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Post by jmike on Jan 12, 2022 14:21:50 GMT -5
Is Chris Mara an owner?I am not so sure of that. Maybe just John owns the team on the Mara side Repeating what I originally said. An owner, not a decision maker. Saying he doesn't have a voice in the building is very different than saying he isn't a decision maker. At work I am often asked for my input on decisions. I have a voice in decisions that the owners make. But they are the decision makers.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 14:23:53 GMT -5
I agree with Mara on this one. It's a total conspiracy theory that's just a reaction to losing because "how could the obvious answers be the truth when we've lost for this long." And who cares if Chris Mara has a voice? Dave Gettleman had a voice, and Marc Ross, and Jerry Reese, and Pat Shurmur, and Joe Judge. Improve the GM, improve the roster, pair it with a good coach. This all goes away.
Oh and Pat Leonard is a tool.
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Post by jmike on Jan 12, 2022 14:24:20 GMT -5
His presser just comes off as him whining about how the "media" is finally talking about his family's influence on day-to-day decisions and how he isn't able to acknowledge that as a problem. Ugh Well Let's see who we hire.... The good news is the media for the most part made John very uncomfortable We seemingly are going 100% outside the organization everywhere The bad news is Mara being so defensive Let's see in a year (because we won't know right away) Very sensible. Though I expect the first freak outs to occur with the next rumor of hire or non-hire. Give it about......umm...2 hours from now or so...
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 14:38:22 GMT -5
Repeating what I originally said. An owner, not a decision maker. False. Not what you originally said. You originally said, "he has no voice in the building." You can have a voice and influence but not the final say. It literally happens in business throughout the world every day. Now we’re into semantics. "no voice", or "no real voice" as was the exact quote by Raanan. Fine, I answered the question of this thread, which is why is he in the meeting? Because he is an owner, but not behind the decision-making process of the GM hire. Which was supported by John Mara. And also counters the belief held by many here that Chris Mara has secretly been running the team.
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Post by SG88 on Jan 12, 2022 14:38:44 GMT -5
His presser just comes off as him whining about how the "media" is finally talking about his family's influence on day-to-day decisions and how he isn't able to acknowledge that as a problem. Pat Leonard is an asshole, but he is partly right. Mara does come off as pissy about media. However, saying that he comes across as someone who is not going to change things internally is absurd. His actions of getting rid of Gettleman and Judge tell me that he is admitting that he was wrong. Actions speak louder than words, right?
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Post by jmike on Jan 12, 2022 14:43:02 GMT -5
False. Not what you originally said. You originally said, "he has no voice in the building." You can have a voice and influence but not the final say. It literally happens in business throughout the world every day. Now we’re into semantics. I answered the question of this thread, which is why is he in the meeting? Because he is an owner, but not behind the decision-making process of the GM hire. Which was supported by John Mara. And also counters the belief held by many here who've claimed he has secretly been running the team. That isn't semantics. "Not being decision maker" and "No voice in the building" are completely different things. It's like someone complaining you used a cup of salt instead of a cup of sugar in the cookies and you telling them it's just semantics. But, if what you meant was he isn't a decision maker, fine, reasonable enough take that seems accurate. Consider working on your phrasing in the future. This is a text based format, so using the wrong phrase for what you mean has a significant impact on the message.
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Post by jmike on Jan 12, 2022 14:46:04 GMT -5
His presser just comes off as him whining about how the "media" is finally talking about his family's influence on day-to-day decisions and how he isn't able to acknowledge that as a problem. Pat Leonard is an asshole, but he is partly right. Mara does come off as pissy about media. However, saying that he comes across as someone who is not going to change things internally is absurd. His actions of getting rid of Gettleman and Judge tell me that he is admitting that he was wrong. Actions speak louder than words, right? In fairness to Mara, the media is full of shitbag hacks. So being pissy with them is understandable; but not particularly productive or professional in any way.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 14:48:09 GMT -5
Now we’re into semantics. I answered the question of this thread, which is why is he in the meeting? Because he is an owner, but not behind the decision-making process of the GM hire. Which was supported by John Mara. And also counters the belief held by many here who've claimed he has secretly been running the team. That isn't semantics. "Not being decision maker" and "No voice in the building" are completely different things. It's like someone complaining you used a cup of salt instead of a cup of sugar in the cookies and you telling them it's just semantics. But, if what you meant was he isn't a decision maker, fine, reasonable enough take that seems accurate. Consider working on your phrasing in the future. This is a text based format, so using the wrong phrase for what you mean has a significant impact on the message. No voice, makes no decisions. Tomato, tomato. You know what I meant. This thread is about the idea that some fans think he’s running things.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 12, 2022 14:48:49 GMT -5
False. Not what you originally said. You originally said, "he has no voice in the building." You can have a voice and influence but not the final say. It literally happens in business throughout the world every day. Now we’re into semantics. "no voice", or "no real voice" as was the exact quote by Raanan. Fine, I answered the question of this thread, which is why is he in the meeting? Because he is an owner, but not behind the decision-making process of the GM hire. Which was supported by John Mara. And also counters the belief held by many here that Chris Mara has secretly been running the team. Skip / he's in the room during the GM interview process. That candidate is getting the job based on the input from Chris. He's an owner, the VP of player personnel who has to find players for the GM. MO is heathy and weird as ever. Go 🎿 Skip. Can't make it up
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 12, 2022 14:50:59 GMT -5
. . . meanwhile, the media had zero questions about their target Judge but did question both Gettleman and family members non-stop.
Yup
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Post by cdngfan on Jan 12, 2022 14:54:37 GMT -5
His presser just comes off as him whining about how the "media" is finally talking about his family's influence on day-to-day decisions and how he isn't able to acknowledge that as a problem. Pat Leonard is an asshole, but he is partly right. Mara does come off as pissy about media. However, saying that he comes across as someone who is not going to change things internally is absurd. His actions of getting rid of Gettleman and Judge tell me that he is admitting that he was wrong. Actions speak louder than words, right? The issue is can any GM or coach succeed if the mechanics they depend on to make decisions aren’t functioning properly? Good organizations are accepting of difficult feedback. It forces them to evaluate performance from a place of relative neutrality (you can’t be completely neutral) with the goal of getting better, no matter how uncomfortable. Bad organizations dismiss negative feedback as invalid and without merit from a place of self preservation. Sounds like John is willing to accept feedback on his GM//HC choices, just no further than that.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jan 12, 2022 14:56:49 GMT -5
Y'all treat poor Chris like Fredo...
poor guy is probably the brains of the operation. That man literally GREW UP in this sport. He's been around NFL caliber players his entire life. You don't think they know anything about football?
I guess maybe the issue is with adapting to the modern game.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 15:01:33 GMT -5
Y'all treat poor Chris like Fredo... poor guy is probably the brains of the operation. That is exactly what we are concerned about You do notice the free fall this organization has been in since he became VP player personnel
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wtfjjk
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Post by wtfjjk on Jan 12, 2022 15:03:26 GMT -5
Y'all treat poor Chris like Fredo... poor guy is probably the brains of the operation. That man literally GREW UP in this sport. He's been around NFL caliber players his entire life. You don't think they know anything about football? I guess maybe the issue is with adapting to the modern game. That would be wild if it turns out he was Michael all along trying to fix what Sonny and Fredo were screwing up.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2022 15:09:50 GMT -5
Come on Mike as it stands we are running a FO with 2.5 GMs. GM Chris and Tim. I don't know how many times John Mara has shot that down today, but you can choose to believe what you want. He cannot say it . He would lose faith with Tisch.
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Post by jmike on Jan 12, 2022 15:10:51 GMT -5
That isn't semantics. "Not being decision maker" and "No voice in the building" are completely different things. It's like someone complaining you used a cup of salt instead of a cup of sugar in the cookies and you telling them it's just semantics. But, if what you meant was he isn't a decision maker, fine, reasonable enough take that seems accurate. Consider working on your phrasing in the future. This is a text based format, so using the wrong phrase for what you mean has a significant impact on the message. No voice, makes no decisions. Tomato, tomato. You know what I meant. This thread is about the idea that some fans think he’s running things. Clearly quite a number of people didn't know what you meant. More like tomato, salmon. FFS.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 15:17:14 GMT -5
I don't know how many times John Mara has shot that down today, but you can choose to believe what you want. He cannot say it . He would lose faith with Tisch. What about losing the faith of his own brother by lying about his role?
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2022 15:19:43 GMT -5
He cannot say it . He would lose faith with Tisch. What about losing the faith of his own brother by lying about his role? Good point. I hope you are correct .I am not convinced that there is not some form of meddling that is transpiring.
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te88
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Post by te88 on Jan 12, 2022 15:45:03 GMT -5
Maybe Chris is just in the interviews to see what they think of his horses or what they thought of Rooney in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo?
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 15:47:14 GMT -5
His answer to this starts at 8:00 (actually Duggan's question). It was a thorough, clear, and transparent answer that didn't reek of hiding anything. Don't know what more people want. This franchise's problems aren't due to some secret cabal Chris Mara runs inside the organization. He also confirmed if the head coach or GM are in agreement, he's not overriding anything.
I mean he genuinely answered this question 3 times during this. I don't know what people want.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2022 15:49:51 GMT -5
Maybe Chris is just in the interviews to see what they think of his horses or what they thought of Rooney in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? Or Kate in The Martin.
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Post by jmike on Jan 12, 2022 16:22:01 GMT -5
His answer to this starts at 8:00 (actually Duggan's question). It was a thorough, clear, and transparent answer that didn't reek of hiding anything. Don't know what more people want. This franchise's problems aren't due to some secret cabal Chris Mara runs inside the organization. He also confirmed if the head coach or GM are in agreement, he's not overriding anything. I mean he genuinely answered this question 3 times during this. I don't know what people want. I think people don't want owners in positions that should be answerable to the GM. If you were the GM of a hotel, would you be comfortable with the owner being a banquet manager? Whether they think it does or not; it impacts the GMs decision making process and ability to hold that position accountable. Chris Mara could be the greatest personnel guy in the NFL; it is still a dumb idea to have him in that position. Make him the GM or get him out of football operations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 16:24:53 GMT -5
He is an owner has every right to be there. Means nothing, he has no voice in the building. Then what purpose does he serve in the interview process? Why not have the janitor in on the interview? How about team nutritionist too?
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 16:36:17 GMT -5
His answer to this starts at 8:00 (actually Duggan's question). It was a thorough, clear, and transparent answer that didn't reek of hiding anything. Don't know what more people want. This franchise's problems aren't due to some secret cabal Chris Mara runs inside the organization. He also confirmed if the head coach or GM are in agreement, he's not overriding anything. I mean he genuinely answered this question 3 times during this. I don't know what people want. I think people don't want owners in positions that should be answerable to the GM. If you were the GM of a hotel, would you be comfortable with the owner being a banquet manager? Whether they think it does or not; it impacts the GMs decision making process and ability to hold that position accountable. Chris Mara could be the greatest personnel guy in the NFL; it is still a dumb idea to have him in that position. Make him the GM or get him out of football operations. John Mara saying the GM and the head coach decide things, and if that's the case 99.9% of the time he just agrees, tells me they have that authority. I'll be the rooney's operate the same exact way. Owners don't meddle in football ops, but have a "final approval" (even though it's just agreeing with the people put in charge) because they own the team. I'll bet all 32 teams operate that way. The explanation here is simple, we've had a terrible run of hiring people in the two most important positions in the franchise. Mara admitted the last GM hunt was rushed and flawed. That GM stunk, his first head coach stunk, his second head coach came into dysfunction and also ended up stinking,so you've got two people drawing consensus on roster building that weren't good at their jobs. That's how you get a bad team. I don't think it's any more complicated than that. Right off the bat, it looks like our GM hire will bring a fresh perspective because it isn't 3 internal candidates and Lousi Riddick. That guy is going to recommend a hire for coach. And there's a 99.9 percent chance John Mara agrees to that. If both those people don't suck, things will turn around.
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te88
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Post by te88 on Jan 12, 2022 16:36:30 GMT -5
His answer to this starts at 8:00 (actually Duggan's question). It was a thorough, clear, and transparent answer that didn't reek of hiding anything. Don't know what more people want. This franchise's problems aren't due to some secret cabal Chris Mara runs inside the organization. He also confirmed if the head coach or GM are in agreement, he's not overriding anything. I mean he genuinely answered this question 3 times during this. I don't know what people want. I think people don't want owners in positions that should be answerable to the GM. If you were the GM of a hotel, would you be comfortable with the owner being a banquet manager? Whether they think it does or not; it impacts the GMs decision making process and ability to hold that position accountable. Chris Mara could be the greatest personnel guy in the NFL; it is still a dumb idea to have him in that position. Make him the GM or get him out of football operations. Yes. Anyone who has experience with corporate governance would agree with you. Family members in positions is a problem. Doesn’t matter how good they are, the organization needs at the minimum formal controls that can put limits on those relationships. But ideally they are not they are not there at all. Imagine being an outside GM who does not agree with the evaluations of Tim and or Chris and John asks you to reconsider? These are the hypotheticals that these stupid relationships give rise to. If they are so good and so respected at their jobs then they should be able to convince the new GM to keep them on. But if the new GM would rather not have them then that should be that.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 12, 2022 17:36:33 GMT -5
“John Mara said that Chris Mara spends most of his time doing evaluation of college players and he particiaptes in the draft but all personnel decisions have been made by the GM and HC. #Giants“ Lol So they are supposed to make good draft decisions with shitty evaluations? No John, he is an integral part of it and front and center to why we suck, personnel wise.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 12, 2022 17:41:40 GMT -5
Maybe Chris is just in the interviews to see what they think of his horses or what they thought of Rooney in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? if Ranaan or any media member tweeted that the Skips would believe it.
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:46:26 GMT -5
I think people don't want owners in positions that should be answerable to the GM. If you were the GM of a hotel, would you be comfortable with the owner being a banquet manager? Whether they think it does or not; it impacts the GMs decision making process and ability to hold that position accountable. Chris Mara could be the greatest personnel guy in the NFL; it is still a dumb idea to have him in that position. Make him the GM or get him out of football operations. Yes. Anyone who has experience with corporate governance would agree with you. Family members in positions is a problem. Doesn’t matter how good they are, the organization needs at the minimum formal controls that can put limits on those relationships. But ideally they are not they are not there at all. Imagine being an outside GM who does not agree with the evaluations of Tim and or Chris and John asks you to reconsider? These are the hypotheticals that these stupid relationships give rise to. If they are so good and so respected at their jobs then they should be able to convince the new GM to keep them on. But if the new GM would rather not have them then that should be that. YES! You sir get it! This is exactly the problem and will continue to be unless John finally yields to the GM to do as that GM pleases with the positions Chris and the cronies occupy.
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