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Post by DandyDon on Mar 4, 2021 0:21:28 GMT -5
As you may remember...It was the mob who still wanted Eli. John Mara was intimidated by that mob and the long term interests of the team were badly harmed because of it. It brought us Gettleman and in gave us more Eli, long after he was able to be a winning QB.
Yup and Mara is lost imo. He knew the message was going to be sent to Eli and wasn’t even in the building. The chaos could have been cleaned up by Tuesday but Mara did nothing. As far as Mac, he had to live with the players that season. Rather than call them out he took the high road with the media and kept repeating “we have to look at the film” and moved on. What else could he say? We can’t block, nobody can catch and the QB is terrible? His mistake was starting Smith b/c he could have sold Davis Webb. Regardless, Mac was on the front line while everybody else hid. Mac's mistake was taking a job he totally wasn't qualified for in the hardest market possible. And then misreading his players, the fans, and his employers. IMO, NY Giants ownership was also dumb for promoting him too soon. I'd love to see McAdoo succeed in the future. I'm sure he learned from his experience in NY.
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 4, 2021 0:28:03 GMT -5
Yup and Mara is lost imo. He knew the message was going to be sent to Eli and wasn’t even in the building. The chaos could have been cleaned up by Tuesday but Mara did nothing. As far as Mac, he had to live with the players that season. Rather than call them out he took the high road with the media and kept repeating “we have to look at the film” and moved on. What else could he say? We can’t block, nobody can catch and the QB is terrible? His mistake was starting Smith b/c he could have sold Davis Webb. Regardless, Mac was on the front line while everybody else hid. Mac's mistake was taking a job he totally wasn't qualified for in the hardest market possible. And then misreading his players, the fans, and his employers. IMO, NY Giants ownership was also dumb for promoting him too soon. I'd love to see McAdoo succeed in the future. I'm sure he learned from his experience in NY. Misreading the fans? Who cares. Go win football games.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 4, 2021 0:50:06 GMT -5
None of those those things were ever in dispute by anyone. It was never all on Mac anymore than it was all on Reese or all on Coughlin, they also paid with their jobs. That's just the business. That's always been self evident and has nothing at all to do with the logical fallacy that they imply McAdoo was a good HC. That separate and the Mahomes is completely irrelevant to the situation. Mahomes is not irrelevant. Mac recognized Eli was done. The whole organization felt otherwise so kept Eli around. What’s being implied is the whole organization was more lost than Mac. I get the implication, I just don't agree with it. It's far too simplistic for me. A stoped clock being right once doesn't make him a good HC. HIs job was to coach the players he had, not pine for the players he doesn't have. Particularly when he demonstrated no superior ability to do so. That was his job and he failed at that. There is no reason to think to think that if he had significantly better players it would make him much better of a catch. Shurmur was a much better offensive coach than McAdoo,if had Mahomes would that have made Shurmur a great coach? It's as likely as turning McAdoo into one. Which begs the question if the players are that great, how difficult is for the HC to claim credit for their performance?
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 4, 2021 0:51:57 GMT -5
As you may remember...It was the mob who still wanted Eli. John Mara was intimidated by that mob and the long term interests of the team were badly harmed because of it. It brought us Gettleman and in gave us more Eli, long after he was able to be a winning QB.
Yup and Mara is lost imo. He knew the message was going to be sent to Eli and wasn’t even in the building. The chaos could have been cleaned up by Tuesday but Mara did nothing. As far as Mac, he had to live with the players that season. Rather than call them out he took the high road with the media and kept repeating “we have to look at the film” and moved on. What else could he say? We can’t block, nobody can catch and the QB is terrible? His mistake was starting Smith b/c he could have sold Davis Webb. Regardless, Mac was on the front line while everybody else hid. That's the HC's job. His situation was no different from Coughlin's, Shurmur's or Judges's.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 4, 2021 0:52:54 GMT -5
Mac's mistake was taking a job he totally wasn't qualified for in the hardest market possible. And then misreading his players, the fans, and his employers. IMO, NY Giants ownership was also dumb for promoting him too soon. I'd love to see McAdoo succeed in the future. I'm sure he learned from his experience in NY. Misreading the fans? Who cares. Go win football games.
He failed at that and much more. That's why he lost his job.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 4, 2021 6:47:26 GMT -5
Yup and Mara is lost imo. He knew the message was going to be sent to Eli and wasn’t even in the building. The chaos could have been cleaned up by Tuesday but Mara did nothing. As far as Mac, he had to live with the players that season. Rather than call them out he took the high road with the media and kept repeating “we have to look at the film” and moved on. What else could he say? We can’t block, nobody can catch and the QB is terrible? His mistake was starting Smith b/c he could have sold Davis Webb. Regardless, Mac was on the front line while everybody else hid. That's the HC's job. His situation was no different from Coughlin's, Shurmur's or Judges's. that’s true. appears more weight for the young HC challenging the status quo than elder coach riding the finished QB imo.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 4, 2021 6:56:00 GMT -5
Yup and Mara is lost imo. He knew the message was going to be sent to Eli and wasn’t even in the building. The chaos could have been cleaned up by Tuesday but Mara did nothing. As far as Mac, he had to live with the players that season. Rather than call them out he took the high road with the media and kept repeating “we have to look at the film” and moved on. What else could he say? We can’t block, nobody can catch and the QB is terrible? His mistake was starting Smith b/c he could have sold Davis Webb. Regardless, Mac was on the front line while everybody else hid. Mac's mistake was taking a job he totally wasn't qualified for in the hardest market possible. And then misreading his players, the fans, and his employers. IMO, NY Giants ownership was also dumb for promoting him too soon. I'd love to see McAdoo succeed in the future. I'm sure he learned from his experience in NY. Might be true. The monster play board and handling of the media may have indicated he had more to learn. Can’t agree with misreading the players though. Bring back anybody the receivers and Eli would have at least one target. He lost all the receivers and there were zero upgrades to the OL. Imo, the defense was ready to start off where they left off only to see playoff hopes vanish before October. They were pissed. And the fans? I think they easily swayed by ex-Giant players who endorsed Eli and the media mob who received little to write about besides he wants to “look at the film”
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Post by nick030567 on Mar 4, 2021 9:57:35 GMT -5
Mahomes is not irrelevant. Mac recognized Eli was done. The whole organization felt otherwise so kept Eli around. What’s being implied is the whole organization was more lost than Mac. I get the implication, I just don't agree with it. It's far too simplistic for me. A stoped clock being right once doesn't make him a good HC. HIs job was to coach the players he had, not pine for the players he doesn't have. Particularly when he demonstrated no superior ability to do so. That was his job and he failed at that. There is no reason to think to think that if he had significantly better players it would make him much better of a catch. Shurmur was a much better offensive coach than McAdoo,if had Mahomes would that have made Shurmur a great coach? It's as likely as turning McAdoo into one. Which begs the question if the players are that great, how difficult is for the HC to claim credit for their performance? Exactly. We saw Judge get more out of the same players as Pat. Likewise we didn't see Ben command the locker room at all. And he evidently was not a good teacher and had a very vanilla/narrow offensive mind (without TC to add diversity to his playbook). He played favorites with his playmakers while the Defense carried that team in 2016. He threw specific players (like Eli) under the bus anytime the media put pressure on him. Just because he liked Mahomes doesn't make him a genius. He liked him because of his mobility. Mobility was obviously Ben's fetish. Ben apparently seemed so ignorant about football that he thought you could win games with a trash OL and a running QB. That's why he thought Geno Smith could possibly save his ass 🙄 You need a team to compliment and support your QB. The question these people need to ask is, would you have trusted McAdoo with building the entire team based on those facts? Maybe, someday Ben will be a good HC. But it was clear that he wasn't ready for that. I loved him as OC but it's clear TC had a lot of influence in that scheme
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 4, 2021 10:50:18 GMT -5
I get the implication, I just don't agree with it. It's far too simplistic for me. A stoped clock being right once doesn't make him a good HC. HIs job was to coach the players he had, not pine for the players he doesn't have. Particularly when he demonstrated no superior ability to do so. That was his job and he failed at that. There is no reason to think to think that if he had significantly better players it would make him much better of a catch. Shurmur was a much better offensive coach than McAdoo,if had Mahomes would that have made Shurmur a great coach? It's as likely as turning McAdoo into one. Which begs the question if the players are that great, how difficult is for the HC to claim credit for their performance? Exactly. We saw Judge get more out of the same players as Pat. Likewise we didn't see Ben command the locker room at all. And he evidently was not a good teacher and had a very vanilla/narrow offensive mind (without TC to add diversity to his playbook). He played favorites with his playmakers while the Defense carried that team in 2016. He threw specific players (like Eli) under the bus anytime the media put pressure on him. Just because he liked Mahomes doesn't make him a genius. He liked him because of his mobility. Mobility was obviously Ben's fetish. Ben apparently seemed so ignorant about football that he thought you could win games with a trash OL and a running QB. That's why he thought Geno Smith could possibly save his ass 🙄 You need a team to compliment and support your QB. The question these people need to ask is, would you have trusted McAdoo with building the entire team based on those facts? Maybe, someday Ben will be a good HC. But it was clear that he wasn't ready for that. I loved him as OC but it's clear TC had a lot of influence in that scheme Judge won 6 games so how much more did he get out of players? I too think his presence is significant but the team still didn't win much. Tells me you need talent. Give Judge that 08 Mac team and he probably doesn't win either. I don't know who could win. Agree and "no", just because Mac liked Mahomes doesn't make him a genius but i think it does indicate he knew Eli was done whereas nobody else thought so. Meanwhile, Mahomes was in reach as the Chiefs, from farther back in the draft, moved up to draft him. How is the world do you blame him for the following? "Mobility was obviously Ben's fetish. Ben apparently seemed so ignorant about football that he thought you could win games with a trash OL and a running QB." That's why he thought Geno Smith" Starting Smith was a joke yet how ignorant were some of the fans and the entire Giants hierarchy who thought they could win games with a imobile QB who was finished, no offensive line and all the receivers hurt? "You need a team to compliment and support your QB " Well guess what? The Giants let go of Mac and tried for a few years complimenting Eli yet nothing worked. Why? b/c was finished. The only person who saw this was Mac. The fans who killed Mac, yet also preach they wanted a supporting cast around a finished Eli appear just as lost as they fee Mac was. The same fans and media who demonstrate time and time again they don't understand football i'm sure will do a 180 on Judge or any coach. Afterall, at 11-5 the debate wasn't about Mac but rather whether or not an idiot receiver should or should not enjoy his week off. Well, after that week off both OBJ and Cruz sported the same boat attire during the pregame vs the Pack only to not show up for the game. What a difference the next month of football made
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 4, 2021 14:43:25 GMT -5
Exactly. We saw Judge get more out of the same players as Pat. Likewise we didn't see Ben command the locker room at all. And he evidently was not a good teacher and had a very vanilla/narrow offensive mind (without TC to add diversity to his playbook). He played favorites with his playmakers while the Defense carried that team in 2016. He threw specific players (like Eli) under the bus anytime the media put pressure on him. Just because he liked Mahomes doesn't make him a genius. He liked him because of his mobility. Mobility was obviously Ben's fetish. Ben apparently seemed so ignorant about football that he thought you could win games with a trash OL and a running QB. That's why he thought Geno Smith could possibly save his ass 🙄 You need a team to compliment and support your QB. The question these people need to ask is, would you have trusted McAdoo with building the entire team based on those facts? Maybe, someday Ben will be a good HC. But it was clear that he wasn't ready for that. I loved him as OC but it's clear TC had a lot of influence in that scheme Judge won 6 games so how much more did he get out of players? I too think his presence is significant but the team still didn't win much. Tells me you need talent. Give Judge that 08 Mac team and he probably doesn't win either. I don't know who could win. Agree and "no", just because Mac liked Mahomes doesn't make him a genius but i think it does indicate he knew Eli was done whereas nobody else thought so. Meanwhile, Mahomes was in reach as the Chiefs, from farther back in the draft, moved up to draft him. How is the world do you blame him for the following? "Mobility was obviously Ben's fetish. Ben apparently seemed so ignorant about football that he thought you could win games with a trash OL and a running QB." That's why he thought Geno Smith" Starting Smith was a joke yet how ignorant were some of the fans and the entire Giants hierarchy who thought they could win games with a imobile QB who was finished, no offensive line and all the receivers hurt? "You need a team to compliment and support your QB " Well guess what? The Giants let go of Mac and tried for a few years complimenting Eli yet nothing worked. Why? b/c was finished. The only person who saw this was Mac. The fans who killed Mac, yet also preach they wanted a supporting cast around a finished Eli appear just as lost as they fee Mac was. The same fans and media who demonstrate time and time again they don't understand football i'm sure will do a 180 on Judge or any coach. Afterall, at 11-5 the debate wasn't about Mac but rather whether or not an idiot receiver should or should not enjoy his week off. Well, after that week off both OBJ and Cruz sported the same boat attire during the pregame vs the Pack only to not show up for the game. What a difference the next month of football made This rationale doesn't actually address any of the issues with McAdoo. The FO issues with putting together a competitive team both preceded him by nearly a decade and outlasted him. But none of those coaches lost their teams. To me the only noteworthy difference is that Mcadoo could not control a professional football team. His ruining the offense was secondary. But it does reveal the idea that acquiring Mahomes under McAdoo would have been a good thing for him or the Giants to be even more ludicrous.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 4, 2021 15:36:08 GMT -5
Judge won 6 games so how much more did he get out of players? I too think his presence is significant but the team still didn't win much. Tells me you need talent. Give Judge that 08 Mac team and he probably doesn't win either. I don't know who could win. Agree and "no", just because Mac liked Mahomes doesn't make him a genius but i think it does indicate he knew Eli was done whereas nobody else thought so. Meanwhile, Mahomes was in reach as the Chiefs, from farther back in the draft, moved up to draft him. How is the world do you blame him for the following? "Mobility was obviously Ben's fetish. Ben apparently seemed so ignorant about football that he thought you could win games with a trash OL and a running QB." That's why he thought Geno Smith" Starting Smith was a joke yet how ignorant were some of the fans and the entire Giants hierarchy who thought they could win games with a imobile QB who was finished, no offensive line and all the receivers hurt? "You need a team to compliment and support your QB " Well guess what? The Giants let go of Mac and tried for a few years complimenting Eli yet nothing worked. Why? b/c was finished. The only person who saw this was Mac. The fans who killed Mac, yet also preach they wanted a supporting cast around a finished Eli appear just as lost as they fee Mac was. The same fans and media who demonstrate time and time again they don't understand football i'm sure will do a 180 on Judge or any coach. Afterall, at 11-5 the debate wasn't about Mac but rather whether or not an idiot receiver should or should not enjoy his week off. Well, after that week off both OBJ and Cruz sported the same boat attire during the pregame vs the Pack only to not show up for the game. What a difference the next month of football made This rationale doesn't actually address any of the issues with McAdoo. The FO issues with putting together a competitive team both preceded him by nearly a decade and outlasted him. But none of those coaches lost their teams. To me the only noteworthy difference is that Mcadoo could not control a professional football team. His ruining the offense was secondary. But it does reveal the idea that acquiring Mahomes under McAdoo would have been a good thing for him or the Giants to be even more ludicrous. Nobody has controlled obj and no coach could have kept that team together imo. Anybody ridiculing the HC for the offensive disaster, imo, really were led around by the media. The talent was repulsive We didn't hear a peep of HC ridicule the previous year followed by an avalanche of ridicule before Oct. The loud mob will turn on Judge just as quickly if the media tells them too.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 5, 2021 12:37:19 GMT -5
This rationale doesn't actually address any of the issues with McAdoo. The FO issues with putting together a competitive team both preceded him by nearly a decade and outlasted him. But none of those coaches lost their teams. To me the only noteworthy difference is that Mcadoo could not control a professional football team. His ruining the offense was secondary. But it does reveal the idea that acquiring Mahomes under McAdoo would have been a good thing for him or the Giants to be even more ludicrous. Nobody has controlled obj and no coach could have kept that team together imo. Anybody ridiculing the HC for the offensive disaster, imo, really were led around by the media. The talent was repulsive We didn't hear a peep of HC ridicule the previous year followed by an avalanche of ridicule before Oct. The loud mob will turn on Judge just as quickly if the media tells them too. Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 5, 2021 13:19:03 GMT -5
Mac was not a good HC. What he saw in Mahomes and Eli being"done" can be echoed by thousands of others. Wasnt some revelation
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2021 13:48:43 GMT -5
Mac was not a good HC. What he saw in Mahomes and Eli being"done" can be echoed by thousands of others. Wasnt some revelation Apparently it was revelation to everybody besides Andy Reid who traded up while others either passed or didn't trade up for Mahomes.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 8, 2021 13:53:12 GMT -5
Mac was not a good HC. What he saw in Mahomes and Eli being"done" can be echoed by thousands of others. Wasnt some revelation Apparently it was revelation to everybody besides Andy Reid who traded up while others either passed or didn't trade up for Mahomes. yeah Mahomes was dark horse for sure... lol You go start an NFL and have Ben Mac as your HC..... See how it goes
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2021 14:01:56 GMT -5
Nobody has controlled obj and no coach could have kept that team together imo. Anybody ridiculing the HC for the offensive disaster, imo, really were led around by the media. The talent was repulsive We didn't hear a peep of HC ridicule the previous year followed by an avalanche of ridicule before Oct. The loud mob will turn on Judge just as quickly if the media tells them too. Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it. He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2021 14:04:07 GMT -5
Apparently it was revelation to everybody besides Andy Reid who traded up while others either passed or didn't trade up for Mahomes. yeah Mahomes was dark horse for sure... lol You go start an NFL and have Ben Mac as your HC..... See how it goes You can't admit he wanted to trade up for him. Lol Whatever the media writes, there is a loud percentage of fans who follow. Mac was the scapegoat for those fans who thought the team was good. Otherwise, why be so upset?
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Post by GameTime on Mar 8, 2021 14:08:49 GMT -5
yeah Mahomes was dark horse for sure... lol You go start an NFL and have Ben Mac as your HC..... See how it goes You can't admit he wanted to trade up for him. Lol Whatever the media writes, there is a loud percentage of fans who follow. Mac was the scapegoat for those fans who thought the team was good. Otherwise, why be so upset? who is upset? Mac was poor as a HC. Not saying he is a bad football guy or doesnt know the sport. I never denied Mac liked Mahomes. Just said it wasnt some obscure view.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2021 14:15:12 GMT -5
You can't admit he wanted to trade up for him. Lol Whatever the media writes, there is a loud percentage of fans who follow. Mac was the scapegoat for those fans who thought the team was good. Otherwise, why be so upset? who is upset? Mac was poor as a HC. Not saying he is a bad football guy or doesnt know the sport. I never denied Mac liked Mahomes. Just said it wasnt some obscure view. oh please, the team went 11-5 and both fans/media were praising the guy and wondered why the team didnt let Coughlin go earlier. Expectations were high and a posse of fickle did a 180 overnight despite the roster being a (blank) show. It could have been any coach and to this day those blaming him never mention the roster. Doubt they can even name the receivers or OL.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 8, 2021 14:28:02 GMT -5
who is upset? Mac was poor as a HC. Not saying he is a bad football guy or doesnt know the sport. I never denied Mac liked Mahomes. Just said it wasnt some obscure view. oh please, the team went 11-5 and both fans/media were praising the guy and wondered why the team didnt let Coughlin go earlier. Expectations were high and a posse of fickle did a 180 overnight despite the roster being a (blank) show. It could have been any coach and to this day those blaming him never mention the roster. Doubt they can even name the receivers or OL. ok....let me make this clear. I am not speaking for the media or any other fan. I did not like Mac as the HC. Coming in I didn't care about his suit or any of that other BS and was willing to wait and see. Ultimately he showed me he was overwhelmed and not ready. You ok with that?
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2021 14:33:20 GMT -5
oh please, the team went 11-5 and both fans/media were praising the guy and wondered why the team didnt let Coughlin go earlier. Expectations were high and a posse of fickle did a 180 overnight despite the roster being a (blank) show. It could have been any coach and to this day those blaming him never mention the roster. Doubt they can even name the receivers or OL. ok....let me make this clear. I am not speaking for the media or any other fan. I did not like Mac as the HC. Coming in I didn't care about his suit or any of that other BS and was willing to wait and see. Ultimately he showed me he was overwhelmed and not ready. You ok with that? Ignore the roster hate the guy. It's crystal clear. 11-5 was fine. By Oct he was public enemy #1 b/c he couldn't win with an awful roster and your expectations where higher. You ok with that? Otherwise, you must think the team was better
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Post by GameTime on Mar 8, 2021 14:37:00 GMT -5
ok....let me make this clear. I am not speaking for the media or any other fan. I did not like Mac as the HC. Coming in I didn't care about his suit or any of that other BS and was willing to wait and see. Ultimately he showed me he was overwhelmed and not ready. You ok with that? Ignore the roster hate the guy. It's crystal clear. 11-5 was fine. By Oct he was public enemy #1 b/c he couldn't win with an awful roster and your expectations where higher. You ok with that? Otherwise, you must think the team was better your view not mine. He was not ready as a HC. Which other team has he HC'd? Someday he may make a great HC. I am not dissing him at all.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 8, 2021 14:40:26 GMT -5
Ignore the roster hate the guy. It's crystal clear. 11-5 was fine. By Oct he was public enemy #1 b/c he couldn't win with an awful roster and your expectations where higher. You ok with that? Otherwise, you must think the team was better your view not mine. He was not ready as a HC. Which other team has he HC'd? Someday he may make a great HC. I am not dissing him at all. Oh i see, so this nothing to do with record lol. Even better. At 11-5 you were against him. Awesome.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 8, 2021 14:46:01 GMT -5
your view not mine. He was not ready as a HC. Which other team has he HC'd? Someday he may make a great HC. I am not dissing him at all. Oh i see, so this nothing to do with record lol. Even better. At 11-5 you were against him. Awesome. maybe you have an issue with me for some reason or maybe you dont comprehend very well. Maybe both. I clearly said ULTIMATELY I did not think he was a good HC and was overwhelmed. I loved the 11-5 record who wouldnt. If you dont agree thats fine I am not trying to convince you otherwise.
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Post by Sarcasman on Mar 9, 2021 1:07:48 GMT -5
Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it. He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise. I didn't hate him at all, he seemed like a nice enough guy. Why would I hate a former HC of the team? I acknowledged all the issues you state, I do not disagree with any of the roster issues you cite. The way I look at is, he didn't get five years to build his team; not many modern HCs do. Shurmur inherited the team and got pretty much the same deal. 2 years. He got the benefit of an improving roster but he didn't show anything that made him worth keeping. To the point of Mcadoo's 11-5 warranting more consideration, I agree. I think two things worked against him here, one in his control and one out. He was hired as the GM was hanging on so he was in an unstable position to start with. When the team went to shit it was easy to fire everybody. Not fair, it sucks but it's reality in every big business in the world. But a part of why it went to hell is because he lost control of the team. A horrible losing season is one thing, a horrible losing season and a team mutiny is another. I think the job was just too big for him at the time. He's young he's still working so who knows. I just disagree with you but I don't feel that I am being unfair to the guy at all.
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Post by nick030567 on Mar 9, 2021 9:34:29 GMT -5
Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it. He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise. Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it. He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise. I'm sorry but any coach that believes you can be in one personnel formation 90% of the time week after week and expects his guys to win has a lot to learn. I mean I guess on paper it sounds like one of those clever smartest guy in the room ideas, those are your best playmakers (so get them on the field). BUT you need to keep a defense on their heels. It's just the reality of the game. There's a reason football is compared to chess strategically. You can't do that shit and succeed, he should have known better. Just plain common sense. No doubt the roster was atrocious and that's not his fault, it started back in 2009 with bad drafting and bad luck with injuries to both key players and good depth players. But there were things Mac did as a coach that were monumentally stupid. Maybe he was overthinking? He played favorites with his playmakers, threw Eli under the bus (when Eli was dealt the same shitty OL he was; oh and a vanilla game planner as HC, but apparently none of that has any effect on his play, Eli just turned to shit overnight after his 2nd best season in 2015, with no major injury history). Ben also totally lost control of the locker room. And I'm sure all of those big egos(the players) didn't help BUT there was really no coming back from that. A lot of those players straight kicked him to the curb, no respect at all (which says a lot about them as people BUT it is Mac's job to control that). The team imploded under him. Not all his fault, but he played a part in that. The team didn't even score more than 30 pts under him with (arguably) better playmakers than in 2015 when the Offense was like top 3. The O-line somehow even regressed in 2016 and 2017 and it already sucked in 2015. I think we can see (after this past season) how good coaching and scheming can turn bad O-linemen in to solid O-linemen. I'm sure Mac will get another opportunity as OC eventually and maybe he will do a good job again. Maybe he will even get another HC opportunity and do a better job that time. Who knows. I don't hate or like the guy (because I don't know him personally), so of course I wish him the best. But I'm also not gonna overlook his glaring issues as HC just because he liked Pat Mahomes
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Post by nick030567 on Mar 9, 2021 9:34:56 GMT -5
Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it. He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise. Mcadoo didn't have to deal with anything more than any other NFL HC and the circumstances of his tenure were pretty ordinary when compared to other recent Giants Head Coaches. Above all else and regardless of record, job one of the HC is to manage and control the team. At that he failed completely and that's why he had to be replaced. There really isn't any more to say about it. He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise. I'm sorry but any coach that believes you can be in one personnel formation 90% of the time week after week and expects his guys to win has a lot to learn. I mean I guess on paper it sounds like one of those clever smartest guy in the room ideas, those are your best playmakers (so get them on the field). BUT you need to keep a defense on their heels. It's just the reality of the game. There's a reason football is compared to chess strategically. You can't do that shit and succeed, he should have known better. Just plain common sense. No doubt the roster was atrocious and that's not his fault, it started back in 2009 with bad drafting and bad luck with injuries to both key players and good depth players. But there were things Mac did as a coach that were monumentally stupid. Maybe he was overthinking? He played favorites with his playmakers, threw Eli under the bus (when Eli was dealt the same shitty OL he was; oh and a vanilla game planner as HC, but apparently none of that has any effect on his play, Eli just turned to shit overnight after his 2nd best season in 2015, with no major injury history). Ben also totally lost control of the locker room. And I'm sure all of those big egos(the players) didn't help BUT there was really no coming back from that. A lot of those players straight kicked him to the curb, no respect at all (which says a lot about them as people BUT it is Mac's job to control that). The team imploded under him. Not all his fault, but he played a part in that. The team didn't even score more than 30 pts under him with (arguably) better playmakers than in 2015 when the Offense was like top 3. The O-line somehow even regressed in 2016 and 2017 and it already sucked in 2015. I think we can see (after this past season) how good coaching and scheming can turn bad O-linemen in to solid O-linemen. I'm sure Mac will get another opportunity as OC eventually and maybe he will do a good job again. Maybe he will even get another HC opportunity and do a better job that time. Who knows. I don't hate or like the guy (because I don't know him personally), so of course I wish him the best. But I'm also not gonna overlook his glaring issues as HC just because he liked Pat Mahomes
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 9, 2021 9:59:28 GMT -5
He may have not been a good coach but, i get it, you hated him. Ignore the issues, it was the head coach. Thank goodness Bill Parcells survived 83 and no i'm not saying Mac was Parcells but i will call out those who ignore the roster issues and sum this up with "it was his job. Sure, there are so many other coaches who would have handled this although none have been named.. Apparently the NFL is littered with coaches who coming off an 11-5 season get turned on the following year by Week 5. No QB, no OL, no WR, Darkwa was the leading rusher and a defense filled with mercenaries is the norm. Add in the super educated media and percentage of the fan base who know all too well how this roster should have been handled. Mac is gone and i don't miss him yet this is perfect example of how a media a write anything and audience will follow. The roster stunk and all those turing on the coach obviously thought otherwise. I didn't hate him at all, he seemed like a nice enough guy. Why would I hate a former HC of the team? I acknowledged all the issues you state, I do not disagree with any of the roster issues you cite. The way I look at is, he didn't get five years to build his team; not many modern HCs do. Shurmur inherited the team and got pretty much the same deal. 2 years. He got the benefit of an improving roster but he didn't show anything that made him worth keeping. To the point of Mcadoo's 11-5 warranting more consideration, I agree. I think two things worked against him here, one in his control and one out. He was hired as the GM was hanging on so he was in an unstable position to start with. When the team went to shit it was easy to fire everybody. Not fair, it sucks but it's reality in every big business in the world. But a part of why it went to hell is because he lost control of the team. A horrible losing season is one thing, a horrible losing season and a team mutiny is another. I think the job was just too big for him at the time. He's young he's still working so who knows. I just disagree with you but I don't feel that I am being unfair to the guy at all. IMO, that boat trip and not drafting a OT killed that team. Obviously somebody who can block helps. That boat trip wrecked everything and the start of camp didn’t help. That defense carried the team with some help from the offense. That arrogant wide receiver crew not only went on that boat trip yet returned sporting the same warm weather attire in the playoff pregame. Then they didn’t show up for the game. Eli was on that game and the defense was playing well. Dropped balls and then that hail mary to end the half wrecked that season. To make things worse, the opening of camp we read the defensive quoted about getting back to work while the cameras were all on OBJ with his colorful hair and dancing. Dance, dance, dance as if his boat trip and no-show in the playoffs never happened. I think culturally that messed everything up b/c the whole defensive unit rebelled once the offense couldn’t function. They have never recovered since that boat trip imo.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 9, 2021 21:04:21 GMT -5
McAdoo has no communication skills, Because of it . He lost the team. He could not speak in front of the press. He lacked the humility to know the abilities of his players. So he did not know how to use them effectively. Another contributing factor on why he lost the locker room. I do not care how smart he is or how much football he knows . He possesses none of the qualities it takes to be a leader. On his best day. He is not HC materiel. If you can overlook all of those truths, he is a guy heading to the HOF in the mold of Lombardi, Bill Walsh, Tom Landry, Chuck Noll. I wrote earlier that John Mara must have read on the internet that McAdoo was a rising star..... He had no background at all to be a head coach. It is hard as a fan to rise above an owner with no self reflection and with such weak management skills.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 10, 2021 20:45:05 GMT -5
ok....let me make this clear. I am not speaking for the media or any other fan. I did not like Mac as the HC. Coming in I didn't care about his suit or any of that other BS and was willing to wait and see. Ultimately he showed me he was overwhelmed and not ready. You ok with that? Ignore the roster hate the guy. It's crystal clear. 11-5 was fine. By Oct he was public enemy #1 b/c he couldn't win with an awful roster and your expectations where higher. You ok with that? Otherwise, you must think the team was better You do remember that the 11-5 team had one of the worst offenses in the league that year? And that Mac was supposed to be an offensive guru? And that the team spent around $200 million on defensive FAs prior to that season? I just have to laugh when anyone defends Mac based on that 11-5 year. The defense obviously won most of the games (Spags knows how to coach a good defense.) He had a bottom 10 offense rank through out his tenure, and he obviously didnt know how to handle his locker room. I dont think it's his fault, he was promoted WAY prematurely. IMO, the silly Mac promotion was on the owners.
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