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Post by knixknation on Feb 24, 2023 17:05:12 GMT -5
I became a Giants fan back at the age of 9 back in '81. I remember the first time I heard about any feud between Wellington Mara and his Nephew Tim Mara was after SB XXI when Brent Mussberger actually referred to it on the podium, saying even thought Wellington and Tim don't get along, they had put their situation aside for the benefit of the team. What was really crazy about it was that Tim was standing right there at the time. Anyhow, I looked up the reason as to why the feud happened and found it really interesting. In 1979 the team was coming off the embarrassment of losing to the Eagles the year before because of "The Fumble". This was the nadir of how the once proud franchise had become a laughing stock. Then GM Andy Robustelli had resigned. Wellington wanted to first hire a new coach and THEN higher a Director Of Operations/GM. Tim Mara was tired of the same old same old way that Wellington had run the team. He pushed for a change of they way things were run. He first wanted to hire the GM and then have that person choose the coach. Wellington comes off as a kind of control freak, where he even though each owned 50% of the team, Wellington as President felt he had the final say vs Tim as the Vice President. Tim vehemently disagreed. After fighting this battle publicly in the press, causing more embarrassment, they ended up going to Commissioner Roselle to arbitrate. Roselle wisely promoted George Young to the Mara's as the best candidate for GM...and the rest is history. In retrospect, Tim seemed to know what he was talking about, while Wellington seemed to just want a "yes man" as coach. I think Tim should get more props for the Giants turn around than he gets credit. If it wasn't for him not rubber-stamping what Wellington wanted...the direction of the team could very well continued as it had in the many years before. Their relationship never recovered and they never spoke with each other again. Tim died of cancer in '95 and Wellington 10 years later in '05. If any fans older than me have any more insight to the feud, I would love to hear it. Mara vs Mara |
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 24, 2023 18:02:28 GMT -5
Once a Giant always a Giant . . . don’t let it fool you, this Mara family has a degree in dysfunction.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 25, 2023 12:22:59 GMT -5
I became a Giants fan back at the age of 9 back in '81. I remember the first time I heard about any feud between Wellington Mara and his Nephew Tim Mara was after SB XXI when Brent Mussberger actually referred to it on the podium, saying even thought Wellington and Tim don't get along, they had put their situation aside for the benefit of the team. What was really crazy about it was that Tim was standing right there at the time. Anyhow, I looked up the reason as to why the feud happened and found it really interesting. In 1979 the team was coming off the embarrassment of losing to the Eagles the year before because of "The Fumble". This was the nadir of how the once proud franchise had become a laughing stock. Then GM Andy Robustelli had resigned. Wellington wanted to first hire a new coach and THEN higher a Director Of Operations/GM. Tim Mara was tired of the same old same old way that Wellington had run the team. He pushed for a change of they way things were run. He first wanted to hire the GM and then have that person choose the coach. Wellington comes off as a kind of control freak, where he even though each owned 50% of the team, Wellington as President felt he had the final say vs Tim as the Vice President. Tim vehemently disagreed. After fighting this battle publicly in the press, causing more embarrassment, they ended up going to Commissioner Roselle to arbitrate. Roselle wisely promoted George Young to the Mara's as the best candidate for GM...and the rest is history. In retrospect, Tim seemed to know what he was talking about, while Wellington seemed to just want a "yes man" as coach. I think Tim should get more props for the Giants turn around than he gets credit. If it wasn't for him not rubber-stamping what Wellington wanted...the direction of the team could very well continued as it had in the many years before. Their relationship never recovered and they never spoke with each other again. Tim died of cancer in '95 and Wellington 10 years later in '05. If any fans older than me have any more insight to the feud, I would love to hear it. Mara vs Mara They did not go to Pete Roselle let's make that clear and to assume Tim was right and Wellington was wrong is another misnomer. Tim didn't like a damn thing he Uncle did, nothing, they fought about saying Good Morning. Tim also lacked the knowledge that was needed in the NFL. Wellington was Old school no question but the point is nether was right. It was the fans burning tickets to one of the Flagship teams in the NFL that made Pete Roselle get involved and it was he that made the Giants hire George Young and turn over football control to him. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 25, 2023 12:24:24 GMT -5
Once a Giant always a Giant . . . don’t let it fool you, this Mara family has a degree in dysfunction. All families do. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 26, 2023 14:38:34 GMT -5
I became a Giants fan back at the age of 9 back in '81. I remember the first time I heard about any feud between Wellington Mara and his Nephew Tim Mara was after SB XXI when Brent Mussberger actually referred to it on the podium, saying even thought Wellington and Tim don't get along, they had put their situation aside for the benefit of the team. What was really crazy about it was that Tim was standing right there at the time. Anyhow, I looked up the reason as to why the feud happened and found it really interesting. In 1979 the team was coming off the embarrassment of losing to the Eagles the year before because of "The Fumble". This was the nadir of how the once proud franchise had become a laughing stock. Then GM Andy Robustelli had resigned. Wellington wanted to first hire a new coach and THEN higher a Director Of Operations/GM. Tim Mara was tired of the same old same old way that Wellington had run the team. He pushed for a change of they way things were run. He first wanted to hire the GM and then have that person choose the coach. Wellington comes off as a kind of control freak, where he even though each owned 50% of the team, Wellington as President felt he had the final say vs Tim as the Vice President. Tim vehemently disagreed. After fighting this battle publicly in the press, causing more embarrassment, they ended up going to Commissioner Roselle to arbitrate. Roselle wisely promoted George Young to the Mara's as the best candidate for GM...and the rest is history. In retrospect, Tim seemed to know what he was talking about, while Wellington seemed to just want a "yes man" as coach. I think Tim should get more props for the Giants turn around than he gets credit. If it wasn't for him not rubber-stamping what Wellington wanted...the direction of the team could very well continued as it had in the many years before. Their relationship never recovered and they never spoke with each other again. Tim died of cancer in '95 and Wellington 10 years later in '05. If any fans older than me have any more insight to the feud, I would love to hear it. Mara vs Mara They did not go to Pete Roselle let's make that clear and to assume Tim was right and Wellington was wrong is another misnomer. Tim didn't like a damn thing he Uncle did, nothing, they fought about saying Good Morning. Tim also lacked the knowledge that was needed in the NFL. Wellington was Old school no question but the point is nether was right. It was the fans burning tickets to one of the Flagship teams in the NFL that made Pete Roselle get involved and it was he that made the Giants hire George Young and turn over football control to him. That's an interesting view which I have not heard before.
Isn't it true the Wellington was running the team which led to 18 years without the playoffs?
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 26, 2023 20:40:05 GMT -5
They did not go to Pete Roselle let's make that clear and to assume Tim was right and Wellington was wrong is another misnomer. Tim didn't like a damn thing he Uncle did, nothing, they fought about saying Good Morning. Tim also lacked the knowledge that was needed in the NFL. Wellington was Old school no question but the point is nether was right. It was the fans burning tickets to one of the Flagship teams in the NFL that made Pete Roselle get involved and it was he that made the Giants hire George Young and turn over football control to him. That's an interesting view which I have not heard before.
Isn't it true the Wellington was running the team which led to 18 years without the playoffs?
Tim's Dad Jack dies in 65 he and Wellington had been running the Operation successfully and rumors were Wellington ran it like Jack wanted and had been. Tim (his nephew wanted a different direction) and as I said the two couldn't agree on Good Morning. One could read into it that the family disfunction in general paid a big part in the 17 years of dysfunction. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 26, 2023 21:54:38 GMT -5
They did not go to Pete Roselle let's make that clear and to assume Tim was right and Wellington was wrong is another misnomer. Tim didn't like a damn thing he Uncle did, nothing, they fought about saying Good Morning. Tim also lacked the knowledge that was needed in the NFL. Wellington was Old school no question but the point is nether was right. It was the fans burning tickets to one of the Flagship teams in the NFL that made Pete Roselle get involved and it was he that made the Giants hire George Young and turn over football control to him. That's an interesting view which I have not heard before.
Isn't it true the Wellington was running the team which led to 18 years without the playoffs?
The answer is yes that Wellington was running the team during the 18 year stretch of not making the playoffs. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 27, 2023 5:06:56 GMT -5
That's an interesting view which I have not heard before.
Isn't it true the Wellington was running the team which led to 18 years without the playoffs?
The answer is yes that Wellington was running the team during the 18 year stretch of not making the playoffs. Not that simple. It was 50-50 down the middle and because the two could not agree on anything they both ran it during the 18 year stretch. Thing to remember is that Wellington and Jack ran it together and won a hell of a lot. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 27, 2023 10:52:21 GMT -5
The answer is yes that Wellington was running the team during the 18 year stretch of not making the playoffs. Not that simple. It was 50-50 down the middle and because the two could not agree on anything they both ran it during the 18 year stretch. Thing to remember is that Wellington and Jack ran it together and won a hell of a lot. Oh I remember I lived through the riches to rags transformation of the Giants When I was 10 -18 we were in the NFL Championship game 6 times in 8 years. 1956 thru 1963. We only won in '56 over the Bears. Then the 18 years of losing and not making the playoffs. I remember the sniping back and forth, ticket burning parties in the parking lot, the plane flying over head dragging the banner "Mara Sucks". I was at the "fumble game" I was so angry after that game for 3-5 days I was lucky I wasn't arrested. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 27, 2023 11:04:13 GMT -5
Not that simple. It was 50-50 down the middle and because the two could not agree on anything they both ran it during the 18 year stretch. Thing to remember is that Wellington and Jack ran it together and won a hell of a lot. Oh I remember I lived through the riches to rags transformation of the Giants When I was 10 -18 we were in the NFL Championship game 6 times in 8 years. 1956 thru 1963. We only won in '56 over the Bears. Then the 18 years of losing and not making the playoffs. I remember the sniping back and forth, ticket burning parties in the parking lot, the plane flying over head dragging the banner "Mara Sucks". I was at the "fumble game" I was so angry after that game for 3-5 days I was lucky I wasn't arrested. Can't say everyone but at a bunch and if not me it was my brother. I swear our Dad thought we would get out tickets revoked if we didn't stop! Make no mistake I'm not trying to clear Wellington of any wrong doing , just the opposite I'm blaming both of them. People forget the Giants had two GMs before Young. NY Giant General Managers 2018-2021 Dave Gettleman 2007-2017 Jerry Reese 1998-2006 Ernie Accorsi 1979-1997 George Young 1974-1978 Andy Robustelli 1947-1973 Ray Walsh |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 27, 2023 11:18:03 GMT -5
Oh I remember I lived through the riches to rags transformation of the Giants When I was 10 -18 we were in the NFL Championship game 6 times in 8 years. 1956 thru 1963. We only won in '56 over the Bears. Then the 18 years of losing and not making the playoffs. I remember the sniping back and forth, ticket burning parties in the parking lot, the plane flying over head dragging the banner "Mara Sucks". I was at the "fumble game" I was so angry after that game for 3-5 days I was lucky I wasn't arrested. Can't say everyone but at a bunch and if not me it was my brother. I swear our Dad thought we would get out tickets revoked if we didn't stop! Make no mistake I'm not trying to clear Wellington of any wrong doing , just the opposite I'm blaming both of them. People forget the Giants had two GMs before Young. NY Giant General Managers 2018-2021 Dave Gettleman 2007-2017 Jerry Reese 1998-2006 Ernie Accorsi 1979-1997 George Young 1974-1978 Andy Robustelli 1947-1973 Ray Walsh lol, Thanks Mendy I didn't even know about Ray Walsh. Never heard of him. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Feb 27, 2023 11:19:55 GMT -5
Can't say everyone but at a bunch and if not me it was my brother. I swear our Dad thought we would get out tickets revoked if we didn't stop! Make no mistake I'm not trying to clear Wellington of any wrong doing , just the opposite I'm blaming both of them. People forget the Giants had two GMs before Young. NY Giant General Managers 2018-2021 Dave Gettleman 2007-2017 Jerry Reese 1998-2006 Ernie Accorsi 1979-1997 George Young 1974-1978 Andy Robustelli 1947-1973 Ray Walsh lol, Thanks Mendy I didn't even know about Ray Walsh. Never heard of him. I don't think he was a GM as we think of them today pretty sure back then he had a multitude of duties. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 27, 2023 21:06:19 GMT -5
lol, Thanks Mendy I didn't even know about Ray Walsh. Never heard of him. I don't think he was a GM as we think of them today pretty sure back then he had a multitude of duties. Your probably right, From what I remember Wellington made all the decisions. Well publically anyway if I remember correctly. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 24, 2023 9:24:32 GMT -5
Simply put the game had passed Wellington by just as it did George Young who needed Earnie to help him out and so on, wining in the 40s, 50s and 60s was a different recipe than what it took in the 70s 80sand 90s.
Recently we had 2 GMs that prescribed to the George and Earnie way of doing things that the game passed them by. GMs need to grow with the game.
That said the commissioner stepped in because the largest market in the NFL had 2 losing teams and the flagship franchise was struggling mightily the feud in my opinion was more personnel than any of us know.
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