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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 22, 2024 10:42:07 GMT -5
I look forward to your explanation of Jones' best season (as a pure passer) being his rookie year with Shurmur...sure he had a lot of turnovers but he had the 5th most passing TDs for a rookie QB EVER. Stroud sure had a great year last year, but even he had 1 less TD than Jones did in their rookie years. Btw this was in 13 games, and he had the same TD% as Herbert 5.2% who had 112 more completions for a total of 31 TDs. Daniel Jones is NOT a west coast QB like the staff is trying to make him be. I would have LOVED to see Jones paired with Gilbride, a play-caller that has the gonads to actually attack a defense and not play scared. Why do we keep blaming Jones and the players? Maybe this coaching staff just isn't "it". Daboll and co regressed heavily in 2023 themselves, looked more like rookies than 2022. Hopefully it was the sophomore slump for the coaching staff and things get fixed because again, they recycled the playbook and the Cowboys knew our plays better than the new faces like Waller, Campbell etc because they WERE calling the SAME formations, SAME concepts, and SAME exact plays for nearly the entire game. They weren't ready and they certainly didn't have the team ready for the year, let alone that game...which was disappointing to say the least. We can get the next Tom Brady this draft and regress because I am NOT convinced this coaching staff is making the team better I look forward to you justifying Jones’ 2022 performance based on the fact that he won a playoff game while talking out the other side of your mouth claiming that Daboll isn’t “it” even though he was the first head coach to win a playoff game for us in the last six coaching staffs. And yet that win gets brushed aside in the context of our quarterback because of how terrible the Vikings were. I'm not pointing that at you, but it's strange how that works for some people.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 22, 2024 10:42:33 GMT -5
I look forward to your explanation of Jones' best season (as a pure passer) being his rookie year with Shurmur...sure he had a lot of turnovers but he had the 5th most passing TDs for a rookie QB EVER. Stroud sure had a great year last year, but even he had 1 less TD than Jones did in their rookie years. Btw this was in 13 games, and he had the same TD% as Herbert 5.2% who had 112 more completions for a total of 31 TDs. Daniel Jones is NOT a west coast QB like the staff is trying to make him be. I would have LOVED to see Jones paired with Gilbride, a play-caller that has the gonads to actually attack a defense and not play scared. Why do we keep blaming Jones and the players? Maybe this coaching staff just isn't "it". Daboll and co regressed heavily in 2023 themselves, looked more like rookies than 2022. Hopefully it was the sophomore slump for the coaching staff and things get fixed because again, they recycled the playbook and the Cowboys knew our plays better than the new faces like Waller, Campbell etc because they WERE calling the SAME formations, SAME concepts, and SAME exact plays for nearly the entire game. They weren't ready and they certainly didn't have the team ready for the year, let alone that game...which was disappointing to say the least. We can get the next Tom Brady this draft and regress because I am NOT convinced this coaching staff is making the team better I look forward to you justifying Jones’ 2022 performance based on the fact that he won a playoff game while talking out the other side of your mouth claiming that Daboll isn’t “it” even though he was the first head coach to win a playoff game for us in the last six coaching staffs. I never bring up 2022, you're confusing me for someone else. Go through all my posts if you like. I always point to his rookie year when he wasn't being told to play safe and then getting in trouble for doing so. Of course he had turnover issues but he was a rookie...I do worry he's broken and don't expect him to become what he should've at this point but I think he still has value due to his experience in the league...Injury history isn't as concerning for me though, his injury history is like Barkley's, more poor luck than injury prone. I still see Jones ceiling as a 35 TD, 4200 yards type player and his value comes from his floor imo, even if he doesn't take a leap 20-25 TDs, 3500-4000 yards isn't unheard of and should be expected at the very least (which btw is basically Jalen Hurts). Let's see.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 22, 2024 10:45:03 GMT -5
I look forward to you justifying Jones’ 2022 performance based on the fact that he won a playoff game while talking out the other side of your mouth claiming that Daboll isn’t “it” even though he was the first head coach to win a playoff game for us in the last six coaching staffs. And yet that win gets brushed aside in the context of our quarterback because of how terrible the Vikings were. I'm not pointing that at you, but it's strange how that works for some people. It is what it is, I don't use 2022 Jones' play for that reason. Although, that game specifically, he made some incredible throws...which also furthers my belief in Jones being a rhythm passer that reaches a different level (ie he becomes borderline top 10 talent) when his confidence is there.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 22, 2024 10:50:41 GMT -5
Years from now some fans will still be talking about Daniel Jones 2022 season. Get over it, it was very average at best. Take a look at the numbers...Passing TDs (15) in 16 games puts Dan Jones in the very bottom. For contrast Mac Jones who is universally considered a bad QB threw 14 TDs in 14 games. Fun fact, Mac Jones also faced the Vikings in 2022--- 382 passing yards and 2 TDs. www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing.htm
I remember when I couldn't get enough football stats. Of course that was about 35 years ago.
And who could ever forget Eli's stats in the '07 Super Bowl?
Ah, good times.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 22, 2024 10:53:04 GMT -5
I look forward to 2025 and Jones’ fourth consecutive “make or break” season for some fans. I find it strange to envision that as Daniel Jones' destiny.
I'll admit that I listen to NFL radio a lot. I enjoy the more serious discussions on football as opposed to the nonsense of a ESPN or Fox Sports. I have not heard a single host or guest on that channel speak down about Daniel Jones like the fans do.
Unfortunately for the Giants and Jones his destiny seems to be that of many first round QBs before him. Doesn’t pan out as a starter for his original team. Finds a spot on another team as a back up, on a one year deal, with a chance to audition for another team as a potential starter. Probably ends up as a journeyman with hopefully a surprising one year resurrection, similar to Geno Smith, and probably goes back to being just another journeyman.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 22, 2024 10:54:29 GMT -5
I look forward to you justifying Jones’ 2022 performance based on the fact that he won a playoff game while talking out the other side of your mouth claiming that Daboll isn’t “it” even though he was the first head coach to win a playoff game for us in the last six coaching staffs. And yet that win gets brushed aside in the context of our quarterback because of how terrible the Vikings were. I'm not pointing that at you, but it's strange how that works for some people. I think it gets brushed aside because if you look at the season as a whole it was below average. Yet it continually gets touted, and clung to, as if it was the 99 Rams and Kurt Warner.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 22, 2024 10:56:15 GMT -5
I look forward to 2025 and Jones’ fourth consecutive “make or break” season for some fans. Glad to hear it. Hope you’re out there rooting for him. Like always, I’m rooting for the Giants. I don’t cling to an individual player like a lot of fans.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 22, 2024 10:58:59 GMT -5
And yet that win gets brushed aside in the context of our quarterback because of how terrible the Vikings were. I'm not pointing that at you, but it's strange how that works for some people. It is what it is, I don't use 2022 Jones' play for that reason. Although, that game specifically, he made some incredible throws...which also furthers my belief in Jones being a rhythm passer that reaches a different level (ie he becomes borderline top 10 talent) when his confidence is there.
I posted the '22 highlight reel to add further perspective to the decision the Giants will be making this week.
I never realized just how objectionable it would be.
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Post by dream8 on Apr 22, 2024 11:01:26 GMT -5
Hard to say whether he will play well this year or not. A lot will depend on the Oline and if they can finally give him a #1 WR. Pretty much a do or die first 6-8 games for Jones. I’m sure Giant fans are rooting for him except, of course, for the usual suspects. I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. But I do think a good chunk of Giants fans are realists who can acknowledge at this point he's probably around the 20th best QB, and understand there's no chance of a being a Super Bowl caliber team with him under center at his current cap number. 2022 represented the ceiling of the level of success a team can have with Jones under center: Barely grinding out an ugly 9 wins whilst not being anywhere close to the top teams (see 3 Eagles losses). We have to aim higher than that
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Post by giants8493 on Apr 22, 2024 11:26:51 GMT -5
he can play but he has a broken neck and a torn ACL
So now a stinger is a broken neck? You're better than that.
I think they are lying about the stinger I suspect structural damage.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 22, 2024 11:35:53 GMT -5
he convinced me in 2022 that he was seeing the game better. Hardly ever looked spooked etc. Yeah the numbers were not great but he "lead" the team in nearly every game. In 2023 his shit himself IMO. After that I feel he is just not going to be a consistently good starting NFL QB. His is also injury prone. Unless he stays healthy and lights its up this season he will be gone in 2025. Thats a tall order for Jones.
Reasonable take. Tall order for sure given his history but it's not as if QB's haven't enjoyed success late or later in their careers.
agreed Rosie. BTW....I would totally dig seeing him light it up this season. I am rooting for him to do that.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 22, 2024 12:20:41 GMT -5
So now a stinger is a broken neck? You're better than that.
I think they are lying about the stinger I suspect structural damage. you do know teams get penalized for lying about injuries right?
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 22, 2024 12:40:53 GMT -5
So now a stinger is a broken neck? You're better than that.
I think they are lying about the stinger I suspect structural damage.
So not only have the Giants been lying but Jones has been lying too according to your suspicion. And the reason for the lies would be to draft a QB with their first pick?
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Post by Roswell on Apr 22, 2024 14:01:10 GMT -5
Hard to say whether he will play well this year or not. A lot will depend on the Oline and if they can finally give him a #1 WR. Pretty much a do or die first 6-8 games for Jones. I’m sure Giant fans are rooting for him except, of course, for the usual suspects. I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. But I do think a good chunk of Giants fans are realists who can acknowledge at this point he's probably around the 20th best QB, and understand there's no chance of a being a Super Bowl caliber team with him under center at his current cap number. 2022 represented the ceiling of the level of success a team can have with Jones under center: Barely grinding out an ugly 9 wins whilst not being anywhere close to the top teams (see 3 Eagles losses). We have to aim higher than that Yep. Absolutely. And it starts with putting a much better team on the field. Unless, of course, you feel that the QB position is the only thing holding them back.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 22, 2024 14:03:52 GMT -5
I think they are lying about the stinger I suspect structural damage.
So not only have the Giants been lying but Jones has been lying too according to your suspicion. And the reason for the lies would be to draft a QB with their first pick?
Heard a rumor the HC likes Jones for linebacker yet the source remains anonymous.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 22, 2024 14:27:31 GMT -5
Hard to say whether he will play well this year or not. A lot will depend on the Oline and if they can finally give him a #1 WR. Pretty much a do or die first 6-8 games for Jones. I’m sure Giant fans are rooting for him except, of course, for the usual suspects. I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. But I do think a good chunk of Giants fans are realists who can acknowledge at this point he's probably around the 20th best QB, and understand there's no chance of a being a Super Bowl caliber team with him under center at his current cap number.
2022 represented the ceiling of the level of success a team can have with Jones under center: Barely grinding out an ugly 9 wins whilst not being anywhere close to the top teams (see 3 Eagles losses). We have to aim higher than that If year one was our high point with Jones, and Schoen and Daboll didn't realize it then we are in deep shit.
So we need to ask ourselves what's next? Are we really going to allow the guys who can't even properly assess the talent on our own team go on to pick a college QB?
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 22, 2024 14:35:56 GMT -5
And yet that win gets brushed aside in the context of our quarterback because of how terrible the Vikings were. I'm not pointing that at you, but it's strange how that works for some people. I think it gets brushed aside because if you look at the season as a whole it was below average. Yet it continually gets touted, and clung to, as if it was the 99 Rams and Kurt Warner. That win gets brushed aside because we saw what the Giants really were the next weekend against the Eagles. The Giants beating the Vikings was as impressive as the Bucs beating the Eagles this year. Stop the BS...the only improvement DJ made, in 2022, was as a runner...the stats back it up.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 22, 2024 15:02:23 GMT -5
Hard to say whether he will play well this year or not. A lot will depend on the Oline and if they can finally give him a #1 WR. Pretty much a do or die first 6-8 games for Jones. I’m sure Giant fans are rooting for him except, of course, for the usual suspects. I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. LOL, seriously? How can you read the anti Jones posts and think anything different.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 22, 2024 15:21:18 GMT -5
I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. But I do think a good chunk of Giants fans are realists who can acknowledge at this point he's probably around the 20th best QB, and understand there's no chance of a being a Super Bowl caliber team with him under center at his current cap number.
2022 represented the ceiling of the level of success a team can have with Jones under center: Barely grinding out an ugly 9 wins whilst not being anywhere close to the top teams (see 3 Eagles losses). We have to aim higher than that If year one was our high point with Jones, and Schoen and Daboll didn't realize it then we are in deep shit.
So we need to ask ourselves what's next? Are we really going to allow the guys who can't even properly assess the talent on our own team go on to pick a college QB?
The contract that Daniel and Schoen agreed to says he was just an OK QB or else he would have gotten franchise money. He getting bridge QB money not long term face of the franchise money.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 22, 2024 16:03:24 GMT -5
I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. LOL, seriously? How can you read the anti Jones posts and think anything different. You’re obviously one of the most sensitive of Jones lovers but no one is rooting against Jones. Saying Jones sucks or not having any faith in him does not, in any way, mean “rooting against.”
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Post by dream8 on Apr 22, 2024 16:24:00 GMT -5
I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. LOL, seriously? How can you read the anti Jones posts and think anything different. I’m not following you at all here. You're saying that if someone has the opinion that Jones isn’t a franchise QB, that means they’re actively rooting against him?
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 22, 2024 16:38:03 GMT -5
I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. LOL, seriously? How can you read the anti Jones posts and think anything different. I hope Jones sucks next year. - rooting against DJ Jones sucks! - stating the obvious
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Post by dream8 on Apr 22, 2024 16:41:47 GMT -5
I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. But I do think a good chunk of Giants fans are realists who can acknowledge at this point he's probably around the 20th best QB, and understand there's no chance of a being a Super Bowl caliber team with him under center at his current cap number.
2022 represented the ceiling of the level of success a team can have with Jones under center: Barely grinding out an ugly 9 wins whilst not being anywhere close to the top teams (see 3 Eagles losses). We have to aim higher than that If year one was our high point with Jones, and Schoen and Daboll didn't realize it then we are in deep shit.
So we need to ask ourselves what's next? Are we really going to allow the guys who can't even properly assess the talent on our own team go on to pick a college QB?
I don’t think the contract was as big of a vote of confidence in Jones as you’re implying. No front office that thinks they have a surefire franchise QB on their hands is putting a 2 year out in the contract in case things go wrong. It was a calculated risk with the hope that they could put more on his plate and get him to another level above 2022 Jones. He wasn't capable. And another season ending injury on top of it. Time to move on.
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 22, 2024 17:01:14 GMT -5
I don't think any actual Giant fans are rooting against Jones. But I do think a good chunk of Giants fans are realists who can acknowledge at this point he's probably around the 20th best QB, and understand there's no chance of a being a Super Bowl caliber team with him under center at his current cap number.
2022 represented the ceiling of the level of success a team can have with Jones under center: Barely grinding out an ugly 9 wins whilst not being anywhere close to the top teams (see 3 Eagles losses). We have to aim higher than that If year one was our high point with Jones, and Schoen and Daboll didn't realize it then we are in deep shit.
So we need to ask ourselves what's next? Are we really going to allow the guys who can't even properly assess the talent on our own team go on to pick a college QB?
Not only draft the next QB, but also trade away future draft picks (possibly top 5 picks) when they might not be here. What could possibly go wrong?
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 22, 2024 17:18:47 GMT -5
LOL, seriously? How can you read the anti Jones posts and think anything different. I’m not following you at all here. You're saying that if someone has the opinion that Jones isn’t a franchise QB, that means they’re actively rooting against him? No I am saying there are posters here who want the Giants to tank so bad they hope Jones gets hurt.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 22, 2024 17:23:42 GMT -5
I’m not following you at all here. You're saying that if someone has the opinion that Jones isn’t a franchise QB, that means they’re actively rooting against him? No I am saying there are posters here who want the Giants to tank so bad they hope Jones gets hurt. Really Red? I don’t recall seeing that, especially when you claim there are more than one. Let’s see those quotes from these “posters”.
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 22, 2024 18:24:17 GMT -5
I’m not following you at all here. You're saying that if someone has the opinion that Jones isn’t a franchise QB, that means they’re actively rooting against him? No I am saying there are posters here who want the Giants to tank so bad they hope Jones gets hurt. Do you just sit around thinking of ways to feel sorry for DJ? A DJ injury could/will cost the team $23 million...no Giant fan is rooting for that.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 22, 2024 18:57:01 GMT -5
No I am saying there are posters here who want the Giants to tank so bad they hope Jones gets hurt. Do you just sit around thinking of ways to feel sorry for DJ? A DJ injury could/will cost the team $23 million...no Giant fan is rooting for that. Well we definitely know he sits around and makes shit up that people never said to try and feel better about his crusade for DJ.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 22, 2024 19:01:08 GMT -5
If year one was our high point with Jones, and Schoen and Daboll didn't realize it then we are in deep shit.
So we need to ask ourselves what's next? Are we really going to allow the guys who can't even properly assess the talent on our own team go on to pick a college QB?
I don’t think the contract was as big of a vote of confidence in Jones as you’re implying. No front office that thinks they have a surefire franchise QB on their hands is putting a 2 year out in the contract in case things go wrong. It was a calculated risk with the hope that they could put more on his plate and get him to another level above 2022 Jones. He wasn't capable. And another season ending injury on top of it. Time to move on. You're certainly entitled to your opinion as our others who don't agree which happens to include former pro QB's as I've pointed out in another thread.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 22, 2024 19:18:26 GMT -5
No I am saying there are posters here who want the Giants to tank so bad they hope Jones gets hurt. Do you just sit around thinking of ways to feel sorry for DJ? A DJ injury could/will cost the team $23 million...no Giant fan is rooting for that. I don't feel sorry for anyone making the money he makes but I will point out the ignorance used to consistently shoot him down, while ignoring the problems with the rest of the team.
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