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Post by piddy283 on Apr 20, 2021 11:10:52 GMT -5
Hell of they are going to reach on defense Zevon Collins This has actually become my stance, and the more I watch him the less I think he's a reach. Dude looks huge, he can move and cover, and he hits. I'm still leaning towards WR or OL, but Collins would be OK with me.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:12:40 GMT -5
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 20, 2021 11:13:25 GMT -5
Hell of they are going to reach on defense Zevon Collins This has actually become my stance, and the more I watch him the less I think he's a reach. Dude looks huge, he can move and cover, and he hits. I'm still leaning towards WR or OL, but Collins would be OK with me. Of the two from the OP, I'd go with the kid from UGA. Looks to be a better fit for what we need.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:16:34 GMT -5
Agreed on all fronts. I was going to say i've seen him line up from a 2 and 3 point stance and his agility and power are underrated. His work in the run game is truly spectacular. Gives him a high floor, if he can 'learn' to do that I think he can learn to be a pass rusher. However, its still a projection and not something we know for sure. True, but if you are looking for a player that will make an impact in year one and be a long term player, Paye is a good pick. Whether or not he achieves the level you want at the position is a question and I think that has more to do with his coaching and his attitude. He is reportedly a very high character and hard working player. If you trust your coaches ability to get the best out of him, he is likely the best possible defensive player in this draft. High floor, high character, very high ceiling player. Bet on that 100 out of 100 times if you think you have good coaching on your staff. I think he checks all the boxes outside of pass rush ability. If we target him and trade down it'll be perfect
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 20, 2021 11:16:54 GMT -5
As mentioned in other posts, the chance of this happening is real. It would be fantastic to do so this year.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 11:19:45 GMT -5
This has actually become my stance, and the more I watch him the less I think he's a reach. Dude looks huge, he can move and cover, and he hits. I'm still leaning towards WR or OL, but Collins would be OK with me. Of the two from the OP, I'd go with the kid from UGA. Looks to be a better fit for what we need. Gun to my head and no other choices that's where I would go And I have a feeling that is who the Giants take Much more versatile and has actual production (which both Getty and Judge )want from a top pick
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 11:20:23 GMT -5
To quote Palpatine DO IT!
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:22:58 GMT -5
To quote Palpatine DO IT! Trading down is almost always the best solution. Taking more shots in a imperfect science. Glad the Giants are figuring this out
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:24:02 GMT -5
This has actually become my stance, and the more I watch him the less I think he's a reach. Dude looks huge, he can move and cover, and he hits. I'm still leaning towards WR or OL, but Collins would be OK with me. Of the two from the OP, I'd go with the kid from UGA. Looks to be a better fit for what we need. Azeez has a dirty speed rush. Haven't seen many stop it. To me, he or Phillips is worth of the #11 from a skillset perspective. Pass rush is important, these two are the best IMO
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 11:24:21 GMT -5
Hell of they are going to reach on defense Zevon Collins This has actually become my stance, and the more I watch him the less I think he's a reach. Dude looks huge, he can move and cover, and he hits. I'm still leaning towards WR or OL, but Collins would be OK with me. Dare I say he reminds me of Carl Banks.... A rare old school linebacker that would flourish in the modern era Can play inside and out..freakish arm length Do not be surprised at all if Graham has camped outside Gettlemans office for the next 2 weeks with a Zevon Collins sign on him .. He legit is the perfect piece for this defense mid level. We have no idea how these teams big boards are set up..I suspect they will differ bigt8me from what we are led to believe... If we are in this situation all bets are off TBH
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 11:27:48 GMT -5
To quote Palpatine DO IT! Trading down is almost always the best solution. Taking more shots in a imperfect science. Glad the Giants are figuring this out Especially this year When you have such a weak edge rush class that dilutes a lot of the usual value early in the draft and then an unusually deep IOL class ,op outs,the best front 7 guy with major red flags and the best edge rusher with a dangerous concussion issue If your scenario happens as far as I'm concerned,other than Zevon Collins there really os no drop off from our pick till arguably past our pick at 72 Get more picks in this range
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:28:17 GMT -5
This has actually become my stance, and the more I watch him the less I think he's a reach. Dude looks huge, he can move and cover, and he hits. I'm still leaning towards WR or OL, but Collins would be OK with me. Dare I say he reminds me of Carl Banks.... A rare old school linebacker that would flourish in the modern era Can play inside and out..freakish arm length Do not be surprised at all if Graham has camped outside Gettlemans office for the next 2 weeks with a Zevon Collins sign on him .. He legit is the perfect piece for this defense mid level. We have no idea how these teams big boards are set up..I suspect they will differ bigt8me from what we are led to believe... If we are in this situation all bets are off TBH I bet you the Giants envision him as a Donta Hightower in their scheme. Excellent player. best believe Judge is aware. My only concern is his athletic times weren't much to speak about but his has tremendous instincts.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:33:33 GMT -5
Gettlemen/Abrams pressor is on folks. Ill see if i can glean any info
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:37:58 GMT -5
Abrams is a sharp cat
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 11:38:40 GMT -5
Hell of they are going to reach on defense Zevon Collins ...Or JOK ...Or Horn ... Or Joe Tryon
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 20, 2021 11:44:01 GMT -5
Of the two from the OP, I'd go with the kid from UGA. Looks to be a better fit for what we need. Azeez has a dirty speed rush. Haven't seen many stop it. To me, he or Phillips is worth of the #11 from a skillset perspective. Pass rush is important, these two are the best IMO Yea, Phillips is my favorite too. He looked natural in the little I watched.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 20, 2021 11:44:16 GMT -5
and apparently does all the negotiating per DG
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 11:45:10 GMT -5
I always find the notion that DG isn't interested in trading down because he never has. As if 8 is a sample size large enough to draw a conclusion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 11:45:12 GMT -5
I don't either, there are a lot of guys in this draft that I could see as good additions with the 11th pick. Take Paye for example. People will say, they could have traded back and got him. But with who? If it is expected that Minny is high on him and will take him, that leaves Philly and Chargers to trade back with. One will need to want to trade up. I don't see Phil doing it unless they expect the Giants to take the WR they want, which would mean the Giants would have no interest in trading down one spot to miss the guy they wanted to pick. Only reason they would is if they weren't planning on taking the WR, so what incentive would Philly have to move up. Chargers would have no need because Darrisaw and AVT are still on the board and expect at least one of them to be there without the move. I see neither of these teams as viable trade partners. A trade down would likely put you at 15 at the highest and you would likely miss Paye to the Vikings. So if Paye is the player you want and is a "reach" at 11, but you wouldn't get him in any viable trade back, how is he a reach at 11? You generally don't trade back with one player in mind (at least you shouldn't unless you are trading back one spot). You trade back a certain number of spots knowing that you are guaranteed to get one of a certain group of players at that spot. Yep...clusters of similar grades. Plus, a lot of knowledge of what other teams are going to do...our intelligence department per say...disguised and well equipped with strippers and Johnny Walker to totally distract Jerry Jones as we sneak into the war room to snap photographs of their big board.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 11:45:32 GMT -5
Abrams is a financial genius for us My issue is he has no experience with scouting or whatnot to be promoted Then again he could be more a CEO type and lean on Petit and our coaches
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Post by GameTime on Apr 20, 2021 11:45:32 GMT -5
Gettlemen/Abrams pressor is on folks. Ill see if i can glean any info you think they like each other?
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 11:46:43 GMT -5
True, but if you are looking for a player that will make an impact in year one and be a long term player, Paye is a good pick. Whether or not he achieves the level you want at the position is a question and I think that has more to do with his coaching and his attitude. He is reportedly a very high character and hard working player. If you trust your coaches ability to get the best out of him, he is likely the best possible defensive player in this draft. High floor, high character, very high ceiling player. Bet on that 100 out of 100 times if you think you have good coaching on your staff. I think he checks all the boxes outside of pass rush ability. If we target him and trade down it'll be perfect Unlikely you get a trade down into a position where he is still available.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 20, 2021 11:46:43 GMT -5
Azeez has a dirty speed rush. Haven't seen many stop it. To me, he or Phillips is worth of the #11 from a skillset perspective. Pass rush is important, these two are the best IMO Yea, Phillips is my favorite too. He looked natural in the little I watched. He is spent a year and half on injured, switched schools and made people forget about Rousseau. He is the dark horse.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 20, 2021 11:55:39 GMT -5
Abrams is a financial genius for us My issue is he has no experience with scouting or whatnot to be promoted Then again he could be more a CEO type and lean on Petit and our coaches Abrams looks like has no desire to be doing this interview or thats just his personality
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 11:56:37 GMT -5
Gettlemen/Abrams pressor is on folks. Ill see if i can glean any info you think they like each other? I think they differ on their takes on roster building, but really guessing at this point. I was just thinking about how hard it is to have a plan for either of them when you have so many cooks in the kitchen. Everyone has their own take
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 11:56:50 GMT -5
I feel like we are all trying to convince ourselves that we won't reach for an Edge at 11, but we all know deep down that this is exactly what they are going to do. WR's typically go lower, and EDGE's go higher in real life when compared than media mocks. I bet Joe Tryon will be a top 20 pick, reminds me a lot of Danielle Hunter coming out and the league will love that And id take him over Paye or Olujari BTW according to NFL.com here are their overall ratings -Paye 6.44 -Olujari 6.39 -Tryon 6.31 Also Phillips is a 6.39 www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/EDGE?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL&year=2021
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Post by GameTime on Apr 20, 2021 11:58:19 GMT -5
you think they like each other? I think they differ on their takes on roster building, but really guessing at this point. I was just thinking about how hard it is to have a plan for either of them when you have so many cooks in the kitchen. Everyone has their own take it has to be a group effort to some degree. You need checks and balances. With that said there has to be a singular focus or plan of course. Not sure of Abrams take on team building? Since he mostly a money guy.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 12:08:32 GMT -5
You generally don't trade back with one player in mind (at least you shouldn't unless you are trading back one spot). You trade back a certain number of spots knowing that you are guaranteed to get one of a certain group of players at that spot. Agreed, which is my point. Personally I have 17 players I might use pick 11 on. I stack them up in rows of equal value based on my opinion of the players. They go like this as of this moment. Row 1: Trevor Lawrence Row 2: Ja'Marr Chaes, Kyle Pitts Row 3: Penei Sewell, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith Row 4: Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Rashawn Slater, Patrick Surtain, Kwity Paye, Jaelan Phillips Row 5: Jaycee Horn, Azeez Ojulari, Zaven Collins Row 6: Christian Darrisaw, Rashod Bateman, Joe Tryon So if anyone in the first 3 are there at 11, I would prefer them to any of the edge rushers, but not by a whole lot. One thing I know is that I know a whole lot less about these guys than the Giants, particularly this year with so little play time for many of them. Parsons remains off my list because I have no idea about the off the field stuff. I trust the Giants judgement on this as they have his former position coach on staff. If he were here, ignoring the off field stuff, he'd be in row 2. My big board looks pretty similar with a few minor changes Row 1: Trevor Lawrence Row 2: Kyle Pitts, Penei Sewell Row 3: Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith, Rashawn Slater, Row 4: Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Jaycee Horn, Joe Tryon, Rashod Bateman Row 5: Azeez Ojulari, Zaven Collins, Christian Darrisaw, Patrick Surtain, Kwity Paye, Jaelan Phillips
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 12:10:09 GMT -5
Agreed, which is my point. Personally I have 17 players I might use pick 11 on. I stack them up in rows of equal value based on my opinion of the players. They go like this as of this moment. Row 1: Trevor Lawrence Row 2: Ja'Marr Chaes, Kyle Pitts Row 3: Penei Sewell, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith Row 4: Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Rashawn Slater, Patrick Surtain, Kwity Paye, Jaelan Phillips Row 5: Jaycee Horn, Azeez Ojulari, Zaven Collins Row 6: Christian Darrisaw, Rashod Bateman, Joe Tryon So if anyone in the first 3 are there at 11, I would prefer them to any of the edge rushers, but not by a whole lot. One thing I know is that I know a whole lot less about these guys than the Giants, particularly this year with so little play time for many of them. Parsons remains off my list because I have no idea about the off the field stuff. I trust the Giants judgement on this as they have his former position coach on staff. If he were here, ignoring the off field stuff, he'd be in row 2. My big board looks pretty similar with a few minor changes Row 1: Trevor Lawrence Row 2: Kyle Pitts, Penei Sewell Row 3: Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith, Rashawn Slater, Row 4: Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Jaycee Horn, Joe Tryon, Rashod Bateman Row 5: Azeez Ojulari, Zaven Collins, Christian Darrisaw, Patrick Surtain, Kwity Paye, Jaelan Phillips I'm swapping Collins with Tryon and have him at the very top of that tier..
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 12:21:27 GMT -5
My big board looks pretty similar with a few minor changes Row 1: Trevor Lawrence Row 2: Kyle Pitts, Penei Sewell Row 3: Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith, Rashawn Slater, Row 4: Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Jaycee Horn, Joe Tryon, Rashod Bateman Row 5: Azeez Ojulari, Zaven Collins, Christian Darrisaw, Patrick Surtain, Kwity Paye, Jaelan Phillips I'm swapping Collins with Tryon and have him at the very top of that tier.. I know Collins has been your dude for a minute now, but is he really that valuable at 11. Do you imagine him playing a Devin White [6'1, 237lb] or Devin Bush [5'11 234lb] type of role for us, or more of an OLB/Edge role Upon research, I didnt realize how big Collins actually was, he's 6'5 259lb, the same size as Joe Tryon who is more of a pass rushing Edge/OLB Do we want 2 well rounded OLB's like Zo Carter AND Collins, or do we want 1 all around guy like Carter and a pass rush specialist like Tyron
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