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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 26, 2024 9:13:35 GMT -5
What do you take away from this comment?
“We have really good communication. In every move that we make, we kind of tell him what we’re thinking and the why, and he’s a good sounding board. He’s got a lot of experience. He has let Dabes and I do our job, and we keep him in the loop, and the communication is great. So, he understands what we’re trying to do.”
A) - What else would he say?
B) - Mara forced him to say it?
C) - He's lying! he’s asked a leading question b/c the media and beyond feel Mara and his family have driven this football team into the ground. The firing of coaches, the Eli fiasco, Gettleman, the draft room and even the f’ing stadium is all Mara.
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2024 9:26:45 GMT -5
he’s asked a leading question b/c the media and beyond feel Mara and his family have driven this football team into the ground. The firing of coaches, the Eli fiasco, Gettleman, the draft room and even the f’ing stadium is all Mara.
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
well, 2012 was the 1st year big John’s title included CEO. The aging OL began failing and the DL didn’t have reinforcements. They went Wilson and Randle in Rounds 1 and 2 and I believe Nicks hurt his foot. can’t remember anything else top of my head from 12+ yrs ago.
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Post by shocknaweny on Mar 26, 2024 9:50:24 GMT -5
Also went on to say that he would support Schoen and Daboll if they wanted to draft a QB in the first round. did he speak about the win vs New England? Huge Win for the entire organization !!!
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Post by Danke Schoen on Mar 26, 2024 10:08:55 GMT -5
he’s asked a leading question b/c the media and beyond feel Mara and his family have driven this football team into the ground. The firing of coaches, the Eli fiasco, Gettleman, the draft room and even the f’ing stadium is all Mara. Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012? Shitty roster management.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Mar 26, 2024 10:24:50 GMT -5
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
well, 2012 was the 1st year big John’s title included CEO. The aging OL began failing and the DL didn’t have reinforcements. They went Wilson and Randle in Rounds 1 and 2 and I believe Nicks hurt his foot. can’t remember anything else top of my head from 12+ yrs ago. John's first year as CEO but what year was that for Coughlin, let's not forget he had a hand in the collapse too.
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2024 10:44:24 GMT -5
he’s asked a leading question b/c the media and beyond feel Mara and his family have driven this football team into the ground. The firing of coaches, the Eli fiasco, Gettleman, the draft room and even the f’ing stadium is all Mara.
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
I think I can answer this question. Round 1Evan Engram Eli Apple
Ereck Flowers
Odell Beckham Jr. Justin Pugh David Wilson
Prince Amukamara Jason Pierre-Paul Hakeem Nicks Kenny Phillips Aaron Ross Round 2
Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Landon Collins
Weston Richburg
Johnathan Hankins Rueben Randle
Marvin Austin
Linval Joseph Clint Sintim
Will Beatty
Terrell Thomas
Round 3 Davis Webb
Darian Thompson
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jay Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan
Chad Jones
Ramses Barden
Travis Beckum
Mario Manningham Jay Alford
I used to believe it was ownership. That was a flawed theory. Statistics proved otherwise. 34 picks in the first 3 rounds over JR's 10-year tenure. 22 failed picks (bad picks) 65% failure rate in the first 3 rounds. It is impossible to build a quality team with that many missed picks.
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Merlin
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Post by Merlin on Mar 26, 2024 10:52:33 GMT -5
Giants just can't split the baby here. If they are sticking with Jones than they need to heavily invest in offensive weapons for the first 3 rounds WR WR RB or WR RB WR. If not another offensive lineman for more security.
If they take a QB thus reducing the ability to net a blue chip offensive weapon for Jones. They need to then put all their focus on the 2025 season and setting up the ability to load up the talent for the new QB. Jones & Lock can take all the abuse for 2024 while they sort out the offensive side of the ball for the new QB.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 11:10:53 GMT -5
Hid nick name around these parts is heavy meddle lol. Arn't you glad you got some clarity that helps us see the light through the clouds.
Just to clarify, I wasn't busting ratbastich. I just find it pathetic how the press has run with Mara's comment. It's as if no one has watched Daniel Jones' career and John Mara hired guys to run his team but doesn't have the trust in them to handle the QB situation.
I know. I just don't believe John Mara is the meddler a lot of people think, I believe what he said today he leaves it to the guys he pays. Press will sensationalize every comment made they will make a big story bigger and a single comment the be all end all it's the world we live in today.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 11:26:35 GMT -5
he’s asked a leading question b/c the media and beyond feel Mara and his family have driven this football team into the ground. The firing of coaches, the Eli fiasco, Gettleman, the draft room and even the f’ing stadium is all Mara.
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
My hand is up lol. what collapsed the Giants were the drafts from roughly 2008 maybe 2009 to that date, deterioration of a roster starts with draft that have failed in past years what continued it was even worse drafts from 2012 though 2017. This all resulted from blind loyalty he allowed JR to have a spending spree then made the same mistake with DG who from 2018 did about the same thing as his predecessor, he found some good players but Mara cut the cord at 4 years. Think he needs to give this group a chance to fix what has been years of bad drafts and roster management, all so recover from their own mistakes all GMs even the best make them, playing musical chairs with coaches and GMs is what loser's do. Mara is guilty of not being hands on enough when it's going south, and making the tough decisions like letting a life time employee go or a guy who contributed a lot to their last 2 SB victories. He and his family are not the meddlers everyone says they are they made mistakes yes not letting Reese and TC go together. Hiring ad old stand by in Gettlemen were mistakes. I think he needs to stand by and let Schoen do his job he is gonna make mistakes from time to time and he will better for it.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2024 11:39:05 GMT -5
well, 2012 was the 1st year big John’s title included CEO. The aging OL began failing and the DL didn’t have reinforcements. They went Wilson and Randle in Rounds 1 and 2 and I believe Nicks hurt his foot. can’t remember anything else top of my head from 12+ yrs ago. John's first year as CEO but what year was that for Coughlin, let's not forget he had a hand in the collapse too. how do you know what happened in that draft room?
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 26, 2024 12:49:46 GMT -5
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012? Shitty roster management.
It's amazing to me that a 2X winning GM & HC, with a 2X SB MVP at quarterback (in his absolute prime) could have allowed this team to fall apart.
In their last four seasons together, Reese and Coughlin only managed one winning year, which matches our last four seasons. The only difference is that one playoff game we had in 2022.
Then there's John Mara, who inherited Ernie and Tom. Ernie worked under George Young, so passing the GM torch to Jerry seemed natural, and then to Dave based on his success in taking the Panthers out of cap hell and getting them to a Super Bowl.
John Mara began making moves that he thought were best for the team, but they were really centered around his franchise quarterback. And I believe that played a huge part in our fall. Ben McAdoo was a continuity hire - all about Eli. And Shurmur? John Mara thought he could ride the coattails of success Pat enjoyed with Keenum and the Vikings in 2017, and ignite Eli once again.
Sure, Judge seemed like a logical choice, with his background under Saban and Belichick, but it feels like John was trying to recreate the glory days with Tom Coughlin. The only problem is our team looked more like the Coughlin teams at the end of his career.
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Post by Rangers13 on Mar 26, 2024 12:55:57 GMT -5
Shitty roster management.
It's amazing to me that a 2X winning GM & HC, with a 2X SB MVP at quarterback (in his absolute prime) could have allowed this team to fall apart.
to a fault, I was very disappointed (assuming) Eli never spoke up. Just drifting along year by year until the Giants successfully created Archie Manning’s Saints.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 26, 2024 13:06:36 GMT -5
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
My hand is up lol. what collapsed the Giants were the drafts from roughly 2008 maybe 2009 to that date, deterioration of a roster starts with draft that have failed in past years what continued it was even worse drafts from 2012 though 2017. This all resulted from blind loyalty he allowed JR to have a spending spree then made the same mistake with DG who from 2018 did about the same thing as his predecessor, he found some good players but Mara cut the cord at 4 years. Think he needs to give this group a chance to fix what has been years of bad drafts and roster management, all so recover from their own mistakes all GMs even the best make them, playing musical chairs with coaches and GMs is what loser's do. Mara is guilty of not being hands on enough when it's going south, and making the tough decisions like letting a life time employee go or a guy who contributed a lot to their last 2 SB victories. He and his family are not the meddlers everyone says they are they made mistakes yes not letting Reese and TC go together. Hiring ad old stand by in Gettlemen were mistakes. I think he needs to stand by and let Schoen do his job he is gonna make mistakes from time to time and he will better for it. I agree.
When Mara hired Gettleman/Shurmur he was asked something like "What makes you believe these are the right people to lead the Giants?" John replied, "They both believe fixing our Oline is our top priority."
That tells me John was allowing Reese/McAdoo to run that team and that he was not hearing discussions from them like that.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Mar 26, 2024 13:32:42 GMT -5
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
I think I can answer this question. Round 1Evan Engram Eli Apple
Ereck Flowers
Odell Beckham Jr. Justin Pugh David Wilson
Prince Amukamara Jason Pierre-Paul Hakeem Nicks Kenny Phillips Aaron Ross Round 2
Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Landon Collins
Weston Richburg
Johnathan Hankins Rueben Randle
Marvin Austin
Linval Joseph Clint Sintim
Will Beatty
Terrell Thomas
Round 3 Davis Webb
Darian Thompson
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jay Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan
Chad Jones
Ramses Barden
Travis Beckum
Mario Manningham Jay Alford
I used to believe it was ownership. That was a flawed theory. Statistics proved otherwise. 34 picks in the first 3 rounds over JR's 10-year tenure. 22 failed picks (bad picks) 65% failure rate in the first 3 rounds. It is impossible to build a quality team with that many missed picks. I would argue Engram was a bust of a pick here and Collins was a good player for us.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 13:37:43 GMT -5
My hand is up lol. what collapsed the Giants were the drafts from roughly 2008 maybe 2009 to that date, deterioration of a roster starts with draft that have failed in past years what continued it was even worse drafts from 2012 though 2017. This all resulted from blind loyalty he allowed JR to have a spending spree then made the same mistake with DG who from 2018 did about the same thing as his predecessor, he found some good players but Mara cut the cord at 4 years. Think he needs to give this group a chance to fix what has been years of bad drafts and roster management, all so recover from their own mistakes all GMs even the best make them, playing musical chairs with coaches and GMs is what loser's do. Mara is guilty of not being hands on enough when it's going south, and making the tough decisions like letting a life time employee go or a guy who contributed a lot to their last 2 SB victories. He and his family are not the meddlers everyone says they are they made mistakes yes not letting Reese and TC go together. Hiring ad old stand by in Gettlemen were mistakes. I think he needs to stand by and let Schoen do his job he is gonna make mistakes from time to time and he will better for it. I agree.
When Mara hired Gettleman/Shurmur he was asked something like "What makes you believe these are the right people to lead the Giants?" John replied, "They both believe fixing our Oline is our top priority."
That tells me John was allowing Reese/McAdoo to run that team and that he was not hearing discussions from them like that.
Exactly. It is easy to say they force feed GMs players and how to draft but their is no tangible proof of any of this, the evidence points in the opposite direction he loved OBJ and really did want SQB for life but he let his GMs make these calls as much as it bothered him. What I don't understand is why it is so hard for people to grasp that our GMs have done a bad job from around 2008 -2021 thats a long time and a lot of damage. Jerry Reese was a great story life long Giant worked his way up to the top yes he was the GM when they won a couple trophies but he didn't trade for the QB or draft OL or DL the nucleus that won those trophies or hire the Coach, he added some pieces but when that nucleus faded away so did the winning. Gettlemen came in here talking a big game and failed miserably especially when it came to the OL and drafting a franchise QB I believe it is time to let this new front office with their new system to have some time not just 4 years either.
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Post by Roosevelt on Mar 26, 2024 13:48:48 GMT -5
I agree.
When Mara hired Gettleman/Shurmur he was asked something like "What makes you believe these are the right people to lead the Giants?" John replied, "They both believe fixing our Oline is our top priority."
That tells me John was allowing Reese/McAdoo to run that team and that he was not hearing discussions from them like that.
Exactly. It is easy to say they force feed GMs players and how to draft but their is no tangible proof of any of this, the evidence points in the opposite direction he loved OBJ and really did want SQB for life but he let his GMs make these calls as much as it bothered him. What I don't understand is why it is so hard for people to grasp that our GMs have done a bad job from around 2008 -2021 thats a long time and a lot of damage. Jerry Reese was a great story life long Giant worked his way up to the top yes he was the GM when they won a couple trophies but he didn't trade for the QB or draft OL or DL the nucleus that won those trophies or hire the Coach, he added some pieces but when that nucleus faded away so did the winning. Gettlemen came in here talking a big game and failed miserably especially when it came to the OL and drafting a franchise QB I believe it is time to let this new front office with their new system to have some time not just 4 years either. Exactly how I see it.
I do want to add that if anything, I was angered at the thought of John (and Chris Mara) allowing Eli to get the shit get kicked out of him. And last year was like deja vu of 2013.
But the reality is, that it's not as if our GM's sat back and did nothing. They did bring in Olineman through the draft and FA. They just didn't bring in enough good ones.
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2024 13:48:53 GMT -5
I think I can answer this question. Round 1Evan Engram Eli Apple
Ereck Flowers
Odell Beckham Jr. Justin Pugh David Wilson
Prince Amukamara Jason Pierre-Paul Hakeem Nicks Kenny Phillips Aaron Ross Round 2
Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Landon Collins
Weston Richburg
Johnathan Hankins Rueben Randle
Marvin Austin
Linval Joseph Clint Sintim
Will Beatty
Terrell Thomas
Round 3 Davis Webb
Darian Thompson
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jay Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan
Chad Jones
Ramses Barden
Travis Beckum
Mario Manningham Jay Alford
I used to believe it was ownership. That was a flawed theory. Statistics proved otherwise. 34 picks in the first 3 rounds over JR's 10-year tenure. 22 failed picks (bad picks) 65% failure rate in the first 3 rounds. It is impossible to build a quality team with that many missed picks. I would argue Engram was a bust of a pick here and Collins was a good player for us. Collins had one good season.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 13:49:22 GMT -5
Let me ask you or anyone this. What caused the Giants collapse which began in the second half of 2012?
I think I can answer this question. Round 1Evan Engram Eli Apple
Ereck Flowers
Odell Beckham Jr. Justin Pugh David Wilson
Prince Amukamara Jason Pierre-Paul Hakeem Nicks Kenny Phillips Aaron Ross Round 2
Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Landon Collins
Weston Richburg
Johnathan Hankins Rueben Randle
Marvin Austin
Linval Joseph Clint Sintim
Will Beatty
Terrell Thomas
Round 3 Davis Webb
Darian Thompson
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jay Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan
Chad Jones
Ramses Barden
Travis Beckum
Mario Manningham Jay Alford
I used to believe it was ownership. That was a flawed theory. Statistics proved otherwise. 34 picks in the first 3 rounds over JR's 10-year tenure. 22 failed picks (bad picks) 65% failure rate in the first 3 rounds. It is impossible to build a quality team with that many missed picks. Really when it comes down to it Engram was a bust here also he never justified his draft slot as a Giant he was a huge reach when you look at some of the hits many were good players some for only s few years. really there were probably 4 big time game changers in that group JPP OBJ Nicks and KP who came in with injury issues that ended his career early just not enough in ten years. When you look at that where are the All pro's at OL or pro bowlers I think there are 2 All pro's JPP OBJ thats why also not many difference makers.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 13:54:50 GMT -5
Exactly. It is easy to say they force feed GMs players and how to draft but their is no tangible proof of any of this, the evidence points in the opposite direction he loved OBJ and really did want SQB for life but he let his GMs make these calls as much as it bothered him. What I don't understand is why it is so hard for people to grasp that our GMs have done a bad job from around 2008 -2021 thats a long time and a lot of damage. Jerry Reese was a great story life long Giant worked his way up to the top yes he was the GM when they won a couple trophies but he didn't trade for the QB or draft OL or DL the nucleus that won those trophies or hire the Coach, he added some pieces but when that nucleus faded away so did the winning. Gettlemen came in here talking a big game and failed miserably especially when it came to the OL and drafting a franchise QB I believe it is time to let this new front office with their new system to have some time not just 4 years either. Exactly how I see it.
I do want to add that if anything, I was angered at the thought of John (and Chris Mara) allowing Eli to get the shit get kicked out of him. And last year was like deja vu of 2013.
But the reality is, that it's not as if our GM's sat back and did nothing. They did bring in Olineman through the draft and FA. They just didn't bring in enough good ones.
John is a fan he was on board. Jerry and Dave tried but they failed I think some of it was coaching Chris was out of the picture it is really to bad pretty sure he was highly respected out side the Giants he worked else where first, He might have been able to help or maybe he was out dated by then not sure.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 14:00:06 GMT -5
It's amazing to me that a 2X winning GM & HC, with a 2X SB MVP at quarterback (in his absolute prime) could have allowed this team to fall apart.
to a fault, I was very disappointed (assuming) Eli never spoke up. Just drifting along year by year until the Giants successfully created Archie Manning’s Saints. Eli was always pointing the arrow inwards just his nature guys would run the wrong route and it would turn into a pick six he would put it on himself while the Nicks or Manningham or Cruz would say it was on me. I thought Eli was getting to his breaking point but it never happened.
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2024 14:00:46 GMT -5
I think I can answer this question. Round 1Evan Engram Eli Apple
Ereck Flowers
Odell Beckham Jr. Justin Pugh David Wilson
Prince Amukamara Jason Pierre-Paul Hakeem Nicks Kenny Phillips Aaron Ross Round 2
Dalvin Tomlinson Sterling Shepard Landon Collins
Weston Richburg
Johnathan Hankins Rueben Randle
Marvin Austin
Linval Joseph Clint Sintim
Will Beatty
Terrell Thomas
Round 3 Davis Webb
Darian Thompson
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jay Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan
Chad Jones
Ramses Barden
Travis Beckum
Mario Manningham Jay Alford
I used to believe it was ownership. That was a flawed theory. Statistics proved otherwise. 34 picks in the first 3 rounds over JR's 10-year tenure. 22 failed picks (bad picks) 65% failure rate in the first 3 rounds. It is impossible to build a quality team with that many missed picks. Really when it comes down to it Engram was a bust here also he never justified his draft slot as a Giant he was a huge reach when you look at some of the hits many were good players some for only s few years. really there were probably 4 big time game changers in that group JPP OBJ Nicks and KP who came in with injury issues that ended his career early just not enough in ten years. When you look at that where are the All pro's at OL or pro bowlers I think there are 2 All pro's JPP OBJ thats why also not many difference makers. EE could be considered a poor pick. No matter how it appears.It doesn't change the fact that there were too many bad picks.
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cdngfan
Starter
Posts: 3,757
Member is Online
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Post by cdngfan on Mar 26, 2024 14:01:58 GMT -5
I agree.
When Mara hired Gettleman/Shurmur he was asked something like "What makes you believe these are the right people to lead the Giants?" John replied, "They both believe fixing our Oline is our top priority."
That tells me John was allowing Reese/McAdoo to run that team and that he was not hearing discussions from them like that.
Exactly. It is easy to say they force feed GMs players and how to draft but their is no tangible proof of any of this, the evidence points in the opposite direction he loved OBJ and really did want SQB for life but he let his GMs make these calls as much as it bothered him. What I don't understand is why it is so hard for people to grasp that our GMs have done a bad job from around 2008 -2021 thats a long time and a lot of damage. Jerry Reese was a great story life long Giant worked his way up to the top yes he was the GM when they won a couple trophies but he didn't trade for the QB or draft OL or DL the nucleus that won those trophies or hire the Coach, he added some pieces but when that nucleus faded away so did the winning. Gettlemen came in here talking a big game and failed miserably especially when it came to the OL and drafting a franchise QB I believe it is time to let this new front office with their new system to have some time not just 4 years either. Right there with you. Reese prioritized athletics over other attributes thinking good coaching can make better football players out of superior athletes. Not ridiculous, but didn’t work. He should have also prevented McAdoo from creating Eli-gate. To this day I think John was asked about this move, agreed, and then threw Reese and Ben under the bus when it got really ugly. Didn’t matter, Ben’s not an HC anyway. I actually think Getty as a GM 15 years earlier, before analytics became critical to the job, could have done better. He tried to fix the line, but couldn’t. And looked more reactive than proactive. Some of it was bad luck frankly. Most of these issues look better under JS. We’ve won more games but he’s going to wear that DJ contract like a career-anchor unless he can improve the team. But I think he’s making progress already and I think he needs Dabs to pull off a 22’ in 25’ and he’ll get another 4 years. The wild card is I think John wants continuity. He’s looking for an excuse. JS’ moves look like he’s managing for 25’, as he should frankly. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if he trades next years 1st to move up to take a QB he loves this year and basically red shirts him for most of this year. He can survive a 6 win 24’. He can’t survive a 25’ that looks like that.
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 26, 2024 14:05:23 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I wasn't busting ratbastich. I just find it pathetic how the press has run with Mara's comment. It's as if no one has watched Daniel Jones' career and John Mara hired guys to run his team but doesn't have the trust in them to handle the QB situation.
I know. I just don't believe John Mara is the meddler a lot of people think, I believe what he said today he leaves it to the guys he pays. Press will sensationalize every comment made they will make a big story bigger and a single comment the be all end all it's the world we live in today. Then he has the eye of Hellen Keller for talent.. After giving Tom Coughlin the hard goodbye.. He promoted a doormat for a head coach. As he was bragging to his grandkids.. He fired McAdoo before he hit the ground. He sends Jerry Reese to the witness protection never to be seen or heard of again. As he goes through the charade of an interview process. He hires a reject who still has the keys to the facility. After the McAdoo fiasco he goes in another direction. He hires the quarterback whisperer. A fart in the wind left more of an impact than Shurmur did. Last and most certainly least.. He takes the advice from an old friend and hires Wally Cleaver.. He didn’t even last a New York minute. Before we get him fitted for the golden sombrero.. He was behind the marketing disaster know as, Pepsi Gate.. While players and coaches are added and subtracted. The common denominator stays the same. This eternal darkness of an era where the only glimmer of light is an oncoming train. Is done all under his watch.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Mar 26, 2024 14:12:36 GMT -5
Tipping your hand coming into the draft is something only a fool would do. Put this in the disinformation bucket. Let's apply some deductive reasoning shall we.... Does it make sense for the Giants to tell teams that they are not in the QB market, then instead of getting trade offers, they make the offers to the team picking after us. Even if we didn't want a QB, we have to send the signal that teams will need to trade with us. If we wanted a WR, and we are sending the message that we want a QB, then that;s incredibly wise. The fact we signed Lock and are saying DJ is our starter, that sends a fare different signal to teams, that we don't really need a QB....I don't think they tipped their hat to anything...But if you believe so, then you should be winning this years Mock draft contest it may also mean that there are starters in the 2nd round that Daboll can develop, and still trade back like a Bo Nix.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 14:13:25 GMT -5
Exactly. It is easy to say they force feed GMs players and how to draft but their is no tangible proof of any of this, the evidence points in the opposite direction he loved OBJ and really did want SQB for life but he let his GMs make these calls as much as it bothered him. What I don't understand is why it is so hard for people to grasp that our GMs have done a bad job from around 2008 -2021 thats a long time and a lot of damage. Jerry Reese was a great story life long Giant worked his way up to the top yes he was the GM when they won a couple trophies but he didn't trade for the QB or draft OL or DL the nucleus that won those trophies or hire the Coach, he added some pieces but when that nucleus faded away so did the winning. Gettlemen came in here talking a big game and failed miserably especially when it came to the OL and drafting a franchise QB I believe it is time to let this new front office with their new system to have some time not just 4 years either. Right there with you. Reese prioritized athletics over other attributes thinking good coaching can make better football players out of superior athletes. Not ridiculous, but didn’t work. He should have also prevented McAdoo from creating Eli-gate. To this day I think John was asked about this move, agreed, and then threw Reese and Ben under the bus when it got really ugly. Didn’t matter, Ben’s not an HC anyway. I actually think Getty as a GM 15 years earlier, before analytics became critical to the job, could have done better. He tried to fix the line, but couldn’t. And looked more reactive than proactive. Some of it was bad luck frankly. Most of these issues look better under JS. We’ve won more games but he’s going to wear that DJ contract like a career-anchor unless he can improve the team. But I think he’s making progress already and I think he needs Dabs to pull off a 22’ in 25’ and he’ll get another 4 years. The wild card is I think John wants continuity. He’s looking for an excuse. JS’ moves look like he’s managing for 25’, as he should frankly. Which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if he trades next years 1st to move up to take a QB he loves this year and basically red shirts him for most of this year. He can survive a 6 win 24’. He can’t survive a 25’ that looks like that. Well said couldn't agree more I would be ok with them giving up this years and next years if they have a guy they love and know he will be there the farthest up I think they might be able to go is probably 3 but more likely 4. Schoen seems to be operating with confidence letting the owners favorite walk glad he is doing it his way hope fully they stay healthy winn some games they shouldn't and win all the ones they should that will get them 4 more years.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 14:17:15 GMT -5
I know. I just don't believe John Mara is the meddler a lot of people think, I believe what he said today he leaves it to the guys he pays. Press will sensationalize every comment made they will make a big story bigger and a single comment the be all end all it's the world we live in today. Then he has the eye of Hellen Keller for talent.. After giving Tom Coughlin the hard goodbye.. He promoted a doormat for a head coach. As he was bragging to his grandkids.. He fired McAdoo before he hit the ground. He sends Jerry Reese to the witness protection never to be seen or heard of again. As he goes through the charade of an interview process. He hires a reject who still has the keys to the facility. After the McAdoo fiasco he goes in another direction. He hires the quarterback whisperer. A fart in the wind left more of an impact than Shurmur did. Last and most certainly least.. He takes the advice from an old friend and hires Wally Cleaver.. He didn’t even last a New York minute. Before we get him fitted for the golden sombrero.. He was behind the marketing disaster know as, Pepsi Gate.. While players and coaches are added and subtracted. The common denominator stays the same. This eternal darkness of an era where the only glimmer of light is an oncoming train. Is done all under his watch. He needed to hire a real GM last one this building was Accorsi hopefully Schoen can be that guy.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2024 14:20:59 GMT -5
Really when it comes down to it Engram was a bust here also he never justified his draft slot as a Giant he was a huge reach when you look at some of the hits many were good players some for only s few years. really there were probably 4 big time game changers in that group JPP OBJ Nicks and KP who came in with injury issues that ended his career early just not enough in ten years. When you look at that where are the All pro's at OL or pro bowlers I think there are 2 All pro's JPP OBJ thats why also not many difference makers. EE could be considered a poor pick. No matter how it appears.It doesn't change the fact that there were too many bad picks. Lack of all pro type players has killed this franchise thats an area Schoen needs to pick up the slack
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Post by myronguyton29 on Mar 26, 2024 14:31:47 GMT -5
Tipping your hand coming into the draft is something only a fool would do. Put this in the disinformation bucket. and if he is and we end up drafting one it'll mean he really is a fool..............
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Post by TEM on Mar 26, 2024 14:39:19 GMT -5
EE could be considered a poor pick. No matter how it appears.It doesn't change the fact that there were too many bad picks. Lack of all pro type players has killed this franchise thats an area Schoen needs to pick up the slack At this point. I am not confident he is that guy. I can only wait and see if he changes my perception.
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Merlin
Special Teams
Posts: 358
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Post by Merlin on Mar 26, 2024 14:52:47 GMT -5
My hand is up lol. what collapsed the Giants were the drafts from roughly 2008 maybe 2009 to that date, deterioration of a roster starts with draft that have failed in past years what continued it was even worse drafts from 2012 though 2017. This all resulted from blind loyalty he allowed JR to have a spending spree then made the same mistake with DG who from 2018 did about the same thing as his predecessor, he found some good players but Mara cut the cord at 4 years. Think he needs to give this group a chance to fix what has been years of bad drafts and roster management, all so recover from their own mistakes all GMs even the best make them, playing musical chairs with coaches and GMs is what loser's do. Mara is guilty of not being hands on enough when it's going south, and making the tough decisions like letting a life time employee go or a guy who contributed a lot to their last 2 SB victories. He and his family are not the meddlers everyone says they are they made mistakes yes not letting Reese and TC go together. Hiring ad old stand by in Gettlemen were mistakes. I think he needs to stand by and let Schoen do his job he is gonna make mistakes from time to time and he will better for it. I agree.
When Mara hired Gettleman/Shurmur he was asked something like "What makes you believe these are the right people to lead the Giants?" John replied, "They both believe fixing our Oline is our top priority."
That tells me John was allowing Reese/McAdoo to run that team and that he was not hearing discussions from them like that.
Even more. Eli did his best with blocking tight ends who he would bump to 50 receptions. IE Boss, Ballard, Bennett. Secure trenches, blocking tight ends, strong running game, Eli takes care of the rest off the play action pass. Rather than doing what works for Eli and the success that follows with doing so. Reese went after non blocking TEs like Bob Myers, Larry Donnell, Evan Engram. With misses along the Oline, TEs that don't block, and for a good 5 years no RB. Everything that worked for Eli leading to 2 SBs, they did the opposite. Then blamed it on modernization.
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