? Don't tell me this wasn't hashed out already. But the deal was reached so quickly that Smith felt confident the Giants already knew the phone was going to ring.
“It came together so fast. So fast. It was almost comical,” Smith said. “It was very much to my liking, and for fun I also threw out Osi’s name again for Ernie and he [outburst] and I laughed to break the ice because it was a dealbreaker. I said, ( as in AJ Smith the chargers GM ) ‘I’m just kidding Ernie, now how much time do we have? Minutes?’ and boom, there it was.”
“We knew what we were going to give,” Accorsi said. “We had our own meetings. We were willing to give them our No. 1 and the other various draft choices that we gave. We just weren’t giving up a pass rusher. So it didn’t make any difference. I needed about three seconds to make that decision.
“So when he asked for next year’s No. 1, I said yes right away, because we had already decided that was the going rate.”
www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/16/18295462/eli-manning-philip-rivers-trade-2004-nfl-draft-giants-chargers-aj-smith-ernie-accorsiThey knew the call was coming. How did they? There is no way this deal was not done behind the scenes. Accorsi might have been telling the truth about the deal . "Indirectly" he knew about and approved it. The deal was done before the Draft. Now getting back to my point. Where were all these " last minute callers" the days leading up to the Draft? The last minute call argument as a viable trade deal option is BS. The deals would have at least been intriguing and baited before the draft even started to be worthy of a phone pick up. You guys that are making the "no phone calls" argument are way too smart not to see the flaws with that narrative on your own. Ernie said it wasn't. You can say he's lying of course....but this is what he said.
There is no way these deals are worked out in a matter on minuets. The preliminary deal is worked out before the draft. There is no way a deal that big is accepted without time to mull it over. This isn't moving up to pick 30 This is the top of the draft those top 10 12 picks are franchise changers. Who in their right mind makes a decision like that with a very small time constraint. There is 100 days between the end of the season and the draft. Some of you believe it is all on draft day or at the time of the pick. It makes no sense to wait till the last minuet and waste those 100 days.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Sept 17, 2020 6:46:23 GMT -5
I'm afraid you're wrong about that. He sure isn't the franchise QB I wanted for the Giants.
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Post by TEM on Sept 17, 2020 6:52:12 GMT -5
I'm afraid you're wrong about that. He sure isn't the franchise QB I wanted for the Giants. He does work for what the Bills are doing. They are doing something right . They made the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 years. He is a gun slinger and careless with the ball . But so were Eli and Farve.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Sept 17, 2020 6:54:55 GMT -5
He sure isn't the franchise QB I wanted for the Giants. He does work for what the Bills are doing. They are doing something right . They made the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 years. He is a gun slinger and careless with the ball . But so were Eli and Farve. I don't follow the Bills but what I've seen from him is bad long ball throws.
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Post by TEM on Sept 17, 2020 7:07:41 GMT -5
He does work for what the Bills are doing. They are doing something right . They made the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 years. He is a gun slinger and careless with the ball . But so were Eli and Farve. I don't follow the Bills but what I've seen from him is bad long ball throws. He throws it up for grabs. We won 4 with a QBs that do that. And GB won one. Gun slingers have proven to be a winning attribute. Phil threw a hell of a lot of INTs . He was a winner too, I want to see when DJ hit his grove as a QB take those chances into double and triple coverage . That is how you move the ball. Because Phil, Eli and Farve all had the confidence to know . "yeah it was picked" but the next drive I'll march right down the field. Those 3 QBs were instrumental in 5 wins.
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 8:51:41 GMT -5
We're one game into the season and we're already recycling the "We should have never drafted a running back at 2" debate again? I am pushing my chips to the center of the table. I am ALL IN! Saquon Barkley will have 150+ yards from scrimmage and two touchdowns next week against the Bears. If anyone wants to put money on it, let me know. those numbers by Barkley won't mean much if we still lose the game...
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 17, 2020 8:55:23 GMT -5
I don't follow the Bills but what I've seen from him is bad long ball throws. He throws it up for grabs. We won 4 with a QBs that do that. And GB won one. Gun slingers have proven to be a winning attribute. Phil threw a hell of a lot of INTs . He was a winner too, I want to see when DJ hit his grove as a QB take those chances into double and triple coverage . That is how you move the ball. Because Phil, Eli and Farve all had the confidence to know . "yeah it was picked" but the next drive I'll march right down the field. Those 3 QBs were instrumental in 5 wins. gunslingers are risky but they do keep the DBs from crowding the LOS...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 9:23:07 GMT -5
Broncos, Colts, Dolphins.....anyone before the Cowboys "People call you and they want the second pick of the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog," Gettleman explained during his press conference. Are hot dogs and pretzels what you wanted for the second pick? I do like both much better then .4 yards a carry haha
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 9:28:25 GMT -5
He said he listened to a few offers, and one was a very reasonable offer (I think it was Den to jump the Jets for Darnold), but he liked Barkley too much. And when the draft started and we were on the clock, he decided not to pursue any of it. He didnt want to take the phone calls because he had his mind set. Thats pretty much what he said. here is my problem with DG picking Barkley, he was a shiny hood ornament on a 32 Chevy, a draft pick that could have been put to far better use... Like trading back for more draft picks. Like someone posted. The most Important pieces are QB, shut down Corner, LT, Pass Rush Monster. Until you get that all the other pieces should be secondary
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 9:30:05 GMT -5
I don't buy the Covid excuse. The "Washington Football Team" had no problem with a new system and new coaches. They killed it week 1. Lol Nwvemind the fact they also lucked into playing a team that lost 3 linemen to injury and Peters is a shell of himself So how do you explain the Steelers playing at mid-season speed and instincts against a team that was basically in preseason game 1 mode having maybe 25% of their playbook available ? Indisputable fact that this was a direct result of the Covid-19 situation that you cannot argue or spin around Even so I don’t think you ever put Yiadom one on one with JuJu on a crucial 3rd down play.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 9:33:11 GMT -5
We're one game into the season and we're already recycling the "We should have never drafted a running back at 2" debate again? I am pushing my chips to the center of the table. I am ALL IN! Saquon Barkley will have 150+ yards from scrimmage and two touchdowns next week against the Bears. If anyone wants to put money on it, let me know. I’m in. A cold Beer and Wings should do it
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 17, 2020 9:38:19 GMT -5
He sure isn't the franchise QB I wanted for the Giants. He does work for what the Bills are doing. They are doing something right . They made the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 years. He is a gun slinger and careless with the ball . But so were Eli and Farve. There’s something to be said for a higher volatility QB. Despite what they say most would trade nice stats for championships.
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 17, 2020 9:42:00 GMT -5
I don't follow the Bills but what I've seen from him is bad long ball throws. He throws it up for grabs. We won 4 with a QBs that do that. And GB won one. Gun slingers have proven to be a winning attribute. Phil threw a hell of a lot of INTs . He was a winner too, I want to see when DJ hit his grove as a QB take those chances into double and triple coverage . That is how you move the ball. Because Phil, Eli and Farve all had the confidence to know . "yeah it was picked" but the next drive I'll march right down the field. Those 3 QBs were instrumental in 5 wins. The opposite of Alex Smith, who imo is a good QB, just not a QB I’d ever want for my team.
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Post by TEM on Sept 17, 2020 9:42:54 GMT -5
He throws it up for grabs. We won 4 with a QBs that do that. And GB won one. Gun slingers have proven to be a winning attribute. Phil threw a hell of a lot of INTs . He was a winner too, I want to see when DJ hit his grove as a QB take those chances into double and triple coverage . That is how you move the ball. Because Phil, Eli and Farve all had the confidence to know . "yeah it was picked" but the next drive I'll march right down the field. Those 3 QBs were instrumental in 5 wins. The opposite of Alex Smith, who imo is a good QB, just not a QB I’d ever want for my team. Risk takers win.
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Sept 17, 2020 19:18:48 GMT -5
I completely agree with this but liked Allen coming out. He's a great kid just like our Jones and is the AFC QB I pull for. I see both of them already have their teams following them as leaders despite their youth.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 17, 2020 19:24:51 GMT -5
I hated it before I got excited about it.
At this point, having ANY RB when we are 2 or 3 years (4 or 5 years from drafting him) away from being deep playoff relevant seems like a mistake to me.
The roster was so needy (we all knew that) and trading down would have delivered a bushell of picks.
I hate monday morning QBing but that is how the question is framed.
Looks like a mistake unless we arrive big time next year and he is a major part of it.
This has nothing to do with Barkley as a player or what he can be, just a perspective from the Giants side of things.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 17, 2020 20:09:06 GMT -5
He throws it up for grabs. We won 4 with a QBs that do that. And GB won one. Gun slingers have proven to be a winning attribute. Phil threw a hell of a lot of INTs . He was a winner too, I want to see when DJ hit his grove as a QB take those chances into double and triple coverage . That is how you move the ball. Because Phil, Eli and Farve all had the confidence to know . "yeah it was picked" but the next drive I'll march right down the field. Those 3 QBs were instrumental in 5 wins. gunslingers are risky but they do keep the DBs from crowding the LOS... Calling Eli a "gunslinger" literally makes me laugh out loud.
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 17, 2020 20:50:53 GMT -5
Calling Eli a "gunslinger" literally makes me laugh out loud.
Considering your Simms fetish that is understandable. Eli always seemed to be the kind of guy who got beat up for milk money. I figured his worshipers are the same.
I'm sorry but "gunslingers" have swagger. Eli never did.
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Post by Jomo on Sept 17, 2020 21:24:09 GMT -5
Considering your Simms fetish that is understandable. Eli always seemed to be the kind of guy who got beat up for milk money. I figured his worshipers are the same.
I'm sorry but "gunslingers" have swagger. Eli never did.
Think Bert Jones.
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