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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 20, 2021 9:10:03 GMT -5
I really like Ojulari a lot. Those long arms, he sticks it in the OT's chest and turns the corner around them. Sometimes he hits their arms with a hammer move. His outside move is a weapon.
Plus of course he's an actual Prince. His family is royalty.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 9:12:14 GMT -5
I really like Ojulari a lot. Those long arms, he sticks it in the OT's chest and turns the corner around them. Sometimes he hits their arms with a hammer move. His outside move is a weapon. Plus of course he's an actual Prince. His family is royalty. I think that I read that he was one of the first freshman captains in Georgia history. Judge will like that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 9:20:21 GMT -5
I really hope they don't take either of these guys at #11, I think it's a reach either way. I think Parsons is probably the only defensive player they might take at #11 if he is there...and that is if they don't believe he has character issues. However, I think Surtain could be a dark horse pick there if he is available, something nobody expects them to do...add a corner. Personally I hope they draft an offensive player at #11, either Sewell or Slater (who will probably both be gone) or one of the receivers. In Peter Schrager's latest mock, he has us taking Horn, with Slater and Smith still on the boards. I'll choke if that occurs!! Wait...just read, with Slater still on the board? That's a remote launch sequence
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 9:31:02 GMT -5
In Peter Schrager's latest mock, he has us taking Horn, with Slater and Smith still on the boards. I'll choke if that occurs!! Wait...just read, with Slater still on the board? That's a remote launch sequence Save your remote. Many of the same people hyping up Slater as a top 10 prospect right now are the same people who were projecting him as a last first early 2nd round talent prior to the 2020 season. I have to question how he improved so much in their eyes by not playing in 2020.
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Post by moecoastie on Apr 20, 2021 9:32:49 GMT -5
Wait...just read, with Slater still on the board? That's a remote launch sequence Save your remote. Many of the same people hyping up Slater as a top 10 prospect right now are the same people who were projecting him as a last first early 2nd round talent prior to the 2020 season. I have to question how he improved so much in their eyes by not playing in 2020. I remember hearing/reading this somewhere but I cant seem to find where
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 9:43:17 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 9:48:07 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. Bracing and preparing myself for this unfortunately Prepare for the worst and if they do the right thing be surprised and happy Like I was doing last year with Simmons..prepare for that horrible reach
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Post by Sarcasman on Apr 20, 2021 9:50:02 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. ****ing Judge is gonna ruin this draft!
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 9:51:20 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. I don't see it as a reach at all. Phillips, Paye and Ojulari are all highly regarded prospects. Phillips' positioning much depends on how people view his injury issues, but even those concerned about that agree he is a top 5 player in this draft without them. Paye I have rarely seen him mocked lower than 14 and have seen him often as the Denver or Dallas pick ahead of the Giants. So if most people see him going between 9-14, 11 is hardly a reach. Many people say Ojulari is the top edge player...is so, he is ahead of a top 5 talent in Phillips and a guy who is expected to go by 14. So again, 11 isn't a reach at all. Reach is a very overused term. If they use the 11th pick and get a excellent player there, I'm not really concern with where the studio talking heads projected he "should" go.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 9:55:36 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. I don't see it as a reach at all. Phillips, Paye and Ojulari are all highly regarded prospects. Phillips' positioning much depends on how people view his injury issues, but even those concerned about that agree he is a top 5 player in this draft without them. Paye I have rarely seen him mocked lower than 14 and have seen him often as the Denver or Dallas pick ahead of the Giants. So if most people see him going between 9-14, 11 is hardly a reach. Many people say Ojulari is the top edge player...is so, he is ahead of a top 5 talent in Phillips and a guy who is expected to go by 14. So again, 11 isn't a reach at all. Reach is a very overused term. If they use the 11th pick and get a excellent player there, I'm not really concern with where the studio talking heads projected he "should" go. Fair point ... if the guy we pick ends up being more impactful than the players that we pass up on, then no one will care where he was drafted. I'm mostly a wait-and-see guy anyway since I don't have the knowledge (or time) to watch film and scout players, so if that's the route they take, I'll hope for the best.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2021 9:57:57 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but the defensive players aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure.
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 10:12:52 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but they aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. I don't either, there are a lot of guys in this draft that I could see as good additions with the 11th pick. Take Paye for example. People will say, they could have traded back and got him. But with who? If it is expected that Minny is high on him and will take him, that leaves Philly and Chargers to trade back with. One will need to want to trade up. I don't see Phil doing it unless they expect the Giants to take the WR they want, which would mean the Giants would have no interest in trading down one spot to miss the guy they wanted to pick. Only reason they would is if they weren't planning on taking the WR, so what incentive would Philly have to move up. Chargers would have no need because Darrisaw and AVT are still on the board and expect at least one of them to be there without the move. I see neither of these teams as viable trade partners. A trade down would likely put you at 15 at the highest and you would likely miss Paye to the Vikings. So if Paye is the player you want and is a "reach" at 11, but you wouldn't get him in any viable trade back, how is he a reach at 11?
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 10:13:59 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but the defensive players aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. Well, would you be unhappy if we took an Edge with Slater and/or one of the WR's on the board?
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 10:16:17 GMT -5
It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but they aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. I don't either, there are a lot of guys in this draft that I could see as good additions with the 11th pick. Take Paye for example. People will say, they could have traded back and got him. But with who? If it is expected that Minny is high on him and will take him, that leaves Philly and Chargers to trade back with. One will need to want to trade up. I don't see Phil doing it unless they expect the Giants to take the WR they want, which would mean the Giants would have no interest in trading down one spot to miss the guy they wanted to pick. Only reason they would is if they weren't planning on taking the WR, so what incentive would Philly have to move up. Chargers would have no need because Darrisaw and AVT are still on the board and expect at least one of them to be there without the move. I see neither of these teams as viable trade partners. A trade down would likely put you at 15 at the highest and you would likely miss Paye to the Vikings. So if Paye is the player you want and is a "reach" at 11, but you wouldn't get him in any viable trade back, how is he a reach at 11? You generally don't trade back with one player in mind (at least you shouldn't unless you are trading back one spot). You trade back a certain number of spots knowing that you are guaranteed to get one of a certain group of players at that spot.
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Post by lexington11 on Apr 20, 2021 10:20:51 GMT -5
Both reek of bust.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 10:26:00 GMT -5
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 10:27:27 GMT -5
As the draft draws near and with the fact that D. Smith (what I think is the Giants #1 target) is off the board at 11, what do they do? I believe it will come down to these two players if they dont trade down, it wouldn't be this way for me but from what im reading/hearing they are going EDGE. Between these two? id be happy with Ojulari. To me, Paye is a reach. He's a high floor player who doesn't have any pass rush moves, very raw. However, he's a great player against the run. I'd rather go over Phillips if they force EDGE, but I think the Giants choose between these two players. I think Phillips is the best edge player in this draft. But his injury history scares me. So after him Paye is my preferred player. He is really a great all around player. Maybe not the guy if all you want is the best possible pass rusher, but a guy who can do it all from the edge position and will provide more on a down to down basis than anyone else. The thing with Paye is he reminds me of a strongside 4-3 EDGE (like Justin Tuck), or in our scheme, more of an undersized 5 tech (like LW but smaller). Im not sure I see the scheme fit but our DC is a lot smarter than me. Paye also has nothing outside of a bull rush when pass rushing though I have faith he can be a much better rusher. He has the physical ability Phillips is so good its almost underrated, he has a spin, a rip, speed and bull rush. He's so versatile and athletic, reminds me of Joey/Nick Bosa. To me? any NFL player can get injured on any snap, doing anything, at just about any time. Hard to predict, Giants have taken "clean" prospects almost every year yet they get stuck with a guy that gets hurt and is never the same more often than not. Phillips to me is worth the #11 pick based on skillset. If we're wanting EDGE in the first round he's who I would draft. Especially over a guy like Parsons.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2021 10:28:55 GMT -5
It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but the defensive players aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. Well, would you be unhappy if we took an Edge with Slater and/or one of the WR's on the board? Yes. Slater? I could actually see the Giants going defense instead then addressing the OL a bit later.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 10:29:56 GMT -5
I think Phillips is the best edge player in this draft. But his injury history scares me. So after him Paye is my preferred player. He is really a great all around player. Maybe not the guy if all you want is the best possible pass rusher, but a guy who can do it all from the edge position and will provide more on a down to down basis than anyone else. The thing with Paye is he reminds me of a strongside 4-3 EDGE (like Justin Tuck), or in our scheme, more of an undersized 5 tech (like LW but smaller). Im not sure I see the scheme fit but our DC is a lot smarter than me. Paye also has nothing outside of a bull rush when pass rushing though I have faith he can be a much better rusher. He has the physical ability Phillips is so good its almost underrated, he has a spin, a rip, speed and bull rush. He's so versatile and athletics. To me? any NFL player can get injured on any snap, doing anything, at just about any time. Phillips to me is worth the #11 pick based on skillset. If we're wanting EDGE in the first round he's who I would draft. Especially over a guy like Parsons. If we go Edge at 11, I will take solace in the fact that Judge and Graham (who I trust) likely had significant input in the decision.
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 10:30:38 GMT -5
I don't either, there are a lot of guys in this draft that I could see as good additions with the 11th pick. Take Paye for example. People will say, they could have traded back and got him. But with who? If it is expected that Minny is high on him and will take him, that leaves Philly and Chargers to trade back with. One will need to want to trade up. I don't see Phil doing it unless they expect the Giants to take the WR they want, which would mean the Giants would have no interest in trading down one spot to miss the guy they wanted to pick. Only reason they would is if they weren't planning on taking the WR, so what incentive would Philly have to move up. Chargers would have no need because Darrisaw and AVT are still on the board and expect at least one of them to be there without the move. I see neither of these teams as viable trade partners. A trade down would likely put you at 15 at the highest and you would likely miss Paye to the Vikings. So if Paye is the player you want and is a "reach" at 11, but you wouldn't get him in any viable trade back, how is he a reach at 11? You generally don't trade back with one player in mind (at least you shouldn't unless you are trading back one spot). You trade back a certain number of spots knowing that you are guaranteed to get one of a certain group of players at that spot. Agreed, which is my point. Personally I have 17 players I might use pick 11 on. I stack them up in rows of equal value based on my opinion of the players. They go like this as of this moment. Row 1: Trevor Lawrence Row 2: Ja'Marr Chaes, Kyle Pitts Row 3: Penei Sewell, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith Row 4: Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Rashawn Slater, Patrick Surtain, Kwity Paye, Jaelan Phillips Row 5: Jaycee Horn, Azeez Ojulari, Zaven Collins Row 6: Christian Darrisaw, Rashod Bateman, Joe Tryon So if anyone in the first 3 are there at 11, I would prefer them to any of the edge rushers, but not by a whole lot. One thing I know is that I know a whole lot less about these guys than the Giants, particularly this year with so little play time for many of them. Parsons remains off my list because I have no idea about the off the field stuff. I trust the Giants judgement on this as they have his former position coach on staff. If he were here, ignoring the off field stuff, he'd be in row 2.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 10:33:33 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but the defensive players aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. It's the possible worst case scenario and we can't (or Grampa Gettleman doesn't bother to try to)trade back It's kinda a reach no matter what then Then it's try not to get Cedric Jones 2.0. in this case I would err on the side of caution and take AVT as he has a very high floor and is a position of need (RG)
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 10:34:13 GMT -5
I think Phillips is the best edge player in this draft. But his injury history scares me. So after him Paye is my preferred player. He is really a great all around player. Maybe not the guy if all you want is the best possible pass rusher, but a guy who can do it all from the edge position and will provide more on a down to down basis than anyone else. The thing with Paye is he reminds me of a strongside 4-3 EDGE (like Justin Tuck), or in our scheme, more of an undersized 5 tech (like LW but smaller). Im not sure I see the scheme fit but our DC is a lot smarter than me. Paye also has nothing outside of a bull rush when pass rushing though I have faith he can be a much better rusher. He has the physical ability Phillips is so good its almost underrated, he has a spin, a rip, speed and bull rush. He's so versatile and athletic, reminds me of Joey/Nick Bosa. To me? any NFL player can get injured on any snap, doing anything, at just about any time. Hard to predict, Giants have taken "clean" prospects almost every year yet they get stuck with a guy that gets hurt and is never the same more often than not. Phillips to me is worth the #11 pick based on skillset. If we're wanting EDGE in the first round he's who I would draft. Especially over a guy like Parsons. Fair enough, instead of retyping I'll share what I posted on another thread about Paye. FWIW
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 10:35:13 GMT -5
Well you did watch Paye and have posted your opinion of him Which echos what a lot say about him,especially with this defense
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Post by Sarcasman on Apr 20, 2021 10:36:28 GMT -5
It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but they aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. I don't either, there are a lot of guys in this draft that I could see as good additions with the 11th pick. Take Paye for example. People will say, they could have traded back and got him. But with who? If it is expected that Minny is high on him and will take him, that leaves Philly and Chargers to trade back with. One will need to want to trade up. I don't see Phil doing it unless they expect the Giants to take the WR they want, which would mean the Giants would have no interest in trading down one spot to miss the guy they wanted to pick. Only reason they would is if they weren't planning on taking the WR, so what incentive would Philly have to move up. Chargers would have no need because Darrisaw and AVT are still on the board and expect at least one of them to be there without the move. I see neither of these teams as viable trade partners. A trade down would likely put you at 15 at the highest and you would likely miss Paye to the Vikings. So if Paye is the player you want and is a "reach" at 11, but you wouldn't get him in any viable trade back, how is he a reach at 11? That’s not how we do it here. When we say they should have traded back for a King’s ransom, we mean just that. Working out whether there is a desire by some other team or even if there is any other team looking to do so is never a part of the equation.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2021 10:45:14 GMT -5
It could only happen if all the receivers and Slater are gone and there are no trade offers. I don't believe the Giants would pass up Waddle or Smith but the defensive players aren't reaches if everyone else is gone. I don't see any situation where we could possibly be unhappy with whatever pick we make. But many will I'm sure. It's the possible worst case scenario and we can't (or Grampa Gettleman doesn't bother to try to)trade backIt's kinda a reach no matter what then Then it's try not to get Cedric Jones 2.0. in this case I would err on the side of caution and take AVT as he has a very high floor and is a position of need (RG) I think they will but you need a willing participant. If no one is there and you can't trade, you're stuck with the options you have.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 20, 2021 10:55:17 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said except the whole team being blown up, the only that will change will be they will be actively be looking to draft or sign a QB next draft/ free agent cycle. The team if the talent is right will remain, the QB at some point will be replaced. Kind of like what happened in Dallas they were building to keep Romo upright he didn't make it through Pre Season Dak did just fine, the team is built for who ever is under center and they better be able to run the offense and win once the talent is in place. That said OL / WR think DJ has enough of what it takes lets finish it off and see what he's got. Yeah, poor choice of words with "whole team". My bad. The GM and QB get tapped out...Judge will get a new QB and GM. Jeez, we have to take OL/WR and offense...this team needs some stability going forward....not sure I can deal with more changes on a once stable proud franchise. 1000% OL or WR in any order it's a good class for both. The only way I see them going any other way is if Judge/ Spencer / Graham. Convince DG that Parsons is a good kid that can be tamed, not saying it's right but it's possible if the crew wants him. That said a good indicator would be where Chris Pettit has been spending his time. Think Sarretella said his scouts have seen him everywhere coach to coast.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 20, 2021 10:57:01 GMT -5
I really like Ojulari a lot. Those long arms, he sticks it in the OT's chest and turns the corner around them. Sometimes he hits their arms with a hammer move. His outside move is a weapon. Plus of course he's an actual Prince. His family is royalty. I think that I read that he was one of the first freshman captains in Georgia history. Judge will like that. Judge has respect for Smart if he gives him the it could happen.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 10:59:23 GMT -5
The thing with Paye is he reminds me of a strongside 4-3 EDGE (like Justin Tuck), or in our scheme, more of an undersized 5 tech (like LW but smaller). Im not sure I see the scheme fit but our DC is a lot smarter than me. Paye also has nothing outside of a bull rush when pass rushing though I have faith he can be a much better rusher. He has the physical ability Phillips is so good its almost underrated, he has a spin, a rip, speed and bull rush. He's so versatile and athletic, reminds me of Joey/Nick Bosa. To me? any NFL player can get injured on any snap, doing anything, at just about any time. Hard to predict, Giants have taken "clean" prospects almost every year yet they get stuck with a guy that gets hurt and is never the same more often than not. Phillips to me is worth the #11 pick based on skillset. If we're wanting EDGE in the first round he's who I would draft. Especially over a guy like Parsons. Fair enough, instead of retyping I'll share what I posted on another thread about Paye. FWIW Agreed on all fronts. I was going to say i've seen him line up from a 2 and 3 point stance and his agility and power are underrated. His work in the run game is truly spectacular. Gives him a high floor, if he can 'learn' to do that I think he can learn to be a pass rusher. However, its still a projection and not something we know for sure.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:01:18 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. WR's typically go lower, and EDGE's go higher in real life when compared than media mocks. I bet Joe Tryon will be a top 20 pick, reminds me a lot of Danielle Hunter coming out and the league will love that
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 11:05:37 GMT -5
Fair enough, instead of retyping I'll share what I posted on another thread about Paye. FWIW Agreed on all fronts. I was going to say i've seen him line up from a 2 and 3 point stance and his agility and power are underrated. His work in the run game is truly spectacular. Gives him a high floor, if he can 'learn' to do that I think he can learn to be a pass rusher. However, its still a projection and not something we know for sure. True, but if you are looking for a player that will make an impact in year one and be a long term player, Paye is a good pick. Whether or not he achieves the level you want at the position is a question and I think that has more to do with his coaching and his attitude. He is reportedly a very high character and hard working player. If you trust your coaches ability to get the best out of him, he is likely the best possible defensive player in this draft. High floor, high character, very high ceiling player. Bet on that 100 out of 100 times if you think you have good coaching on your staff.
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