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Post by McCherry on Apr 12, 2024 12:22:33 GMT -5
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse by believing our O line will be that much better. I realize you did say “seems” but I don’t and won’t believe it until I see it. Every year for the past decade it “seemed” our O line should be better than the year before and it has always been worse, the same (which is horrendous) or marginally better which is still bad. At some point it should become better. I like the vet additions and the new oline coach which didn't happen last off season so my hope is better then it's been in years. This issue has been over a decade long so I get the wait and see approach so I'm with you but with a small amount of positive about this season. It's not like previous years where we had rookies starting and other marginal vets that we hoped would take it to another level. We had 4 positions of hope on the OL last year. We have more answers than questions this year. It's been a long time since we could say that. My biggest concern is their health. If you told me both tackles would miss the majority of the season again, then I'd expect what we got last year. |
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Post by inthezone on Apr 12, 2024 12:27:29 GMT -5
At some point it should become better. I like the vet additions and the new oline coach which didn't happen last off season so my hope is better then it's been in years. This issue has been over a decade long so I get the wait and see approach so I'm with you but with a small amount of positive about this season. It's not like previous years where we had rookies starting and other marginal vets that we hoped would take it to another level. We had 4 positions of hope on the OL last year. We have more answers than questions this year. It's been a long time since we could say that. My biggest concern is their health. If you told me both tackles would miss the majority of the season again, then I'd expect what we got last year. The injuries are why drafting Alt at 6 is a good move. |
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 12, 2024 12:36:41 GMT -5
All of these "ways" are the same thing and not without mistakes. Hit on more draft picks/FA than your opponents, hope your players stay consistently healthy and have some good luck along the way. Schoen has been average at best on the first part and health/luck is what got them a playoff win in 2022.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 12, 2024 13:14:53 GMT -5
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse by believing our O line will be that much better. I realize you did say “seems” but I don’t and won’t believe it until I see it. Every year for the past decade it “seemed” our O line should be better than the year before and it has always been worse, the same (which is horrendous) or marginally better which is still bad. At some point it should become better. I like the vet additions and the new oline coach which didn't happen last off season so my hope is better then it's been in years. This issue has been over a decade long so I get the wait and see approach so I'm with you but with a small amount of positive about this season. I agree, I’m more excited about the coach than the players but I am marginally optimistic. Just give me average this year and I’ll be happy. |
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Post by vinnie on Apr 12, 2024 13:26:18 GMT -5
At some point it should become better. I like the vet additions and the new oline coach which didn't happen last off season so my hope is better then it's been in years. This issue has been over a decade long so I get the wait and see approach so I'm with you but with a small amount of positive about this season. It's not like previous years where we had rookies starting and other marginal vets that we hoped would take it to another level. We had 4 positions of hope on the OL last year. We have more answers than questions this year. It's been a long time since we could say that. My biggest concern is their health. If you told me both tackles would miss the majority of the season again, then I'd expect what we got last year. Meh..we still have two guys (Neal and JMS) we hope will get better, that’s 2 questions. We also have a guard who is good at pass blocking but sucks at run blocking and was let go by his own team. We seemingly have better depth but, again, I’ve heard it all before. I also heard the same shit about Oma, Solder, Zeitler, etc. And I’ve heard all the excuses, so what will the excuses be this year if they don’t work out? I understand Thomas’ health was a major hit but I’m not convinced Neal isn’t a bust and his injury is just another excuse. Actually, by my definition, unless Neal turns into a Pro Bowler this year he already is a bust for where he was drafted. |
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Post by lt56 on Apr 12, 2024 13:46:49 GMT -5
Coach Kyle Shanahan and Coach Andy Reid are the biggest factor in both of those examples
guys who have a excellent history of working with and developing and getting the most out of their QB's
Not as simple as drafting a talented QB, Offensive Scheme is far more important, Kyle Shanahan for example has a very QB Friendly Scheme one that made Jimmy G look like a Pro Bowl QB. So when the Giants hired Daboll that is what I was expecting that he would bring over and do what he did in Buffalo here and help DJ get better. Also too, Kafka coming over from KC and working under Reid, I think also to they thought maybe he could bring over what he learned Under Reid and help DJ Improve
They have the right Coaches in place to develop a young QB with Daboll, Kafka and even Shea Tierney so it comes down to QB Evaluation and who is the perfect fit for what they want to do. Maybe it is still DJ behind a better line, maybe it is JJ McCarthy or Drake Maye. Kafka had interest as a Head Coach, Tierney has Interest to go be a Offensive Coordinator elsewhere so it is not like this is a bad staff
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Post by McCherry on Apr 12, 2024 13:48:07 GMT -5
It's not like previous years where we had rookies starting and other marginal vets that we hoped would take it to another level. We had 4 positions of hope on the OL last year. We have more answers than questions this year. It's been a long time since we could say that. My biggest concern is their health. If you told me both tackles would miss the majority of the season again, then I'd expect what we got last year. The injuries are why drafting Alt at 6 is a good move. I would stay away from more rookies on the line. If we take Alt then why did we sign Eluemunor? Neal, or someone else making a lot of money would go to the bench. There are to many other needs. I wouldn't address the OL until day 3. |
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Post by inthezone on Apr 12, 2024 14:02:53 GMT -5
The injuries are why drafting Alt at 6 is a good move. I would stay away from more rookies on the line. If we take Alt then why did we sign Eluemunor? Neal, or someone else making a lot of money would go to the bench. There are to many other needs. I wouldn't address the OL until day 3. Fair enough but I will stay with my opinion that he would be a good choice based from the information available. I was real happy about Neal even if his balance was questionable. I figure a person that athletic could fix that issue but so far I'm wrong. |
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 12, 2024 14:08:05 GMT -5
This past Super Bowl showed us the two paths to building a team. 1. The KC Model Do everything you can do to get a great QB and let him overcome any other weaknesses on your team.....AKA Patrick Mahomes. 2. The SF Model Build a team through the draft on both sides of the ball and then bring in a game manager type QB who can get the ball to your playmakers, and minimize mistakes......AKA Brock Purdey. Both can work.....But what should we do? We don't have a great QB nor do we seem to have any real prospects to get one. So I say bring on the "SF Model". Our FO has had a fine off season it seems to me by bringing in solid O linemen. They traded for Brian Burns who is a monster on D. I say draft Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers and keep building our team outside the QB. If they can somehow find a good QB in the draft that would be great. But outside that, build the team and have a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers and minimize mistakes. Patrick Mahomes's don't grow on trees. I may be grasping at straws but I think this FO and coaching staff could pull it off. Am I delusional? 1. The KC model - or, the Eli Manning model prior to that. It doesn't just take a Mahomes to work with that model, just need a QB who can elevate his teammates. the 49er model has little evidence of success when it comes to winning the SB |
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 12, 2024 16:52:54 GMT -5
For thinking it's that simple choice, yes. So do what? Use the 6th pick for the 5th best QB prospect in the draft? I agree with your choice. I would prefer to build the team than overdraft a QB. But there's not just 2 options. They can build the team if there's a QB they think they can get later they can develop. IMO, if there's a player in any position they love at 6, take him. If not, try to trade down for extra picks. The only thing I would hate is trading up hoping for a mahommes. The state of this team and the odds against his success on this team are low. |
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 12, 2024 16:54:08 GMT -5
At some point it should become better. I like the vet additions and the new oline coach which didn't happen last off season so my hope is better then it's been in years. This issue has been over a decade long so I get the wait and see approach so I'm with you but with a small amount of positive about this season. It's not like previous years where we had rookies starting and other marginal vets that we hoped would take it to another level. We had 4 positions of hope on the OL last year. We have more answers than questions this year. It's been a long time since we could say that. My biggest concern is their health. If you told me both tackles would miss the majority of the season again, then I'd expect what we got last year. Health has killed our ol, and team in general for years. Actually starting with Beatty. |
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Post by moecoastie on Apr 12, 2024 18:04:41 GMT -5
KC was in the playoffs since 2012. They had a playoff roster and moved up from the 20s for a QB who sat for a year The Giants have had barely two winning seasons since 2012. The KC way? Nevermind the 49er roster vs this Giants fiasco My thoughts exactly when reading the OP. KC was a pretty damn good team prior to Mahommes. They stumbled upon a HOF QB in a time where they were just a QB away. |
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 12, 2024 18:06:01 GMT -5
KC was in the playoffs since 2012. They had a playoff roster and moved up from the 20s for a QB who sat for a year The Giants have had barely two winning seasons since 2012. The KC way? Nevermind the 49er roster vs this Giants fiasco My thoughts exactly when reading the OP. KC was a pretty damn good team prior to Mahommes. They stumbled upon a HOF QB in a time where they were just a QB away. Yup. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 12, 2024 18:31:36 GMT -5
Just want to remind all the the KC way , there were 50 years between Super Bowls. San Fran hasn't won a Super Bowl Since 1994
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 12, 2024 19:03:58 GMT -5
This past Super Bowl showed us the two paths to building a team. 1. The KC Model Do everything you can do to get a great QB and let him overcome any other weaknesses on your team.....AKA Patrick Mahomes. 2. The SF Model Build a team through the draft on both sides of the ball and then bring in a game manager type QB who can get the ball to your playmakers, and minimize mistakes......AKA Brock Purdey. Both can work.....But what should we do? We don't have a great QB nor do we seem to have any real prospects to get one. So I say bring on the "SF Model". Our FO has had a fine off season it seems to me by bringing in solid O linemen. They traded for Brian Burns who is a monster on D. I say draft Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers and keep building our team outside the QB. If they can somehow find a good QB in the draft that would be great. But outside that, build the team and have a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers and minimize mistakes. Patrick Mahomes's don't grow on trees. I may be grasping at straws but I think this FO and coaching staff could pull it off. Am I delusional? No. I think it makes sense. I believe that the Giants can win with Daniel Jones and some decent teammates. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 12, 2024 19:27:44 GMT -5
the Giants are at plan L at this point since 2012ish Nothing has worked. Year 3 for Schoen and Dabs. They need to totally go for the game manager process. Finding a good to great game manager is still difficult but easier than finding the next Mahomes. The "game manager" is tough description. I have watched enough of SFs game to see that Purdy is more than that. They need to continue to build the team and IMO that is not picking another DJ at 6. Then again I have no idea how to judge a college QB. Judging by how many teams miss on first round QB's, you're not alone. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 12, 2024 19:28:26 GMT -5
Both are very good teams with very good coaches AND players. KC won this year without their best team…but their entire run they’ve had great, game changing players on both sides of the ball. You need the following: 1. Good coaches 2. A few game changing players on each side 3. Very few holes I’m not really sure the Giants have any of those right now.
And luck.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 12, 2024 19:30:59 GMT -5
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse by believing our O line will be that much better. I realize you did say “seems” but I don’t and won’t believe it until I see it. Every year for the past decade it “seemed” our O line should be better than the year before and it has always been worse, the same (which is horrendous) or marginally better which is still bad. What's so insane about this is seeing the inability of our Oline to handle stunts under numerous coaching staffs. At times our players look as if they never seen one. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 12, 2024 19:40:43 GMT -5
So do what? Use the 6th pick for the 5th best QB prospect in the draft? I agree with your choice. I would prefer to build the team than overdraft a QB. But there's not just 2 options. They can build the team if there's a QB they think they can get later they can develop. IMO, if there's a player in any position they love at 6, take him. If not, try to trade down for extra picks. The only thing I would hate is trading up hoping for a mahommes. The state of this team and the odds against his success on this team are low. Something would have to be seriously wrong if the Giants can't find a player they love at 6. |
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robl
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Post by robl on Apr 12, 2024 19:54:15 GMT -5
This past Super Bowl showed us the two paths to building a team. 1. The KC Model Do everything you can do to get a great QB and let him overcome any other weaknesses on your team.....AKA Patrick Mahomes. 2. The SF Model Build a team through the draft on both sides of the ball and then bring in a game manager type QB who can get the ball to your playmakers, and minimize mistakes......AKA Brock Purdey. Both can work.....But what should we do? We don't have a great QB nor do we seem to have any real prospects to get one. So I say bring on the "SF Model". Our FO has had a fine off season it seems to me by bringing in solid O linemen. They traded for Brian Burns who is a monster on D. I say draft Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers and keep building our team outside the QB. If they can somehow find a good QB in the draft that would be great. But outside that, build the team and have a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers and minimize mistakes. Patrick Mahomes's don't grow on trees. I may be grasping at straws but I think this FO and coaching staff could pull it off. Am I delusional? Brock Purdy is a “game manager “? You call someone passing for over 4200 yards and 31 touchdowns a game manager? His QB rating was 113! He was the reason SF made it to the superbowl. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 12, 2024 20:24:01 GMT -5
Both are very good teams with very good coaches AND players. KC won this year without their best team…but their entire run they’ve had great, game changing players on both sides of the ball. You need the following: 1. Good coaches 2. A few game changing players on each side 3. Very few holes I’m not really sure the Giants have any of those right now.
And luck.
And something that some give no credit , "chemistry". Team Chemistry. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 12, 2024 20:28:39 GMT -5
I agree with your choice. I would prefer to build the team than overdraft a QB. But there's not just 2 options. They can build the team if there's a QB they think they can get later they can develop. IMO, if there's a player in any position they love at 6, take him. If not, try to trade down for extra picks. The only thing I would hate is trading up hoping for a mahommes. The state of this team and the odds against his success on this team are low. Something would have to be seriously wrong if the Giants can't find a player they love at 6. The Giants will take who they want, the fans are the ones that will fight over it. |
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Post by moecoastie on Apr 12, 2024 20:31:25 GMT -5
This past Super Bowl showed us the two paths to building a team. 1. The KC Model Do everything you can do to get a great QB and let him overcome any other weaknesses on your team.....AKA Patrick Mahomes. 2. The SF Model Build a team through the draft on both sides of the ball and then bring in a game manager type QB who can get the ball to your playmakers, and minimize mistakes......AKA Brock Purdey. Both can work.....But what should we do? We don't have a great QB nor do we seem to have any real prospects to get one. So I say bring on the "SF Model". Our FO has had a fine off season it seems to me by bringing in solid O linemen. They traded for Brian Burns who is a monster on D. I say draft Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers and keep building our team outside the QB. If they can somehow find a good QB in the draft that would be great. But outside that, build the team and have a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers and minimize mistakes. Patrick Mahomes's don't grow on trees. I may be grasping at straws but I think this FO and coaching staff could pull it off. Am I delusional? Brock Purdy is a “game manager “? You call someone passing for over 4200 yards and 31 touchdowns a game manager? His QB rating was 113! He was the reason SF made it to the superbowl. That dude isn't flashy and is seriously underrated because of it. |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 12, 2024 21:07:38 GMT -5
This past Super Bowl showed us the two paths to building a team. 1. The KC Model Do everything you can do to get a great QB and let him overcome any other weaknesses on your team.....AKA Patrick Mahomes. 2. The SF Model Build a team through the draft on both sides of the ball and then bring in a game manager type QB who can get the ball to your playmakers, and minimize mistakes......AKA Brock Purdey. Both can work.....But what should we do? We don't have a great QB nor do we seem to have any real prospects to get one. So I say bring on the "SF Model". Our FO has had a fine off season it seems to me by bringing in solid O linemen. They traded for Brian Burns who is a monster on D. I say draft Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers and keep building our team outside the QB. If they can somehow find a good QB in the draft that would be great. But outside that, build the team and have a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers and minimize mistakes. Patrick Mahomes's don't grow on trees. I may be grasping at straws but I think this FO and coaching staff could pull it off. Am I delusional? No. I think it makes sense. I believe that ithe Giants can win with Daniel Jones and some decent teammates. I was thinking more Drew Lock. And I don't think he's very good either. But at least every drop back isn't a fire drill with Lock. |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 12, 2024 21:08:16 GMT -5
Something would have to be seriously wrong if the Giants can't find a player they love at 6. The Giants will take who they want, the fans are the ones that will fight over it. Deep. |
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Apr 12, 2024 22:26:02 GMT -5
No. I think it makes sense. I believe that if the Giants can win with Daniel Jones and some decent teammates. I was thinking more Drew Lock. And I don't think he's very good either. But at least every drop back isn't a fire drill with Lock. Phil Simms on a POD cast I saw had great things to say about Lock. He said his play last year was excellent and that his improvement was eye catching. He felt if that continues the Giants will be very happy. Phil also said the prior 2 yrs he flat out sucked. He remarked something is clicking now in him. Lets hope he's right. If Jones plays week one then at least we might have a fail safe in Lock in case Jones can't go a full season of re-injury etc... |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 12, 2024 22:46:18 GMT -5
No. I think it makes sense. I believe that ithe Giants can win with Daniel Jones and some decent teammates. I was thinking more Drew Lock. And I don't think he's very good either. But at least every drop back isn't a fire drill with Lock. Either way, I agree with you. Build a formidable team at key positions and let the chips fall where they may. |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 13, 2024 5:49:21 GMT -5
Something would have to be seriously wrong if the Giants can't find a player they love at 6. The Giants will take who they want, the fans are the ones that will fight over it. That is some high level draft analysis Red |
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Post by shocknaweny on Apr 13, 2024 9:12:33 GMT -5
Could have very easily had Mahommes if Mara and Reese would have listened to Ben McAdoo pounding the table for The Goat
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 13, 2024 18:36:28 GMT -5
Could have very easily had Mahommes if Mara and Reese would have listened to Ben McAdoo pounding the table for The Goat Great call, years later. |
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