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Post by Kruunch on Apr 20, 2021 19:45:49 GMT -5
Phillips is a major risk as well. He might be concussion free for three years. But, he’s had them, so much that he retired from sports. It’s a huge gamble to draft a player in the 1st who has already quit the sport he plays in. Now, he will be playing in a league that concussions are rampant and frequent on all players. Especially, players who’s job is to hit the other guy as hard as he can. His talent is undisputed. His desire to play in this league for the long haul is. Well. To be fair he was forced to quit. He had 2 non football related concussions. One as a 10 year old, another in between his sophomore and freshman seasons when he was hit by a car that veered into his bike lane. Philips also had 1 football related concussion as a freshman. At UCLA its a three strikes you're out philosophy so not a lot of nuance. If the NFL employed a 3 concussion policy you wouldn't have enough players to play. I get that concussions are concerning, I do. However, players like Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Kenny Phillips, or David Wilson all had a clean bill of health coming into the league, yet all didn't earn a second contract due to injuries. Injuries are completely unpredictable. Sterlng Shepard had 0 concussion issues coming into the league, now? not so much, he had 2 in a three week period in 2019, but he's been completely fine since. Injuries happen in football. Any time, any where, doing just about anything. Phillips is 3 years removed from his last concussion..I would give him a go but if we're going to be conservative, I get that. Just think its the wrong way to look at it I agree about being conservative. Teams more than not take the conservative route in fear of the repercussions. Especially, when it has to do with injuries. It’s the old adage. “Your best ability, is your availability.” When you draft a player in the 1st round, and the first question about him is concussions. You’re taking a gamble with a loaded gun. I get it, screw being conservative. It hasn’t worked for us before, why would it work now? You have to take chances on talent. And normally, I would agree to that. But, not with concussions. He could be that player who will never sustain a concussion again. He also could be that player since he’s already had three, he’s very susceptible to getting another one. His talent fits a need, no question. If he didn’t have the concussions I would be all for him in the 1st. He has 1st round talent, even his detractors can see that. It’s those damn concussions that are concerning. We’re still in the dark with understanding how to prevent head injuries in a sport where players collide into one another like two bulls. We can’t afford to miss on this draft pick, if we draft him and he gets injured. Yes, I know injures happen in this sport. It’s a tough pill to swallow to the fan base and front office that you took a player who everyone and their mother knew had a history of injures.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 19:50:58 GMT -5
Agreed, much easier with multiple picks and a deeper roster, etc. However, the players listed above had no prior issues in the NCAA, if looking at ones history was the solution these guys should have been okay. Isn't it weird how much talent we've lost due to injuries? yet the Giants never risk drafting players with concerns coming out? that speaks to the unpredictability of most injuries. Im leery of forcing a pick on a position like EDGE and not going for the best talent. Despite understand the concerns to a degree on the other hand. Its not enough for me to take Paye or Phillips, for example. Im not even sure Paye can be a viable pass rusher in the NFL... Fair points. Remember David Baas? No injury history before we signed him, then he got here and couldn’t stay healthy at all. Lucky for us, he saved his best game for the Super Bowl. Same with OV, and Geoff Schwartz. They both never missed a snap and then couldn't stay on the field.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 19:52:29 GMT -5
Well. To be fair he was forced to quit. He had 2 non football related concussions. One as a 10 year old, another in between his sophomore and freshman seasons when he was hit by a car that veered into his bike lane. Philips also had 1 football related concussion as a freshman. At UCLA its a three strikes you're out philosophy so not a lot of nuance. If the NFL employed a 3 concussion policy you wouldn't have enough players to play. I get that concussions are concerning, I do. However, players like Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Kenny Phillips, or David Wilson all had a clean bill of health coming into the league, yet all didn't earn a second contract due to injuries. Injuries are completely unpredictable. Sterlng Shepard had 0 concussion issues coming into the league, now? not so much, he had 2 in a three week period in 2019, but he's been completely fine since. Injuries happen in football. Any time, any where, doing just about anything. Phillips is 3 years removed from his last concussion..I would give him a go but if we're going to be conservative, I get that. Just think its the wrong way to look at it I thought Cruz got paid then got injured that season. I think you're right. but yeah, this was off the top of my head im sure im missing a bunch. To me, injuries are just random. I try not to factor it in as much as other factors.
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Post by jaymas on Apr 20, 2021 19:55:26 GMT -5
Gmen definitely don't need to go edge. Certainly not a forgone conclusion at least. To me their defensive blueprint is building an elite secondary paired with a stable of versatile guys that do different things to affect the passer from a variety of spots. One of the reasons I could see Parsons being the pick if he was there, not an edge, but can get after the QB and brings something different than the other guys they have.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 19:55:55 GMT -5
Well. To be fair he was forced to quit. He had 2 non football related concussions. One as a 10 year old, another in between his sophomore and freshman seasons when he was hit by a car that veered into his bike lane. Philips also had 1 football related concussion as a freshman. At UCLA its a three strikes you're out philosophy so not a lot of nuance. If the NFL employed a 3 concussion policy you wouldn't have enough players to play. I get that concussions are concerning, I do. However, players like Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Kenny Phillips, or David Wilson all had a clean bill of health coming into the league, yet all didn't earn a second contract due to injuries. Injuries are completely unpredictable. Sterlng Shepard had 0 concussion issues coming into the league, now? not so much, he had 2 in a three week period in 2019, but he's been completely fine since. Injuries happen in football. Any time, any where, doing just about anything. Phillips is 3 years removed from his last concussion..I would give him a go but if we're going to be conservative, I get that. Just think its the wrong way to look at it I agree about being conservative. Teams more than not take the conservative route in fear of the repercussions. Especially, when it has to do with injuries. It’s the old adage. “Your best ability, is your availability.” When you draft a player in the 1st round, and the first question about him is concussions. You’re taking a gamble with a loaded gun. I get it, screw being conservative. It hasn’t worked for us before, why would it work now? You have to take chances on talent. And normally, I would agree to that. But, not with concussions. He could be that player who will never sustain a concussion again. He also could be that player since he’s already had three, he’s very susceptible to getting another one. His talent fits a need, no question. If he didn’t have the concussions I would be all for him in the 1st. He has 1st round talent, even his detractors can see that. It’s those damn concussions that are concerning. We’re still in the dark with understanding how to prevent head injuries in a sport where players collide into one another like two bulls. We can’t afford to miss on this draft pick, if we draft him and he gets injured. Yes, I know injures happen in this sport. It’s a tough pill to swallow to the fan base and front office that you took a player who everyone and their mother knew had a history of injures. Concussions are hard to understand, no doubt. However, outside of injury risk we know that roughly 40% of first rounds bust because they're simply not good. Id rather take a risk on a guy that could get hurt but is a stud on the field, then take a guy that was never good enough to be a first round pass rusher to begin with. I suppose its just how you perceive risk. Im not fond of the EDGE group outside of Phillips, rather take the risk on the guy that I know can play. You know?
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 20, 2021 20:23:20 GMT -5
I thought Cruz got paid then got injured that season. I think you're right. but yeah, this was off the top of my head im sure im missing a bunch. To me, injuries are just random. I try not to factor it in as much as other factors. I agree with that. It is a contact sport there will be injuries. Not getting injured is the exception. This is why you need depth and more importantly good coaches to prepare the backups.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 20, 2021 20:29:46 GMT -5
Well. To be fair he was forced to quit. He had 2 non football related concussions. One as a 10 year old, another in between his sophomore and freshman seasons when he was hit by a car that veered into his bike lane. Philips also had 1 football related concussion as a freshman. At UCLA its a three strikes you're out philosophy so not a lot of nuance. If the NFL employed a 3 concussion policy you wouldn't have enough players to play. I get that concussions are concerning, I do. However, players like Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Kenny Phillips, or David Wilson all had a clean bill of health coming into the league, yet all didn't earn a second contract due to injuries. Injuries are completely unpredictable. Sterlng Shepard had 0 concussion issues coming into the league, now? not so much, he had 2 in a three week period in 2019, but he's been completely fine since. Injuries happen in football. Any time, any where, doing just about anything. Phillips is 3 years removed from his last concussion..I would give him a go but if we're going to be conservative, I get that. Just think its the wrong way to look at it I agree about being conservative. Teams more than not take the conservative route in fear of the repercussions. Especially, when it has to do with injuries. It’s the old adage. “Your best ability, is your availability.” When you draft a player in the 1st round, and the first question about him is concussions. You’re taking a gamble with a loaded gun. I get it, screw being conservative. It hasn’t worked for us before, why would it work now? You have to take chances on talent. And normally, I would agree to that. But, not with concussions. He could be that player who will never sustain a concussion again. He also could be that player since he’s already had three, he’s very susceptible to getting another one. His talent fits a need, no question. If he didn’t have the concussions I would be all for him in the 1st. He has 1st round talent, even his detractors can see that. It’s those damn concussions that are concerning. We’re still in the dark with understanding how to prevent head injuries in a sport where players collide into one another like two bulls. We can’t afford to miss on this draft pick, if we draft him and he gets injured. Yes, I know injures happen in this sport. It’s a tough pill to swallow to the fan base and front office that you took a player who everyone and their mother knew had a history of injures. I'm a Cane's fan and watched many of his games Let's just say without the concussions we are questioning if he even makes it to us at 11
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 20, 2021 20:32:04 GMT -5
Its only a reach if the player ends up sucking. I'd say our top needs are rg, edge rusher, and rt. I'd also bet there's about .0001% chance that when we are up to pick, there wouldn't be a player available to us at one of those positions that will ultimately end up being a pro bowl talent. I dont care if its someone that the media says will get drafted in the 6th round, there's great players to be had. The scouts and GMs need to stop sucking at their job and find them. A reach is a reach. LV Raiders think this way and act like they can outsmart everyone. Ferrell, Ruggs, Miller, Joseph, .... have they made a 1st round pick other than Jacobs who has lived up to the draft spot so far? Their picks are always big head scratchers because there are consensus better players on the board. Take the best players available. Especially in the top 10 or on the fringe like 11. No excuses So the guy that used have the most popular big board and draft analysis is now the reach artist as a GM. If he still was an analyst with the same bigboard everyone would be mocking to it. Crazy how reaches are valued.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 20, 2021 22:19:41 GMT -5
Well. To be fair he was forced to quit. He had 2 non football related concussions. One as a 10 year old, another in between his sophomore and freshman seasons when he was hit by a car that veered into his bike lane. Philips also had 1 football related concussion as a freshman. At UCLA its a three strikes you're out philosophy so not a lot of nuance. If the NFL employed a 3 concussion policy you wouldn't have enough players to play. I get that concussions are concerning, I do. However, players like Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Victor Cruz, Kenny Phillips, or David Wilson all had a clean bill of health coming into the league, yet all didn't earn a second contract due to injuries. Injuries are completely unpredictable. Sterlng Shepard had 0 concussion issues coming into the league, now? not so much, he had 2 in a three week period in 2019, but he's been completely fine since. Injuries happen in football. Any time, any where, doing just about anything. Phillips is 3 years removed from his last concussion..I would give him a go but if we're going to be conservative, I get that. Just think its the wrong way to look at it I agree about being conservative. Teams more than not take the conservative route in fear of the repercussions. Especially, when it has to do with injuries. It’s the old adage. “Your best ability, is your availability.” When you draft a player in the 1st round, and the first question about him is concussions. You’re taking a gamble with a loaded gun. I get it, screw being conservative. It hasn’t worked for us before, why would it work now? You have to take chances on talent. And normally, I would agree to that. But, not with concussions. He could be that player who will never sustain a concussion again. He also could be that player since he’s already had three, he’s very susceptible to getting another one. His talent fits a need, no question. If he didn’t have the concussions I would be all for him in the 1st. He has 1st round talent, even his detractors can see that. It’s those damn concussions that are concerning. We’re still in the dark with understanding how to prevent head injuries in a sport where players collide into one another like two bulls. We can’t afford to miss on this draft pick, if we draft him and he gets injured. Yes, I know injures happen in this sport. It’s a tough pill to swallow to the fan base and front office that you took a player who everyone and their mother knew had a history of injures. Had his first concussion when he was 10-years-old. Dealt with an ankle injury and multiple concussions in 2017. Was hit by a car while on his moped and broke his wrist (January, 2018), which required multiple surgeries including the removal of three bones (April, 2018). Suffered another concussion and decided to medically retire from football (2018). Main passion in life is music. Wants to become a rapper/producer when football is over. www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/jaelanphillipsHe already has a contingency plan for a future in music. That will make it easier for him to bail on the NFL. What ever team picks him is taking an extra risk beyond the "normal risk" of NFL injuries. He seems like he can be a hell of of a player tho
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Post by thetruth on Apr 20, 2021 22:44:40 GMT -5
I agree about being conservative. Teams more than not take the conservative route in fear of the repercussions. Especially, when it has to do with injuries. It’s the old adage. “Your best ability, is your availability.” When you draft a player in the 1st round, and the first question about him is concussions. You’re taking a gamble with a loaded gun. I get it, screw being conservative. It hasn’t worked for us before, why would it work now? You have to take chances on talent. And normally, I would agree to that. But, not with concussions. He could be that player who will never sustain a concussion again. He also could be that player since he’s already had three, he’s very susceptible to getting another one. His talent fits a need, no question. If he didn’t have the concussions I would be all for him in the 1st. He has 1st round talent, even his detractors can see that. It’s those damn concussions that are concerning. We’re still in the dark with understanding how to prevent head injuries in a sport where players collide into one another like two bulls. We can’t afford to miss on this draft pick, if we draft him and he gets injured. Yes, I know injures happen in this sport. It’s a tough pill to swallow to the fan base and front office that you took a player who everyone and their mother knew had a history of injures. Had his first concussion when he was 10-years-old. Dealt with an ankle injury and multiple concussions in 2017. Was hit by a car while on his moped and broke his wrist (January, 2018), which required multiple surgeries including the removal of three bones (April, 2018). Suffered another concussion and decided to medically retire from football (2018). Main passion in life is music. Wants to become a rapper/producer when football is over. www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/jaelanphillipsHe already has a contingency plan for a future in music. That will make it easier for him to bail on the NFL. What ever team picks him is taking an extra risk beyond the "normal risk" of NFL injuries. He seems like he can be a hell of of a player tho - He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 21, 2021 0:03:06 GMT -5
Had his first concussion when he was 10-years-old. Dealt with an ankle injury and multiple concussions in 2017. Was hit by a car while on his moped and broke his wrist (January, 2018), which required multiple surgeries including the removal of three bones (April, 2018). Suffered another concussion and decided to medically retire from football (2018). Main passion in life is music. Wants to become a rapper/producer when football is over. www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/jaelanphillipsHe already has a contingency plan for a future in music. That will make it easier for him to bail on the NFL. What ever team picks him is taking an extra risk beyond the "normal risk" of NFL injuries. He seems like he can be a hell of of a player tho - He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. Hopefully a backup plan if Smith/Waddle and Slater are gone and not over any of these 3
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 21, 2021 4:34:34 GMT -5
Had his first concussion when he was 10-years-old. Dealt with an ankle injury and multiple concussions in 2017. Was hit by a car while on his moped and broke his wrist (January, 2018), which required multiple surgeries including the removal of three bones (April, 2018). Suffered another concussion and decided to medically retire from football (2018). Main passion in life is music. Wants to become a rapper/producer when football is over. www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/jaelanphillipsHe already has a contingency plan for a future in music. That will make it easier for him to bail on the NFL. What ever team picks him is taking an extra risk beyond the "normal risk" of NFL injuries. He seems like he can be a hell of of a player tho - He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. Schraeger says on that podcast that he sees the Giants jumping on Surtain or Horn 🤷♂️
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Post by GameTime on Apr 21, 2021 6:49:54 GMT -5
Had his first concussion when he was 10-years-old. Dealt with an ankle injury and multiple concussions in 2017. Was hit by a car while on his moped and broke his wrist (January, 2018), which required multiple surgeries including the removal of three bones (April, 2018). Suffered another concussion and decided to medically retire from football (2018). Main passion in life is music. Wants to become a rapper/producer when football is over. www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/jaelanphillipsHe already has a contingency plan for a future in music. That will make it easier for him to bail on the NFL. What ever team picks him is taking an extra risk beyond the "normal risk" of NFL injuries. He seems like he can be a hell of of a player tho - He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. thats all great..... you dont take a chance on him if you cant afford to gamble. The NYGs have to hit on the first 3 rounds. They have to mitigate risk as much as possible,
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Post by GameTime on Apr 21, 2021 6:52:23 GMT -5
- He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. Schraeger says on that podcast that he sees the Giants jumping on Surtain or Horn 🤷♂️ I have seen that and dont really see it. DG and Abrams spoke yesterday that they have two boards up in the preseason. One with FAs and one with draft. They try to combine the two based on money, need, value etc. As each event in FA occurs it changes the landscape of the two boards. If this is all true they dont draft a CB. Just my guess
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 21, 2021 6:54:01 GMT -5
Had his first concussion when he was 10-years-old. Dealt with an ankle injury and multiple concussions in 2017. Was hit by a car while on his moped and broke his wrist (January, 2018), which required multiple surgeries including the removal of three bones (April, 2018). Suffered another concussion and decided to medically retire from football (2018). Main passion in life is music. Wants to become a rapper/producer when football is over. www.si.com/nfl/draft/scouting-reports/jaelanphillipsHe already has a contingency plan for a future in music. That will make it easier for him to bail on the NFL. What ever team picks him is taking an extra risk beyond the "normal risk" of NFL injuries. He seems like he can be a hell of of a player tho - He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. Thanks! This was some good insight. Didn't know about the 3 strike rule.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 21, 2021 7:58:33 GMT -5
Schraeger says on that podcast that he sees the Giants jumping on Surtain or Horn 🤷♂️ I have seen that and dont really see it. DG and Abrams spoke yesterday that they have two boards up in the preseason. One with FAs and one with draft. They try to combine the two based on money, need, value etc. As each event in FA occurs it changes the landscape of the two boards. If this is all true they dont draft a CB. Just my guess I agree - only chance I see this scenario unfolding is if Slater, Pitts and the 3WR's are gone and we don't have a legit trade-down opportunity.
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Post by jmike on Apr 21, 2021 8:22:45 GMT -5
Its only a reach if the player ends up sucking. I'd say our top needs are rg, edge rusher, and rt. I'd also bet there's about .0001% chance that when we are up to pick, there wouldn't be a player available to us at one of those positions that will ultimately end up being a pro bowl talent. I dont care if its someone that the media says will get drafted in the 6th round, there's great players to be had. The scouts and GMs need to stop sucking at their job and find them. The problem with this think is you do not pass on Waddle/Smith or Slater if any are available for an edge rusher.. Sure you do if you think the edge rusher is better.
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Post by jmike on Apr 21, 2021 8:29:33 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of Paye, but I would pick him over the guy who is a concussion away from eating apple sauce with chopsticks. And looks like a muppet and mop mixed into one. Edge rusher is supposedly “weak” in this draft. Especially, when you’re drafting at 11. I hope we don’t draft one for the sheer reason it’s a position of need. I want a sound pick who is going to help the team immediately. If Paye is the player, I get it. If Phillips is, I’m now questioning if the Giants are eating paint chips when no one is looking. The thing is that Paye has a ceiling of "pretty good" after figuring out what and how to do with him.for 1 to 3 years This is the classic case of a guy that is a non factor year one that hits his career on his 2nd team ... I do not want to use our 11th overall pick to develop a player we might get a comp pick for in 5 or 6 years No, Paye's ceiling is fairly unlimited. Guys that size that can also move in space like him are extremely rare. If you draft him it is because you trust your coaching staff to get that out of him. He's a player that can make an impact in year one and has quite a bit of growth left in his game.
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Post by jmike on Apr 21, 2021 8:30:30 GMT -5
The problem with this think is you do not pass on Waddle/Smith or Slater if any are available for an edge rusher.. Yeah I think I would take this trio before any EDGE I think the Giants would pass on Waddle/Slater for an Edge, though I don't think the Giants will take Slater at all. Waddle I think they would take if he's there and his ankle checks out.
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Post by jmike on Apr 21, 2021 8:33:00 GMT -5
Tony Pauline: Paye has the movement skills to work in space if needed. As I mentioned before, he played on special teams, so Paye has the fluidity to drop back in coverage if asked. He can win outside with his burst and flexibility to soften those harsh pass rush angles. Tony Pauline speaks Take Horn or Surtain over Paye on defense, and Paye is his Edge1 - cornerback still a big need for the NY Giants and these guys are SHUTDOWN Take Paye, only if you trade back - but don't trade back, because 11 elite players this year, and QB's will push a selection of those elite players down to the Giants Not big on Parsons at all - on field red flags - hot and cold player BIG in Waddle for a fit but not a polished receiver...and a question mark compared to Smith due to injury. Has Slater as a guard - not as high on Slater as others - thinks Peart will be a good RT - loves Wyatt Davis, Trey Smith, Banks not mobile enough for our scheme - thinks we should await to take OL until day 2 I like Trey Smith a lot. Good player. I'm down on Davis though after being pretty high on him. Serious balance issues there, very hot and cold. Can look like the best guard on the planet some plays, but spends way too much time on the ground for my liking.
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Post by jmike on Apr 21, 2021 8:36:00 GMT -5
I agree with the general thought process that a high end guard or tackle would provide more impact to our particular team due to current personnel. The thought process I am trying to reject is that a player is a reach. Any player at all. The only way this would be true is if we had every team's draft board (or solid intel) OR the player ends up sucking. The only reason people deem players as reaches is because of the general feel of where that player "should" go. It is funny that we judge “reaches” based on mock drafts, when the very best mock drafters bat .200 LOL, exactly.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 21, 2021 8:50:47 GMT -5
Said it before but Parsons and Surtain are the only defensive players I would support drafting at 11. If they are going to reach, reach on an OL. I wouldn’t touch Paye. He’s stiff as a board. He's actually not at all ... very explosive athlete
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 21, 2021 8:52:40 GMT -5
I’m not a fan of Paye, but I would pick him over the guy who is a concussion away from eating apple sauce with chopsticks. And looks like a muppet and mop mixed into one. Edge rusher is supposedly “weak” in this draft. Especially, when you’re drafting at 11. I hope we don’t draft one for the sheer reason it’s a position of need. I want a sound pick who is going to help the team immediately. If Paye is the player, I get it. If Phillips is, I’m now questioning if the Giants are eating paint chips when no one is looking. The thing is that Paye has a ceiling of "pretty good" after figuring out what and how to do with him.for 1 to 3 years This is the classic case of a guy that is a non factor year one that hits his career on his 2nd team ... I do not want to use our 11th overall pick to develop a player we might get a comp pick for in 5 or 6 years I don't agree that Paye has a ceiling of "pretty good" ... I think that's probably his floor. I don't really know what his ceiling is, which is why I am struggling with him as a potential pick at 11. If I had to guess, I would say that Paye is probably Gettleman's favorite Edge, just due to his size and athleticism. Not sure if Judge/Graham would feel the same
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 21, 2021 9:01:10 GMT -5
The thing is that Paye has a ceiling of "pretty good" after figuring out what and how to do with him.for 1 to 3 years This is the classic case of a guy that is a non factor year one that hits his career on his 2nd team ... I do not want to use our 11th overall pick to develop a player we might get a comp pick for in 5 or 6 years I don't agree that Paye has a ceiling of "pretty good" ... I think that's probably his floor. I don't really know what his ceiling is, which is why I am struggling with him as a potential pick at 11. Kinda same boat but my issue is he is square peggish for us and we are a very versatile type defense which is damning,at least for instant impact Your top 15 picks (unless corner these days because other than Lattimore or having the luxury of working one in due to depth....cough cough us ...you have to account as a team severe growing pains year one ...especially after watching Okudah look worse than Baker last year )have to have a major impact year 1 Paye "can " have an impact.....drafted by a 4/3 team he would have a much better chance of developing quickly. A 3/4 type front it will be at least 1 if not more years of experiments Hell the Bears ran a front friendly for Fkoyd and they couldn't figure out how to get the most out of him and wasted draft capital to move up for him only to give up on him 2 years later This is not how I want to spend my 11h overall pick Or even a 1st round pick in a trade back where some of the next wave of O linemen/WRs,Collins or even actual edge guys would be... As much as I'm against edge at 11 ...the truth's scenario Ojulari or even Phillips makes much more sense if tbe have to and decide to go this way
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Post by thetruth on Apr 21, 2021 9:25:15 GMT -5
- He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. Thanks! This was some good insight. Didn't know about the 3 strike rule. Yeah not a fan, considering only 1 of the 3 occurred on the football field
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Post by thetruth on Apr 21, 2021 9:26:21 GMT -5
- He never decided to retire from football. UCLA has a 3-strike policy, he was forced. - His parents both have musical backgrounds, he picked up on his would be natural talent after he was forced to retire - Rather than focusing on a career in music, he's mentioned many times he couldn't stop thinking about football. Watch this for more context. A lot of the stuff about this kid on the internet is w/o context. Very interesting story. I think the Giants are more interested than we think. Schraeger says on that podcast that he sees the Giants jumping on Surtain or Horn 🤷♂️ haha yep, i believe if you listen at just after 40 mins he talks about Giant connections to Phillips. Has him going #14 to the Vikings I think
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Post by thetruth on Apr 21, 2021 9:27:29 GMT -5
Yeah I think I would take this trio before any EDGE I think the Giants would pass on Waddle/Slater for an Edge, though I don't think the Giants will take Slater at all. Waddle I think they would take if he's there and his ankle checks out. One thing I believe is that they will not take a OL in at #11 not named Sewell. Though, I also think Sewell being there at #11 is more likely than people think
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Post by jmike on Apr 21, 2021 9:33:17 GMT -5
I don't think the Giants will take Slater at all. Waddle I think they would take if he's there and his ankle checks out. One thing I believe is that they will not take a OL in at #11 not named Sewell. Though, I also think Sewell being there at #11 is more likely than people think Disagree, I could see them taking an OL there. I just don't think it will be Slater. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but he just doesn't seem to fit. I could be nuts, and likely never know if I'm right. If they take him I will clearly be wrong. I just don't think Slater will be high enough on their board to be BPA at their pick before he is picked by another team. I think there is a lot of group think going on with Slater in the media. Huge jump in perceived talent year over year, which happens, but I've never seen it happen with a player that didn't play that season before. I find it odd to say the least.
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Post by thetruth on Apr 21, 2021 9:52:44 GMT -5
One thing I believe is that they will not take a OL in at #11 not named Sewell. Though, I also think Sewell being there at #11 is more likely than people think Disagree, I could see them taking an OL there. I just don't think it will be Slater. I can't put my finger on exactly why, but he just doesn't seem to fit. I could be nuts, and likely never know if I'm right. If they take him I will clearly be wrong. I just don't think Slater will be high enough on their board to be BPA at their pick before he is picked by another team. I think there is a lot of group think going on with Slater in the media. Huge jump in perceived talent year over year, which happens, but I've never seen it happen with a player that didn't play that season before. I find it odd to say the least. Well i hope you're right. If im thinking about whats the one thing that will hold this team back from winning games next year its the OL. I just think the FO thinks higher of Peart than the fans do. DG spent a top-100 pick on him just last year so I doubt they take his replacement in the first. They could go OG but I just dont think they will at #11. Though, I would prefer they did, our biggest whole is OL. We can get by next year without an EDGE
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Apr 21, 2021 10:02:20 GMT -5
Said it before but Parsons and Surtain are the only defensive players I would support drafting at 11. If they are going to reach, reach on an OL. I wouldn’t touch Paye. He’s stiff as a board. He's actually not at all ... very explosive athlete What I’m saying is he has sub-par “bend” I don’t see how he works in this defence from the edge.For us I would see him as rotational piece even swapping in with Williams and Lawrence. He has the size for that and could do a lot of damage from inside. His short area quickness and explosion would make him a good penetrator on the interior. If he ends up rushing the long way from the edge I see him getting stonewalled and not getting there in time. The value with this guy is you put him where he has the shortest distance to go to reach the QB. Let him explode in a straight line. Definitely has utility but I doubt he would be playing consistent Edge. Eagles used Brandon Graham flexibly this way for years. But Graham has pass rush instincts that Paye seems to be lacking. Explosive athlete with good size but I don’t think he’s an every-down Edge in the Giants D. Maybe that’s ok - I don’t know.
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