robl
Special Teams
Posts: 1,375
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Post by robl on May 1, 2021 18:47:51 GMT -5
Happy now?
Also Brett Heggie, OL, Florida
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Post by Nite on May 1, 2021 19:02:15 GMT -5
Happy now? Also Brett Heggie, OL, Florida Holy canoli! G-men signed some OL..OMG can't take it....
Bet was the plan all along.. BTW where the F are they coming up with the money? This salary cap thingy sounds more complicated that quantum thermal dynamics
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robl
Special Teams
Posts: 1,375
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Post by robl on May 1, 2021 19:15:58 GMT -5
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 1, 2021 19:57:04 GMT -5
If any of these guys are actual participants to start on our OL at Guard or Tackle it would be like the Catholic Church proclaiming a miracle just happened saving mankind.
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Post by TEM on May 1, 2021 20:03:56 GMT -5
Happy now? Also Brett Heggie, OL, Florida This O-line not snow board designing . |
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Post by TEM on May 1, 2021 20:08:38 GMT -5
If any of these guys are actual participants to start on our OL at Guard or Tackle it would be like the Catholic Church proclaiming a miracle just happened saving mankind. If some are thinking UDFAs along with these guys is the definition competent depth . After Solder Zach Fulton Kenny Wiggins Chad Slade Jackson Barton Kyle Murphy I want some of what they are drinking. |
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Post by DonnieYen on May 1, 2021 23:06:31 GMT -5
Our Offensive Line isnt bad there young going into year two a lot of them they should be better this year. My prediction Hernandez has a bounce back year!
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Post by bluebuddha on May 2, 2021 8:49:08 GMT -5
I think the Giants feel the biggest offseason improvement for the Oline was going and getting Sale. He will make or break this season. I am hoping Judge's gets it right this time with the Oline coach but coaching is the only thing holding this oline back now. Let's hope this guy can teach.
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Post by Blue Hulk on May 2, 2021 16:48:58 GMT -5
If any of these guys are actual participants to start on our OL at Guard or Tackle it would be like the Catholic Church proclaiming a miracle just happened saving mankind. NY Giants starting center Nick Gates was an undrafted Free Agent.  |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 2, 2021 17:01:55 GMT -5
If any of these guys are actual participants to start on our OL at Guard or Tackle it would be like the Catholic Church proclaiming a miracle just happened saving mankind. NY Giants starting center Nick Gates was an undrafted Free Agent. Thats true. They must have drafted him during Christmas. Tis the season of miracles. |
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Post by IrishMike on May 5, 2021 16:54:50 GMT -5
Fun fact we have never won the Super Bowl without undrafted OL starting for us.
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 8:45:33 GMT -5
Fun fact we have never won the Super Bowl without undrafted OL starting for us Technically Bart Oates was drafted, He went in the 2nd round of 83 USFL draft. (pick 17) The draft was held on Jan 4th. He signed before the NFL draft. (April 26th) |
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 8:55:37 GMT -5
Fun fact we have never won the Super Bowl without undrafted OL starting for us Technically Bart Oates was draft. He went in the 2nd round of 83 USFL draft. (pick 17) The draft was held on Jan 4th. He signed before the NFL draft. (April 26th) Disagree. He went undrafted in the 1983 NFL draft which is why he ended up playing in the USFL. The fact he got picked in some B league draft doesn't erase the fact he went undrafted in the NFL draft. He didn't play in the NFL until 1985 when we signed him. If someone gets drafted into the XFL after not being drafted in the NFL I count that as undrafted and so does the NFL. |
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 9:27:59 GMT -5
Technically Bart Oates was draft. He went in the 2nd round of 83 USFL draft. (pick 17) The draft was held on Jan 4th. He signed before the NFL draft. (April 26th) Disagree. He went undrafted in the 1983 NFL draft which is why he ended up playing in the USFL. The fact he got picked in some B league draft doesn't erase the fact he went undrafted in the NFL draft. He didn't play in the NFL until 1985 when we signed him. If someone gets drafted into the XFL after not being drafted in the NFL I count that as undrafted and so does the NFL. That is not true Herschel Walker was not drafted in the 83 nfl draft. Trumaine Johnson either The USFL was not a b league. Their pay rates for players were competitive with the NFL in some cases better. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, Reggie White, Maurice Carthon, Doug Williams, Doug Flutie, Garry Zimmerman, Sam Mills, Sean Landeta, Ricky Sanders, and Kent Hull All played for the "B league" And chose the "B league" over the NFL out of the NCAA. www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1983/06/19/usfl-vs-nfl-the-wages-of-this-war-get-higher-all-the-time/5782e512-5bc9-4b73-993a-7dd3f4fc88b7/ |
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 14:09:14 GMT -5
Disagree. He went undrafted in the 1983 NFL draft which is why he ended up playing in the USFL. The fact he got picked in some B league draft doesn't erase the fact he went undrafted in the NFL draft. He didn't play in the NFL until 1985 when we signed him. If someone gets drafted into the XFL after not being drafted in the NFL I count that as undrafted and so does the NFL. That is not true Herschel Walker was not drafted in the 83 nfl draft. Trumaine Johnson either The USFL was not a b league. Their pay rates for players were competitive with the NFL in some cases better. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, Reggie White, Maurice Carthon, Doug Williams, Doug Flutie, Garry Zimmerman, Sam Mills, Sean Landeta, Ricky Sanders, and Kent Hull All played for the "B league" And chose the "B league" over the NFL out of the NCAA. www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1983/06/19/usfl-vs-nfl-the-wages-of-this-war-get-higher-all-the-time/5782e512-5bc9-4b73-993a-7dd3f4fc88b7/We are not talking about choosing the USFL vs NFL. We are talking about the NFL Draft. Walker was drafted in the 5th round. Jim Kelly was the 14th pick in the draft. Doug Williams was pick 17 in the NFL draft. Young didn't enter the NFL draft because he was taken in the supplemental draft the year before being eligible for the NFL draft, he would have been #1 if he entered the NFL draft in 1984. Reggie White was also taken in the supplemental draft. Carthon was undrafted.
Bart Oates was undrafted in the NFL draft. He is considered an undrafted player in the NFL. Not only that but he was undrafted in the supplemental draft after the USFL folded as well. That is TWICE that the NFL didn't feel like drafting Oates.
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 14:27:48 GMT -5
That is not true Herschel Walker was not drafted in the 83 nfl draft. Trumaine Johnson either The USFL was not a b league. Their pay rates for players were competitive with the NFL in some cases better. Jim Kelly, Steve Young, Reggie White, Maurice Carthon, Doug Williams, Doug Flutie, Garry Zimmerman, Sam Mills, Sean Landeta, Ricky Sanders, and Kent Hull All played for the "B league" And chose the "B league" over the NFL out of the NCAA. www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1983/06/19/usfl-vs-nfl-the-wages-of-this-war-get-higher-all-the-time/5782e512-5bc9-4b73-993a-7dd3f4fc88b7/We are not talking about choosing the USFL vs NFL. We are talking about the NFL Draft. Jim Kelly was the 14th pick in the draft. Doug Williams was pick 17 in the NFL draft. Young didn't enter the NFL draft because he was taken in the supplemental draft the year before being eligible for the NFL draft, he would have been #1 if he entered the NFL draft in 1984. Reggie White was also taken in the supplemental draft. Carthon was undrafted.
Bart Oates was undrafted in the NFL draft. He is considered an undrafted player in the NFL. Not only that but he was undrafted in the supplemental draft as well. That is TWICE that the NFL didn't feel like draft Oates.
I saying him being drafted into the USFL back then was not as you say the "B league" (a completely wrong assumption) Is no different than being drafted in the NFL. Are you really saying if the USFL did not exist in 83. Oates who was believed to be one of the best center in the 83 draft would have went undrafted. The original post .he was technically drafted. I stick by that. By what you are saying your "drafted by the NFL" every player that was drafted in the old AFL before the merger should be considered undrafted. The USFL was on the same level as the NFL at the time just as the AFL was. The only reason the USFL failed is because the NFl bullied CBS,ABC and NBC into not broadcasting the USFL games in the fall to stop the threat of competition. during the season. By the time the courts ruled in favor of the USFL against the NFL monopoly . The league was bankrupt. You are making it sound like Oates was unworthy of being drafted to an NFL team. He was ranked the #2 center in the 83 class. |
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 15:22:27 GMT -5
You are making it sound like Oates was unworthy of being drafted to an NFL team. He was ranked the #2 center in the 83 class. I'm not debating USFL vs NFL.
I'm not saying Oates was unworthy, I'm stating a fact. He was undrafted.
Bart Oates was not drafted in the 1983 NFL draft. In 1985 when they had a draft just for USFL and CFL players, he again was undrafted. Bart Oates is an undrafted NFL player. He entered the NFL via free agency after not being taken in the NFL draft or the supplemental draft. That's not even debatable. It's not my opinion, it is a fact.
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 15:49:22 GMT -5
You are making it sound like Oates was unworthy of being drafted to an NFL team. He was ranked the #2 center in the 83 class. I'm not debating USFL vs NFL.
I'm not saying Oates was unworthy, I'm stating a fact. He was undrafted.
Bart Oates was not drafted in the 1983 NFL draft. In 1985 when they had a draft just for USFL and CFL players, he again was undrafted. Bart Oates is an undrafted NFL player. He entered the NFL via free agency after not being taken in the NFL draft or the supplemental draft. That's not even debatable. It's not my opinion, it is a fact.
I do not care what new outlets say . Just as AFL players were drafted so were USFL players. All the players on that 1990 O-line were drafted . Mike this is not directed at you and I know you do not think this way. It is a poor attitude. / idea the way conception is with pro football. He went undrafted are same individuals that dismiss Warren Moon's CFL yardage. If pro football included all pro football. Moon would be the pro football passing leader. IMO it is a disgrace to him not recognize his body of work as a whole just as it is to say Bart Oates went undrafted. |
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 19:12:02 GMT -5
I do not care what new outlets say . Just as AFL players were drafted so were USFL players. What spot did Jim Kelly get drafted in? Was it #14 or #163?
You don't have to care what anyone says, just answer this. What pick was Bart Oates in the NFL draft?
Bart Oates entered the NFL as an undrafted free agent, not via draft. That is a fact whether you like it or not. He was not drafted in the 1983 NFL draft (like Jim Kelly) and was not drafted in the 1985 supplemental draft (like Steve Young, Reggie White and Gary Zimmerman). If you pulled up a list of all the NFL draft picks ever made Bart Oates would not be listed.
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 19:17:48 GMT -5
I do not care what new outlets say . Just as AFL players were drafted so were USFL players. What spot did Jim Kelly get drafted in? Was it #14 or #163?
You don't have to care what anyone says, just answer this. What pick was Bart Oates in the NFL draft?
Bart Oates entered the NFL as an undrafted free agent, not via draft. That is a fact whether you like it or not. He was not drafted in the 1983 NFL draft (like Jim Kelly) and was not drafted in the 1985 supplemental draft (like Steve Young, Reggie White and Gary Zimmerman). If you pulled up a list of all the NFL draft picks ever made Bart Oates would not be listed.
I am not talking about NFL draft. I am saying he is not being acknowledged for being drafted., There lies the problem. Was he drafted ? By the standard you are suggesting all AFL player were also not drafted. Hall of famer Jim Otto. I played with his nephew. In Pop Warner . Was not drafted by an NFL team . Only an AFL team . Was he an UDFA also |
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 19:36:25 GMT -5
I am not talking about NFL draft. I am saying he is not being acknowledged for being drafted., There lies the problem. Was he drafted ? By the standard you are suggesting all AFL player were also not drafted. I not talking about my opinion. I'm talking about whether the NFL considers Bart Oates as drafted or not and they do not. He was never drafted by an NFL team. He could have been. They could have drafted him in 1983...they didn't. They could have drafted him in the supplemental draft after the USFL folded, they didn't once again.
Yes the NFL considers all AFL players as being drafted because A) for several years they held a "common draft" with both leagues and B) every team in the AFL merged with the NFL. The NFL also recognizes stats gained in the AFL and awards earned in the AFL. They do not recognize them from other leagues, like you pointed out. The NFL does not consider players drafted by the Canadian Football League as drafted. When we signed Brett Jones he was considered undrafted. The same applies to the USFL and the XFL and arena football and all other leagues.
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 19:38:42 GMT -5
Let me re-phrase my comment to appease TEM so we can all move on. The Giants have never won a Super Bowl without an OL starting that was not picked by an NFL team in the draft.  |
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 19:55:46 GMT -5
I am not talking about NFL draft. I am saying he is not being acknowledged for being drafted., There lies the problem. Was he drafted ? By the standard you are suggesting all AFL player were also not drafted. I not talking about my opinion. I'm talking about whether the NFL considers Bart Oates as drafted or not and they do not. He was never drafted by an NFL team. He could have been. They could have drafted him in 1983...they didn't. They could have drafted him in the supplemental draft after the USFL folded, they didn't once again.
Yes the NFL considers all AFL players as being drafted because A) for several years they held a "common draft" with both leagues and B) every team in the AFL merged with the NFL. The NFL also recognizes stats gained in the AFL and awards earned in the AFL. They do not recognize them from other leagues, like you pointed out. The NFL does not consider players drafted by the Canadian Football League as drafted. When we signed Brett Jones he was considered undrafted. The same applies to the USFL and the XFL and arena football and all other leagues.
Why doesn't the NFL or pro football hall of fame not acknowledge it? I find it a ridiculous policy . It is not called the NFL hall of fame .It is the pro football hall of fame. The policy is contradictory to what the hall claims to be. |
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Post by IrishMike on May 8, 2021 20:13:07 GMT -5
Why doesn't the NFL or pro football hall of fame not acknowledge it? I find it a ridiculous policy . It is not called the NFL hall of fame .It is the pro football hall of fame. The policy is contradictory to what the hall claims to be. The NFL does not recognize them because they are considered lower tier leagues. They count AFL stats because they merged. MLB does not count stats from Japan leagues. The NBA does not count other leagues stats. That's the way it is and makes sense. They don't want to treat other leagues as equals.
The Hall of Fame absolutely recognizes stats from other leagues though. They have Moon's passing yards at 49,000.
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Post by TEM on May 8, 2021 20:17:12 GMT -5
Why doesn't the NFL or pro football hall of fame not acknowledge it? I find it a ridiculous policy . It is not called the NFL hall of fame .It is the pro football hall of fame. The policy is contradictory to what the hall claims to be. The NFL does not recognize them because they are considered lower tier leagues. They count AFL stats because they merged. MLB does not count stats from Japan leagues. The NBA does not count other leagues stats. That's the way it is and makes sense. They don't want to treat other leagues as equals.
The Hall of Fame absolutely recognizes stats from other leagues though. They have Moon's passing yards at 49,000.
Those are his NFL yards .With his CFL yards he should be over 70 thousand. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htm |
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Post by DandyDon on May 8, 2021 20:28:10 GMT -5
Let me re-phrase my comment to appease TEM so we can all move on. The Giants have never won a Super Bowl without an OL starting that was not picked by an NFL team in the draft. You should be a diplomat. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 20:37:19 GMT -5
Let me re-phrase my comment to appease TEM so we can all move on.The Giants have never won a Super Bowl without an OL starting that was not picked by an NFL team in the draft.  |
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Post by IrishMike on May 9, 2021 11:01:04 GMT -5
The NFL does not recognize them because they are considered lower tier leagues. They count AFL stats because they merged. MLB does not count stats from Japan leagues. The NBA does not count other leagues stats. That's the way it is and makes sense. They don't want to treat other leagues as equals.
The Hall of Fame absolutely recognizes stats from other leagues though. They have Moon's passing yards at 49,000.
Those are his NFL yards .With his CFL yards he should be over 70 thousand. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htmMy bad. Turns out they don't recognize CFL. Maybe because they are Canadian? I got no clue. Write them a letter and complain. Maybe it's just the AFL they recognize. |
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Post by TEM on May 9, 2021 11:06:11 GMT -5
My bad. Turns out they don't recognize CFL. Maybe because they are Canadian? I got no clue. Write them a letter and complain. Maybe it's just the AFL they recognize. Try won't change. Imo: The hof is a puppet to the voters. The voters are puppets to the NFL. |
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