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Post by TCHOF on Mar 11, 2021 19:06:43 GMT -5
In 4 years he has 2800 yards and 11 TD's. That is the definition of "just a guy"
And BTW he played 14 games last year, not 12.
He's the kind of guy who needs a great player (like AJ Brown) to get favorable coverage. Do we have anyone like that?
Kenny Golladay in 4 years has 3,068 yards and 21 TD. Guess he would also fall under your definition of "just a guy". Davis only started in 12 games, those 2 other games he was playing hurt. Let's not pretend that Kenny Golladay was playing with a bunch of scrubs. He benefited from Marvin Jones and they were arguably 1A and 1B. It’s indisputable that Davis has not played up to the level of a #1 WR to date. Signing him as a #1 and paying him #1 money would be based on sheer projection. Very dangerous. I would be fine for signing him to be what he is ... a #2 with possible upside |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 11, 2021 19:34:48 GMT -5
Kenny Golladay in 4 years has 3,068 yards and 21 TD. Guess he would also fall under your definition of "just a guy". Davis only started in 12 games, those 2 other games he was playing hurt. Let's not pretend that Kenny Golladay was playing with a bunch of scrubs. He benefited from Marvin Jones and they were arguably 1A and 1B. It’s indisputable that Davis has not played up to the level of a #1 WR to date. Signing him as a #1 and paying him #1 money would be based on sheer projection. Very dangerous. I would be fine for signing him to be what he is ... a #2 with possible upside He's clearly not a #1, but I've read he could still command a deal worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $12 to $14 million per year based on other players in a similar tier. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 11, 2021 22:10:21 GMT -5
It’s indisputable that Davis has not played up to the level of a #1 WR to date. Signing him as a #1 and paying him #1 money would be based on sheer projection. Very dangerous. I would be fine for signing him to be what he is ... a #2 with possible upside He's clearly not a #1, but I've read he could still command a deal worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $12 to $14 million per year based on other players in a similar tier. He's just not unique at all. He's an "OK" #2 WR. Now I agree that would be an upgrade for us. That's how bad we are at that position.
Golladay is a #1 WR. He's elite. Now he got hurt last year and missed most of the season. If your objection is that he's injury prone, I completely understand that and agree that's a concern. But when he's healthy...He IS an elite player. Last year was really the only year he missed a lot of time. Not sure what the injury was that he suffered last year and what the long term implications are.
But let's not kid ourselves about these two. One is ordinary and the other is elite.
BTW...I love Curtis Samuel the most. He is a real playmaker in both the passing game AND the running game. But we'll see what happens and who we add.
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Post by McCherry on Mar 11, 2021 22:21:38 GMT -5
He's clearly not a #1, but I've read he could still command a deal worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $12 to $14 million per year based on other players in a similar tier. He's just not unique at all. He's an "OK" #2 WR. Now I agree that would be an upgrade for us. That's how bad we are at that position.
Golladay is a #1 WR. He's elite. Now he got hurt last year and missed most of the season. If your objection is that he's injury prone, I completely understand that and agree that's a concern. But when he's healthy...He IS an elite player. Last year was really the only year he missed a lot of time. Not sure what the injury was that he suffered last year and what the long term implications are.
But let's not kid ourselves about these two. One is ordinary and the other is elite.
BTW...I love Curtis Samuel the most. He is a real playmaker in both the passing game AND the running game. But we'll see what happens and who we add.
I agree, but for what you'll pay for Davis/Samuel, Golloday is a better value for a few million more. Both Samuel, Davis have missed games due to injuries, Golloday missed time in one season due to minor injuries, he's no more injury prone than the other two. Any of the three would make us better, but I'm with you that Golloday is head and shoulders above the other two. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 11, 2021 23:23:58 GMT -5
He's just not unique at all. He's an "OK" #2 WR. Now I agree that would be an upgrade for us. That's how bad we are at that position.
Golladay is a #1 WR. He's elite. Now he got hurt last year and missed most of the season. If your objection is that he's injury prone, I completely understand that and agree that's a concern. But when he's healthy...He IS an elite player. Last year was really the only year he missed a lot of time. Not sure what the injury was that he suffered last year and what the long term implications are.
But let's not kid ourselves about these two. One is ordinary and the other is elite.
BTW...I love Curtis Samuel the most. He is a real playmaker in both the passing game AND the running game. But we'll see what happens and who we add.
I agree, but for what you'll pay for Davis/Samuel, Golloday is a better value for a few million more. Both Samuel, Davis have missed games due to injuries, Golloday missed time in one season due to minor injuries, he's no more injury prone than the other two. Any of the three would make us better, but I'm with you that Golloday is head and shoulders above the other two. Well Samuel has missed 4 games total in the last three seasons. One missed game in the last two years. Not perfect but much less injury prone than average. He's the guy I'm interested in. I love his game. A creative OC can find all kinds of ways to use him. I think he'd be a star here.
the fact that Dave drafted him is encouraging to me. I hope he's a Giant next year.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 23:35:14 GMT -5
I agree, but for what you'll pay for Davis/Samuel, Golloday is a better value for a few million more. Both Samuel, Davis have missed games due to injuries, Golloday missed time in one season due to minor injuries, he's no more injury prone than the other two. Any of the three would make us better, but I'm with you that Golloday is head and shoulders above the other two. Well Samuel has missed 4 games total in the last three seasons. One missed game in the last two years. Not perfect but much less injury prone than average. He's the guy I'm interested in. I love his game. A creative OC can find all kinds of ways to use him. I think he'd be a star here.
the fact that Dave drafted him is encouraging to me. I hope he's a Giant next year.
3 years ago while watching a Panthers game I said we need to bring Samuel home. Maybe this is our shot. I like his game and think he was very underutilized in Carolina. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 11, 2021 23:47:36 GMT -5
Well Samuel has missed 4 games total in the last three seasons. One missed game in the last two years. Not perfect but much less injury prone than average. He's the guy I'm interested in. I love his game. A creative OC can find all kinds of ways to use him. I think he'd be a star here.
the fact that Dave drafted him is encouraging to me. I hope he's a Giant next year.
3 years ago while watching a Panthers game I said we need to bring Samuel home. Maybe this is our shot. I like his game and think he was very underutilized in Carolina. From our lips to Dave's ears........ |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 12, 2021 5:56:27 GMT -5
Well Samuel has missed 4 games total in the last three seasons. One missed game in the last two years. Not perfect but much less injury prone than average. He's the guy I'm interested in. I love his game. A creative OC can find all kinds of ways to use him. I think he'd be a star here.
the fact that Dave drafted him is encouraging to me. I hope he's a Giant next year.
3 years ago while watching a Panthers game I said we need to bring Samuel home. Maybe this is our shot. I like his game and think he was very underutilized in Carolina. My issue with him Supposedly 4.38 speed 77 catches for 850 yards...a guy like this should feast post catch Something doesn't add up |
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 12, 2021 8:17:24 GMT -5
3 years ago while watching a Panthers game I said we need to bring Samuel home. Maybe this is our shot. I like his game and think he was very underutilized in Carolina. My issue with him Supposedly 4.38 speed 77 catches for 850 yards...a guy like this should feast post catch Something doesn't add up Maybe it's the Qbs they had in Carolina. They are run heavy also. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 12, 2021 8:31:38 GMT -5
My issue with him Supposedly 4.38 speed 77 catches for 850 yards...a guy like this should feast post catch Something doesn't add up Maybe it's the Qbs they had in Carolina. They are run heavy also. 77 catches should get you a bare minimum of 1000 receiving yards.. |
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Post by Morehead State on Mar 12, 2021 9:18:58 GMT -5
Maybe it's the Qbs they had in Carolina. They are run heavy also. 77 catches should get you a bare minimum of 1000 receiving yards.. Just not the way he was used last year. Anderson was the deep threat in Carolina. I think he can be used a lot more effectively than he was there.
I'm not saying that he's potentially a top 5 type WR. But I do think he can be a very effective weapon who defenses would have to account for.
Coincidently, he reminds me a lot of Deebo Samuel (no relation). That's the kind of player he is.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 12, 2021 10:25:21 GMT -5
77 catches should get you a bare minimum of 1000 receiving yards.. Just not the way he was used last year. Anderson was the deep threat in Carolina. I think he can be used a lot more effectively than he was there.
I'm not saying that he's potentially a top 5 type WR. But I do think he can be a very effective weapon who defenses would have to account for.
Coincidently, he reminds me a lot of Deebo Samuel (no relation). That's the kind of player he is.
Don't they have the guy from LSU that is supposedly one od the best OCs out there? And if they had an established deep threat then shouldn't Samuel have been gobbling up YAC yards at a major rate? For comparison Davis Davis had 100 more yards on 20 less catches.. And wouldn't we again have a redundancy issue with Shepard as Samuel seems to be best utilized as a guy that would be best running option routes from all over the field?(though with Kitchens having more say it seems it would mean we would be morphing into a hybrid style with more air raid/Erheart Perkins concepts ) |
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Post by Kase1 on Mar 12, 2021 12:18:34 GMT -5
77 catches should get you a bare minimum of 1000 receiving yards.. Just not the way he was used last year. Anderson was the deep threat in Carolina. I think he can be used a lot more effectively than he was there.
I'm not saying that he's potentially a top 5 type WR. But I do think he can be a very effective weapon who defenses would have to account for.
Coincidently, he reminds me a lot of Deebo Samuel (no relation). That's the kind of player he is.
I dont get the obsession with Samuel, he's not a great fit for us right now. I LOVE the fact that he is a local kid from BK, but we already have someone that does what he does We have a very good slot WR in Shepard, we dont need another slot guy. We need an outside threat. Samuel was the 3rd WR in Carolina's offense behind Moore and Anderson btw. Im not crazy about Golladay [hip injury], Davis [under performer], or Samuel [slot WR].... If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick I guess Id go Golladay, but his hip injury scares me a little bit. Unfortunately with our current cap status, we arent getting any of them. So lets hope Slayton and Engram remember how to catch the ball, and lets hope Shep doesnt get a concussion or else his career might be over |
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Post by McCherry on Mar 12, 2021 12:38:51 GMT -5
Just not the way he was used last year. Anderson was the deep threat in Carolina. I think he can be used a lot more effectively than he was there.
I'm not saying that he's potentially a top 5 type WR. But I do think he can be a very effective weapon who defenses would have to account for.
Coincidently, he reminds me a lot of Deebo Samuel (no relation). That's the kind of player he is.
I dont get the obsession with Samuel, he's not a great fit for us right now. I LOVE the fact that he is a local kid from BK, but we already have someone that does what he does We have a very good slot WR in Shepard, we dont need another slot guy. We need an outside threat. Samuel was the 3rd WR in Carolina's offense behind Moore and Anderson btw. Im not crazy about Golladay [hip injury], Davis [under performer], or Samuel [slot WR].... If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick I guess Id go Golladay, but his hip injury scares me a little bit. Unfortunately with our current cap status, we arent getting any of them. So lets hope Slayton and Engram remember how to catch the ball, and lets hope Shep doesnt get a concussion or else his career might be over Signing Samuel or Davis barely moves the needle on offense. It just gives us a bunch of #2's and forces us to rely on some luck to land Waddle or Pitts in the draft. Golloday solves all those problems and gives us flexibility in the draft. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 16:50:41 GMT -5
I'm hoping that will be the case with most, but I think the high end players wont be affected much.. the real bargins will come from the slightly above to middle of the pack FA, they're the ones I suspect will feel it the most. I think Golladay will be fine, but I thought about what you're saying and I hope its true, and it very well could be. I agree. The top guys will get their money I think the margins are too close. Let's say a team is needy at WR. You see Golladay and Samuel there. Both are dynamic players with lots left in the tank. I know for a fact Samuel will cost $5mm less on the cap. If I offer Golladay a contract and he declines I'm not wasting my time on him again. No courting, no flying out to view the facilities, no jumping thru hoops with his agent... im just moving on. Too many skilled players available (coupled with the hard cap number) to spend time on players who are looking to negotiate deals in their favor. I like this situation. Many players will get humbled this off-season. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 16:51:10 GMT -5
3 years ago while watching a Panthers game I said we need to bring Samuel home. Maybe this is our shot. I like his game and think he was very underutilized in Carolina. My issue with him Supposedly 4.38 speed 77 catches for 850 yards...a guy like this should feast post catch Something doesn't add up Look at his QBs lol I've watched film on him and Carolina even lined him up as a RB a few times to maximize his touches. Thats a good sign. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 16:52:58 GMT -5
Just not the way he was used last year. Anderson was the deep threat in Carolina. I think he can be used a lot more effectively than he was there.
I'm not saying that he's potentially a top 5 type WR. But I do think he can be a very effective weapon who defenses would have to account for.
Coincidently, he reminds me a lot of Deebo Samuel (no relation). That's the kind of player he is.
I dont get the obsession with Samuel, he's not a great fit for us right now. I LOVE the fact that he is a local kid from BK, but we already have someone that does what he does We have a very good slot WR in Shepard, we dont need another slot guy. We need an outside threat. Samuel was the 3rd WR in Carolina's offense behind Moore and Anderson btw. Im not crazy about Golladay [hip injury], Davis [under performer], or Samuel [slot WR].... If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick I guess Id go Golladay, but his hip injury scares me a little bit. Unfortunately with our current cap status, we arent getting any of them. So lets hope Slayton and Engram remember how to catch the ball, and lets hope Shep doesnt get a concussion or else his career might be over Samuel passes every eye test. He's just a dynamic WR with limit exposure. Just like Shepard. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 12, 2021 17:28:31 GMT -5
Maybe it's the Qbs they had in Carolina. They are run heavy also. 77 catches should get you a bare minimum of 1000 receiving yards.. That is why I am weary of these dynamic,short,sub 4.4 guys. For every Tyreek Hill there are ton of these type of guys. We should definitley stay away from the small fast types they rarely pan out. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 12, 2021 17:41:00 GMT -5
77 catches should get you a bare minimum of 1000 receiving yards.. That is why I am weary of these dynamic,short,sub 4.4 guys. For every Tyreek Hill there are ton of these type of guys. We should definitley stay away from the small fast types they rarely pan out. You mean like Odell,Brown,Cruz..ect? Nevermind all the big slow guys that bust because they can't get seperation |
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 12, 2021 17:47:34 GMT -5
I dont get the obsession with Samuel, he's not a great fit for us right now. I LOVE the fact that he is a local kid from BK, but we already have someone that does what he does We have a very good slot WR in Shepard, we dont need another slot guy. We need an outside threat. Samuel was the 3rd WR in Carolina's offense behind Moore and Anderson btw. Im not crazy about Golladay [hip injury], Davis [under performer], or Samuel [slot WR].... If I had a gun to my head and HAD to pick I guess Id go Golladay, but his hip injury scares me a little bit. Unfortunately with our current cap status, we arent getting any of them. So lets hope Slayton and Engram remember how to catch the ball, and lets hope Shep doesnt get a concussion or else his career might be over Samuel passes every eye test. He's just a dynamic WR with limit exposure. Just like Shepard. I liked him out of Ohio State. His role on Carolina was weird. Probably a good thing for us. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 12, 2021 18:12:03 GMT -5
That is why I am weary of these dynamic,short,sub 4.4 guys. For every Tyreek Hill there are ton of these type of guys. We should definitley stay away from the small fast types they rarely pan out. You mean like Odell,Brown,Cruz..ect? Nevermind all the big slow guys that bust because they can't get seperation I'm messing with you. I know you have a thing for the little fast guys. I would not be mad if the Giants picked up Samuel. I think he could be had for cheap and he is dynamic. I also think based on history Garret likes his recievers in the 6'1 range around 215 lbs or more and a speedscore hovering around 101 or better when I went through his past receivers. I don't know if he has changed this. The only outlier was Cole Beasley but I don't think he was used much while Garret was still OC at Dallas. I also don't know if speedscores have been replaced with stats from advanced analytics these days. |
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 12, 2021 18:43:18 GMT -5
I agree. The top guys will get their money I think the margins are too close. Let's say a team is needy at WR. You see Golladay and Samuel there. Both are dynamic players with lots left in the tank. I know for a fact Samuel will cost $5mm less on the cap. If I offer Golladay a contract and he declines I'm not wasting my time on him again. No courting, no flying out to view the facilities, no jumping thru hoops with his agent... im just moving on. Too many skilled players available (coupled with the hard cap number) to spend time on players who are looking to negotiate deals in their favor. I like this situation. Many players will get humbled this off-season. I agree ... just think that Golladay is one of the guys who will get his money. As you say, though, a lot of these guys will have to eat some humble pie |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 19:33:17 GMT -5
I think the margins are too close. Let's say a team is needy at WR. You see Golladay and Samuel there. Both are dynamic players with lots left in the tank. I know for a fact Samuel will cost $5mm less on the cap. If I offer Golladay a contract and he declines I'm not wasting my time on him again. No courting, no flying out to view the facilities, no jumping thru hoops with his agent... im just moving on. Too many skilled players available (coupled with the hard cap number) to spend time on players who are looking to negotiate deals in their favor. I like this situation. Many players will get humbled this off-season. I agree ... just think that Golladay is one of the guys who will get his money. As you say, though, a lot of these guys will have to eat some humble pie This is a GM's moment to shine. All of them are under a microscope at this point. The GM that wins the superbowl this year will be considered a legend in that circle. |
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