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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 25, 2021 8:37:29 GMT -5
Looking back on Ben McAdoo and Spags 2nd tenure I really think we had the right staff in place. Congrats to Spags on making is 3rd SB as a DC. That 2017 season was such a perfect storm of expectations, to injuries, to internal strife, but at the end of the day the problem was Jerry Reese's inability to rebuild the offensive line. The Eli situation should not have led to so much fallout.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 8:54:42 GMT -5
Looking back on Ben McAdoo and Spags 2nd tenure I really think we had the right staff in place. Congrats to Spags on making is 3rd SB as a DC. That 2017 season was such a perfect storm of expectations, to injuries, to internal strife, but at the end of the day the problem was Jerry Reese's inability to rebuild the offensive line. The Eli situation should not have led to so much fallout. I think the team was pretty healthy, just aging and when you have a lot of free agents they are their for the pay, the team lacked leader ship on the roster JPP nor Snacks wanted anything to do with it. LC was young and ready to take on that responsibility think he would have been better leading by example he was doing it through the media not good. I remember the December Rams game sitting there depressed how bad the team had fallen DRC getting ticked at JJ and the group as a whole because they were going through the motions. In 25 years of going to every Giants game that was one of the worst seasons I had ever went through. Spags is and was a good coach here the rest of that staff lost their individual position groups. When the Giants fire someone in season it is worse then bad lol it takes an act of god for them to fire anyone period lol. Took a few years but I think they are headed in the right direction.
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 25, 2021 9:11:58 GMT -5
Looking back on Ben McAdoo and Spags 2nd tenure I really think we had the right staff in place. Congrats to Spags on making is 3rd SB as a DC. That 2017 season was such a perfect storm of expectations, to injuries, to internal strife, but at the end of the day the problem was Jerry Reese's inability to rebuild the offensive line. The Eli situation should not have led to so much fallout. I think the team was pretty healthy, just aging and when you have a lot of free agents they are their for the pay, the team lacked leader ship on the roster JPP nor Snacks wanted anything to do with it. LC was young and ready to take on that responsibility think he would have been better leading by example he was doing it through the media not good. I remember the December Rams game sitting there depressed how bad the team had fallen DRC getting ticked at JJ and the group as a whole because they were going through the motions. In 25 years of going to every Giants game that was one of the worst seasons I had ever went through. Spags is and was a good coach here the rest of that staff lost their individual position groups. When the Giants fire someone in season it is worse then bad lol it takes an act of god for them to fire anyone period lol. Took a few years but I think they are headed in the right direction. We lost every WR on the team during the month of September. Eli was WRs who could not get open and an Oline that could not block was a terrible combination. And moving on from Eli at that time could have been handled better, but it was the right time. The only way Eli could have thrived was with a brick wall offensive line. The spent way too many years after the 2011 SB putting a pocket passer behind a line that could not create a pocket. If not for the Geno Smith fiasco we likely go QB in that 2018 draft. Even if they wanted to keep Eli then they should have gone Oline. The way to save him was the blocking in front of him not a RB behind him. McAdoo was a greasy slob, but he knew football. He even pushed for Mahomes in the 17 draft. Im sure this has all been discussed time and again, just watching Spags contain that Bills offense with marginal defensive talent really brought these feelings back up in me.
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Post by TEM on Jan 25, 2021 9:30:08 GMT -5
McAdoo has no communication skills, Because of it . He lost the team. He could not speak in front of the press.
He lacked the humility to know the abilities of his players. So he did not know how to use them effectively. Another contributing factor on why he lost the locker room. I do not care how smart he is or how much football he knows . He possesses none of the qualities it takes to be a leader.
On his best day. He is not HC materiel.
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Post by bizcliz on Jan 25, 2021 9:53:14 GMT -5
McAdoo's offense was good in 14/15 because he had Coughlin there to help push the downfield stuff. The OL was still bad. McAdoo left to his own devices had a playbook the size of Alaska with "Slant Flat" written all over it. The guy was a moron offensively and was a total weirdo as a coach.
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 25, 2021 10:04:30 GMT -5
I remember there was talk years back that Spags wasn’t a good defensive coordinator anymore. Like he fell on his head and forgot how to coach. In reality, he still knows how to coach. He just needs the players to do so. I know, who would have thought talented players make a coaches job easier..
As for McAdoo. He did win 11 games his first year. If Judge did that we would be giving him a ticker tape parade and the key to the City. Unfortunately for McAdoo, his second year he decided to go in a midlife crisis. Instead of the goofy next door neighbor look, he went with the douche bag Hollywood producer look. He had no pulse of the team, and his post game interviews were that of a Laurel & Hardy skit. You know when you say “he’s not head coach material?” Ben McAdoo fit that like a glove.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 25, 2021 10:06:38 GMT -5
I dont think Mac was right at all. A HC like him can only survive is if he has an unbelievable staff in all aspects. But thats just one fan's view from the outside looking in.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Jan 25, 2021 10:40:01 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about Mac. I kind of would have liked to see him get another year or two to be honest and didn't think he was that bad overall.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 25, 2021 10:42:30 GMT -5
Looking back on Ben McAdoo and Spags 2nd tenure I really think we had the right staff in place. Congrats to Spags on making is 3rd SB as a DC. That 2017 season was such a perfect storm of expectations, to injuries, to internal strife, but at the end of the day the problem was Jerry Reese's inability to rebuild the offensive line. The Eli situation should not have led to so much fallout. Never should have been an Eli situation to begin with and that was all on mcAdonothing. I agree. Eli should have been let go much earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 10:49:56 GMT -5
Steve Spagnolo was not in any way a problem on that team. The team was shit. What bothers me most is some didn’t and still don’t see it that way. They called for Spags’ firing. Made me sick.
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Post by TCHOF on Jan 25, 2021 12:08:08 GMT -5
Looking back on Ben McAdoo and Spags 2nd tenure I really think we had the right staff in place. Congrats to Spags on making is 3rd SB as a DC. That 2017 season was such a perfect storm of expectations, to injuries, to internal strife, but at the end of the day the problem was Jerry Reese's inability to rebuild the offensive line. The Eli situation should not have led to so much fallout. Never should have been an Eli situation to begin with and that was all on mcAdonothing. False. McAdoo was just carrying out the plan that Mara had agreed to, then the Silver-Spooned Weenie threw him and Reese under the bus when the fans didn't like it.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 25, 2021 12:24:11 GMT -5
I remember there was talk years back that Spags wasn’t a good defensive coordinator anymore. Like he fell on his head and forgot how to coach. In reality, he still knows how to coach. He just needs the players to do so. I know, who would have thought talented players make a coaches job easier.. As for McAdoo. He did win 11 games his first year. If Judge did that we would be giving him a ticker tape parade and the key to the City. Unfortunately for McAdoo, his second year he decided to go in a midlife crisis. Instead of the goofy next door neighbor look, he went with the douche bag Hollywood producer look. He had no pulse of the team, and his post game interviews were that of a Laurel & Hardy skit. You know when you say “he’s not head coach material?” Ben McAdoo fit that like a glove.
McAdoo took an offense that ranked about 10th in the league and revamped it into one of the worst.
That team won 11 games on the strength of the defense that Reese handed Spags.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 12:32:53 GMT -5
I think the team was pretty healthy, just aging and when you have a lot of free agents they are their for the pay, the team lacked leader ship on the roster JPP nor Snacks wanted anything to do with it. LC was young and ready to take on that responsibility think he would have been better leading by example he was doing it through the media not good. I remember the December Rams game sitting there depressed how bad the team had fallen DRC getting ticked at JJ and the group as a whole because they were going through the motions. In 25 years of going to every Giants game that was one of the worst seasons I had ever went through. Spags is and was a good coach here the rest of that staff lost their individual position groups. When the Giants fire someone in season it is worse then bad lol it takes an act of god for them to fire anyone period lol. Took a few years but I think they are headed in the right direction. We lost every WR on the team during the month of September. Eli was WRs who could not get open and an Oline that could not block was a terrible combination. And moving on from Eli at that time could have been handled better, but it was the right time. The only way Eli could have thrived was with a brick wall offensive line. The spent way too many years after the 2011 SB putting a pocket passer behind a line that could not create a pocket. If not for the Geno Smith fiasco we likely go QB in that 2018 draft. Even if they wanted to keep Eli then they should have gone Oline. The way to save him was the blocking in front of him not a RB behind him. McAdoo was a greasy slob, but he knew football. He even pushed for Mahomes in the 17 draft. Im sure this has all been discussed time and again, just watching Spags contain that Bills offense with marginal defensive talent really brought these feelings back up in me. Agree with WR deal it was bad. MY issue was with the defense they turned into a blowout waiting to happen by mid season just weren't responding to the game plan or the coaching. Not on Spags the Giants in 07 had some nice talent but Spags schemed them up they had a few weaknesses in the secondary at safety he covered them up with scheme and pressure 17 was on the players. Greasy slob lol good description Mac new the direction the league was going. Think QB coach and or coordinator might work for him but he did struggle once TC got tossed TC and Flararty were very good at sliding protection and max protecting the QB. Agree 100% on Mahomes was hoping they drafted him or did what was needed to get him same with Watson either were guys I would have been really happy if they made the moves to get them. Watching Spags D all bought in and killing the Bills reminded me of the scheme and effort he got in SB42, I was at that game and the Greenbay game that defense was something to watch. remember in 18 they only had Flowers and Jones under contract they did draft Hernandez who everyone was crazy about and paid the best available tackle in Solder. When you draft bad you end up at the mercy of freeagancy teams don't let good healthy players get there very often.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 25, 2021 12:33:56 GMT -5
I dont think Mac was right at all. A HC like him can only survive is if he has an unbelievable staff in all aspects. But thats just one fan's view from the outside looking in. I find it hilarious that people still pull out the old he wanted Mahomes line as if it was more real than it was and that it somehow immunizes him against his own performance. That's like me saying I want a F-14. Sure, it'd be an awesome asset to have but in realty I'm nowhere near equipped to handle it. He was in way over his head, had no concept of how to manage the full scope of the job and that became very obvious quickly.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 25, 2021 12:35:24 GMT -5
Never should have been an Eli situation to begin with and that was all on mcAdonothing. I agree. Eli should have been let go much earlier. I agree, they should have dealt him right after the last SB win.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 12:38:44 GMT -5
I remember there was talk years back that Spags wasn’t a good defensive coordinator anymore. Like he fell on his head and forgot how to coach. In reality, he still knows how to coach. He just needs the players to do so. I know, who would have thought talented players make a coaches job easier.. As for McAdoo. He did win 11 games his first year. If Judge did that we would be giving him a ticker tape parade and the key to the City. Unfortunately for McAdoo, his second year he decided to go in a midlife crisis. Instead of the goofy next door neighbor look, he went with the douche bag Hollywood producer look. He had no pulse of the team, and his post game interviews were that of a Laurel & Hardy skit. You know when you say “he’s not head coach material?” Ben McAdoo fit that like a glove.
McAdoo took an offense that ranked about 10th in the league and revamped it into one of the worst.
That team won 11 games on the strength of the defense that Reese handed Spags.
They won 11 games because the best team they played was the Cowboys with rookie QB and RB and a washed up Bryant, they played the Rams before they were any good Fischer was still the coach, the Browns almost lost to the Rams. As you said the defense played good ball holding opponents to less then 20 game. the next year they played a first place schedule and got obliterated, 2016 was nothing more then an outlier 2017 they were 2-14 that is who they were.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 12:41:53 GMT -5
I dont think Mac was right at all. A HC like him can only survive is if he has an unbelievable staff in all aspects. But thats just one fan's view from the outside looking in. I find it hilarious that people still pull out the old he wanted Mahomes line as if it was more real than it was and that it somehow immunizes him against his own performance. That's like me saying I want a F-14. Sure, it'd be an awesome asset to have but in realty I'm nowhere near equipped to handle it. He was in way over his head, had no concept of how to manage the full scope of the job and that became very obvious quickly. Well said Mac seems to be a QB coach at bets maybe an OC he never grasped what he learned under TC no matter who your QB is you need to protect wether it is with max protect or some well timed help being maneuvered along the front.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 12:45:02 GMT -5
I agree. Eli should have been let go much earlier. I agree, they should have dealt him right after the last SB win. I thought the Giants were gonna be in on Watson or Mahomes let them learn a little under Eli. Even if they drafted either they were not equipped to handle their growth. Maybe Shurmur could have helped but the staff nor team was set up to nurture a young QB.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 12:50:27 GMT -5
Never should have been an Eli situation to begin with and that was all on mcAdonothing. False. McAdoo was just carrying out the plan that Mara had a greed to, then the Silver-Spooned Weenie threw him and Reese under the bus when the fans didn't like it. Macadoo and Reese got fired because they just spent ton of money had some high draft picks and lost the team completely. Think the Eli benching was probably the last straw but they were going one way or the other. No one survives 2-14 after doling out some 200 mill in contracts that they just now have gotten out from under. No coach no GM.
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 25, 2021 13:14:48 GMT -5
I remember there was talk years back that Spags wasn’t a good defensive coordinator anymore. Like he fell on his head and forgot how to coach. In reality, he still knows how to coach. He just needs the players to do so. I know, who would have thought talented players make a coaches job easier.. As for McAdoo. He did win 11 games his first year. If Judge did that we would be giving him a ticker tape parade and the key to the City. Unfortunately for McAdoo, his second year he decided to go in a midlife crisis. Instead of the goofy next door neighbor look, he went with the douche bag Hollywood producer look. He had no pulse of the team, and his post game interviews were that of a Laurel & Hardy skit. You know when you say “he’s not head coach material?” Ben McAdoo fit that like a glove.
McAdoo took an offense that ranked about 10th in the league and revamped it into one of the worst.
That team won 11 games on the strength of the defense that Reese handed Spags.
You forgot to mention he was the head coach of our last winning season. Credit to Beckham, the defense, Spags. But, the head coach wasn’t some sock puppet playing with himself on the sidelines. Want to say he was not cut out for being a head coach? Or he rode a defense that kept us in many games? I’ll agree to all of that. But, we can’t wipe his name from the books and act like it never happened.
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 25, 2021 13:19:57 GMT -5
McAdoo took an offense that ranked about 10th in the league and revamped it into one of the worst.
That team won 11 games on the strength of the defense that Reese handed Spags.
They won 11 games because the best team they played was the Cowboys with rookie QB and RB and a washed up Bryant, they played the Rams before they were any good Fischer was still the coach, the Browns almost lost to the Rams. As you said the defense played good ball holding opponents to less then 20 game. the next year they played a first place schedule and got obliterated, 2016 was nothing more then an outlier 2017 they were 2-14 that is who they were. What’s Joe Judges excuse? We won 6 games with an historically bad division.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 13:27:56 GMT -5
They won 11 games because the best team they played was the Cowboys with rookie QB and RB and a washed up Bryant, they played the Rams before they were any good Fischer was still the coach, the Browns almost lost to the Rams. As you said the defense played good ball holding opponents to less then 20 game. the next year they played a first place schedule and got obliterated, 2016 was nothing more then an outlier 2017 they were 2-14 that is who they were. What’s Joe Judges excuse? We won 6 games with an historically bad division. One of the toughest schedules in football no off season new head coach young team they aren't even comparable we will agree to disagree.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 13:30:39 GMT -5
They won 11 games because the best team they played was the Cowboys with rookie QB and RB and a washed up Bryant, they played the Rams before they were any good Fischer was still the coach, the Browns almost lost to the Rams. As you said the defense played good ball holding opponents to less then 20 game. the next year they played a first place schedule and got obliterated, 2016 was nothing more then an outlier 2017 they were 2-14 that is who they were. What’s Joe Judges excuse? We won 6 games with an historically bad division. One more thing Joe judges team didn't shit the bed those young kids played Toe to Toe with the best the NFL had to offer just telling the facts.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 25, 2021 13:47:45 GMT -5
McAdoo took an offense that ranked about 10th in the league and revamped it into one of the worst.
That team won 11 games on the strength of the defense that Reese handed Spags.
You forgot to mention he was the head coach of our last winning season. Credit to Beckham, the defense, Spags. But, the head coach wasn’t some sock puppet playing with himself on the sidelines. Want to say he was not cut out for being a head coach? Or he rode a defense that kept us in many games? I’ll agree to all of that. But, we can’t wipe his name from the books and act like it never happened. That season doesn't mean much to me looking back at the big picture. If we want to give him credit it would have to be for riding the defense to that many wins. But it was his offense. He took an pretty good offense that he and Coughlin created and scrapped it for one of the worst offenses I can remember. He personally coached Eli into a player that was afraid of his own shadow and left him unprotected with Flowers and Hart at the tackles.
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 25, 2021 14:25:45 GMT -5
What’s Joe Judges excuse? We won 6 games with an historically bad division. One of the toughest schedules in football no off season new head coach young team they aren't even comparable we will agree to disagree. We had 6 games against a pathetic Cowboys, Washington and Philly team. We played an awful Bengals team on top of a injury riddled 49ers team. Out of 16 games, 8 of them were against inferior opponents. Everything you said are excuses.. If we’re going to discredit and over analyze McAdoos 11 win season. Then let’s do the same thing for Judge last year. Most won’t do that, we’ll just say Judge is a wonderful head coach, and McAdoo is a moron. It’s easier that way. You forgot to mention he was the head coach of our last winning season. Credit to Beckham, the defense, Spags. But, the head coach wasn’t some sock puppet playing with himself on the sidelines. Want to say he was not cut out for being a head coach? Or he rode a defense that kept us in many games? I’ll agree to all of that. But, we can’t wipe his name from the books and act like it never happened. That season doesn't mean much to me looking back at the big picture. If we want to give him credit it would have to be for riding the defense to that many wins. But it was his offense. He took an pretty good offense that he and Coughlin created and scrapped it for one of the worst offenses I can remember. He personally coached Eli into a player that was afraid of his own shadow and left him unprotected with Flowers and Hart at the tackles. Winning seasons mean a hell lot to me. As we can see, we’ve had one since ‘13. I agree about his offense, he basically nurtured Eli and forced him to be a high completion percentage quarterback. As for Flowers and Hart. That falls on Reese. Hard to build a functioning offense with two turnstiles at tackle.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 14:30:13 GMT -5
One of the toughest schedules in football no off season new head coach young team they aren't even comparable we will agree to disagree. We had 6 games against a pathetic Cowboys, Washington and Philly team. We played an awful Bengals team on top of a injury riddled 49ers team. Out of 16 games, 8 of them were against inferior opponents. Everything you said are excuses.. If we’re going to discredit and over analyze McAdoos 11 win season. Then let’s do the same thing for Judge last year. Most won’t do that, we’ll just say Judge is a wonderful head coach, and McAdoo is a moron. It’s easier that way. That season doesn't mean much to me looking back at the big picture. If we want to give him credit it would have to be for riding the defense to that many wins. But it was his offense. He took an pretty good offense that he and Coughlin created and scrapped it for one of the worst offenses I can remember. He personally coached Eli into a player that was afraid of his own shadow and left him unprotected with Flowers and Hart at the tackles. Winning seasons mean a hell lot to me. As we can see, we’ve had one since ‘13. I agree about his offense, he basically nurtured Eli and forced him to be a high completion percentage quarterback. As for Flowers and Hart. That falls on Reese. Hard to build a functioning offense with two turnstiles at tackle. Whats easier is building the right way so you win all the time not only when the schedule dictates it. you can spin all you want the part you got right is MacAdoo is a Moron
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 25, 2021 14:33:47 GMT -5
One of the toughest schedules in football no off season new head coach young team they aren't even comparable we will agree to disagree. We had 6 games against a pathetic Cowboys, Washington and Philly team. We played an awful Bengals team on top of a injury riddled 49ers team. Out of 16 games, 8 of them were against inferior opponents. Everything you said are excuses.. If we’re going to discredit and over analyze McAdoos 11 win season. Then let’s do the same thing for Judge last year. Most won’t do that, we’ll just say Judge is a wonderful head coach, and McAdoo is a moron. It’s easier that way. That season doesn't mean much to me looking back at the big picture. If we want to give him credit it would have to be for riding the defense to that many wins. But it was his offense. He took an pretty good offense that he and Coughlin created and scrapped it for one of the worst offenses I can remember. He personally coached Eli into a player that was afraid of his own shadow and left him unprotected with Flowers and Hart at the tackles. Winning seasons mean a hell lot to me. As we can see, we’ve had one since ‘13. I agree about his offense, he basically nurtured Eli and forced him to be a high completion percentage quarterback. As for Flowers and Hart. That falls on Reese. Hard to build a functioning offense with two turnstiles at tackle. He refused to Max protect and give the OL help he wanted the ball out. They had to go with the slants it was a matter of time before they sat on it and someone got hurt second year he lost the whole receiving crew. TC helped him learn how get protection with well timed slides he through it out the window and wanted the state of Eli to run around making plays lol.
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Post by DJones19 on Jan 25, 2021 17:06:37 GMT -5
Giants haven't had a winning season since McAdoo was coach 5 years ago. 11-5 as a rookie head coach, best results in years.
I found him refreshingly honest, he came from the coal mines and would have been a great coach in the 1960s. Too many egos in today's NFL - now owners want "Coach CEOs" that will kneel on the ground to political correctness.
..and that not a knock on Judge, I think he's got the football part to go with the CEO part.
Fewell's defenses were always good at creating turnovers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 17:58:26 GMT -5
Giants haven't had a winning season since McAdoo was coach 5 years ago. 11-5 as a rookie head coach, best results in years. I found him refreshingly honest, he came from the coal mines and would have been a great coach in the 1960s. Too many egos in today's NFL - now owners want "Coach CEOs" that will kneel on the ground to political correctness. ..and that not a knock on Judge, I think he's got the football part to go with the CEO part. Fewell's defenses were always good at creating turnovers. Perry Fool was a joke.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 25, 2021 19:03:53 GMT -5
Looking back on Ben McAdoo and Spags 2nd tenure I really think we had the right staff in place. Congrats to Spags on making is 3rd SB as a DC. That 2017 season was such a perfect storm of expectations, to injuries, to internal strife, but at the end of the day the problem was Jerry Reese's inability to rebuild the offensive line. The Eli situation should not have led to so much fallout. 80's I believe this will be Spags 4th SB. I think he was Andy Reids DC last year as well. He has 3 SB rings, 2 with Big Blue under Coughlin and has 1 already with K.C. He could wind up with 4 SB rings.
He's already beat Brady twice in SB's.
Whew ! Atta Boy Spags.
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