te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,995
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Post by te88 on Feb 2, 2022 13:46:38 GMT -5
Good:
Based on what we know about the HC hiring process it looks like Joe Shoen really has been given the keys to the kingdom. His candidate won out despite ownership pressure to go with Flores.
Bad:
The situation around the HC search kinda poisons things for Daboll and Shoen. Hopefully they can put blinders on and just do their jobs. Leave that whole mess to the Maras who created it.
Ugly:
The owners are still quite emboldened to try to run this team like their little hobby. They really do fancy themselves big time football guys. Shoen is going to be dealing with some childish and unprofessional crap for these first few years as the Maras learn you cannot leak information, or divulge details of private conversations with competitors and “friends.” It’s going to be interesting - will the Maras grow up or will Shoen have to cut them out of most things…if the Maras feel left in the dark it will not surprise me to start seeing the media leaks and questioning our new GM. I have such a low opinion of these fools.
In the end this is the place I thought this organization was at. I think Shoen has a good shot to make meaningful change here. I can rip Mara all day long but ultimately he did make a concession by letting the GM hire the coach and the unfortunate details around Flores actually do a lot to prove that.
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 2, 2022 13:53:14 GMT -5
There are two kinds of owners in this world, my friend. Those who leave team operations alone, and those who meddle and dig the team deep into a hole.
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Tyrell
Special Teams
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Post by Tyrell on Feb 2, 2022 13:56:33 GMT -5
schoens job especially just got harder, its gonna take some stones to navigate all this and the maras, and probsbly have to defend his hiring of daboll to varying degrees
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Post by GameTime on Feb 2, 2022 14:27:39 GMT -5
Good: Based on what we know about the HC hiring process it looks like Joe Shoen really has been given the keys to the kingdom. His candidate won out despite ownership pressure to go with Flores. Bad: The situation around the HC search kinda poisons things for Daboll and Shoen. Hopefully they can put blinders on and just do their jobs. Leave that whole mess to the Maras who created it. Ugly: The owners are still quite emboldened to try to run this team like their little hobby. They really do fancy themselves big time football guys. Shoen is going to be dealing with some childish and unprofessional crap for these first few years as the Maras learn you cannot leak information, or divulge details of private conversations with competitors and “friends.” It’s going to be interesting - will the Maras grow up or will Shoen have to cut them out of most things…if the Maras feel left in the dark it will not surprise me to start seeing the media leaks and questioning our new GM. I have such a low opinion of these fools. In the end this is the place I thought this organization was at. I think Shoen has a good shot to make meaningful change here. I can rip Mara all day long but ultimately he did make a concession by letting the GM hire the coach and the unfortunate details around Flores actually do a lot to prove that. Mara also hired Schoen. I agree they need to step back but the team is not some little hobby. Its their family business spanning 3 generations (at least in the Mara side). Not like billionaire Jerry Jones who buys a teams because he can. Rip them all you want and the last 10 years they deserve it.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,995
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Post by te88 on Feb 2, 2022 14:37:44 GMT -5
Good: Based on what we know about the HC hiring process it looks like Joe Shoen really has been given the keys to the kingdom. His candidate won out despite ownership pressure to go with Flores. Bad: The situation around the HC search kinda poisons things for Daboll and Shoen. Hopefully they can put blinders on and just do their jobs. Leave that whole mess to the Maras who created it. Ugly: The owners are still quite emboldened to try to run this team like their little hobby. They really do fancy themselves big time football guys. Shoen is going to be dealing with some childish and unprofessional crap for these first few years as the Maras learn you cannot leak information, or divulge details of private conversations with competitors and “friends.” It’s going to be interesting - will the Maras grow up or will Shoen have to cut them out of most things…if the Maras feel left in the dark it will not surprise me to start seeing the media leaks and questioning our new GM. I have such a low opinion of these fools. In the end this is the place I thought this organization was at. I think Shoen has a good shot to make meaningful change here. I can rip Mara all day long but ultimately he did make a concession by letting the GM hire the coach and the unfortunate details around Flores actually do a lot to prove that. Mara also hired Schoen. I agree they need to step back but the team is not some little hobby. Its their family business spanning 3 generations (at least in the Mara side). Not like billionaire Jerry Jones who buys a teams because he can. Rip them all you want and the last 10 years they deserve it. Precisely it is NOT a hobby - but they treat it like one. They seem to think it is their little fiefdom rather than a professional organization. The conduct of John and Tim in this little hoopla shows how much they have to learn. It would also appear that the reason this team continues to have problems with leaks is because their source is the Mara family. At least Jerry Jones is up front about how he runs things. Unlike these fools who are texting and phoning job candidates, asking/sharing information with competitors. Feeding the beat writers lies to distract from their involvement. The Maras are clandestine.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 2, 2022 14:43:20 GMT -5
Mara also hired Schoen. I agree they need to step back but the team is not some little hobby. Its their family business spanning 3 generations (at least in the Mara side). Not like billionaire Jerry Jones who buys a teams because he can. Rip them all you want and the last 10 years they deserve it. Precisely it is NOT a hobby - but they treat it like one. They seem to think it is their little fiefdom rather than a professional organization. The conduct of John and Tim in this little hoopla shows how much they have to learn. It would also appear that the reason this team continues to have problems with leaks is because their source is the Mara family. At least Jerry Jones is up front about how he runs things. Unlike these fools who are texting and phoning job candidates, asking/sharing information with competitors. Feeding the beat writers lies to distract from their involvement. The Maras are clandestine. how did Belichick find out? was it Mara?
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 2, 2022 14:45:12 GMT -5
Precisely it is NOT a hobby - but they treat it like one. They seem to think it is their little fiefdom rather than a professional organization. The conduct of John and Tim in this little hoopla shows how much they have to learn. It would also appear that the reason this team continues to have problems with leaks is because their source is the Mara family. At least Jerry Jones is up front about how he runs things. Unlike these fools who are texting and phoning job candidates, asking/sharing information with competitors. Feeding the beat writers lies to distract from their involvement. The Maras are clandestine. how did Belichick find out? was it Mara? He probably had Judge bug Mara's office.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Feb 2, 2022 14:49:39 GMT -5
schoens job especially just got harder, its gonna take some stones to navigate all this and the maras, and probsbly have to defend his hiring of daboll to varying degrees I wonder if he is having regrets already...
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Post by repeatchamps on Feb 2, 2022 15:02:20 GMT -5
schoens job especially just got harder, its gonna take some stones to navigate all this and the maras, and probsbly have to defend his hiring of daboll to varying degrees I wonder if he is having regrets already... After all this came out about Tim McDonell, I immediately thought the same thing.
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wtfjjk
Special Teams
Posts: 1,195
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Post by wtfjjk on Feb 2, 2022 15:52:08 GMT -5
If this disaster finally gets John Mara to take both Fredos (Chris, Tim) on the boat with him, sign me up!
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 2, 2022 15:53:24 GMT -5
This feels more like Flores has a chip on his shoulder against the league than it being Mara's fault in my opinion.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 2, 2022 16:42:48 GMT -5
how do you rebuild a team that has no money for the job, thats going to be hard...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 16:45:40 GMT -5
There are two kinds of owners in this world, my friend. Those who leave team operations alone, and those who meddle and dig the team deep into a hole. “I like big fat men like you. When they fall down they make more noise….and sometimes they never get up!”
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Post by McCherry on Feb 2, 2022 16:52:31 GMT -5
schoens job especially just got harder, its gonna take some stones to navigate all this and the maras, and probsbly have to defend his hiring of daboll to varying degrees I wonder if he is having regrets already... About what?
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,995
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Post by te88 on Feb 2, 2022 17:08:28 GMT -5
This feels more like Flores has a chip on his shoulder against the league than it being Mara's fault in my opinion. If the Mara boys had left this entirely in the capable hands of their GM they would not be embroiled in this lawsuit. There would not be texts from Tim McDonnell, Flores would not have an inflated perception of his chances at the job and chances are Bill Belichick would not know anything about the process. Loose lips sink ships. McDonnell and Mara are learning more and more every day that they don’t have a good eye for HC candidates.
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 2, 2022 17:15:37 GMT -5
how do you rebuild a team that has no money for the job, thats going to be hard... Pray.. First, you hit more than you miss in the draft. The draft is essential to bad teams with pocket change for a salary cap. Second, you rid yourselves with bad contracts. Meaning, say goodbye to some household names this offseason. This roster needs to go through a spin cycle. Out with the old, in with the new.
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Post by Bigjeep on Feb 2, 2022 17:20:24 GMT -5
Load of nonsense and sour grapes!
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 2, 2022 17:20:31 GMT -5
This feels more like Flores has a chip on his shoulder against the league than it being Mara's fault in my opinion. If the Mara boys had left this entirely in the capable hands of their GM they would not be embroiled in this lawsuit. There would not be texts from Tim McDonnell, Flores would not have an inflated perception of his chances at the job and chances are Bill Belichick would not know anything about the process. Loose lips sink ships. McDonnell and Mara are learning more and more every day that they don’t have a good eye for HC candidates. Who said it was inflated? If you believe the Giants Flores was at the top of the list with Dabol right up to the 11th hour. It makes sense to have a backup plan after Matt Rhule went to the Panthers last time we wanted a new coach.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,995
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Post by te88 on Feb 2, 2022 18:04:04 GMT -5
If the Mara boys had left this entirely in the capable hands of their GM they would not be embroiled in this lawsuit. There would not be texts from Tim McDonnell, Flores would not have an inflated perception of his chances at the job and chances are Bill Belichick would not know anything about the process. Loose lips sink ships. McDonnell and Mara are learning more and more every day that they don’t have a good eye for HC candidates. Who said it was inflated? If you believe the Giants Flores was at the top of the list with Dabol right up to the 11th hour. It makes sense to have a backup plan after Matt Rhule went to the Panthers last time we wanted a new coach. The Maras pumped him up starting right from the day Judge was fired and made him feel like it was his job to lose - despite not having a GMi place and not knowing what said GM thought of Flores. I think Flores was on the Maras short list but not on Schoens. If the Maras had waited and let Schoen lead I doubt Flores gets more than a phone interview. Based on the circumstances surrounding his firings (regardless what is true/not true) there were too many red flags. He was never the coach a new GM trying to rebuild an org was going to bring in.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Feb 2, 2022 18:27:29 GMT -5
Who said it was inflated? If you believe the Giants Flores was at the top of the list with Dabol right up to the 11th hour. It makes sense to have a backup plan after Matt Rhule went to the Panthers last time we wanted a new coach. The Maras pumped him up starting right from the day Judge was fired and made him feel like it was his job to lose - despite not having a GMi place and not knowing what said GM thought of Flores. I think Flores was on the Maras short list but not on Schoens. If the Maras had waited and let Schoen lead I doubt Flores gets more than a phone interview. Based on the circumstances surrounding his firings (regardless what is true/not true) there were too many red flags. He was never the coach a new GM trying to rebuild an org was going to bring in. I agree the Maras liked him. I think the GM had an open mind to him because the GM did value prior head coaching experience but he also knew Dabol and other Buffalo guys. The Maras showed some real interest in Flores. It was sincere in my opinion. Nothing that makes them worthy of a lawsuit in my mind.
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smitty
Special Teams
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Post by smitty on Feb 3, 2022 0:53:22 GMT -5
The Maras pumped him up starting right from the day Judge was fired and made him feel like it was his job to lose - despite not having a GMi place and not knowing what said GM thought of Flores. I think Flores was on the Maras short list but not on Schoens. If the Maras had waited and let Schoen lead I doubt Flores gets more than a phone interview. Based on the circumstances surrounding his firings (regardless what is true/not true) there were too many red flags. He was never the coach a new GM trying to rebuild an org was going to bring in. I agree the Maras liked him. I think the GM had an open mind to him because the GM did value prior head coaching experience but he also knew Dabol and other Buffalo guys. The Maras showed some real interest in Flores. It was sincere in my opinion. Nothing that makes them worthy of a lawsuit in my mind. Agreed. Just another example of why Mara should be doing nothing more than hiring a GM, and writing checks.
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Post by jimmieray on Feb 3, 2022 7:43:38 GMT -5
There are two kinds of owners in this world, my friend. Those who leave team operations alone, and those who meddle and dig the team deep into a hole. “I like big fat men like you. When they fall down they make more noise….and sometimes they never get up!” "You want to know who you are? Huh? Huh? You don't, I do, everyone does... you're the son of a thousand fathers, all bastards like you!"
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Feb 3, 2022 8:24:58 GMT -5
There are two kinds of owners in this world, my friend. Those who leave team operations alone, and those who meddle and dig the team deep into a hole.
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Post by Jomo on Feb 3, 2022 9:25:14 GMT -5
Good: Based on what we know about the HC hiring process it looks like Joe Shoen really has been given the keys to the kingdom. His candidate won out despite ownership pressure to go with Flores. Bad: The situation around the HC search kinda poisons things for Daboll and Shoen. Hopefully they can put blinders on and just do their jobs. Leave that whole mess to the Maras who created it. Ugly: The owners are still quite emboldened to try to run this team like their little hobby. They really do fancy themselves big time football guys. Shoen is going to be dealing with some childish and unprofessional crap for these first few years as the Maras learn you cannot leak information, or divulge details of private conversations with competitors and “friends.” It’s going to be interesting - will the Maras grow up or will Shoen have to cut them out of most things…if the Maras feel left in the dark it will not surprise me to start seeing the media leaks and questioning our new GM. I have such a low opinion of these fools. In the end this is the place I thought this organization was at. I think Shoen has a good shot to make meaningful change here. I can rip Mara all day long but ultimately he did make a concession by letting the GM hire the coach and the unfortunate details around Flores actually do a lot to prove that. I am not buying that Mara was on board for Flores..... just an educated hunch. Mara is not the type of guy who's gonna make a quick hiring decision with a guy who just got canned over disputes with his GM and QB. Regardless of the back story, it would take more than a couple of phone calls to figure out what actually went down in Miami. Mara is too risk averse to forge ahead in that scenario. It could very well be a ruse wherein Mara can say, I not only satisfied the Rooney rule but preferred him to Schoen. It was my GM who chose that direction. There is no level of incompetence I'd rule out with JM.
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Post by bluejayc on Feb 3, 2022 9:42:56 GMT -5
My take is this is an absolute nothingburger that is already behind most of the Giants staff.....hand it to the lawyers and move on.....the only pain in the ass is answering the repeated asinine questions from the media.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,995
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Post by te88 on Feb 3, 2022 9:43:52 GMT -5
Good: Based on what we know about the HC hiring process it looks like Joe Shoen really has been given the keys to the kingdom. His candidate won out despite ownership pressure to go with Flores. Bad: The situation around the HC search kinda poisons things for Daboll and Shoen. Hopefully they can put blinders on and just do their jobs. Leave that whole mess to the Maras who created it. Ugly: The owners are still quite emboldened to try to run this team like their little hobby. They really do fancy themselves big time football guys. Shoen is going to be dealing with some childish and unprofessional crap for these first few years as the Maras learn you cannot leak information, or divulge details of private conversations with competitors and “friends.” It’s going to be interesting - will the Maras grow up or will Shoen have to cut them out of most things…if the Maras feel left in the dark it will not surprise me to start seeing the media leaks and questioning our new GM. I have such a low opinion of these fools. In the end this is the place I thought this organization was at. I think Shoen has a good shot to make meaningful change here. I can rip Mara all day long but ultimately he did make a concession by letting the GM hire the coach and the unfortunate details around Flores actually do a lot to prove that. I am not buying that Mara was on board for Flores..... just an educated hunch. Mara is not the type of guy who's gonna make a quick hiring decision with a guy who just got canned over disputes with his GM and QB. Regardless of the back story, it would take more than a couple of phone calls to figure out what actually went down in Miami. Mara is too risk averse to forge ahead in that scenario. It could very well be a ruse wherein Mara can say, I not only satisfied the Rooney rule but preferred him to Schoen. It was my GM who chose that direction. There is no level of incompetence I'd rule out with JM. I think Timmy exerts a huge amount of influence. He is JMs heir in terms of who will take over the Giants one day. Tim had a call into Flores the DAY Judge was fired and proceeded to pump him up and make him feel like it was his job to lose. John Mara was either complicit or actively supportive of this courting. It is no surprise that Flores is reacting like a bride left at the altar. The way the Maras (Tim especially) fawned over him he probably thought he had it in the bag.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 3, 2022 10:33:08 GMT -5
how do you rebuild a team that has no money for the job, thats going to be hard... Pray.. First, you hit more than you miss in the draft. The draft is essential to bad teams with pocket change for a salary cap. Second, you rid yourselves with bad contracts. Meaning, say goodbye to some household names this offseason. This roster needs to go through a spin cycle. Out with the old, in with the new. I agree that we have to clean the roster of contracts that just pay players wasted money, but the team must be careful not to let a good player go just because our coaching staff wasn't good enough...
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Post by Jomo on Feb 3, 2022 12:48:49 GMT -5
I am not buying that Mara was on board for Flores..... just an educated hunch. Mara is not the type of guy who's gonna make a quick hiring decision with a guy who just got canned over disputes with his GM and QB. Regardless of the back story, it would take more than a couple of phone calls to figure out what actually went down in Miami. Mara is too risk averse to forge ahead in that scenario. It could very well be a ruse wherein Mara can say, I not only satisfied the Rooney rule but preferred him to Schoen. It was my GM who chose that direction. There is no level of incompetence I'd rule out with JM. I think Timmy exerts a huge amount of influence. He is JMs heir in terms of who will take over the Giants one day. Tim had a call into Flores the DAY Judge was fired and proceeded to pump him up and make him feel like it was his job to lose. John Mara was either complicit or actively supportive of this courting. It is no surprise that Flores is reacting like a bride left at the altar. The way the Maras (Tim especially) fawned over him he probably thought he had it in the bag. There is the next generation of incompetence on full display. The job was not Tim's to offer. Why is he even making contact with a candidate? Generational stupidity at its finest.
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Feb 3, 2022 13:57:30 GMT -5
I think Timmy exerts a huge amount of influence. He is JMs heir in terms of who will take over the Giants one day. Tim had a call into Flores the DAY Judge was fired and proceeded to pump him up and make him feel like it was his job to lose. John Mara was either complicit or actively supportive of this courting. It is no surprise that Flores is reacting like a bride left at the altar. The way the Maras (Tim especially) fawned over him he probably thought he had it in the bag. There is the next generation of incompetence on full display. The job was not Tim's to offer. Why is he even making contact with a candidate? Generational stupidity at its finest. Despite John Maras lies and whatever fake job title they give him, Tim McDonnell is JMs Lieutenant and is being groomed as the next team President. And he operates basically an extension of John. So unfortunately he does speak for John and yes it was incompetent and inappropriate. Had they waited until they had their GM in place they would not be in this situation. Tim should be fired or at least taken out of circulation for a year to let the new GM get his feet under him without further interference. Like I said, the fact the Schoen prevailed in the HC hiring decision IS a good thing. But he has a lot to teach the children running this organization about how to do things the right way.
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Post by Jomo on Feb 3, 2022 17:57:34 GMT -5
There is the next generation of incompetence on full display. The job was not Tim's to offer. Why is he even making contact with a candidate? Generational stupidity at its finest. Despite John Maras lies and whatever fake job title they give him, Tim McDonnell is JMs Lieutenant and is being groomed as the next team President. And he operates basically an extension of John. So unfortunately he does speak for John and yes it was incompetent and inappropriate. Had they waited until they had their GM in place they would not be in this situation. Tim should be fired or at least taken out of circulation for a year to let the new GM get his feet under him without further interference. Like I said, the fact the Schoen prevailed in the HC hiring decision IS a good thing. But he has a lot to teach the children running this organization about how to do things the right way. If this bs is true regarding timmy, Schoen should be in JMs face over it. This is horrendously poor execution.
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