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Post by inthezone on Feb 8, 2024 14:42:05 GMT -5
The team has to move forward with Neal being a bust. Even if he does become average at either spot his durability is a big issue. What if we switch him over to LG and he becomes a beast, he wont be a bust at that point. His durability isnt great, but I dont believe thats what would determine him to be a bust or not at this point in his career. His inability to grow, adapt, and compete for a starting role would determine him a bust What if he goes out and finds a HoFer who was a tackle in the league and trains with him? What if he took up yoga and learned how to keep his balance? What if he moves over to LG and continues to get run over? I still think that the team needs to look at him as a bust at this point and make any decisions as if he is. If something wild occurs and he does finally get it then the team will be at a point to pay him big or stick with the player they drafted in 2024 who has a couple of years on his rookie contract. If they don't find a suitable player in FA to be a starting RT or Guard then the team should be selecting one of the top prospect in the 1st.
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Post by Nite on Feb 8, 2024 17:56:21 GMT -5
That is an opinion usually formed by unknowlegible sports writers and draft 'experts'. Rich, don't get sucked into 'opinion consensus' by the ill informed. The smart organizations do their homework and watch hundreds of hours of tape and do many interviews before making a decision. Before Peyton Manning was drafted by the Colts it was rumored that the scouting depart had over 200 hours of tape on him. Their opinions on a prospect are waaay different than the writers. Also there is a fallacy among quite a few fans that we must draft a 'franchise' QB. I feel that this is a mistake. This would cause teams to either over or under value a prospect based on unrealistic expectations. I think we should aim for a starter prospect with a decent upside ceiling. We don't need a star we just need a good QB that can put points on the board on a regular basis and is reliable A quarterback who can put points on the board consistently.. Is a star.. Hell, put the word reliable on him and he’s changing the face of a franchise. The best to ever lace them up elevated their teams to heights that scratched the surface of the sun. From the can’t misses to the ones that had to fight tooth and nail to make it. Every general manager worth his weight in salt is looking for that guy. A beast who puts food on their plates. Most fail to do so and pay the ultimate price for it. You know what you have when you don’t have a franchise quarterback? A nobody.. Its sad that part of the fanbase that thinks basic starter qualities makes a QB a star. Shows you how low we have become as a franchise. Would love to draft a star but I would settle for a decent starter then work on building the team around him. We desperately need to get this QB either in the draft or in FA
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 8, 2024 20:49:52 GMT -5
A quarterback who can put points on the board consistently.. Is a star.. Hell, put the word reliable on him and he’s changing the face of a franchise. The best to ever lace them up elevated their teams to heights that scratched the surface of the sun. From the can’t misses to the ones that had to fight tooth and nail to make it. Every general manager worth his weight in salt is looking for that guy. A beast who puts food on their plates. Most fail to do so and pay the ultimate price for it. You know what you have when you don’t have a franchise quarterback? A nobody.. It’s sad that part of the fanbase that thinks basic starter qualities makes a QB a star. Shows you how low we have become as a franchise. Would love to draft a star but I would settle for a decent starter then work on building the team around him. We desperately need to get this QB either in the draft or in FA There’s nothing basic about delivering every Sunday.. This isn’t the ‘50s where merely showing up was enough. You have to do a lot in today’s league just to hang around. High first round picks are now getting curb stomped faster than ever.. Instead of giving the position enough rope to hang the whole franchise.. Teams are cutting bait before they plunge into the icy waters. Don’t look at how we do business.. we are strangling to death trying to break our own necks. The Cardinals jettisoned Josh Rosen before he hit the ground. The 49ers gave up a kings ransom for Trey Lance.. And knew when to kick the court jester out. Know what you have and act fast before it’s too late. Look at our very own Eli Manning. He was the furthest thing from consistency. However, when the chips were down he ante up. When the postseason rolled up.. he became cold blooded. Leave the settling for the settlers.. No one is expecting a star to come down on us and give us light. What we should expect is a player who rises above the ashes and produces when it matters most.
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Post by inconvenientruth on Feb 8, 2024 21:11:58 GMT -5
It’s sad that part of the fanbase that thinks basic starter qualities makes a QB a star. Shows you how low we have become as a franchise. Would love to draft a star but I would settle for a decent starter then work on building the team around him. We desperately need to get this QB either in the draft or in FA There’s nothing basic about delivering every Sunday.. This isn’t the ‘50s where merely showing up was enough. You have to do a lot in today’s league just to hang around. High first round picks are now getting curb stomped faster than ever.. Instead of giving the position enough rope to hang the whole franchise.. Teams are cutting bait before they plunge into the icy waters. Don’t look at how we do business.. we are strangling to death trying to break our own necks. The Cardinals jettisoned Josh Rosen before he hit the ground. The 49ers gave up a kings ransom for Trey Lance.. And knew when to kick the court jester out. Know what you have and act fast before it’s too late. Look at our very own Eli Manning. He was the furthest thing from consistency. However, when the chips were down he ante up. When the postseason rolled up.. he became cold blooded. Leave the settling for the settlers.. No one is expecting a star to come down on us and give us light. What we should expect is a player who rises above the ashes and produces when it matters most. Perfectly put.
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Post by IrishMike on Feb 9, 2024 16:52:22 GMT -5
I'm saying that giving anything of quality at the position to 8 is a waste of time and money. We already have drafted receivers early 3 seasons in a row. We got him Darren Waller and also have 3 olineman drafted in the first 2 rounds blocking for the guy I get that several of the supporters of 8 want to continue trying to give him help with early draft picks. I see him as a lost cause that would waste any more help that would be provided. I respect the opinions that disagree with me. I just think that he is toast. I'm not gonna Modog and blame everything on him, but enough is enough. We drafted early WRs...do we have a #1 WR? No. We got him early OL...is the OL good? No.
Now whether we keep Jones or not we will need a #1 WR and an improved OL. You can dislike Jones all you want but not improving the offense because they keep him is a pretty horrible plan.
"would waste any more help that would be provided". The alternative is NOT trying to improve, I hope they don't try and not improve lol. I get you not liking Jones and understand if you want to draft a QB in the first, but we will need to improve this offense more than simply adding a QB to the dumpster fire.
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Post by DJones19 on Mar 3, 2024 15:18:57 GMT -5
Odunze looked like amazing at the combine...so smooth. Going to change my vote to him.
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Post by keyofgmen on Mar 3, 2024 15:30:10 GMT -5
I will go ahead and say it. Giving receivers of this caliber to our current QB room is basically throwing them in the dumpster. It's like putting rims on a Ford Pinto. HEY!... back off!! I loved my red pinto in the mid 70s! It was a big hit in High School.... haha...
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 3, 2024 15:32:05 GMT -5
Coleman
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Post by Analyst on Mar 3, 2024 15:36:49 GMT -5
If we trade back for sure an option. Love Coleman. Harrison Jr, Nabers and Odunze are the crowned jewels though.
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Post by Analyst on Mar 3, 2024 15:39:22 GMT -5
Odunze looked like amazing at the combine...so smooth. Going to change my vote to him. He is a beast, but something worries me about taller WRs and the NYG. Plax might have been the last one to work for us that was over 6'. Since, its been Nicks, Cruz, Odell, Manningham, Steve Smith, now with Wandale Robinson and Jalin Hyatt (hope they are ballers). Nabers seems to be the better fit for us. I really do like Odunze though too.
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giantbob71
Special Teams
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 3, 2024 22:10:59 GMT -5
Odunze looked like amazing at the combine...so smooth. Going to change my vote to him. Always good to judge NFL WR talent, in spandex, with no safties trying to kill them. Same with the QBs...who cares if a guy can throw with no pads, no helmet, no pass rush, and no defense. Buying into a guy based on combine results is fools gold. I watched Xavier Worthy, at Texas, for the last 2 years...he's good but doesn't run, in pads, like a 4.21 WR, and drops a lot of balls. I'd take his teammate, the Georgia transfer, over him anyday. A guy who runs a 4.21, in college, should be dominant...but some dumb team (probably Raiders) will draft him in the 1st because of his 40 time.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 4, 2024 6:37:05 GMT -5
Odunze looked like amazing at the combine...so smooth. Going to change my vote to him. Always good to judge NFL WR talent, in spandex, with no safties trying to kill them. Same with the QBs...who cares if a guy can throw with no pads, no helmet, no pass rush, and no defense. Buying into a guy based on combine results is fools gold. I watched Xavier Worthy, at Texas, for the last 2 years...he's good but doesn't run, in pads, like a 4.21 WR, and drops a lot of balls. I'd take his teammate, the Georgia transfer, over him anyday. A guy who runs a 4.21, in college, should be dominant...but some dumb team (probably Raiders) will draft him in the 1st because of his 40 time. if you saw Odunze's game film, you'd be impressed. He catches everything in his reach, including a lot of contested balls. The kids a gamer for sure. His combine was simply icing on the cake.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2024 11:45:54 GMT -5
He is a beast, but something worries me about taller WRs and the NYG. Plax might have been the last one to work for us that was over 6'. Since, its been Nicks, Cruz, Odell, Manningham, Steve Smith, now with Wandale Robinson and Jalin Hyatt (hope they are ballers). Nabers seems to be the better fit for us. I really do like Odunze though too. Plax was the last good WR over 6' that we brought in here though. These other guys have been undrafted rookies, practice squad players and random tall dudes.
I'm good with Nabers or Odunze (or Coleman) but think I'm leaning towards Odunze still. His hanging out after every other player left the field just to try and improve shows his work ethic compared to Nabers choosing not to take part. It's really hard to ignore the LSU WR factory though with Odell, Chase and JJ. Is Nabers the next one?
Glad I don't have to make this decision.
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Post by bluebuddha on Mar 4, 2024 11:51:58 GMT -5
He is a beast, but something worries me about taller WRs and the NYG. Plax might have been the last one to work for us that was over 6'. Since, its been Nicks, Cruz, Odell, Manningham, Steve Smith, now with Wandale Robinson and Jalin Hyatt (hope they are ballers). Nabers seems to be the better fit for us. I really do like Odunze though too. Plax was the last good WR over 6' that we brought in here though. These other guys have been undrafted rookies, practice squad players and random tall dudes.
I'm good with Nabers or Odunze (or Coleman) but think I'm leaning towards Odunze still. His hanging out after every other player left the field just to try and improve shows his work ethic compared to Nabers choosing not to take part. It's really hard to ignore the LSU WR factory though with Odell, Chase and JJ. Is Nabers the next one?
Glad I don't have to make this decision.
I liked Rome's interviews over Nabers. Skill wise I take either.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2024 11:54:45 GMT -5
I liked Rome's interviews over Nabers. Skill wise I take either. He seems very mature and I think he "get's it".
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Post by Analyst on Mar 4, 2024 12:22:21 GMT -5
He is a beast, but something worries me about taller WRs and the NYG. Plax might have been the last one to work for us that was over 6'. Since, its been Nicks, Cruz, Odell, Manningham, Steve Smith, now with Wandale Robinson and Jalin Hyatt (hope they are ballers). Nabers seems to be the better fit for us. I really do like Odunze though too. Plax was the last good WR over 6' that we brought in here though. These other guys have been undrafted rookies, practice squad players and random tall dudes.
I'm good with Nabers or Odunze (or Coleman) but think I'm leaning towards Odunze still. His hanging out after every other player left the field just to try and improve shows his work ethic compared to Nabers choosing not to take part. It's really hard to ignore the LSU WR factory though with Odell, Chase and JJ. Is Nabers the next one?
Glad I don't have to make this decision.
The obvious names seem to be Ramses Barden and Kenny Golladay between the draft and FA. Forgot Darius Slayton & Sterling Shepard in that 6' and under crowd. Geremy Davis was also a big body we drafted late that didnt work out. Rueben Randle was ok I guess.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 4, 2024 12:51:02 GMT -5
any picks they make have nothing to do with Jones overall. The picks will have to do with making this team better regardless. Whether its OL or WR in round 1 Jones will benefit for sure but its about the future after he is gone in 2025.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2024 13:41:54 GMT -5
any picks they make have nothing to do with Jones overall. The picks will have to do with making this team better regardless. Whether its OL or WR in round 1 Jones will benefit for sure but its about the future after he is gone in 2025. That's one thing I keep saying, glad to see others say it too. This team has to improve REGARDLESS of what they do at QB. Whether it's Jones or JJ McCarthy or GameTime or some unknown college QB starting in the next two years our team needs to improve. Fixing the OL, adding a WR #1 or any other decision would help Jones currently and any other QB should he fail.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2024 13:45:19 GMT -5
The obvious names seem to be Ramses Barden and Kenny Golladay between the draft and FA. Forgot Darius Slayton & Sterling Shepard in that 6' and under crowd. Geremy Davis was also a big body we drafted late that didnt work out. Rueben Randle was ok I guess. I think the NFL as a whole has been seeing more success from 6' and under WRs recently. Rome actually talks a little about it in his interview stating how this WR class is bigger than normal WRs draft classes. I certainly won't worry about Rome being a failure because Barden and Golladay failed here. We've had plenty of poor short guys as well, we taken so many more of them that there are a lot more successes though.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 4, 2024 14:17:04 GMT -5
any picks they make have nothing to do with Jones overall. The picks will have to do with making this team better regardless. Whether its OL or WR in round 1 Jones will benefit for sure but its about the future after he is gone in 2025. That's one thing I keep saying, glad to see others say it too. This team has to improve REGARDLESS of what they do at QB. Whether it's Jones or JJ McCarthy or GameTime or some unknown college QB starting in the next two years our team needs to improve. Fixing the OL, adding a WR #1 or any other decision would help Jones currently and any other QB should he fail.
I'll have to drink heavily if that Gametime guy wins our starting spot, lol...
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Post by GameTime on Mar 4, 2024 14:32:06 GMT -5
any picks they make have nothing to do with Jones overall. The picks will have to do with making this team better regardless. Whether its OL or WR in round 1 Jones will benefit for sure but its about the future after he is gone in 2025. That's one thing I keep saying, glad to see others say it too. This team has to improve REGARDLESS of what they do at QB. Whether it's Jones or JJ McCarthy or GameTime or some unknown college QB starting in the next two years our team needs to improve. Fixing the OL, adding a WR #1 or any other decision would help Jones currently and any other QB should he fail.
Well they haven't called me yet but I'd be willing to give a shot. Although I am an injury risk at my age!! lol
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giantbob71
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Post by giantbob71 on Mar 4, 2024 15:39:38 GMT -5
Always good to judge NFL WR talent, in spandex, with no safties trying to kill them. Same with the QBs...who cares if a guy can throw with no pads, no helmet, no pass rush, and no defense. Buying into a guy based on combine results is fools gold. I watched Xavier Worthy, at Texas, for the last 2 years...he's good but doesn't run, in pads, like a 4.21 WR, and drops a lot of balls. I'd take his teammate, the Georgia transfer, over him anyday. A guy who runs a 4.21, in college, should be dominant...but some dumb team (probably Raiders) will draft him in the 1st because of his 40 time. if you saw Odunze's game film, you'd be impressed. He catches everything in his reach, including a lot of contested balls. The kids a gamer for sure. His combine was simply icing on the cake. I saw him play 4-5 times this year...I'm not arguing thede guys aren't great talents. Just don't move them up because of the combine. The combine should be used to confirm a guy is quick...or fast...or strong...but evaluations should 99% on game film. Same goes for senior bowl practices. It's like Rattler...he's impressive in a combine setting because he has a quick release and good (possibly borderline great) arm strength. However, I watched the kid go from Heisman favorite to backup, at Oklahoma, because he changed plays in the huddle, wanted to play hero ball, doesn't move in the pocket well, is slow as hell when scrambling, and wasn't liked by his teammates. Granted, I didn't follow him at SC, but he's nothing special at actually playing the game...and very doubtful he stopped being a dickhead the last 2 years. He's the only QB to be benched by Lincoln Riley.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 4, 2024 15:50:11 GMT -5
if you saw Odunze's game film, you'd be impressed. He catches everything in his reach, including a lot of contested balls. The kids a gamer for sure. His combine was simply icing on the cake. I saw him play 4-5 times this year...I'm not arguing thede guys aren't great talents. Just don't move them up because of the combine. The combine should be used to confirm a guy is quick...or fast...or strong...but evaluations should 99% on game film. Same goes for senior bowl practices. It's like Rattler...he's impressive in a combine setting because he has a quick release and good (possibly borderline great) arm strength. However, I watched the kid go from Heisman favorite to backup, at Oklahoma, because he changed plays in the huddle, wanted to play hero ball, doesn't move in the pocket well, is slow as hell when scrambling, and wasn't liked by his teammates. Granted, I didn't follow him at SC, but he's nothing special at actually playing the game...and very doubtful he stopped being a dickhead the last 2 years. He's the only QB to be benched by Lincoln Riley. Odunze has been mocked in top 8 in pretty much every mock I've seen, so his combine only solidified his position, didn't move him up. Maybe flip-flopped him with Nabor, who chose not to work out at all.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 4, 2024 15:57:17 GMT -5
It’s sad that part of the fanbase that thinks basic starter qualities makes a QB a star. Shows you how low we have become as a franchise. Would love to draft a star but I would settle for a decent starter then work on building the team around him. We desperately need to get this QB either in the draft or in FA There’s nothing basic about delivering every Sunday.. This isn’t the ‘50s where merely showing up was enough. You have to do a lot in today’s league just to hang around. High first round picks are now getting curb stomped faster than ever.. Instead of giving the position enough rope to hang the whole franchise.. Teams are cutting bait before they plunge into the icy waters. Don’t look at how we do business.. we are strangling to death trying to break our own necks. The Cardinals jettisoned Josh Rosen before he hit the ground. The 49ers gave up a kings ransom for Trey Lance.. And knew when to kick the court jester out. Know what you have and act fast before it’s too late. Look at our very own Eli Manning. He was the furthest thing from consistency. However, when the chips were down he ante up. When the postseason rolled up.. he became cold blooded. Leave the settling for the settlers.. No one is expecting a star to come down on us and give us light. What we should expect is a player who rises above the ashes and produces when it matters most. yup and shit I'd sign up for another Eli who can get hott and get it done in crunch time always vs a regular season Romo or Dak even. Will be hard to find a consistent good guy so might as well settle for an Eli type................
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 4, 2024 16:00:50 GMT -5
The obvious names seem to be Ramses Barden and Kenny Golladay between the draft and FA. Forgot Darius Slayton & Sterling Shepard in that 6' and under crowd. Geremy Davis was also a big body we drafted late that didnt work out. Rueben Randle was ok I guess. I think the NFL as a whole has been seeing more success from 6' and under WRs recently. Rome actually talks a little about it in his interview stating how this WR class is bigger than normal WRs draft classes. I certainly won't worry about Rome being a failure because Barden and Golladay failed here. We've had plenty of poor short guys as well, we taken so many more of them that there are a lot more successes though. yup shit look at DJ Moore.....
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2024 18:59:38 GMT -5
yup and shit I'd sign up for another Eli who can get hott and get it done in crunch time always vs a regular season Romo or Dak even. Will be hard to find a consistent good guy so might as well settle for an Eli type................ What if we have a guy that sort of looks like Eli and struggles in the regular season but can go 24/35 for 300+ yards, 2 TDs and 0 INTs with a 114 rating in the playoffs?
We should try to get him to the playoffs more lol.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 4, 2024 19:00:11 GMT -5
He is a beast, but something worries me about taller WRs and the NYG. Plax might have been the last one to work for us that was over 6'. Since, its been Nicks, Cruz, Odell, Manningham, Steve Smith, now with Wandale Robinson and Jalin Hyatt (hope they are ballers). Nabers seems to be the better fit for us. I really do like Odunze though too. Plax was the last good WR over 6' that we brought in here though. These other guys have been undrafted rookies, practice squad players and random tall dudes.
I'm good with Nabers or Odunze (or Coleman) but think I'm leaning towards Odunze still. His hanging out after every other player left the field just to try and improve shows his work ethic compared to Nabers choosing not to take part. It's really hard to ignore the LSU WR factory though with Odell, Chase and JJ. Is Nabers the next one?
Glad I don't have to make this decision.
Hakeem Nicks was 6'1.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2024 19:05:50 GMT -5
Plax was the last good WR over 6' that we brought in here though. These other guys have been undrafted rookies, practice squad players and random tall dudes.
I'm good with Nabers or Odunze (or Coleman) but think I'm leaning towards Odunze still. His hanging out after every other player left the field just to try and improve shows his work ethic compared to Nabers choosing not to take part. It's really hard to ignore the LSU WR factory though with Odell, Chase and JJ. Is Nabers the next one?
Glad I don't have to make this decision.
Hakeem Nicks was 6'1. I see him listed as 6' even some places and 6'1" others. Either way I don't think it changes the general conversation.
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Post by Nick6475 on Mar 4, 2024 19:12:54 GMT -5
I see him listed as 6' even some places and 6'1" others. Either way I don't think it changes the general conversation. Probably not. Though if the Giants said they went with Nabers instead of Odunze because of their lack of success drafting WRs over 6' in the past...
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 5, 2024 7:45:39 GMT -5
yup and shit I'd sign up for another Eli who can get hott and get it done in crunch time always vs a regular season Romo or Dak even. Will be hard to find a consistent good guy so might as well settle for an Eli type................ What if we have a guy that sort of looks like Eli and struggles in the regular season but can go 24/35 for 300+ yards, 2 TDs and 0 INTs with a 114 rating in the playoffs?
We should try to get him to the playoffs more lol.
yup and true, gotta get him there............
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