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Post by TEM on Jun 19, 2018 12:37:31 GMT -5
I do not see the relevance as it relates to the Author's narrative and logic. 10 years ago we won a SB and one more in 2012. So how is any way does a GM the won 2 in that timeframe be The biggest mistake that the franchise made? So what about the GMs from the other 23 teams that did not win in that time frame. Were they not bigger mistakes? The argument that he hired Mcadoo has nothing to do with the writers ridiculous notion that a 2 time Superbowl GM was the Franchises biggest mistake. If having a Gm that can place 2 trophies in the case in a decade is the Giants biggest mistake . I will take that mistake every 10 years until the end of time. I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but my initial post was to show that Reese did have a say in hiring McAdoo. If anything that might be the team's worst decision the last 10 years. I am not a big fan of Reese and I believe he deserved to be let go along with Marc Ross. It seems like he had a bigger pass for constructing 2 SB winning teams who had records of 10-6 and 9-7 respectively. I would say that's TC and Eli putting in work in those 2 magical playoff runs that in reaility had no business winning. Reese got a lot of credit for riding their coattails. The real work Reese put in was post 2012 and his inability to put together a playoff caliber team for several years even with a franchise QB on the roster.What happened from 2012-2016? The team was finally able to make the playoffs in 2016 because Reese had some $$ to spend and mask his inept drafting ability. It works for a year like it did in 2011 but if you don't win a SB, you're just setting the team up for failure down the road. You call it a bigger pass. I call it for what it is a great feat . You can only name a handful of GMs in tha cap era that have won multiples. I am not in any way a Reese apologist. I do apreacheat what he did. I will explain it. He put the the Giants in a position to win both. The roster he constructed had the proper pieces in place and made it possible for both TC and Eli to utilize the talent they had for a winning combanation. The season records in both are irrelevant . The only thing that is, what was put in the case.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 19, 2018 12:44:03 GMT -5
Next decade's biggest mistake...not drafting Eli Manning's successor when given a golden opportunity to do so At least the Giants aren't alone on that one. They can share it with the Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Chargers. How many of them had the #2 pick in the draft?
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 19, 2018 12:48:51 GMT -5
I do not see the relevance as it relates to the Author's narrative and logic. 10 years ago we won a SB and one more in 2012. So how is any way does a GM the won 2 in that timeframe be The biggest mistake that the franchise made? So what about the GMs from the other 23 teams that did not win in that time frame. Were they not bigger mistakes? The argument that he hired Mcadoo has nothing to do with the writers ridiculous notion that a 2 time Superbowl GM was the Franchises biggest mistake. If having a Gm that can place 2 trophies in the case in a decade is the Giants biggest mistake . I will take that mistake every 10 years until the end of time. I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but my initial post was to show that Reese did have a say in hiring McAdoo. If anything that might be the team's worst decision the last 10 years. I am not a big fan of Reese and I believe he deserved to be let go along with Marc Ross. It seems like he had a bigger pass for constructing 2 SB winning teams who had records of 10-6 and 9-7 respectively. I would say that's TC and Eli putting in work in those 2 magical playoff runs that in reaility had no business winning. Reese got a lot of credit for riding their coattails. The real work Reese put in was post 2012 and his inability to put together a playoff caliber team for several years even with a franchise QB on the roster.What happened from 2012-2016? The team was finally able to make the playoffs in 2016 because Reese had some $$ to spend and mask his inept drafting ability. It works for a year like it did in 2011 but if you don't win a SB, you're just setting the team up for failure down the road. JR did NOT hire Ben McAdoo. Ben McAdoo was hired as OC by Tom Coughlin and John Mara made the stupid decision of hiring him as HC. I don't understand how Giants fans, who supposedly understand their team can not know this. John Mara was the sole decision maker when it came to hiring our head coach. You think Jerry Reese liked Ben McAdoo? he was Tom's guy and JR was like Ernie Accorsi...he didn't like Tom at all as a coach and he sure as hell didn't want Tom's hand picked replacement to be our next HC. YOU all did of course.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 19, 2018 12:51:49 GMT -5
At least the Giants aren't alone on that one. They can share it with the Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Chargers. Those teams had "golden" opportunities, for a high percentage pick at a franchise QB? Sure, they could have traded up to grab one of those sure fire franchise QBs just like any other team.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jun 19, 2018 12:53:20 GMT -5
At least the Giants aren't alone on that one. They can share it with the Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Chargers. How many of them had the #2 pick in the draft? Any/all of them could have, last I checked anyone can trade to anywhere they want if they have a glaring need. Like QB.
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Post by believernyg10 on Jun 19, 2018 13:08:33 GMT -5
I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but my initial post was to show that Reese did have a say in hiring McAdoo. If anything that might be the team's worst decision the last 10 years. I am not a big fan of Reese and I believe he deserved to be let go along with Marc Ross. It seems like he had a bigger pass for constructing 2 SB winning teams who had records of 10-6 and 9-7 respectively. I would say that's TC and Eli putting in work in those 2 magical playoff runs that in reaility had no business winning. Reese got a lot of credit for riding their coattails. The real work Reese put in was post 2012 and his inability to put together a playoff caliber team for several years even with a franchise QB on the roster.What happened from 2012-2016? The team was finally able to make the playoffs in 2016 because Reese had some $$ to spend and mask his inept drafting ability. It works for a year like it did in 2011 but if you don't win a SB, you're just setting the team up for failure down the road. JR did NOT hire Ben McAdoo. Ben McAdoo was hired as OC by Tom Coughlin and John Mara made the stupid decision of hiring him as HC. I don't understand how Giants fans, who supposedly understand their team can not know this. John Mara was the sole decision maker when it came to hiring our head coach. You think Jerry Reese liked Ben McAdoo? he was Tom's guy and JR was like Ernie Accorsi...he didn't like Tom at all as a coach and he sure as hell didn't want Tom's hand picked replacement to be our next HC. YOU all did of course. Absolutely 1000% wrong. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo.
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Post by jimmieray on Jun 19, 2018 13:08:36 GMT -5
Those teams had "golden" opportunities, for a high percentage pick at a franchise QB? Sure, they could have traded up to grab one of those sure fire franchise QBs just like any other team. Boy, that would have been some draft, to initially own the #2 pick with all those suitors!
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 19, 2018 13:14:50 GMT -5
Those teams had "golden" opportunities, for a high percentage pick at a franchise QB? Sure, they could have traded up to grab one of those sure fire franchise QBs just like any other team. You DO understand the cost of trading up that far...right? Even the Bills couldn't afford to trade up from 12. They traded away an all pro LT just to move up 10 spots. How would it have been for the Steelers or Pats to trade up?
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 19, 2018 13:16:14 GMT -5
I do not see the relevance as it relates to the Author's narrative and logic. 10 years ago we won a SB and one more in 2012. So how is any way does a GM the won 2 in that timeframe be The biggest mistake that the franchise made? So what about the GMs from the other 23 teams that did not win in that time frame. Were they not bigger mistakes? The argument that he hired Mcadoo has nothing to do with the writers ridiculous notion that a 2 time Superbowl GM was the Franchises biggest mistake. If having a Gm that can place 2 trophies in the case in a decade is the Giants biggest mistake . I will take that mistake every 10 years until the end of time. I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but my initial post was to show that Reese did have a say in hiring McAdoo. If anything that might be the team's worst decision the last 10 years. I am not a big fan of Reese and I believe he deserved to be let go along with Marc Ross. It seems like he had a bigger pass for constructing 2 SB winning teams who had records of 10-6 and 9-7 respectively. I would say that's TC and Eli putting in work in those 2 magical playoff runs that in reaility had no business winning. Reese got a lot of credit for riding their coattails. The real work Reese put in was post 2012 and his inability to put together a playoff caliber team for several years even with a franchise QB on the roster.What happened from 2012-2016? The team was finally able to make the playoffs in 2016 because Reese had some $$ to spend and mask his inept drafting ability. It works for a year like it did in 2011 but if you don't win a SB, you're just setting the team up for failure down the road.
Reese's career certainly didn't end on a positive note, but there's no way I will look back on his tenure and view him as someone who only contributed to our failure.
There are a whole lot of GM's that don't get their name's engraved on a Lombardi, and this man has two.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 19, 2018 13:17:01 GMT -5
JR did NOT hire Ben McAdoo. Ben McAdoo was hired as OC by Tom Coughlin and John Mara made the stupid decision of hiring him as HC. I don't understand how Giants fans, who supposedly understand their team can not know this. John Mara was the sole decision maker when it came to hiring our head coach. You think Jerry Reese liked Ben McAdoo? he was Tom's guy and JR was like Ernie Accorsi...he didn't like Tom at all as a coach and he sure as hell didn't want Tom's hand picked replacement to be our next HC. YOU all did of course. Absolutely 1000% wrong. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo. Repeating the fantasy doen't make it any more true. Is it your view that the GM is the guy that's always picked the HC here? If it is you need to read EA's book. Learn some about your team before you make claims that have no basis in reality except to reaffirm your contempt for one man.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 13:34:01 GMT -5
I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but my initial post was to show that Reese did have a say in hiring McAdoo. If anything that might be the team's worst decision the last 10 years. I am not a big fan of Reese and I believe he deserved to be let go along with Marc Ross. It seems like he had a bigger pass for constructing 2 SB winning teams who had records of 10-6 and 9-7 respectively. I would say that's TC and Eli putting in work in those 2 magical playoff runs that in reaility had no business winning. Reese got a lot of credit for riding their coattails. The real work Reese put in was post 2012 and his inability to put together a playoff caliber team for several years even with a franchise QB on the roster.What happened from 2012-2016? The team was finally able to make the playoffs in 2016 because Reese had some $$ to spend and mask his inept drafting ability. It works for a year like it did in 2011 but if you don't win a SB, you're just setting the team up for failure down the road.
Reese's career certainly didn't end on a positive note, but there's no way I will look back on his tenure and view him as someone who only contributed to our failure.
There are a whole lot of GM's that don't get their name's engraved on a Lombardi, and this man has two.
ok, that is a fair point and a fair view to have of Reese. I just don't share the same vision and believe he was an overrated GM who gets too much credit for assembling a couple of borderline playoff teams during his tenure.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 13:40:16 GMT -5
Absolutely 1000% wrong. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo. Repeating the fantasy doen't make it any more true. Is it your view that the GM is the guy that's always picked the HC here? If it is you need to read EA's book. Learn some about your team before you make claims that have no basis in reality except to reaffirm your contempt for one man. He had a lot of input though and was part of the consensus to hire him. I think the speculation of him not wanting McAdoo came from his non-enthusiastic press conference.
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 19, 2018 13:46:16 GMT -5
Repeating the fantasy doen't make it any more true. Is it your view that the GM is the guy that's always picked the HC here? If it is you need to read EA's book. Learn some about your team before you make claims that have no basis in reality except to reaffirm your contempt for one man. He had a lot of input though and was part of the consensus to hire him. I think the speculation of him not wanting McAdoo came from his non-enthusiastic press conference. Everyone gets input my friend.....but the decision maker is John Mara. Ernie got his input heard on TC in 2004, he was dead set against it. He got hired anyway by Wellington Mara. Everyone gets input on the draft as well (Tom Coughlin had huge input). but JR, and now Gettleman make the final calls on players. The only positions where there is more limited input are the assistant coaches. The Giants like the HC to choose his staff.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 14:29:37 GMT -5
Next decade's biggest mistake...not drafting Eli Manning's successor when given a golden opportunity to do so At least the Giants aren't alone on that one. They can share it with the Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Chargers. Rk |
| Tm | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int | Y/A | Y/C | Rate | 4QC | 1 | Tom Brady | NWE | 385 | 581 | 66.3 | 4,577 | 32 | 8 | 7.9 | 11.9 | 102.8 | 2 | 2 | Philip Rivers
| LAC | 360 | 575 | 62.6 | 4,515 | 28 | 10 | 7.9 | 12.5 | 96.0 | 2 | 4 | Drew Brees | NOR | 386 | 536 | 72.0 | 4,334 | 23 | 8 | 8.1 | 11.2 | 103.9 | 2 | 5 | Ben Roethlisberger | PIT | 360 | 561 | 64.2 | 4,251 | 28 | 14 | 7.6 | 11.8 | 93.4 | 3 | 15 | Eli Manning | NYG | 352 | 571 | 61.6 | 3,468 | 19 | 13 | 6.1 | 9.9 | 80.4 | 0 |
I guess when you still have a Top 5 quarterback you don't worry so much.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 14:37:24 GMT -5
Sure, they could have traded up to grab one of those sure fire franchise QBs just like any other team. You DO understand the cost of trading up that far...right? Even the Bills couldn't afford to trade up from 12. They traded away an all pro LT just to move up 10 spots. How would it have been for the Steelers or Pats to trade up? Yeah, the Eagles had to trade away the farm to get the #2 in '16. It seems to have worked out for them, but...only 'cuz they ended up with a QB that was already in the MVP running in his second season.
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Post by believernyg10 on Jun 19, 2018 14:58:53 GMT -5
Absolutely 1000% wrong. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo. Repeating the fantasy doen't make it any more true. Is it your view that the GM is the guy that's always picked the HC here? If it is you need to read EA's book. Learn some about your team before you make claims that have no basis in reality except to reaffirm your contempt for one man. Reese hired McAdoo. Don't care about what the conditions were in the distant past. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo as NYG Head Coach. McAdoo "We are tied at the hip" Both Reese + McAdoo were fired at the exact same time
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Post by Morehead State on Jun 19, 2018 15:08:49 GMT -5
Repeating the fantasy doen't make it any more true. Is it your view that the GM is the guy that's always picked the HC here? If it is you need to read EA's book. Learn some about your team before you make claims that have no basis in reality except to reaffirm your contempt for one man. Reese hired McAdoo. Don't care about what the conditions were in the distant past. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo as NYG Head Coach. McAdoo "We are tied at the hip" Both Reese + McAdoo were fired at the exact same timeIf you want to believe that I'm fine with it. It is of course pure fantasy. Anyone who understands the Giants knows that you are completely wrong.
It is simply not the way our organization works. But I have no desire to continue to tell you how wrong you are. You clearly want to believe it for whatever reason and when someone has that mindset I have found that there is nothing that can be said to change their minds.
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Post by believernyg10 on Jun 19, 2018 15:24:14 GMT -5
Reese hired McAdoo. Don't care about what the conditions were in the distant past. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo as NYG Head Coach. McAdoo "We are tied at the hip" Both Reese + McAdoo were fired at the exact same timeIf you want to believe that I'm fine with it. It is of course pure fantasy. Anyone who understands the Giants knows that you are completely wrong.
It is simply not the way our organization works. But I have no desire to continue to tell you how wrong you are. You clearly want to believe it for whatever reason and when someone has that mindset I have found that there is nothing that can be said to change their minds.
Nope. You are wrong. I am correct. Reese hired McAdoo. Both were fired together as a package deal. You are wrong on this one. Deal with it.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 19, 2018 15:40:12 GMT -5
At least the Giants aren't alone on that one. They can share it with the Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Chargers. Rk |
| Tm | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int | Y/A | Y/C | Rate | 4QC | 1 | Tom Brady | NWE | 385 | 581 | 66.3 | 4,577 | 32 | 8 | 7.9 | 11.9 | 102.8 | 2 | 2 | Philip Rivers
| LAC | 360 | 575 | 62.6 | 4,515 | 28 | 10 | 7.9 | 12.5 | 96.0 | 2 | 4 | Drew Brees | NOR | 386 | 536 | 72.0 | 4,334 | 23 | 8 | 8.1 | 11.2 | 103.9 | 2 | 5 | Ben Roethlisberger | PIT | 360 | 561 | 64.2 | 4,251 | 28 | 14 | 7.6 | 11.8 | 93.4 | 3 | 15 | Eli Manning | NYG | 352 | 571 | 61.6 | 3,468 | 19 | 13 | 6.1 | 9.9 | 80.4 | 0 |
I guess when you still have a Top 5 quarterback you don't worry so much. Total yards?
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 19, 2018 15:42:27 GMT -5
Nope. You are wrong. I am correct. Reese hired McAdoo. Both were fired together as a package deal. You are wrong on this one. Deal with it. Is this serious?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 16:17:28 GMT -5
Rk |
| Tm | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int | Y/A | Y/C | Rate | 4QC | 1 | Tom Brady | NWE | 385 | 581 | 66.3 | 4,577 | 32 | 8 | 7.9 | 11.9 | 102.8 | 2 | 2 | Philip Rivers
| LAC | 360 | 575 | 62.6 | 4,515 | 28 | 10 | 7.9 | 12.5 | 96.0 | 2 | 4 | Drew Brees | NOR | 386 | 536 | 72.0 | 4,334 | 23 | 8 | 8.1 | 11.2 | 103.9 | 2 | 5 | Ben Roethlisberger | PIT | 360 | 561 | 64.2 | 4,251 | 28 | 14 | 7.6 | 11.8 | 93.4 | 3 | 15 | Eli Manning | NYG | 352 | 571 | 61.6 | 3,468 | 19 | 13 | 6.1 | 9.9 | 80.4 | 0 |
I guess when you still have a Top 5 quarterback you don't worry so much. Total yards? You mean passing and running? I doubt Eli's rushing yards would add much to the total.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 17:21:38 GMT -5
At least the Giants aren't alone on that one. They can share it with the Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Chargers. Rk |
| Tm | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int | Y/A | Y/C | Rate | 4QC | 1 | Tom Brady | NWE | 385 | 581 | 66.3 | 4,577 | 32 | 8 | 7.9 | 11.9 | 102.8 | 2 | 2 | Philip Rivers
| LAC | 360 | 575 | 62.6 | 4,515 | 28 | 10 | 7.9 | 12.5 | 96.0 | 2 | 4 | Drew Brees | NOR | 386 | 536 | 72.0 | 4,334 | 23 | 8 | 8.1 | 11.2 | 103.9 | 2 | 5 | Ben Roethlisberger | PIT | 360 | 561 | 64.2 | 4,251 | 28 | 14 | 7.6 | 11.8 | 93.4 | 3 | 15 | Eli Manning | NYG | 352 | 571 | 61.6 | 3,468 | 19 | 13 | 6.1 | 9.9 | 80.4 | 0 |
I guess when you still have a Top 5 quarterback you don't worry so much. thank goodness McAdoo is gone and has his home up for sale now.
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Post by Speedman on Jun 19, 2018 17:24:37 GMT -5
Reese hired McAdoo. Don't care about what the conditions were in the distant past. Jerry Reese hired Ben McAdoo as NYG Head Coach. McAdoo "We are tied at the hip" Both Reese + McAdoo were fired at the exact same timeIf you want to believe that I'm fine with it. It is of course pure fantasy. Anyone who understands the Giants knows that you are completely wrong.
It is simply not the way our organization works. But I have no desire to continue to tell you how wrong you are. You clearly want to believe it for whatever reason and when someone has that mindset I have found that there is nothing that can be said to change their minds.
Eli hired McAdoo?
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Post by believernyg10 on Jun 19, 2018 18:36:47 GMT -5
Nope. You are wrong. I am correct. Reese hired McAdoo. Both were fired together as a package deal. You are wrong on this one. Deal with it. Is this serious? As a heart attack.
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Jun 19, 2018 18:47:07 GMT -5
I'd say their biggest mistake was firing TC and allowing him to be the fall guy instead of Reese, I do think that's true. To paraphrase Bill Parcells, it's hard to be mad at the cook when you're not letting him shop for any of the groceries. Another purely dumb personnel move was not retaining Martellus Bennett in his prime even if it's not the biggest mistake.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 19, 2018 18:55:09 GMT -5
Well...the Giants have a unique CoC.
GM reports to Mara HC reports to Mara, and not the GM. They are separate and distinct.
Reese may have backed Ben, Eli may have backed Ben, Tish may have backed Ben, Coughlin may have backed Ben - but only one man made the call to actually hire Ben, and that was Mara.
This isn't theory or opinion - this is how the organization runs...period.
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Post by Miked1958 on Jun 19, 2018 18:55:22 GMT -5
I love Tom Coughlin and wish we still had him in the building somehow but there were too many seasons when December rolled by I was thinking "its time for a change". Firing Coughlin after 2015 and ONLY Coughlin was such a big mistake. Just saying Tom was the problem all along and we are going to hire a HC within as well as letting Reese hang around was gross to watch. I'm happy the current regime blew everything the hell up. I always had a feeling that JR got spared when TC was let go because Mara wasn't ready to change HC and GM at the same time. Plus, JR may have convinced him that he never got a chance to hire his own HC and that may have played a role too. But after the debacle of 2017, Mara couldn't justify not blowing things up and getting rid of JR and BM. I loved TC as well and feel Reese should of been fired and TC kept on in some capacity. I think TC is not to far off from another Ring with the Jags. Just hope our new GM & HC can turn this mess around
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Post by believernyg10 on Jun 19, 2018 19:00:35 GMT -5
Well...the Giants have a unique CoC.
GM reports to Mara HC reports to Mara, and not the GM. They are separate and distinct.
Reese may have backed Ben, Eli may have backed Ben, Tish may have backed Ben, Coughlin may have backed Ben - but only one man made the call to actually hire Ben, and that was Mara.
This isn't theory or opinion - this is how the organization runs...period.
McAdoo + Reese = "Tied at the hip" Reese hired McAdoo. Reese and McAdoo were fired together. Stop with the useless semantics.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 19, 2018 20:02:01 GMT -5
Well...the Giants have a unique CoC.
GM reports to Mara HC reports to Mara, and not the GM. They are separate and distinct.
Reese may have backed Ben, Eli may have backed Ben, Tish may have backed Ben, Coughlin may have backed Ben - but only one man made the call to actually hire Ben, and that was Mara.
This isn't theory or opinion - this is how the organization runs...period.
McAdoo + Reese = "Tied at the hip" Reese hired McAdoo. Reese and McAdoo were fired together. Stop with the useless semantics.
He's correct my friend, and you are not. This is not in any way semantics. Here are the facts about the McAdoo hiring.
Mara and Reese interviewed 6 candidates to replace Coughlin. They also wanted to interview Hue Jackson, but he opted to sign with the Browns.
When the Giants found out McAdoo was headed to Philly for a second interview, they accelerated their own 2nd interview with McAdoo. The second interview with McAdoo took place with Mara, Reese, Steve, and John Tisch. They were all apart of the decision making process to hire Ben McAdoo.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 0:37:16 GMT -5
I always had a feeling that JR got spared when TC was let go because Mara wasn't ready to change HC and GM at the same time. Plus, JR may have convinced him that he never got a chance to hire his own HC and that may have played a role too. But after the debacle of 2017, Mara couldn't justify not blowing things up and getting rid of JR and BM. I loved TC as well and feel Reese should of been fired and TC kept on in some capacity. I think TC is not to far off from another Ring with the Jags. Just hope our new GM & HC can turn this mess around I have confidence in Shurmur. Gettleman...eh, not so much. Let's hope Shurmur takes over more of the "grocery shopping" in the near future.
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