Chase Young snaps vs Giants

[Rangers13]

Sept 23, 2021 20:12:21 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:10:37 GMT -5 Rangers13 said:

When?

lol....who?

When?  Five years before the Ravens Super Bowl?  Five years before the 86 team?  When?  The Giants had Tiki Barber before the Jacobs/Bradshaw tandem

[Kruunch]

Sept 23, 2021 19:41:12 GMT -5 Roswell said:

Sept 23, 2021 19:12:35 GMT -5 vinnie said:

So why do the DG supporters still bring up Jerry Reese and how his picks, or lack thereof, allegedly made Dave’s job that much harder and constantly use that as an excuse whereas others can’t talk about Dave’s own picks that caused this team to be where it is because it was 4 years ago. Typical hypocrisy at its finest.

I don’t have an answer for you but this is all day every day.  It’s like watching a security camera of an empty hallway.

We all get it.  A lot of people hated the pick 4 years ago and still hate it today.

But at some point the posts about the pick get ridiculous.  Besides, there’s so much else to complain about lol.  

A lot of people were all over Thomas for playing a poor half in a preseason game when he was sick.  He was a bust 3 weeks ago.  Now how’s he doing?  It’s just everything here is so overreacted to.  Way too much negativity.

No one called him a bust. Sick or not, poor play shouldn’t be absolved, it should be resolved. 
I’m also getting tired of seeing this nonsense about putting the leprosy label on critical fans. Last time I checked, this franchise has been medical waste for almost a decade. So, it doesn’t take a wizkid to see how most fans aren’t buying false hope. I’m called grumpy, critical, negative, you name it. All complete bullshit.. I call this team for what they are, I don’t hide behind the logo and put those goofy Giants glasses on. Team performs badly, they deserve the criticism. They play well, more props to them. Some act like we should blindly support a losing culture, **** that. I root no different then I have for decades, but I also have gotten much colder due in part to the losing. 

I also get it from the flip side. Negativity after a awhile can bring you down. Misery loves company.. And there is only so many times you can rip a team over and over. At some point, you have to start thinking are you even rooting for the team at this point? Look, winning cures all. When this franchise starts to play like true Giants. The doubters will come around.. 

[moecoastie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:04:22 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 19:48:18 GMT -5 McCherry said:

And had we drafted Nelson second, we likely would've lost more games. And as you said, one great Guard on a line of four other bad players does nothing for your team. There's no question that we won games directly because of Barkley. There are reasons why nobody drafts guards second overall.

And? We weren’t going to the playoffs, Ray Charles could see that. You must of drinking some of that DG Kool Aid when he said “you can rebuild and win at the same time”. Yeah, win 6 games? Great job Dave.

When your team is in a clear rebuild mode, you draft for the future not to win now. Which would we be better off with now (Thomas, Nelson, Gates, Trey Smith, Slater ) or Barkley, Toney, Rodarius Williams and an extra first we’ll have to use on a tackle anyways? Hmmmmm…tough decision. That would be a top 5 O line, if not the best in the league, that any RB would look like an All Pro running behind. Jones would have time to stop and read the paper if he wanted to but instead we’re still a hot mess that will be lucky to crack the top 20-25 O lines this year.

yeah, draft a tackle or something....not a guard.  Stop using OLine as an umbrella statement.  We're talking one Left Guard.  One player out of 5 on an OLine which badly needed a tackle.  a left freaking guard, bro.  I feel like Im in the twilight zone or something.  Again, I dont give a rip he's all everything...he's a left freaking guard.   Im not minimizing, he's a left guard. 

trade out or whatever but dont draft a guard #2.  But we aint going down that trade out rabbit hole because we dont know what we dont know.

[moecoastie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:14:53 GMT -5 Rangers13 said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:12:21 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

lol....who?

When?  Five years before the Ravens Super Bowl?  Five years before the 86 team?  When?  The Giants had Tiki Barber before the Jacobs/Bradshaw tandem

SB = Saquon Barkley.  Not Super Bowl.  Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

[vinnie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:06:43 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Sept 23, 2021 19:16:40 GMT -5 vinnie said:

That’s not the point, the positional value of a RB is very low. I would rather have a perennial pro bowler guard for years to come than a pro bowl RB. A good line effects the entire team (QB, WR’s, RB, TE, etc) whereas a RB doesn’t have near the impact. It’s also been proven time and time again that a good O line can make even average RB’s look great and RB’s can be found deep in the draft.

Production is production wether it comes from an RB / WR/ or TE positional value counts for guys who do less Guys like McCaffery Kamara Barkely Cooke will slice a team up catching and running it. The point is they could have gotten a bust or a decent player at least they have a dynamic player that hopefully will be that again sooner then later.

An “average” RB would be more beneficial to a team with a great O line than a “dynamic” RB (who can’t even block) with a bad O line. 

[Rangers13]

Sept 23, 2021 20:22:04 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:14:53 GMT -5 Rangers13 said:

When?  Five years before the Ravens Super Bowl?  Five years before the 86 team?  When?  The Giants had Tiki Barber before the Jacobs/Bradshaw tandem

SB = Saquon Barkley.  Not Super Bowl.  Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

oh, ok.  Regardless, i would have opted for Chubb in Round 2.  I would have gone QB or made the Jets trade the Colts did

[moecoastie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:24:45 GMT -5 Rangers13 said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:22:04 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

SB = Saquon Barkley.  Not Super Bowl.  Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

oh, ok.  Regardless, i would have opted for Chubb in Round 2.  I would have gone QB or made the Jets trade the Colts did

one year removed from a bad ACL and only split time with Michel since?  The fact that Cleveland drafted him that high is luck.  I think the browns had a bajillion picks in the first 2 rounds and he was their last pick after a bunch of other RBs got picked.   Dont quote me on that but I believe thats how it went. 

Speaking of trades, besides swapping 1st rounders...did any trade that year net an additional 1st rounder?  I know about the Jets 2nd rounders but I dont remember any trades with an additional 1st.  If that is the case...that was a depressed year for trade value. 

EDIT:
Before anyone mentions DEN.  NO, I do not believe DEN was offering much if anything at all.  Since 2018 and the alleged "haul" we could have gotten from DEN.  DEN has invested a 2nd rounder for a QB.  THey were about to trade us a "haul" but only decided to spend pennies in the last 3 years?  Nah....DEN is one of those teams everyone thinks should be interested in QB because the GM never met a QB he didnt like.

[vinnie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:20:17 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:04:22 GMT -5 vinnie said:

And? We weren’t going to the playoffs, Ray Charles could see that. You must of drinking some of that DG Kool Aid when he said “you can rebuild and win at the same time”. Yeah, win 6 games? Great job Dave.

When your team is in a clear rebuild mode, you draft for the future not to win now. Which would we be better off with now (Thomas, Nelson, Gates, Trey Smith, Slater ) or Barkley, Toney, Rodarius Williams and an extra first we’ll have to use on a tackle anyways? Hmmmmm…tough decision. That would be a top 5 O line, if not the best in the league, that any RB would look like an All Pro running behind. Jones would have time to stop and read the paper if he wanted to but instead we’re still a hot mess that will be lucky to crack the top 20-25 O lines this year.

yeah, draft a tackle or something....not a guard.  Stop using OLine as an umbrella statement.  We're talking one Left Guard.  One player out of 5 on an OLine which badly needed a tackle.  a left freaking guard, bro.  I feel like Im in the twilight zone or something.  Again, I dont give a rip he's all everything...he's a left freaking guard.   Im not minimizing, he's a left guard. 

trade out or whatever but dont draft a guard #2.  But we aint going down that trade out rabbit hole because we dont know what we dont know.

Talking about being in the twilight zone, I can’t believe I’m arguing with football fans who think drafting a RB with the second overall pick on a rebuilding team was a good choice. Yes, he’s a left guard, I’m glad you understand what position he plays, left guard.

Did you watch Lemieux try to pass block last year? Do you realize he was close to leading the league in pressures, if he didn’t actually lead the league in pressures? Do you understand how much that effects the rest of the offense because I don’t think you do. Great, he’s a guard and not a tackle so at least DJ can look the guy in the eyes who is about to maul him instead of getting hit from behind. Nelson isn’t just some average LG, he’s a beast and will be in the HOF. BTW, he allowed ZERO sacks last year and mauled defenders over in the run game. Nah, we couldn’t use anyone like that, we’ll just get a guard in the second who won’t be that much of a drop off….oh wait, yeah that worked out well and 4 years later we still have a guard problem.

[BigBlueDog42]

Sept 23, 2021 20:23:44 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:06:43 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Production is production wether it comes from an RB / WR/ or TE positional value counts for guys who do less Guys like McCaffery Kamara Barkely Cooke will slice a team up catching and running it. The point is they could have gotten a bust or a decent player at least they have a dynamic player that hopefully will be that again sooner then later.

An “average” RB would be more beneficial to a team with a great O line than a “dynamic” RB (who can’t even block) with a bad O line. 

OL is most important position group on the team 1B is the DL point is Drafting Barkely then Hernandez was sound draft strategy Will H was loved by scouts and evaluators he is not a bad Guard he just isn't a top 10 guard.

[Rangers13]

Sept 23, 2021 20:31:26 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:24:45 GMT -5 Rangers13 said:

oh, ok.  Regardless, i would have opted for Chubb in Round 2.  I would have gone QB or made the Jets trade the Colts did

one year removed from a bad ACL and only split time with Michel since?  The fact that Cleveland drafted him that high is luck.  I think the browns had a bajillion picks in the first 2 rounds and he was their last pick after a bunch of other RBs got picked.   Dont quote me on that but I believe thats how it went. 

Speaking of trades, besides swapping 1st rounders...did any trade that year net an additional 1st rounder?  I know about the Jets 2nd rounders but I dont remember any trades with an additional 1st.  If that is the case...that was a depressed year for trade value. 

EDIT:
Before anyone mentions DEN.  NO, I do not believe DEN was offering much if anything at all.  Since 2018 and the alleged "haul" we could have gotten from DEN.  DEN has invested a 2nd rounder for a QB.  THey were about to trade us a "haul" but only decided to spend pennies in the last 3 years?  Nah....DEN is one of those teams everyone thinks should be interested in QB because the GM never met a QB he didnt like.

i could have passed on Chubb twice. Was assuming the Giants made the Jets/Colts trade.  Then i would have grabbed Chubb.  I hate a HB #2 overall.  Never agreed with that. 

[vinnie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:34:52 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:23:44 GMT -5 vinnie said:

An “average” RB would be more beneficial to a team with a great O line than a “dynamic” RB (who can’t even block) with a bad O line. 

OL is most important position group on the team 1B is the DL point is Drafting Barkely then Hernandez was sound draft strategy Will H was loved by scouts and evaluators he is not a bad Guard he just isn't a top 10 guard.

He’s not even top 20 man and again I don’t care about what scouts say, any of us could say we need a guard and look at Walter Football and/or who the majority of analysts think will be good and pick that guy. I thought DG was supposed to be some hog molly guru? I mean what is he getting paid to do if he’s just going off what the majority of scouts say? “Hey guys, we need a center…let me check Mel Kiper’s big board. Ok, we’re good to go”.

[moecoastie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:33:35 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:20:17 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

yeah, draft a tackle or something....not a guard.  Stop using OLine as an umbrella statement.  We're talking one Left Guard.  One player out of 5 on an OLine which badly needed a tackle.  a left freaking guard, bro.  I feel like Im in the twilight zone or something.  Again, I dont give a rip he's all everything...he's a left freaking guard.   Im not minimizing, he's a left guard. 

trade out or whatever but dont draft a guard #2.  But we aint going down that trade out rabbit hole because we dont know what we dont know.

Talking about being in the twilight zone, I can’t believe I’m arguing with football fans who think drafting a RB with the second overall pick on a rebuilding team was a good choice. Yes, he’s a left guard, I’m glad you understand what position he plays, left guard.

Did you watch Lemieux try to pass block last year? Do you realize he was close to leading the league in pressures, if he didn’t actually lead the league in pressures? Do you understand how much that effects the rest of the offense because I don’t think you do. Great, he’s a guard and not a tackle so at least DJ can look the guy in the eyes who is about to maul him instead of getting hit from behind. Nelson isn’t just some average LG, he’s a beast and will be in the HOF. BTW, he allowed ZERO sacks last year and mauled defenders over in the run game. Nah, we couldn’t use anyone like that, we’ll just get a guard in the second who won’t be that much of a drop off….oh wait, yeah that worked out well and 4 years later we still have a guard problem.

Im sorry, he's a left guard.  Ive seen LG off the streets play decent during my time watching the NFL.  Talk about dime a dozen bro.  I dont care how mean and nasty Nelson looks.  His position doesnt require much athletism.  Its the least athletic position on the freaking field bro.  All that mean and nastiness is cool and all but to do his job doesnt require much compared to the other 4 positions on the line.  Atleast the RG is on the dominant throwing arm to step up into.  If pick #2 would net us an entire 5 man OLIne...or even just a good tackle Im all for it...but a Left Guard?  NO way.

[vinnie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:39:36 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:33:35 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Talking about being in the twilight zone, I can’t believe I’m arguing with football fans who think drafting a RB with the second overall pick on a rebuilding team was a good choice. Yes, he’s a left guard, I’m glad you understand what position he plays, left guard.

Did you watch Lemieux try to pass block last year? Do you realize he was close to leading the league in pressures, if he didn’t actually lead the league in pressures? Do you understand how much that effects the rest of the offense because I don’t think you do. Great, he’s a guard and not a tackle so at least DJ can look the guy in the eyes who is about to maul him instead of getting hit from behind. Nelson isn’t just some average LG, he’s a beast and will be in the HOF. BTW, he allowed ZERO sacks last year and mauled defenders over in the run game. Nah, we couldn’t use anyone like that, we’ll just get a guard in the second who won’t be that much of a drop off….oh wait, yeah that worked out well and 4 years later we still have a guard problem.

Im sorry, he's a left guard.  Ive seen LG off the streets play decent during my time watching the NFL.  Talk about dime a dozen bro.  I dont care how mean and nasty Nelson looks.  His position doesnt require much athletism.  Its the least athletic position on the freaking field bro.  All that mean and nastiness is cool and all but to do his job doesnt require much compared to the other 4 positions on the line.  Atleast the RG is on the dominant throwing arm to step up into.  If pick #2 would net us an entire 5 man OLIne...or even just a good tackle Im all for it...but a Left Guard?  NO way.

If LG is such an unimportant and easy position to fill how come we haven’t been able to do that for years? Especially Gettleman? Again, do you realize how bad Lemieux was last year in the pass protection and how much his piss poor play contributed to the lack of offensive production? 

[moecoastie]

Sept 23, 2021 20:42:16 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:39:36 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Im sorry, he's a left guard.  Ive seen LG off the streets play decent during my time watching the NFL.  Talk about dime a dozen bro.  I dont care how mean and nasty Nelson looks.  His position doesnt require much athletism.  Its the least athletic position on the freaking field bro.  All that mean and nastiness is cool and all but to do his job doesnt require much compared to the other 4 positions on the line.  Atleast the RG is on the dominant throwing arm to step up into.  If pick #2 would net us an entire 5 man OLIne...or even just a good tackle Im all for it...but a Left Guard?  NO way.

If LG is such an unimportant and easy position to fill how come we haven’t been able to do that for years? Especially Gettleman? Again, do you realize how bad Lemieux was last year in the pass protection and how much his piss poor play contributed to the lack of offensive production? 

I get it.  Lemieux was bad....so were our WR, so was the play calling.  So was a lot of stuff.  One thing we were missing and it was plainly obvious is explosive plays.


Mind you, I freaking hate analytics and what it has done to the NFL fanbase but even I cannot deny two contributions they have provided us.  1.  Turnover worthy plays.  Because we all know as a kid we wish they had that stat.  2.  Highlighting the importance of explosive plays and its correlation to scoring.  Im telling you, Im not being funny either.  Get on this "explosive plays" train.  There is something to this. 

[BigBlueDog42]

Sept 23, 2021 20:39:34 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:34:52 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

OL is most important position group on the team 1B is the DL point is Drafting Barkely then Hernandez was sound draft strategy Will H was loved by scouts and evaluators he is not a bad Guard he just isn't a top 10 guard.

He’s not even top 20 man and again I don’t care about what scouts say, any of us could say we need a guard and look at Walter Football and/or who the majority of analysts think will be good and pick that guy. I thought DG was supposed to be some hog molly guru? I mean what is he getting paid to do if he’s just going off what the majority of scouts say? “Hey guys, we need a center…let me check Mel Kiper’s big board. Ok, we’re good to go”.

Baldy loved the guy if he likes the guy I believe him.

[vinnie]

Sept 23, 2021 21:10:56 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:39:34 GMT -5 vinnie said:

He’s not even top 20 man and again I don’t care about what scouts say, any of us could say we need a guard and look at Walter Football and/or who the majority of analysts think will be good and pick that guy. I thought DG was supposed to be some hog molly guru? I mean what is he getting paid to do if he’s just going off what the majority of scouts say? “Hey guys, we need a center…let me check Mel Kiper’s big board. Ok, we’re good to go”.

Baldy loved the guy if he likes the guy I believe him.

Ugh, baldy. People treat him like God around here.  If he doesn’t have any GM experience he doesn’t know what he’s talking about 

[BigBlueDog42]

Sept 23, 2021 21:20:46 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 21:10:56 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Baldy loved the guy if he likes the guy I believe him.

Ugh, baldy. People treat him like God around here.  If he doesn’t have any GM experience he doesn’t know what he’s talking about 

LOL next time I need some OL info I will come to you

[Roswell]

Sept 23, 2021 20:16:46 GMT -5 Kruunch said:

Sept 23, 2021 19:41:12 GMT -5 Roswell said:

I don’t have an answer for you but this is all day every day.  It’s like watching a security camera of an empty hallway.

We all get it.  A lot of people hated the pick 4 years ago and still hate it today.

But at some point the posts about the pick get ridiculous.  Besides, there’s so much else to complain about lol.  

A lot of people were all over Thomas for playing a poor half in a preseason game when he was sick.  He was a bust 3 weeks ago.  Now how’s he doing?  It’s just everything here is so overreacted to.  Way too much negativity.

No one called him a bust. Sick or not, poor play shouldn’t be absolved, it should be resolved. 
I’m also getting tired of seeing this nonsense about putting the leprosy label on critical fans. Last time I checked, this franchise has been medical waste for almost a decade. So, it doesn’t take a wizkid to see how most fans aren’t buying false hope. I’m called grumpy, critical, negative, you name it. All complete bullshit.. I call this team for what they are, I don’t hide behind the logo and put those goofy Giants glasses on. Team performs badly, they deserve the criticism. They play well, more props to them. Some act like we should blindly support a losing culture, **** that. I root no different then I have for decades, but I also have gotten much colder due in part to the losing. 

I also get it from the flip side. Negativity after a awhile can bring you down. Misery loves company.. And there is only so many times you can rip a team over and over. At some point, you have to start thinking are you even rooting for the team at this point? Look, winning cures all. When this franchise starts to play like true Giants. The doubters will come around.. 

And we’re talking about 2 different things.  Current play and past mistakes.  

People can always write what they want.  It’s a message board.

But at some point this constant dwelling on past mistakes, whether it be the cause of the current problem or not, gets real old.  Obviously no one can tell fans what to focus on but how many times can we bring up the same points about the past?

[jmike]

Sept 23, 2021 16:32:27 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 16:11:21 GMT -5 jmike said:

Here's a list of 2nd overall picks, I'm certain you will find more than 1 bad pick in there.


2021 Zach Wilson Jets 1 2 2 QB Brigham Young

2020 Chase Young Redskins 1 2 2 DE Ohio State

2019 Nick Bosa 49ers 1 2 2 DE Ohio State

2018 Saquon Barkley Giants 1 2 2 RB Penn State

2017 Mitchell Trubisky Bears 1 2 2 QB North Carolina

2016 Carson Wentz Eagles 1 2 2 QB North Dakota State

2015 Marcus Mariota Titans 1 2 2 QB Oregon

2014 Greg Robinson Rams 1 2 2 T Auburn

2013 Luke Joeckel Jaguars 1 2 2 T Texas A&M

2012 Robert Griffin Redskins 1 2 2 QB Baylor

2011 Von Miller Broncos 1 2 2 LB Texas A&M

2010 Ndamukong Suh Lions 1 2 2 DT Nebraska

2009 Jason Smith Rams 1 2 2 T Baylor

2008 Chris Long Rams 1 2 2 DE Virginia

2007 Calvin Johnson Lions 1 2 2 WR Georgia Tech

2006 Reggie Bush Saints 1 2 2 RB USC

2005 Ronnie Brown Dolphins 1 2 2 RB Auburn

2004 Robert Gallery Raiders 1 2 2 T Iowa

2003 Charles Rogers Lions 1 2 2 WR Michigan State

2002 Julius Peppers Panthers 1 2 2 DE North Carolina

2001 Leonard Davis Cardinals 1 2 2 T Texas

2000 LaVar Arrington Redskins 1 2 2 LB Penn State

1999 Donovan McNabb Eagles 1 2 2 QB Syracuse

1998 Ryan Leaf Chargers 1 2 2 QB Washington State

1997 Darrell Russell Raiders 1 2 2 DT USC

1996 Kevin Hardy Jaguars 1 2 2 LB Illinois

1995 Tony Boselli Jaguars 1 2 2 T USC

1994 Marshall Faulk Colts 1 2 2 RB San Diego State

1993 Rick Mirer Seahawks 1 2 2 QB Notre Dame

1992 Quentin Coryatt Colts 1 2 2 LB Texas A&M

1991 Eric Turner Browns 1 2 2 DB UCLA

1990 Blair Thomas Jets 1 2 2 RB Penn State

1989 Tony Mandarich Packers 1 2 2 T Michigan State

1988 Neil Smith Chiefs 1 2 2 DE Nebraska

1987 Cornelius Bennett Colts 1 2 2 LB Alabama

1986 Tony Casillas Falcons 1 2 2 DT Oklahoma

1985 Bill Fralic Falcons 1 2 2 T Pittsburgh

1984u Mike Rozier Oilers 1 2 2 RB Nebraska

1984 Dean Steinkuhler Oilers 1 2 2 T Nebraska

1983 Eric Dickerson Rams 1 2 2 RB Southern Methodist

1982 Johnie Cooks Colts 1 2 2 LB Mississippi State

1981 Lawrence Taylor Giants 1 2 2 LB North Carolina

1980 Lam Jones Jets 1 2 2 WR Texas

1979 Mike Bell Chiefs 1 2 2 DE Colorado State

1978 Art Still Chiefs 1 2 2 DE Kentucky

1977 Tony Dorsett Cowboys 1 2 2 RB Pittsburgh

1976 Steve Niehaus Seahawks 1 2 2 DT Notre Dame

1975 Randy White Cowboys 1 2 2 DT Maryland

1974 Bo Matthews Chargers 1 2 2 RB Colorado

1973 Bert Jones Colts 1 2 2 QB Louisiana State

1972 Sherman White Bengals 1 2 2 DE California

1971 Archie Manning Saints 1 2 2 QB Mississippi

1970 Mike McCoy Packers 1 2 2 DT Notre Dame

1969 George Kunz Falcons 1 2 2 T Notre Dame

1968 Bob Johnson Bengals 1 2 2 C Tennessee

1967 Clint Jones Vikings 1 2 2 RB Michigan State

1966 Tom Mack Rams 1 2 2 G Michigan

1965 Ken Willard 49ers 1 2 2 RB North Carolina

1964 Bob Brown Eagles 1 2 2 G Nebraska

1963 Jerry Stovall Cardinals 1 2 2 B Louisiana State

1962 Roman Gabriel Rams 1 2 2 QB North Carolina State

1961 Norm Snead Redskins 1 2 2 QB Wake Forest

1960 George Izo Cardinals 1 2 2 QB Notre Dame

1959 Dick Bass Rams 1 2 2 RB Pacific

1958 John David Crow Cardinals 1 2 2 RB Texas A&M

1957 Jon Arnett Rams 1 2 2 B USC

1956 Earl Morrall 49ers 1 2 2 QB Michigan State

1955 Max Boydston Cardinals 1 2 2 E Oklahoma

1954 Lamar McHan Cardinals 1 2 2 QB Arkansas

1953 Billy Vessels Colts 1 2 2 RB Oklahoma

1952 Les Richter Yanks 1 2 2 LB California

1951 Bob Williams Bears 1 2 2 QB Notre Dame

1950 Adrian Burk Colts 1 2 2 QB Baylor

1949 Johnny Rauch Lions 1 2 2 QB Georgia

1948 Tony (Skippy) Minisi Giants 1 2 2 B Penn/Navy

1947 Glenn Davis Lions 1 2 2 RB Army

1946 Dub Jones Cardinals 1 2 2 B Tulane

1945 Paul Duhart Steelers 1 2 2 B Florida

1944 Pat Harder Cardinals 1 2 2 B Wisconsin

1943 Joe Muha Eagles 1 2 2 B Virginia Military Inst

1942 Jack Wilson Rams 1 2 2 B Baylor

1941 John Kimbrough Cardinals 1 2 2 B Texas A&M

1940 George McAfee Eagles 1 2 2 RB Duke

1939 Sid Luckman Bears 1 2 2 QB Columbia

1938 Jim McDonald Eagles 1 2 2 B Ohio State

1937 Ed Goddard Dodgers 1 2 2 B Washington State

1936 Riley Smith Redskins 1 2 2 B Alabama

Did you miss the part where I said positional value? Now if you can condense that list to just RB’s in the 21st century and tell me how those teams fared with their RB in the Super Bowl, or even playoffs. I’m actually being generous extending it to the 21st century since the NFL didn’t become a more predominant passing league until much more recently.

You would also have to break down each team at the time and find their biggest needs, RB was clearly one of the last on the list for us but thanks for the research.

No, you are missing the point entirely.  Whether or not Barkley was a good or bad pick.  No single pick, good or bad, represents the GM.  All GMs make mistakes in the draft.  Often very high in the draft.  What represents the GM is whether or not the team improves in his time there.  So far the Giants have not improved in any significant way.  That represents DG, not the Barkley pick.

If Barkley was that "Generational" talent that all the people said he was leading up to the draft, his positional value wouldn't matter.  Trouble is he isn't and nobody should have expected him to be.

I have a general rule.  Once a person uses the term "generational", "transcendent" or other similar hyperbolic term to refer to a prospect, their opinion is disregarded.  Since they clearly have not followed the draft long enough to understand the idiocy in that type of description of a player who never played a single down in the NFL.

[vinnie]

Sept 23, 2021 21:30:37 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Sept 23, 2021 21:20:46 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Ugh, baldy. People treat him like God around here.  If he doesn’t have any GM experience he doesn’t know what he’s talking about 

LOL next time I need some OL info I will come to you

Just don’t go to Gettleman and you should do alright.

[Kruunch]

Sept 24, 2021 4:36:18 GMT -5 Roswell said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:16:46 GMT -5 Kruunch said:

No one called him a bust. Sick or not, poor play shouldn’t be absolved, it should be resolved. 
I’m also getting tired of seeing this nonsense about putting the leprosy label on critical fans. Last time I checked, this franchise has been medical waste for almost a decade. So, it doesn’t take a wizkid to see how most fans aren’t buying false hope. I’m called grumpy, critical, negative, you name it. All complete bullshit.. I call this team for what they are, I don’t hide behind the logo and put those goofy Giants glasses on. Team performs badly, they deserve the criticism. They play well, more props to them. Some act like we should blindly support a losing culture, **** that. I root no different then I have for decades, but I also have gotten much colder due in part to the losing. 

I also get it from the flip side. Negativity after a awhile can bring you down. Misery loves company.. And there is only so many times you can rip a team over and over. At some point, you have to start thinking are you even rooting for the team at this point? Look, winning cures all. When this franchise starts to play like true Giants. The doubters will come around.. 

And we’re talking about 2 different things.  Current play and past mistakes.  

People can always write what they want.  It’s a message board.

But at some point this constant dwelling on past mistakes, whether it be the cause of the current problem or not, gets real old.  Obviously no one can tell fans what to focus on but how many times can we bring up the same points about the past?

Past mistakes have caused current problems. So, they’re connected. You don’t lose they way we lose over the years without having massive mistakes all throughout the franchise. Chiefs fans look like morons when they complain over a bad loss. Ravens fans look foolish when they bitch about a two game losing streak. We on the other hand said, hold our beer. We’ve been doing that for almost a decade. 

[jmike]

Sept 23, 2021 17:26:18 GMT -5 Kruunch said:

Sept 23, 2021 17:12:11 GMT -5 Roswell said:

Yes. All of this might be true. But at some point you’ve got to move on. I can’t imagine anybody hasn’t said their piece about it 50 different ways already. It was 4 years ago. The horse is dead. .

Maybe if you take it up with your shrink? Or my shrink? Because this is beyond.

Seeing a shrink is for quitters. A sane man can turn insane in this world. Also, it much more fun being nuts.. 

No, it really isn't and it is very hard on your loved ones.

[vinnie]

Sept 24, 2021 8:32:35 GMT -5 jmike said:

Sept 23, 2021 16:32:27 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Did you miss the part where I said positional value? Now if you can condense that list to just RB’s in the 21st century and tell me how those teams fared with their RB in the Super Bowl, or even playoffs. I’m actually being generous extending it to the 21st century since the NFL didn’t become a more predominant passing league until much more recently.

You would also have to break down each team at the time and find their biggest needs, RB was clearly one of the last on the list for us but thanks for the research.

No, you are missing the point entirely.  Whether or not Barkley was a good or bad pick.  No single pick, good or bad, represents the GM.  All GMs make mistakes in the draft.  Often very high in the draft.  What represents the GM is whether or not the team improves in his time there.  So far the Giants have not improved in any significant way.  That represents DG, not the Barkley pick.

If Barkley was that "Generational" talent that all the people said he was leading up to the draft, his positional value wouldn't matter.  Trouble is he isn't and nobody should have expected him to be.

I have a general rule.  Once a person uses the term "generational", "transcendent" or other similar hyperbolic term to refer to a prospect, their opinion is disregarded.  Since they clearly have not followed the draft long enough to understand the idiocy in that type of description of a player who never played a single down in the NFL.

I get what you’re saying now but it’s still all tied together IMO. One single bad pick, especially with the 2nd overall, doesn’t define a GM but it speaks volumes in several other areas. He clearly misjudged the talent, or lack thereof, on the team. He placed a higher value on a RB in what is clearly a passing league than any other position on the field, we had needs everywhere. He doesn’t understand positional value. The pick itself had a negative trickle down effect which contributed to why we have had such a piss poor record for 3, going on 4, years.

Anyways, I see what you mean, no need to keep carrying this on. 

[jmike]

Sept 23, 2021 19:38:25 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Sept 23, 2021 19:16:40 GMT -5 vinnie said:

That’s not the point, the positional value of a RB is very low. I would rather have a perennial pro bowler guard for years to come than a pro bowl RB. A good line effects the entire team (QB, WR’s, RB, TE, etc) whereas a RB doesn’t have near the impact. It’s also been proven time and time again that a good O line can make even average RB’s look great and RB’s can be found deep in the draft.

Bleh, positional value. You realize that a LG is probably the least valuable OLineman out of the 5? Yes, a good line effects the offense a great deal but last I checked, a LG is ultra dependant on the ability of the 4 other guys on the line. So youre saying drafting a LG (least valuable player of the 5) when the team didnt even need a LG in '18 (we needed a tackle). It wasnt til 21 that we were even worried about the guard position. Sorry...no thank you. I dont give a rip if he's all everything...he's still a LG. The least athletic position on the football field.

Doesnt sound like a great value to me. But like I said " positional value" is an opinion that varies from person to person.

From a wins added standpoint, the difference between an average guard and a all pro guard is insignificant.  Lowest of all offensive positions.

[jmike]

Sept 23, 2021 20:23:44 GMT -5 vinnie said:

Sept 23, 2021 20:06:43 GMT -5 BigBlueDog42 said:

Production is production wether it comes from an RB / WR/ or TE positional value counts for guys who do less Guys like McCaffery Kamara Barkely Cooke will slice a team up catching and running it. The point is they could have gotten a bust or a decent player at least they have a dynamic player that hopefully will be that again sooner then later.

An “average” RB would be more beneficial to a team with a great O line than a “dynamic” RB (who can’t even block) with a bad O line. 

Since last season, Barkley would not rate as highly as average based on performance.  I don't think he reaches below average yet.  Right now he sucks and has an incredible ability to take what should be a 4 yard gain and make it a two yard loss.  People love to lay blame at the OL, and I will admit they haven't been great, but Barkley is getting fewer yards than this line is providing him.

So yes, an average RB and a great OL would be an improvement at both positions and will result in more wins.

[vinnie]

Sept 24, 2021 8:54:23 GMT -5 jmike said:

Sept 23, 2021 19:38:25 GMT -5 moecoastie said:

Bleh, positional value. You realize that a LG is probably the least valuable OLineman out of the 5? Yes, a good line effects the offense a great deal but last I checked, a LG is ultra dependant on the ability of the 4 other guys on the line. So youre saying drafting a LG (least valuable player of the 5) when the team didnt even need a LG in '18 (we needed a tackle). It wasnt til 21 that we were even worried about the guard position. Sorry...no thank you. I dont give a rip if he's all everything...he's still a LG. The least athletic position on the football field.

Doesnt sound like a great value to me. But like I said " positional value" is an opinion that varies from person to person.

From a wins added standpoint, the difference between an average guard and a all pro guard is insignificant.  Lowest of all offensive positions.

Problem is, we don’t even have an average guard, our guards suck and although not ideal, I would still take an above average guard over an above average RB, especially if I was rebuilding a team and had no O line.  Gettleman said it himself “I’m going to build from the inside out” and what does he do? The exact opposite.