|
Post by Sarcasman on Dec 28, 2020 14:50:10 GMT -5
You think those stats are cool, you should see Jones' stats without Barkley in the lineup. It's like a totally different guy. Jones had 24 TDs and 23 TO's last year, hardly impressive but definitely better than Haskins. Thats with our friend Barkley. His rookie season is not as fabled as it is often revered. Even statistically, of course. The myth of Jones on the boards has never lined up with the actual guy. I stated no feelings about any of this; I just referenced his stats with Barkley and without. They are what they are.
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Dec 28, 2020 14:51:30 GMT -5
Oh neat, stats. They are useful. You are soooooooo right, Haskins and Jones are practically the same player. Giants should cut Jones today, because stats. I didn't actually say.. any of that. Just that both sets sucked relative to higher performing peers. Just presented stats that were strikingly similar. If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Dec 28, 2020 14:54:34 GMT -5
I didn't actually say.. any of that. Just that both sets sucked relative to higher performing peers. Just presented stats that were strikingly similar. If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant. Agreed. Haskins is a bum on and off the field.
|
|
coughlinscorner
Special Teams
Gooble Gobble We Accept Her One of Us
Posts: 854
|
Post by coughlinscorner on Dec 28, 2020 14:56:13 GMT -5
Gotta give props to Stephen A. Smith for having the courage to admit that he was wrong regarding the Haskins - Jones controversy, most people in his shoes would've just pretended that they never said it. Maybe he would get props in that tweet if he also apologized for calling the Giants a racist organization.The "A" in Steven A still stands You took the words right out of my mouth
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Dec 28, 2020 15:02:11 GMT -5
If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant. Agreed. Haskins is a bum on and off the field. I like Jonesy, but I'm still not sold on him as a long term QB. I also don't think he has shown enough either way to say at this point. It would be so much easier if he was great out of the gate or just imploded the way Haskins did. But it is not unheard of for QBs to struggle for their first couple of years. If the Giants were in position to draft a top flight QB like Lawrence looks to be this year. I don't think Jones has shown enough to pass on that opportunity. But we won't be, and I don't think there is another prospect this year that will be there who will be enough of a sure thing to scrap Jones after just 2 seasons.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Dec 28, 2020 15:05:40 GMT -5
Agreed. Haskins is a bum on and off the field. I like Jonesy, but I'm still not sold on him as a long term QB. I also don't think he has shown enough either way to say at this point. It would be so much easier if he was great out of the gate or just imploded the way Haskins did. But it is not unheard of for QBs to struggle for their first couple of years. If the Giants were in position to draft a top flight QB like Lawrence looks to be this year. I don't think Jones has shown enough to pass on that opportunity. But we won't be, and I don't think there is another prospect this year that will be there who will be enough of a sure thing to scrap Jones after just 2 seasons. The only way scraping Jones is if you find a QB in the draft that can potentially be a better pro. I think you have 2, maybe 3 in this next draft that could be better. If they will be is dependent on many things. If we keep Jones we really have to revamp the roster around him to have a shot and I get that. Just not sure its the right way to go. If none of those QB's fall to the Giants or they dont think one can be better than Jones then so be it. I just dont trust our current FO to make that call.
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Dec 28, 2020 15:10:31 GMT -5
I like Jonesy, but I'm still not sold on him as a long term QB. I also don't think he has shown enough either way to say at this point. It would be so much easier if he was great out of the gate or just imploded the way Haskins did. But it is not unheard of for QBs to struggle for their first couple of years. If the Giants were in position to draft a top flight QB like Lawrence looks to be this year. I don't think Jones has shown enough to pass on that opportunity. But we won't be, and I don't think there is another prospect this year that will be there who will be enough of a sure thing to scrap Jones after just 2 seasons. The only way scraping Jones is if you find a QB in the draft that can potentially be a better pro. I think you have 2, maybe 3 in this next draft that could be better. If they will be is dependent on many things. If we keep Jones we really have to revamp the roster around him to have a shot and I get that. Just not sure its the right way to go. If none of those QB's fall to the Giants or they dont think one can be better than Jones then so be it. I just dont trust our current FO to make that call. Interesting choice of words "that can potentially be a better pro". Since this could apply to any QB ever drafted in comparison to any QB who ever played. "can potentially" Which means he isn't potentially now, but can at some point be potentially there. Which doesn't even get him there just gets him to the point of potentially being there. I think Jones is already past the point of "can potentially" and is firmly in the potentially category already.
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Dec 28, 2020 15:17:33 GMT -5
Rivera did not like this guy from day 1.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Dec 28, 2020 15:25:58 GMT -5
In 2020: QB #1: 62.2% completion 208 yards/g 0.69 TDs/game QB #2: 61.4% completion 206 yards/g 0.71 TDs/game One is Haskins, the other Jones. Both relatively shitty. Guesses? and you think Haskins was waived because of his performance on the field? Nope.
|
|
|
Post by roundabout on Dec 28, 2020 15:26:10 GMT -5
Rivera did not like this guy from day 1. Neither did Gruden and the strippers who said he was a bad tipper
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Dec 28, 2020 15:34:22 GMT -5
and you think Haskins was waived because of his performance on the field? Nope. then positing game stats was entirely useless.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Dec 28, 2020 16:13:23 GMT -5
then positing game stats was entirely useless. No. Just stating the on the field both Jones and Haskins suck. Unless you have some bias towards one or the other.
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Dec 28, 2020 17:00:23 GMT -5
Gotta give props to Stephen A. Smith for having the courage to admit that he was wrong regarding the Haskins - Jones controversy, most people in his shoes would've just pretended that they never said it. I don't see that as courage. Nobody forced him to talk out his ass. He fully intended to make headlines with his comments.
And it isn't Haskins fall that makes Stephen A look like a "damn fool". Stephen A did that totally on his own as if he knew anything about Jones and Haskins careers to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by Nite on Dec 28, 2020 17:00:51 GMT -5
Interchange the T and F..
..
|
|
|
Post by DJones19 on Dec 28, 2020 17:02:51 GMT -5
At the end Cris Carter said he'd be on TV to analyze this one in two years. So far I think he's been silent...
|
|
|
Post by Roosevelt on Dec 28, 2020 17:03:40 GMT -5
it's all about the brand, man!! I looked at his website earlier this year. His page was still up but there has been no updates.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Dec 28, 2020 17:04:01 GMT -5
then positing game stats was entirely useless. No. Just stating the on the field both Jones and Haskins suck. Unless you have some bias towards one or the other. I don't know when I compare their career stats, Jones appears to be materially better; but that's just stats.
|
|
|
Post by Miked1958 on Dec 28, 2020 18:43:48 GMT -5
Just heard this! Awesome! All Haskins lovers can suck it! Many on this board wanted him to be our draft pick
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Dec 28, 2020 21:23:24 GMT -5
then positing game stats was entirely useless. No. Just stating the on the field both Jones and Haskins suck. Unless you have some bias towards one or the other. yeah...thread is about Haskins getting waived which has absolutely zero to do with Jones. Especially since you readily admitted Haskins didn't get waived due to his on the field performance. Maybe its you who has the bias/agenda. We all get Jones is in a deep hole and may ultimately not dig out of it. You arent pointing anything out thats meaningful here.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Dec 28, 2020 22:18:12 GMT -5
No. Just stating the on the field both Jones and Haskins suck. Unless you have some bias towards one or the other. yeah...thread is about Haskins getting waived which has absolutely zero to do with Jones. Especially since you readily admitted Haskins didn't get waived due to his on the field performance. Maybe its you who has the bias/agenda. We all get Jones is in a deep hole and may ultimately not dig out of it. You arent pointing anything out thats meaningful here. No need to get defensive. I simply pointed out statistics showing how bad Jones has been this year. Haskins is out there maskless at the rippers and puts up on field stats similar to our starting QB who is hypothetically busting his balls. That tells me something about Jones and if we're talking about his peer in a divisional team its fair game to compare statistics. If you get nothing from the stat, dont bother replying to it. You're in no way shape or for obligated to do so.
|
|
|
Post by thetruth on Dec 28, 2020 22:22:23 GMT -5
No. Just stating the on the field both Jones and Haskins suck. Unless you have some bias towards one or the other. I don't know when I compare their career stats, Jones appears to be materially better; but that's just stats. They're certainly better last year. Even if you ignore Jones 1.8 turnovers per game. Ill give you that. But its interesting to see that Jones stats are at all comparable to Haskins who literally isn't even trying to be good this year. Doing his very best not to.
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Dec 28, 2020 22:29:33 GMT -5
I didn't actually say.. any of that. Just that both sets sucked relative to higher performing peers. Just presented stats that were strikingly similar. If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant. What?
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on Dec 28, 2020 22:56:49 GMT -5
I don't know when I compare their career stats, Jones appears to be materially better; but that's just stats. They're certainly better last year. Even if you ignore Jones 1.8 turnovers per game. Ill give you that. But its interesting to see that Jones stats are at all comparable to Haskins who literally isn't even trying to be good this year. Doing his very best not to. But who's to say that isn't all Haskins can bring? He wouldn't be the first college hero to not make it in the NFL. As far as Jones is concerned, he's got next year to prove he deserves this job. He sure hasn't yet.
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Dec 28, 2020 23:01:55 GMT -5
They're certainly better last year. Even if you ignore Jones 1.8 turnovers per game. Ill give you that. But its interesting to see that Jones stats are at all comparable to Haskins who literally isn't even trying to be good this year. Doing his very best not to. But who's to say that isn't all Haskins can bring? He wouldn't be the first college hero to not make it in the NFL. As far as Nones is concerned, he's got next year to prove he deserves this job. He sure hasn't yet. Characteristics that ALL franchise NFL QB’s have - tremendous work ethic, leadership and professionalism. Those characteristics don’t guarantee that a guy will be a franchise QB (see, Jones, Daniel), but without those characteristics, you have no chance.
|
|
|
Post by GameTime on Dec 29, 2020 7:56:44 GMT -5
yeah...thread is about Haskins getting waived which has absolutely zero to do with Jones. Especially since you readily admitted Haskins didn't get waived due to his on the field performance. Maybe its you who has the bias/agenda. We all get Jones is in a deep hole and may ultimately not dig out of it. You arent pointing anything out thats meaningful here. No need to get defensive. I simply pointed out statistics showing how bad Jones has been this year. Haskins is out there maskless at the rippers and puts up on field stats similar to our starting QB who is hypothetically busting his balls. That tells me something about Jones and if we're talking about his peer in a divisional team its fair game to compare statistics. If you get nothing from the stat, dont bother replying to it. You're in no way shape or for obligated to do so. I chose to participate with your agenda driven post about Jones' stats in correlation to Haskins getting cut due to his unprofessional actions and not the play on the field. Which QB is Hypothetically busting who's balls? You lost me there.
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Dec 29, 2020 8:53:44 GMT -5
Just heard this! Awesome! All Haskins lovers can suck it! Many on this board wanted him to be our draft pick And we are all fans that really know little about these players every draft. Everyone has players each draft they like and don't like, sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. We all just have to realize that whatever our opinions are, they are not informed opinions. There were several things to like about Haskins heading into the draft and the biggest problems with him seems to be things that fans without inside access to the player or the program would know little to nothing about. I try to remind people of this each year at draft time as they make hyperbolic statements about one prospect or another, tends to fall on deaf ears. But it doesn't change the reality of it even if they don't want to hear it. "Can't miss" this and "transcendent" that, etc...with all the hyperbole floating around every year you would think the NFL is full of demi-gods by now transcending all over the field on each other.
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Dec 29, 2020 8:55:08 GMT -5
If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant. What? If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant.
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on Dec 29, 2020 9:22:19 GMT -5
Many on this board wanted him to be our draft pick And we are all fans that really know little about these players every draft. Everyone has players each draft they like and don't like, sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. We all just have to realize that whatever our opinions are, they are not informed opinions. There were several things to like about Haskins heading into the draft and the biggest problems with him seems to be things that fans without inside access to the player or the program would know little to nothing about. I try to remind people of this each year at draft time as they make hyperbolic statements about one prospect or another, tends to fall on deaf ears. But it doesn't change the reality of it even if they don't want to hear it. "Can't miss" this and "transcendent" that, etc...with all the hyperbole floating around every year you would think the NFL is full of demi-gods by now transcending all over the field on each other. I don’t remember any pre-draft reports questioning Haskins’ maturity or work ethic ... I only remember that weird article about his Dad. As you say, though, we really don’t know anything about these players as people and it is apparent that many times the teams don’t know much more than we do in that respect....
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Dec 29, 2020 9:46:42 GMT -5
And we are all fans that really know little about these players every draft. Everyone has players each draft they like and don't like, sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. We all just have to realize that whatever our opinions are, they are not informed opinions. There were several things to like about Haskins heading into the draft and the biggest problems with him seems to be things that fans without inside access to the player or the program would know little to nothing about. I try to remind people of this each year at draft time as they make hyperbolic statements about one prospect or another, tends to fall on deaf ears. But it doesn't change the reality of it even if they don't want to hear it. "Can't miss" this and "transcendent" that, etc...with all the hyperbole floating around every year you would think the NFL is full of demi-gods by now transcending all over the field on each other. I don’t remember any pre-draft reports questioning Haskins’ maturity or work ethic ... I only remember that weird article about his Dad. As you say, though, we really don’t know anything about these players as people and it is apparent that many times the teams don’t know much more than we do in that respect.... Which was my point. Fans on this site wouldn't have any idea about any off field issues with work habits, how he is with teammates, etc... So there is little point in criticizing some fan for thinking he would be a good QB. I wasn't a big Haskins fan, but I thought he was pretty good and would not have complained had the Giants drafted him. Every year it seems produces 2-6 QBs that look like they could be that franchise guy. Occasionally you get a Manning or Luck that really look like a significant cut above the rest. Looks like we have another this year in Lawrence. But for the most part there is little that separates the group of available QBs from one year to another except in number of them available.
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Dec 29, 2020 11:16:43 GMT -5
If you think Haskin's stats is why he was released, not sure you have been paying attention. If Haskins was working hard, making sound adult decisions; he would be in camp next year with the Redskins. He has struggled and was benched and released because of why he was not performing well. He was not working hard. He was making immature decisions. He was not acting as part of a team. He is now gone, those stats are irrelevant. I agree.
|
|