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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 3, 2021 8:03:10 GMT -5
Worst GM in the league and worst GM this team has ever had. Period. can't argue you're point either!! never seen anything like it. All these #1 picks on the cheap (Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence and Engram) yet is so against the current and future cap they have keep refinancing . . . 15-36. Wait until all the refinancing next season.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 8:30:29 GMT -5
can't argue you're point either!! never seen anything like it. Ā All these #1 picks on the cheap (Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence and Engram) yet is so against the current and future cap they have keep refinancing . . . 15-36. Ā Wait until all the refinancing next season. Ā Assuming the only outcome is a negative one is hilarious and self-serving. Good morning tho.
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 3, 2021 8:49:38 GMT -5
never seen anything like it. All these #1 picks on the cheap (Jones, Barkley, Thomas, Lawrence and Engram) yet is so against the current and future cap they have keep refinancing . . . 15-36. Wait until all the refinancing next season. Assuming the only outcome is a negative one is hilarious and self-serving. Good morning tho. i picked the Giants to win yet wonāt be climbing a tree to scream Giants. Sry
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 8:57:54 GMT -5
Assuming the only outcome is a negative one is hilarious and self-serving. Good morning tho. i picked the Giants to win yet wonāt be climbing a tree to scream Giants. Ā Sry I was specifically talking about the restructuring of contracts.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 3, 2021 9:02:10 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. 15-36 is perfectly acceptable. Horrible optic no matter how you spin it.. As a side note George Young's 1st 5 years 27-48-1 Simms at that point looking like a bust Granted it was a different era but wonder how that period would look in tbe social media era Isn't George Young in the Hall of Fame?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 9:06:35 GMT -5
Horrible optic no matter how you spin it.. As a side note George Young's 1st 5 years 27-48-1 Simms at that point looking like a bust Granted it was a different era but wonder how that period would look in tbe social media era Isn't George Young in the Hall of Fame? and won executive of the year 5 times.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 3, 2021 9:10:35 GMT -5
Dan Duggan @dduggan21 Giants are restructuring CB James Bradberryās contract, per source. The move will create $2.7M in cap space this year. Giants were down to $563K in space according to the NFLPA database. This is the second time in seven months the Giants have restructured Bradberryās contact.smh Worst GM in the league and worst GM this team has ever had. Period. I think that would be Andy Robustelli
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 3, 2021 9:12:32 GMT -5
Horrible optic no matter how you spin it.. As a side note George Young's 1st 5 years 27-48-1 Simms at that point looking like a bust Granted it was a different era but wonder how that period would look in tbe social media era Isn't George Young in the Hall of Fame? My point being 5gqt he would have been run out of town on these forums and social media had we had this technology in 1983 I'm by no means defending Grampa Gettleman as he was trying to build the team to win in 1983 as opposed to 2020 which is horrible
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 3, 2021 9:23:19 GMT -5
Isn't George Young in the Hall of Fame? My point being 5gqt he would have been run out of town on these forums and social media had we had this technology in 1983 I'm by no means defending Grampa Gettleman as he was trying to build the team to win in 1983 as opposed to 2020 which is horrible I thought you were pointing out that it takes time to turn around a franchise that has had the problems the Giants have had. It takes time like they gave Simms and George Young . I look at it as George Young and Dave Gettleman had to completely rebuild their teams , while GM's like Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese inherit teams with a good nucleus .
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 3, 2021 9:25:41 GMT -5
My point being 5gqt he would have been run out of town on these forums and social media had we had this technology in 1983 I'm by no means defending Grampa Gettleman as he was trying to build the team to win in 1983 as opposed to 2020 which is horrible I thought you were pointing out that it takes time to turn around a franchise that has had the problems the Giants have had. It takes time like they gave Simms and George Young . I look at it as George Young and Dave Gettleman had to completely rebuild their teams , while GM's like Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese inherit teams with a good nucleus . No free agency. No salary cap. George Young had to rebuild with the draft alone. The NFL now makes it much easier to get back to competitiveness these days.
You REALLY have to be inept to go 15-36 these days.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 3, 2021 9:34:15 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. 15-36 is perfectly acceptable. Horrible optic no matter how you spin it.. As a side note George Young's 1st 5 years 27-48-1 Simms at that point looking like a bust Granted it was a different era but wonder how that period would look in tbe social media era Like this one does, Reeses was in reverse had a great first draft won a couple super bowls the first 4 years the last 6 were god awful Giants have always struggled with consistency. Difference is Young and Gettlemen started in the hole little talent not much depth if any, in Gettelmens case cap hell on the horizon. In youngs case a new thing called the Salary cap that he didn't understand or care to understand. Reese started with strong roster and in good cap shape and got to the big games but couldn't maintain. Giants no matter who is GM never could be that perennial play off contender maybe for 4 or 5 years but then more years of bad football thats the cycle for us. In the end a GMs job is to find sustained success when the team hits a a bump in the road make sure they are close enough to get it fixed quick. No GM has done that in the last 40 years here. where it 15 -36 come from Gettlemen is going into his 4 th year is that counting 2017 because he hasn't the GM then. not saying he isn't failing he has 3 full years on the job and 4 games and it doesn't look promising.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 3, 2021 9:41:46 GMT -5
I thought you were pointing out that it takes time to turn around a franchise that has had the problems the Giants have had. It takes time like they gave Simms and George Young . I look at it as George Young and Dave Gettleman had to completely rebuild their teams , while GM's like Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese inherit teams with a good nucleus . No free agency.Ā No salary cap. George Young had to rebuild with the draft alone. The NFL now makes it much easier to get back to competitiveness these days.
You REALLY have to be inept to go 15-36 these days.
Yep And the game changer is only 5 years on a rookie contract for a QB... It took year..what...6 (1984)when Parcells and Erheart said **** it let's air it out and unleashed Simms to the tune of a back then very rare 4K yard passing year to show us ok..he is the guy... While Brady and Eli have been the Outliers teams that win championships have qbs on rookie deals it seems these days ... So while nothing is absolute there is a very good chance that even if Jones is a top qb eventually that we might already have wasted our win window with him.. Misdiagnosis of what this team was in 2018 and neglecting to go full in surrounding a rookie qb with o line and weapons because Grampa Gettleman and Fredo's ancient philosophy is going to ultimately be the obituary for this ers of Giants football if they have to start completely over again,with the added ignomy of possibly watching Jones be a constant winner in a better organization. And that is bottom of barrel franchise level And what is frightening is if Fredo really does call the shots from behind the scenes I see no evidence of anything changing
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 3, 2021 9:58:26 GMT -5
Isn't George Young in the Hall of Fame? My point being 5gqt he would have been run out of town on these forums and social media had we had this technology in 1983 I'm by no means defending Grampa Gettleman as he was trying to build the team to win in 1983 as opposed to 2020 which is horrible All I'm saying for Gettlemen is people are adding years to his tenure he has screwed up yes but 2017 wasn't his baby that was rock bottom. He has had 3 full season and 4 offseasons when he is fired if they can't get on track, the next GM will not have blow this up there is talent, I don't like it when people lump his crap in with the last guys crap. As fans we all have to remember he didn't cause the problem but he was hired to fix it and it seems to me he has not done his job.
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Post by bluebuddha on Oct 3, 2021 10:02:03 GMT -5
No free agency. No salary cap. George Young had to rebuild with the draft alone. The NFL now makes it much easier to get back to competitiveness these days. You REALLY have to be inept to go 15-36 these days.
Yep And the game changer is only 5 years on a rookie contract for a QB... It took year..what...6 (1984)when Parcells and Erheart said **** it let's air it out and unleashed Simms to the tune of a back then very rare 4K yard passing year to show us ok..he is the guy... While Brady and Eli have been the Outliers teams that win championships have qbs on rookie deals it seems these days ... So while nothing is absolute there is a very good chance that even if Jones is a top qb eventually that we might already have wasted our win window with him.. Misdiagnosis of what this team was in 2018 and neglecting to go full in surrounding a rookie qb with o line and weapons because Grampa Gettleman and Fredo's ancient philosophy is going to ultimately be the obituary for this ers of Giants football if they have to start completely over again,with the added ignomy of possibly watching Jones be a constant winner in a better organization. And that is bottom of barrel franchise level And what is frightening is if Fredo really does call the shots from behind the scenes I see no evidence of anything changing [/b][/quote][/b][/quote]Don't think this is true. Since 2010 only 3 QBs have won the Superbowl on thier rookie deal or a low cap percentage ( Nick Foles). Same for the Losing side only 3 . Russ Wilson, Pat Mahomes, Colin Kapernick, Joe Flacco. This is just from a quick check. 2008 and 2009 were Roethlisberger and Eli on their rookie contracts also I believe. If you have stats that prove your theory I would like to see it. This rookie deal QB to championship stat is fallacy.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 3, 2021 10:13:11 GMT -5
Yep And the game changer is only 5 years on a rookie contract for a QB... It took year..what...6 (1984)when Parcells and Erheart said **** it let's air it out and unleashed Simms to the tune of a back then very rare 4K yard passing year to show us ok..he is the guy... While Brady and Eli have been the Outliers teams that win championships have qbs on rookie deals it seems these days ... So while nothing is absolute there is a very good chance that even if Jones is a top qb eventually that we might already have wasted our win window with him.. Misdiagnosis of what this team was in 2018 and neglecting to go full in surrounding a rookie qb with o line and weapons because Grampa Gettleman and Fredo's ancient philosophy is going to ultimately be the obituary for this ers of Giants football if they have to start completely over again,with the added ignomy of possibly watching Jones be a constant winner in a better organization. And that is bottom of barrel franchise level And what is frightening is if Fredo really does call the shots from behind the scenes I see no evidence of anything changing [/b][/quote][/b][/quote]Don't think this is true. Since 2010 only 3 QBs have won the Superbowl on thier rookie deal or a low cap percentage ( Nick Foles). Same for the Losing sideĀ only 3 .Ā Russ Wilson,Ā Pat Mahomes, Colin Kapernick, Joe Flacco.Ā This is just from a quick check. 2008 and 2009 were Roethlisberger and EliĀ on their rookie contracts also I believe. If you have stats that prove your theory I would like to see it. This rookie deal QB to championship stat is fallacy.Ā [/quote] Let's go 2011 (new CBA) Winners 2012-Flacco (last year of rookie deal ) 2013-Wilson 2014-Brady 2015-Peyton (OK another ourleir but see how that team fell apart since ) 2016-Brady 2017 Foles (a back up but Wentz was on a rookie deal ) 2018 Brady 2019 Mahomes 2020 Brady So 4 times Brady 1 time Peyton ane that was a push all tbe chips in on a very young team in spots that hit a cap and qb brick wall Conversely The good vet qbs that didn't win in this period Big Ben Rodgers Ryan Rivers Wilson hasn't won since his extension It's a viable situation
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Post by bluebuddha on Oct 3, 2021 10:25:01 GMT -5
[/b][/quote][/b][/quote]Don't think this is true. Since 2010 only 3 QBs have won the Superbowl on thier rookie deal or a low cap percentage ( Nick Foles). Same for the Losing sideĀ only 3 .Ā Russ Wilson,Ā Pat Mahomes, Colin Kapernick, Joe Flacco.Ā This is just from a quick check. 2008 and 2009 were Roethlisberger and EliĀ on their rookie contracts also I believe. If you have stats that prove your theory I would like to see it. This rookie deal QB to championship stat is fallacy.Ā [/quote] Let's go 2011 (new CBA) Winners 2012-Flacco (last year of rookie deal ) 2013-Wilson 2014-Brady 2015-Peyton (OK another ourleir but see how that team fell apart since ) 2016-Brady 2017 Foles (a back up but Wentz was on a rookie deal ) 2018 Brady 2019 Mahomes 2020 Brady So 4 times Brady 1 time Peyton ane that was a push all tbe chips in on a very young team in spots that hit a cap and qb brick wall Conversely The good vet qbs that didn't win in this period Big Ben Rodgers Ryan Rivers Wilson hasn't won since his extension It's a viable situation [/quote] the whole point is you need a rookie QB so you can spend money Elswhere. The data doesn't hold true either. As most QBs in the Superbowl winning and losing are not on thier rookie deals.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 3, 2021 10:41:07 GMT -5
Giants haven't won since 2011 ,its 2021 and Dave Gettlemen has had three to four years it's not all on him, some that were here before he arrived have to take the blame as well.
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Post by Morehead State on Oct 3, 2021 11:14:00 GMT -5
Giants haven't won since 2011 ,its 2021 and Dave Gettlemen has had three to four years it's not all on him, some that were here before he arrived have to take the blame as well. I count two players from the JR era. This is Dave's team.
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Post by Kruunch on Oct 3, 2021 11:20:06 GMT -5
My point being 5gqt he would have been run out of town on these forums and social media had we had this technology in 1983 I'm by no means defending Grampa Gettleman as he was trying to build the team to win in 1983 as opposed to 2020 which is horrible All I'm saying for Gettlemen is people are adding years to his tenure he has screwed up yes but 2017 wasn't his baby that was rock bottom. He has had 3 full season and 4 offseasons when he is fired if they can't get on track, the next GM will not have blow this up there is talent, I don't like it when people lump his crap in with the last guys crap. As fans we all have to remember he didn't cause the problem but he was hired to fix it and it seems to me he has not done his job. Thereās only so long you can say there is talent, the results say otherwise. And that next GM, will have to soak this roster in Lysol and bleach to clean the stench away. Since the firing of Reese, we have gotten worse. To think, how a team that has had the 2nd overall pick, and 6th, and 4th and 11th. And they still canāt get things right. When they have spent over $200 million dollars in guaranteed money over the past two years, and have nothing to show for it. That takes an epic amount of failure from the general manager. John Mara already jettisoned one head coach, so canāt keep blaming the coaches on this one. As inept as Judge seems to be, he hasnāt been here as long as Gettleman. In a result driven business, there is no time for the what ifās and the excuses. Dave Gettleman for a better word has been an atrocious general manger for the Giants. I donāt want to hear about the late great George Young, he is the gold standard to building a team. I donāt want to hear about Andy Robustelli, that was a different league back then. Or, Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese. All these men are either in the ground, or home watching the games. They have no influence on our roster, or our salary cap. If this team goes into 0- for whatever the next few weeks. They should just fire him, and start the process of looking for his replacement. Prolonging the inevitable, is just a waste of time.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 3, 2021 13:36:10 GMT -5
Giants haven't won since 2011 ,its 2021 and Dave Gettlemen has had three to four years it's not all on him, some that were here before he arrived have to take the blame as well. I count two players from the JR era. This is Dave's team.
Hernandez and.... ?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 3, 2021 13:45:57 GMT -5
All I'm saying for Gettlemen is people are adding years to his tenure he has screwed up yes but 2017 wasn't his baby that was rock bottom. He has had 3 full season and 4 offseasons when he is fired if they can't get on track, the next GM will not have blow this up there is talent, I don't like it when people lump his crap in with the last guys crap. As fans we all have to remember he didn't cause the problem but he was hired to fix it and it seems to me he has not done his job. Thereās only so long you can say there is talent, the results say otherwise. And that next GM, will have to soak this roster in Lysol and bleach to clean the stench away. Since the firing of Reese, we have gotten worse. To think, how a team that has had the 2nd overall pick, and 6th, and 4th and 11th. And they still canāt get things right. When they have spent over $200 million dollars in guaranteed money over the past two years, and have nothing to show for it. That takes an epic amount of failure from the general manager. John Mara already jettisoned one head coach, so canāt keep blaming the coaches on this one. As inept as Judge seems to be, he hasnāt been here as long as Gettleman. In a result driven business, there is no time for the what ifās and the excuses. Dave Gettleman for a better word has been an atrocious general manger for the Giants. I donāt want to hear about the late great George Young, he is the gold standard to building a team. I donāt want to hear about Andy Robustelli, that was a different league back then. Or, Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese. All these men are either in the ground, or home watching the games. They have no influence on our roster, or our salary cap. If this team goes into 0- for whatever the next few weeks. They should just fire him, and start the process of looking for his replacement. Prolonging the inevitable, is just a waste of time. Not really this team is an NFL team 2017 was JR college. Don't worry Kruunch Gettlemen should still be fired.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 3, 2021 18:14:24 GMT -5
Giants haven't won since 2011 ,its 2021 and Dave Gettlemen has had three to four years it's not all on him, some that were here before he arrived have to take the blame as well. I count two players from the JR era. This is Dave's team.
Now it is, who's team was it before he got here? Again they haven't won since 2011 .
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Oct 3, 2021 19:22:46 GMT -5
I count two players from the JR era. This is Dave's team.
Hernandez and.... ? Engram and Shepard
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Oct 4, 2021 7:31:57 GMT -5
Giants have put-together a really good roster. Will just get better with time and next yearās draft when Giants, should be able to improve all positions on defense and offensive line, and running backs. Should be given credit for that. Offensive line is working out and Wilson joining the fold will help.
Hiring Judge questionable (very conservative) but veteran good coaches were not available. But hire may work out if Giants replace Garrett. Know fans starting to forget how he contributed to two previous games.
Said in prior posts, team should win if Garrett doesnāt screw offense up. He did in last two losses, and one can argue in all three losses. First half plays both terrible and predictable. Has small arsenal of plays.
But at least heās passing more, not less. And heās discovered both vertical and the middle downfield.
Randolph so slow.
On defense, Ragland the worse. Hardly ever runs to where the runner is. Defense will improve when our third round pick returns.
But holding teams to 21-points or less should produce lots of wins, with a good OC.
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 4, 2021 8:06:37 GMT -5
Giants have put-together a really good roster. Will just get better with time and next yearās draft when Giants, should be able to improve all positions on defense and offensive line, and running backs. Should be given credit for that. Offensive line is working out and Wilson joining the fold will help. Hiring Judge questionable (very conservative) but veteran good coaches were not available. But hire may work out if Giants replace Garrett. Know fans starting to forget how he contributed to two previous games. Said in prior posts, team should win if Garrett doesnāt screw offense up. He did in last two losses, and one can argue in all three losses. First half plays both terrible and predictable. Has small arsenal of plays. But at least heās passing more, not less. And heās discovered both vertical and the middle downfield. Randolph so slow. On defense, Ragland the worse. Hardly ever runs to where the runner is. Defense will improve when our third round pick returns. But holding teams to 21-points or less should produce lots of wins, with a good OC. Who do you want the Giants to draft to improve the OL, DL and HB positions?
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Oct 4, 2021 8:26:10 GMT -5
I leave drafting to the coaching staff. Just named where thereās a need to confining to upgrade.
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Post by cdngfan on Oct 4, 2021 9:08:59 GMT -5
Based on watching Mara make decisions. If at the end of this season we look like we have a franchise QB and LT, I think Gettleman is safe.
Mara suffers from that āsmarter than everyone in the roomā mentality.
He didnāt fire Coughlin when everyone was screaming at him to do so, and he won two superbowls because of it. Heāll use that same lens to evaluate Gettleman who has the same affliction (thinking heās smarter than everyone in the room).
A textbook case of confirmation bias if there ever was one.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 10, 2021 20:07:06 GMT -5
1-4
16-37
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Post by Rangers13 on Oct 10, 2021 20:25:09 GMT -5
great team which never loses during every offseason though.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 11, 2021 13:26:56 GMT -5
great team which never loses during every offseason though.
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