Easy E
Special Teams
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Post by Easy E on Nov 24, 2021 11:46:13 GMT -5
Some concepts we will see on offense going forward.
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Post by ratbastich on Nov 24, 2021 12:41:02 GMT -5
It's so late in the season, it will be interesting to see what he can change or institute.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2021 12:43:56 GMT -5
it can't be worse.. I hope!!
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jerky
Special Teams
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Post by jerky on Nov 24, 2021 14:43:19 GMT -5
it was interesting hearing the part where he was talking about the previous OCs not having any man-beaters vs a man defense, it's the same thing I heard in the Monday night game. Hopefully Baldinger can make the same video next week except with the Giants.
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giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
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Post by giantsalmon on Nov 24, 2021 14:56:51 GMT -5
Thanks for posting. Without hope, what is there? I heard from a bunch of Browns fan clients of mine--"why did they pick Freddie?" When I reminded them Freddie got his failed HC gig because of his performance as an OC and work with Baker, they all to a man saw it differently.
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Post by moecoastie on Nov 24, 2021 14:59:13 GMT -5
Some concepts we will see on offense going forward. I already see the Giants use these formations and plays. This video is not encouraging to me. |
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Post by bigbluejeep8888 on Nov 24, 2021 15:36:14 GMT -5
Didn't kitckens get run out of town in Cleveland cause the offense became so bad? And by firing Garrett shouldn't that mean judge should of been fired too? Doesn't judge sign off on the gameplans? Purley my assumption, but I don't see Garrett ever over writing anything judge wanted to do.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 15:56:37 GMT -5
Freddie does one thing we haven't seen since TC and Shurmur, scheming up space getting guys open not with 6 inch windows and I'm sure Calloway will be helping him build a playbook as they go if this staff survives. I for one hope they do we have a 2 year investment in this coach and he finally has all his guys, they have gotten rid of the the three cowboys in Columbo/ Brown and Garret.
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 16:02:46 GMT -5
Freddie does one thing we haven't seen since TC and Shurmur, scheming up space getting guys open not with 6 inch windows and I'm sure Calloway will be helping him build a playbook as they go if this staff survives. I for one hope they do we have a 2 year investment in this coach and he finally has all his guys, they have gotten rid of the the three cowboys in Columbo/ Brown and Garret. Kitchens comes from the Erheart/Perkins system... Option routes. Toney and Shep run them ...(sometimes...didn't see many option routes Monday night with Toney) At the very least for one week our predictable tendencies will be broken ... |
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Post by Jomo on Nov 24, 2021 16:09:55 GMT -5
It's so late in the season, it will be interesting to see what he can change or institute. At a minimum, having him in there as OC and presumably calling plays will keep the defense guessing. That is progress. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Nov 24, 2021 16:32:32 GMT -5
Freddie does one thing we haven't seen since TC and Shurmur, scheming up space getting guys open not with 6 inch windows and I'm sure Calloway will be helping him build a playbook as they go if this staff survives. I for one hope they do we have a 2 year investment in this coach and he finally has all his guys, they have gotten rid of the the three cowboys in Columbo/ Brown and Garret. Kitchens comes from the Erheart/Perkins system... Option routes. Toney and Shep run them ...(sometimes...didn't see many option routes Monday night with Toney) At the very least for one week our predictable tendencies will be broken ... Kitchens hasn't been in an Earnhardt Perkins system since he was on Ken Wisehun't staff. For the last 10 years he been in an Air Coryell system coming up from Bruce Arians system as a QB coach. He even ran it as HC on the Browns. Probably why Garret wanted him also. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 16:39:13 GMT -5
Freddie does one thing we haven't seen since TC and Shurmur, scheming up space getting guys open not with 6 inch windows and I'm sure Calloway will be helping him build a playbook as they go if this staff survives. I for one hope they do we have a 2 year investment in this coach and he finally has all his guys, they have gotten rid of the the three cowboys in Columbo/ Brown and Garret. Kitchens comes from the Erheart/Perkins system... Option routes. Toney and Shep run them ...(sometimes...didn't see many option routes Monday night with Toney) At the very least for one week our predictable tendencies will be broken ... Option routes were a staple of KGs offense also, or am I mistaken. |
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Easy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,469
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Post by Easy E on Nov 24, 2021 16:51:51 GMT -5
Kitchens comes from the Erheart/Perkins system... Option routes. Toney and Shep run them ...(sometimes...didn't see many option routes Monday night with Toney) At the very least for one week our predictable tendencies will be broken ... Option routes were a staple of KGs offense also, or am I mistaken.  yep, receiver and QB needed to be on the same page if KG's system as they could make route changes on the fly. |
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Post by jaymas on Nov 24, 2021 16:58:08 GMT -5
Didn't kitckens get run out of town in Cleveland cause the offense became so bad? And by firing Garrett shouldn't that mean judge should of been fired too? Doesn't judge sign off on the gameplans? Purley my assumption, but I don't see Garrett ever over writing anything judge wanted to do. Plenty of good coordinators are just that, good coordinators and are never meant to be head coaches. Freddie was one and done because his team underachieved and there was a disconnect between him and his OC. Baker Mayfield also had a much worse second year than rookie year. Seems to me Kitchens was overwhelmed, since he went from QB coach to head coach in a matter of 8 games. It happens. He may never be cut out to be a head coach, but there's no evidence to say he can't be a successful coordinator. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 17:04:51 GMT -5
Kitchens comes from the Erheart/Perkins system... Option routes. Toney and Shep run them ...(sometimes...didn't see many option routes Monday night with Toney) At the very least for one week our predictable tendencies will be broken ... Kitchens hasn't been in an Earnhardt Perkins system since he was on Ken Wisehun't staff. For the last 10 years he been in an Air Coryell system coming up from Bruce Arians system as a QB coach. He even ran it as HC on the Browns. Probably why Garret wanted him also. [br Arians is an Erheart/Perkins guy.....the Gilbride version (which is why Brady was able to assimilate a lot of what New England ran into the Bucs offense) Air Coryell is a timing based passing attack that is very rigid with patterns,no option routes |
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Post by Zimonami on Nov 24, 2021 17:04:55 GMT -5
Didn't kitckens get run out of town in Cleveland cause the offense became so bad? And by firing Garrett shouldn't that mean judge should of been fired too? Doesn't judge sign off on the gameplans? Purley my assumption, but I don't see Garrett ever over writing anything judge wanted to do. When Judge was selected at 39 yrs old, to his fist gig as a HC, you didn't expect him to make some mistakes in his first chance at choosing coaches, out of a handful of available coaches who weren't already employed at another team? |
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 17:06:00 GMT -5
Kitchens comes from the Erheart/Perkins system... Option routes. Toney and Shep run them ...(sometimes...didn't see many option routes Monday night with Toney) At the very least for one week our predictable tendencies will be broken ... Option routes were a staple of KGs offense also, or am I mistaken. Yep Arians/Gilbride run the vertical style Erheart/Perkins (which has a ton of mutations which includes what we now know as the Air raid ) |
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 17:07:21 GMT -5
Option routes were a staple of KGs offense also, or am I mistaken. yep, receiver and QB needed to be on the same page if KG's system as they could make route changes on the fly. It's also what Jones ran at Duke (Cutcliff runs the Erheart/Perkins) |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 17:16:00 GMT -5
Option routes were a staple of KGs offense also, or am I mistaken. Yep Arians/Gilbride run the vertical style Erheart/Perkins (which has a ton of mutations which includes what we now know as the Air raid ) Thats what I. thought they needed to get more creative he has some young guys on the staff in Sale and Calloway who have run some modern style offenses in college also. If they do survive this they will have some other elements to ad to the pot. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 17:18:33 GMT -5
yep, receiver and QB needed to be on the same page if KG's system as they could make route changes on the fly. It's also what Jones ran at Duke (Cutcliff runs the Erheart/Perkins) I loved that offense but it was imperative they were on the same page sen some picks get taken back along ways because the WRs read the defense wrong one with Nicks against the Cowboys |
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 17:27:31 GMT -5
It's also what Jones ran at Duke (Cutcliff runs the Erheart/Perkins) I loved that offense but it was imperative they were on the same page sen some picks get taken back along ways because the WRs read the defense wrong one with Nicks against the Cowboys Biggest example of option routes gone wrong Cowhumpers/Steelers 3.0 O Donnells 2 ints were blown option routes.... But when it's run at a high level and your O line is even average you can't defend it (see Brady as well ) |
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Easy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,469
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Post by Easy E on Nov 24, 2021 17:31:33 GMT -5
Some concepts we will see on offense going forward. I already see the Giants use these formations and plays. This video is not encouraging to me. It's not necessarily about the formations, it is about concepts and philosophy. For example, a more aggressive play is to have the 1st read be a throw down field to your best contested catch WR vs same play...1st read being a curl/hook route, then second read a check down, then 3rd is deep shot in a more conservative approach. Garrett has coached DJ into "Conserve Ball", 10 play drives, take our time down the field. No explosive plays, don't take any chances. Don't be discouraged moecoastie, I promise, you will see a change in offensive philosophy. Kitchens coached under Bruce Arians and Bruce's mantra is "no risk it, no biscuit” as he wants to quarterbacks to take chances downfield. Go back and see how many 10+ yard throws noodle arm Colt McCoy attempted in the one game Kitchens called plays for the Giants last year. Throwing down field is one of DJ's best attributes, if not his best. He was among the best deep ball passers in the nation while at Duke and has continued that in the NFL Here are some stats in reference to Kitchens more aggressive approach. Go Big Blue! |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 17:32:29 GMT -5
I loved that offense but it was imperative they were on the same page sen some picks get taken back along ways because the WRs read the defense wrong one with Nicks against the Cowboys Biggest example of option routes gone wrong Cowhumpers/Steelers 3.0 O Donnells 2 ints were blown option routes.... But when it's run at a high level and your O line is even average you can't defend it (see Brady as well ) I remember I think it was Rodgers from the Niners in the championship game, They had sound bite of him being really frustrated something to affect I go one way the Receiver goes the other. Cruz was eating him alive |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 17:39:23 GMT -5
I loved that offense but it was imperative they were on the same page sen some picks get taken back along ways because the WRs read the defense wrong one with Nicks against the Cowboys Biggest example of option routes gone wrong Cowhumpers/Steelers 3.0 O Donnells 2 ints were blown option routes.... But when it's run at a high level and your O line is even average you can't defend it (see Brady as well ) At the very least we will be attempting to play NFL football on offense the next 7 games, as the games go by it should get better. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 17:41:18 GMT -5
I already see the Giants use these formations and plays. This video is not encouraging to me. It's not necessarily about the formations, it is about concepts and philosophy. For example, a more aggressive play is to have the 1st read be a throw down field to your best contested catch WR vs same play...1st read being a curl/hook route, then second read a check down, then 3rd is deep shot in a more conservative approach. Garrett has coached DJ into "Conserve Ball", 10 play drives, take our time down the field. No explosive plays, don't take any chances. Don't be discouraged moecoastie , I promise, you will see a change in offensive philosophy. Kitchens coached under Bruce Arians and Bruce's mantra is "no risk it, no biscuit” as he wants to quarterbacks to take chances downfield. Go back and see how many 10+ yard throws noodle arm Colt McCoy attempted in the one game Kitchens called plays for the Giants last year. Throwing down field is one of DJ's best attributes, if not his best. He was among the best deep ball passers in the nation while at Duke and has continued that in the NFL Here are some stats in reference to Kitchens more aggressive approach. Go Big Blue! I think in that 2019 season the Browns had issues on the interior OL and it really hurt Mayfield he isn't a tall QB interior pressure is bad for any QB worse fro him. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 17:41:38 GMT -5
I already see the Giants use these formations and plays. This video is not encouraging to me. It's not necessarily about the formations, it is about concepts and philosophy. For example, a more aggressive play is to have the 1st read be a throw down field to your best contested catch WR vs same play...1st read being a curl/hook route, then second read a check down, then 3rd is deep shot in a more conservative approach. Garrett has coached DJ into "Conserve Ball", 10 play drives, take our time down the field. No explosive plays, don't take any chances. Don't be discouraged moecoastie, I promise, you will see a change in offensive philosophy. Kitchens coached under Bruce Arians and Bruce's mantra is "no risk it, no biscuit” as he wants to quarterbacks to take chances downfield. Go back and see how many 10+ yard throws noodle arm Colt McCoy attempted in the one game Kitchens called plays for the Giants last year. Throwing down field is one of DJ's best attributes, if not his best. He was among the best deep ball passers in the nation while at Duke and has continued that in the NFL Here are some stats in reference to Kitchens more aggressive approach. Go Big Blue! I also think this will give Jones his last and best shot to salvage his career here .. I'm one of the few who haven't given up on him (while also contrary to a loud few have kept an open mind about a possible post Jones world after 2022 ) I'm thinking Judge and the people above him feel the same way (which is why Judge was allowed to get rid of Garrett as what we saw Monday night was obvious and horrific with the entire offense to the point that even if Garrett was Mara's golden child something had to be done. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 24, 2021 17:43:07 GMT -5
It's not necessarily about the formations, it is about concepts and philosophy. For example, a more aggressive play is to have the 1st read be a throw down field to your best contested catch WR vs same play...1st read being a curl/hook route, then second read a check down, then 3rd is deep shot in a more conservative approach. Garrett has coached DJ into "Conserve Ball", 10 play drives, take our time down the field. No explosive plays, don't take any chances. Don't be discouraged moecoastie , I promise, you will see a change in offensive philosophy. Kitchens coached under Bruce Arians and Bruce's mantra is "no risk it, no biscuit” as he wants to quarterbacks to take chances downfield. Go back and see how many 10+ yard throws noodle arm Colt McCoy attempted in the one game Kitchens called plays for the Giants last year. Throwing down field is one of DJ's best attributes, if not his best. He was among the best deep ball passers in the nation while at Duke and has continued that in the NFL Here are some stats in reference to Kitchens more aggressive approach. Go Big Blue! I think in that 2019 season the Browns had issues on the interior OL and it really hurt Mayfield he isn't a tall QB interior pressure is bad for any QB worse fro him. Yep Zeitler was here ,his on roster replacement Colbert busted and was traded (where he all of a sudden got good in LA). |
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Post by McCherry on Nov 24, 2021 18:14:08 GMT -5
It's also what Jones ran at Duke (Cutcliff runs the Erheart/Perkins) I loved that offense but it was imperative they were on the same page sen some picks get taken back along ways because the WRs read the defense wrong one with Nicks against the Cowboys I only hated the fact that young WR's could never get on the field, because KG required then to know every route tree. It took Manningham forever to learn that offense. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 18:45:24 GMT -5
I loved that offense but it was imperative they were on the same page sen some picks get taken back along ways because the WRs read the defense wrong one with Nicks against the Cowboys I only hated the fact that young WR's could never get on the field, because KG required then to know every route tree. It took Manningham forever to learn that offense. Really it was more complicated then that, they had to know the defense as well they had to understand the leverage the DB would be playing and how the coverage rotated they had to see it the same way as the QB those are the things that determined what route or route combo that WR ran and it better be the same as the QB. Thats why several times you would see Eli throw a ball to spot where no one was there. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Nov 24, 2021 18:50:35 GMT -5
It's not necessarily about the formations, it is about concepts and philosophy. For example, a more aggressive play is to have the 1st read be a throw down field to your best contested catch WR vs same play...1st read being a curl/hook route, then second read a check down, then 3rd is deep shot in a more conservative approach. Garrett has coached DJ into "Conserve Ball", 10 play drives, take our time down the field. No explosive plays, don't take any chances. Don't be discouraged moecoastie , I promise, you will see a change in offensive philosophy. Kitchens coached under Bruce Arians and Bruce's mantra is "no risk it, no biscuit” as he wants to quarterbacks to take chances downfield. Go back and see how many 10+ yard throws noodle arm Colt McCoy attempted in the one game Kitchens called plays for the Giants last year. Throwing down field is one of DJ's best attributes, if not his best. He was among the best deep ball passers in the nation while at Duke and has continued that in the NFL Here are some stats in reference to Kitchens more aggressive approach. Go Big Blue! I also think this will give Jones his last and best shot to salvage his career here .. I'm one of the few who haven't given up on him (while also contrary to a loud few have kept an open mind about a possible post Jones world after 2022 ) I'm thinking Judge and the people above him feel the same way (which is why Judge was allowed to get rid of Garrett as what we saw Monday night was obvious and horrific with the entire offense to the point that even if Garrett was Mara's golden child something had to be done. I am hoping against hope that this kid responds to this offense, there is nothing more I want then not to have to think about the QB position, he has familiarity with this offense and the verbiage shouldn't change much. Hopefully the other WRs get on the same page quickly. |
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yep, receiver and QB needed to be on the same page if KG's system as they could make route changes on the fly.
