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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 12:30:56 GMT -5
Give you guys an idea as to how athletic Phillips is. A complete freak. More athletic than Mack, JPP, Cam Wake, Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan, Clay Matthews etc.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 12:39:34 GMT -5
I'm swapping Collins with Tryon and have him at the very top of that tier.. I know Collins has been your dude for a minute now, but is he really that valuable at 11. Do you imagine him playing a Devin White [6'1, 237lb] or Devin Bush [5'11 234lb] type of role for us, or more of an OLB/Edge role Upon research, I didnt realize how big Collins actually was, he's 6'5 259lb, the same size as Joe Tryon who is more of a pass rushing Edge/OLB Do we want 2 well rounded OLB's like Zo Carter AND Collins, or do we want 1 all around guy like Carter and a pass rush specialist like Tyron 2 well rounded guys And Carter probably walks after this year as he is an UFA in 2022
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rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
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Post by rbe40 on Apr 20, 2021 12:47:16 GMT -5
As the draft draws near and with the fact that D. Smith (what I think is the Giants #1 target) is off the board at 11, what do they do? I believe it will come down to these two players if they dont trade down, it wouldn't be this way for me but from what im reading/hearing they are going EDGE. Between these two? id be happy with Ojulari. To me, Paye is a reach. He's a high floor player who doesn't have any pass rush moves, very raw. However, he's a great player against the run. I'd rather go over Phillips if they force EDGE, but I think the Giants choose between these two players. The Giants do not need an EDGE nor are they prioritizing it.
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rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
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Post by rbe40 on Apr 20, 2021 12:48:13 GMT -5
Give you guys an idea as to how athletic Phillips is. A complete freak. More athletic than Mack, JPP, Cam Wake, Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan, Clay Matthews etc. Once again, that is a devalued position in the Giants defense and they are not going there early.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 12:51:41 GMT -5
As the draft draws near and with the fact that D. Smith (what I think is the Giants #1 target) is off the board at 11, what do they do? I believe it will come down to these two players if they dont trade down, it wouldn't be this way for me but from what im reading/hearing they are going EDGE. Between these two? id be happy with Ojulari. To me, Paye is a reach. He's a high floor player who doesn't have any pass rush moves, very raw. However, he's a great player against the run. I'd rather go over Phillips if they force EDGE, but I think the Giants choose between these two players. The Giants do not need an EDGE nor are they prioritizing it. So who are you selecting if the top 4 pass catchers,Sewell and Slater are all gone by 11? I don't disagree with you but this scenario is possible
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 13:06:40 GMT -5
The Giants do not need an EDGE nor are they prioritizing it. So who are you selecting if the top 4 pass catchers,Sewell and Slater are all gone by 11? I don't disagree with you but this scenario is possible AVT, Jenkins, Surtain, Paye or Phillips Not sure which of them. I'd say Phillips if I knew his health isn't an issue.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 13:10:31 GMT -5
The Giants do not need an EDGE nor are they prioritizing it. So who are you selecting if the top 4 pass catchers,Sewell and Slater are all gone by 11? I don't disagree with you but this scenario is possible Austin Vera-Tucker, Teven Jenkins, Jaycee Horn, Joe Tryon, Rashod Bateman or Zaven Collins
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 13:11:23 GMT -5
So who are you selecting if the top 4 pass catchers,Sewell and Slater are all gone by 11? I don't disagree with you but this scenario is possible AVT, Jenkins, Surtain, Paye or Phillips Not sure which of them. I'd say Phillips if I knew his health isn't an issue. I also dont like how he questioned weather he still had love for the game and almost retired
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 13:13:35 GMT -5
AVT, Jenkins, Surtain, Paye or Phillips Not sure which of them. I'd say Phillips if I knew his health isn't an issue. I also dont like how he questioned weather he still had love for the game and almost retired this video is a little long, but goes through his whole story. I thought it was great and will give you more context on Phillips, I dont think he ever lost his desire to play football, just had some bad luck. Check it out I believe he's realistically in play for a first round selection. Peter King was talking today about how he heard things linking the Giants and Phillips.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 20, 2021 13:16:58 GMT -5
The Giants do not need an EDGE nor are they prioritizing it. So who are you selecting if the top 4 pass catchers,Sewell and Slater are all gone by 11? I don't disagree with you but this scenario is possible correct, they need to be prepared for all scenarios, or you end up with Cedric Jones.
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 13:45:43 GMT -5
So who are you selecting if the top 4 pass catchers,Sewell and Slater are all gone by 11? I don't disagree with you but this scenario is possible correct, they need to be prepared for all scenarios, or you end up with Cedric Jones. Cedric Jones isn't available in this draft.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 13:49:13 GMT -5
correct, they need to be prepared for all scenarios, or you end up with Cedric Jones. Cedric Jones isn't available in this draft. But Paye is... Same potential disaster pick
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 13:55:57 GMT -5
Cedric Jones isn't available in this draft. But Paye is... Same potential disaster pick I think you need to watch more of Paye.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 20, 2021 13:59:08 GMT -5
But Paye is... Same potential disaster pick I think you need to watch more of Paye. I actually think that Paye has a low "bust" potential. Not sure that he has the upside that I would want in a #11 pick, but I think that at worst he will be an above-average player.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2021 13:59:26 GMT -5
But Paye is... Same potential disaster pick I think you need to watch more of Paye. Agreed, scouts love the guy. I haven't heard a bad thing about him. You can say he's a better fit in a pure 4-3, but the Giants are clearly interested in him.
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 14:01:10 GMT -5
I think you need to watch more of Paye. I actually think that Paye has a low "bust" potential. Not sure that he has the upside that I would want in a #11 pick, but I think that at worst he will be an above-average player. Agreed.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 14:03:55 GMT -5
But Paye is... Same potential disaster pick I think you need to watch more of Paye. How much more od Paye do I have to watch to brainwash myself into changing my mind Bad fit scheme wise,low.productuon,bad bend.... Its like last year when the Simmons groupies kept telling me to go back and watch after posting vid clips of every Dobbins big play he was responsible for ...
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 14:04:49 GMT -5
I think you need to watch more of Paye. Agreed, scouts love the guy. I haven't heard a bad thing about him. You can say he's a better fit in a pure 4-3, but the Giants are clearly interested in him. I think they are interested because he can do so much on the defense. As a pure edge player, there are better guys or more prototypical guys in this draft, but Paye can be and has been moved around a lot. I really like him as a player, but people want an outside rush guy around here and he isn't the best in this draft at that, though still good. But he brings more to the table than most of them.
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 14:16:21 GMT -5
I think you need to watch more of Paye. How much more od Paye do I have to watch to brainwash myself into changing my mind Bad fit scheme wise,low.productuon,bad bend.... Its like last year when the Simmons groupies kept telling me to go back and watch after posting vid clips of every Dobbins big play he was responsible for ... Well, I wasn't a fan of Simmons either. If you watch him play you will see a player who makes an impact on nearly every single snap. Might not show up on the stat sheet though. If you think he is a bad fit for this scheme, I suggest you go watch some Giants games from the 2020 season. He is most definitely a fit, just might not be what you want from a pure edge player. But since he isn't such a player, I wouldn't expect him to be. I don't care if you don't like the guy, he isn't my favorite player for the spot either. But your hyperbole on the subject makes you sound like you are not coming from a place of knowledge on the subject. He will likely be drafted in the top half of the first round by people who know quite a bit more on this than either of us do. I would think that would make you ponder whether or not you have the right read on him. Made me rethink my earlier position on him anyway. Players bust all the time, but I don't see anything in this kid that makes him a higher than normal risk of that. Phillips, Parsons, Smith, Waddle, Horn, and all the QBs, to name a few have a higher bust potential due to injury or other risks than Paye does.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2021 14:30:30 GMT -5
Agreed, scouts love the guy. I haven't heard a bad thing about him. You can say he's a better fit in a pure 4-3, but the Giants are clearly interested in him. I think they are interested because he can do so much on the defense. As a pure edge player, there are better guys or more prototypical guys in this draft, but Paye can be and has been moved around a lot. I really like him as a player, but people want an outside rush guy around here and he isn't the best in this draft at that, though still good. But he brings more to the table than most of them. Justin Tuck wasn't a pure edge rusher either. The bottom line is Paye would make this defense better.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 14:34:50 GMT -5
I think they are interested because he can do so much on the defense. As a pure edge player, there are better guys or more prototypical guys in this draft, but Paye can be and has been moved around a lot. I really like him as a player, but people want an outside rush guy around here and he isn't the best in this draft at that, though still good. But he brings more to the table than most of them. Justin Tuck wasn't a pure edge rusher either. The bottom line is Paye would make this defense better. We also played a 4/3 where his skillsets fit (and it took him 3 years to find his niche) You cannot take a square peg at 11 with not knowing how to use a player for a few years when rookie contracts run out sooner than later So no he will be a non factor this year and possibly next ... He potential makes a 4/3 defense better sooner ... We cannot take this player at 11
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 14:40:09 GMT -5
I think they are interested because he can do so much on the defense. As a pure edge player, there are better guys or more prototypical guys in this draft, but Paye can be and has been moved around a lot. I really like him as a player, but people want an outside rush guy around here and he isn't the best in this draft at that, though still good. But he brings more to the table than most of them. Justin Tuck wasn't a pure edge rusher either. The bottom line is Paye would make this defense better. Agreed. The only question is will another player make it better than he will? Heck, if I watched as much on Ojulari, I might like him better. But I decided to watch a bunch on Paye because things weren't adding up with him. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he isn't even there. I could see Denver nabbing him at 9. Top 3 are QBs 4 is Pitts or a trade up for a QB, but I think Pitts Chase and Sewell go in some order in the next two picks 7 is where things go off the rails a bit. Does Detroit trade out? I think there is a good shot. But they really could go in many different directions with the pick if the keep it. They may take a QB themselves. Is Goff their long term plans or a place holder to get a Fields or Lance ready? Key pick in this draft IMO.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2021 14:43:02 GMT -5
Justin Tuck wasn't a pure edge rusher either. The bottom line is Paye would make this defense better. We also played a 4/3 where his skillsets fit (and it took him 3 years to find his niche) You cannot take a square peg at 11 with not knowing how to use a player for a few years when rookie contracts run out sooner than later So no he will be a non factor this year and possibly next ... He potential makes a 4/3 defense better sooner ... We cannot take this player at 11 Except we play a hybrid alignment. Paye can line up anywhere and projects to either defense. If he didn't fit, the Giants wouldn't be interested. That's the bottom line on that.
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 14:46:27 GMT -5
From David Syvertsen of Ourlads
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 14:54:43 GMT -5
We also played a 4/3 where his skillsets fit (and it took him 3 years to find his niche) You cannot take a square peg at 11 with not knowing how to use a player for a few years when rookie contracts run out sooner than later So no he will be a non factor this year and possibly next ... He potential makes a 4/3 defense better sooner ... We cannot take this player at 11 Except we play a hybrid alignment. Paye can line up anywhere and projects to either defense. If he didn't fit, the Giants wouldn't be interested. That's the bottom line on that. Wishful thinking
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 14:54:47 GMT -5
From David Syvertsen of Ourlads We dont need a 4-3 DE, we need a 3-4 OLB IMO, I dont know if Paye can hang in the 3-4. What happens when we ask him to drop into coverage
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 14:56:02 GMT -5
From David Syvertsen of Ourlads We dont need a 4-3 DE, we need a 3-4 OLB IMO, I dont know if Paye can hang in the 3-4. What happens when we ask him to drop into coverage A 20 plus yard gain by a back or TE
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 14:58:30 GMT -5
I think they are interested because he can do so much on the defense. As a pure edge player, there are better guys or more prototypical guys in this draft, but Paye can be and has been moved around a lot. I really like him as a player, but people want an outside rush guy around here and he isn't the best in this draft at that, though still good. But he brings more to the table than most of them. Justin Tuck wasn't a pure edge rusher either. The bottom line is Paye would make this defense better. When Tuck was here, he was a 4-3 DE. Tuck would be a 3-4 DE like Williams if he was playing with us these days..... Paye would probably be best utilized there as well
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 20, 2021 14:59:59 GMT -5
We also played a 4/3 where his skillsets fit (and it took him 3 years to find his niche) You cannot take a square peg at 11 with not knowing how to use a player for a few years when rookie contracts run out sooner than later So no he will be a non factor this year and possibly next ... He potential makes a 4/3 defense better sooner ... We cannot take this player at 11 Except we play a hybrid alignment. Paye can line up anywhere and projects to either defense. If he didn't fit, the Giants wouldn't be interested. That's the bottom line on that. So where does he line up in a 3 man front, on the edge or on the DL??
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Post by jmike on Apr 20, 2021 15:08:15 GMT -5
From David Syvertsen of Ourlads We dont need a 4-3 DE, we need a 3-4 OLB IMO, I dont know if Paye can hang in the 3-4. What happens when we ask him to drop into coverage Top edge guys in this draft: Paye, Phillips, Ojulari, Rousseau, Tryon, Oweh, Ossai, Basham, etc....The only one serviceable in coverage is Ossai and I like him but not at 11. Paye has the movement skills to be decent there eventually but that is not what he will be asked to do. Look at the top edge players currently n the NFL, very few are more than serviceable in coverage. Paye would be a very good 4-3 DE, but that is not all he is and if the Giants plan on lining him up only on the outside to rush the passer all day, then they picked the wrong player. If the Giants spend the 11th pick in the draft on a player that only rushes the passer from the outside, then they have wasted the 11th pick. The Giants like to move players around, bring their rushers from many angles. They don't run a 3-4 or a 4-3 but a very hybrid system with multiple looks. A player that can do as many things as Paye is great for this system. If you want a guy that is just an outside pass rusher there are better choices.
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