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Post by lasion2 on Aug 23, 2019 22:41:35 GMT -5
I disagree with designed running plays for QBs in the NFL. I know they can work quite well at times, but I dont think they are worth the risk. Running Qbs and Qbs who can run do not have a long shelf life in the NFL. Wentz for the Eagles won't last too long already been injured last few seasons.. A surprise play or two from Jones might be ok. At least it might give the opposing D pause and take that into account When he runs, and he will (1300 yards and 17 tds in 36 games) he better slide. I’m not saying he is frail or isn’t tough (6’5, 230 to Ryan Connelly at 6’3, 235), but I’ve lived in Philly for 6 years. Wentz was spinning INTO the teeth of the defense in the 2nd quarter of a game they were leading, while firmly in the playoffs. I say “gotta get that kid to slide”. Philly friends say “he’s proving to his teammates that he is tough”. Yikes. A: slide. Remember when Eli used to dive forward to try and get extra yards and kept losing the ball to the turf monster? Haha. Don’t do that either. B: I expect the appropriate amount of RPO’s, and, he’s gonna keep it sometimes. Only makes sense with the talents of Barkley, Shep, Ellison and Engram. DCs have to respect Barkley and will respect DJ when he shoots for 5-7 yards a few times. Seems like an easy way to get 5-12 yards on slants, quick outs from the inside, or straight gives to Barkley if they play the pass.
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Post by Nite on Aug 24, 2019 2:18:38 GMT -5
Running Qbs and Qbs who can run do not have a long shelf life in the NFL. Wentz for the Eagles won't last too long already been injured last few seasons.. A surprise play or two from Jones might be ok. At least it might give the opposing D pause and take that into account When he runs, and he will (1300 yards and 17 tds in 36 games) he better slide. I’m not saying he is frail or isn’t tough (6’5, 230 to Ryan Connelly at 6’3, 235), but I’ve lived in Philly for 6 years. Wentz was spinning INTO the teeth of the defense in the 2nd quarter of a game they were leading, while firmly in the playoffs. I say “gotta get that kid to slide”. Philly friends say “he’s proving to his teammates that he is tough”. Yikes. A: slide. Remember when Eli used to dive forward to try and get extra yards and kept losing the ball to the turf monster? Haha. Don’t do that either. B: I expect the appropriate amount of RPO’s, and, he’s gonna keep it sometimes. Only makes sense with the talents of Barkley, Shep, Ellison and Engram. DCs have to respect Barkley and will respect DJ when he shoots for 5-7 yards a few times. Seems like an easy way to get 5-12 yards on slants, quick outs from the inside, or straight gives to Barkley if they play the pass. Errah sure... Would love to see him make it to the 2nd contract...Once in a while, ok.. part of the normal game plan - no.. Making the right reads, going through progressions, moving around in the pocket to give the receiver enough time to get open is more important
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Post by lasion2 on Aug 24, 2019 6:14:30 GMT -5
Completely agree. I’m not advocating that we run exclusively RPO. Just enough times to have it be part of the repertoire. Keep DCs guessing. Keep defenses honest. And most importantly (other than sliding) have many ways/options to beat teams.
Rodgers and Mahomes-Esque mobility is indeed more important. Agree there too.
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Post by muerte on Aug 24, 2019 6:31:10 GMT -5
It's great that Jones looks as ready as he is. I agree that, that doesn't necessarily mean he should start, but can take the reigns when needed to. Jones numbers are great through 3 pre season games let hope the trend continues.
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Post by lasion2 on Aug 24, 2019 6:49:12 GMT -5
The main point of contention is going to be the fact that he will still struggle, when he does play. He is a rookie. It’s expected.
The group that wants him to play would like to see him take his lumps now, while the defense it out of whack so that he is prepared for next season when the team is more balanced aren’t misguided. It certainly is one of the ways to skin this cat.
I’m open to literally everything.
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redeyejedi
Special Teams
Draftbreakdown.com the poster formerly and still is known as Redeyejedi
Posts: 1,108
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Post by redeyejedi on Aug 24, 2019 8:42:12 GMT -5
Im watching the game now, he is on his 2nd drive, but he hasnt looked that great. I mean, he doesnt look bad, but not amazing. Some off throws, some good ones, lots of check downs short stuff for YAC. 2 drives no points. Just punted. And now the backup Bengals D is in... Also, Peppers got burnt for that Bengals TD like he was Landon Collins. DEfense still looks shakey. No pass rush. Have you seen Josh Allen for the Jaguars? My god. Still think if they wanted Daniel Jones they should of taken Allen and moved back up for Jones.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 24, 2019 9:56:52 GMT -5
Im watching the game now, he is on his 2nd drive, but he hasnt looked that great. I mean, he doesnt look bad, but not amazing. Some off throws, some good ones, lots of check downs short stuff for YAC. 2 drives no points. Just punted. And now the backup Bengals D is in... Also, Peppers got burnt for that Bengals TD like he was Landon Collins. DEfense still looks shakey. No pass rush. Have you seen Josh Allen for the Jaguars? My god. Still think if they wanted Daniel Jones they should of taken Allen and moved back up for Jones. If they wanted Jones, they took him at the right spot. They just better pray Jones is legit. Cant wait on a QB you covet because you think others dont. I wanted Allen 100% there, and was shocked they took DJ, but if he was their guy, he was their guy. Cant wait till 17 or after. And yes, Allen is a monster. I live in the Jags market so I get all their games. He was a freak last game
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 24, 2019 10:06:18 GMT -5
Have you seen Josh Allen for the Jaguars? My god. Still think if they wanted Daniel Jones they should of taken Allen and moved back up for Jones. If they wanted Jones, they took him at the right spot. They just better pray Jones is legit. Cant wait on a QB you covet because you think others dont. I wanted Allen 100% there, and was shocked they took DJ, but if he was their guy, he was their guy. Cant wait till 17 or after. And yes, Allen is a monster. I live in the Jags market so I get all their games. He was a freak last game So it’s only “just preseason” when talking about Jones’ performance?
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Post by Martin on Aug 24, 2019 12:54:43 GMT -5
This game really didnt give me much hope this team is better than last years to be honest. I see improvement almost everywhere. We have 2 quarterbacks looking very comfortable and productive. We have a much improved right side of the OL. We have an upgrade at C.
We have several mid level WR all of whom are better than our #3, 4 and 5 last year.
We have a bunch of talented DBs and Ballentine in particular looks terrific for where we drafted him. Connelly, likewise looks like a great draft value. If he winds up starting, one could say that he beat out some underwhelming competition.....but isn't that what improvement is all about.
Lastly we are operating with out Barkley and Shepherd.
I am encouraged actually but I always am at this point in the season.
With so many seasons under the ruble its hard to make any objective view points but I do understand your enthusiasm. I will wait to comment until 3 regular season games have been played.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 24, 2019 13:30:32 GMT -5
I see improvement almost everywhere. We have 2 quarterbacks looking very comfortable and productive. We have a much improved right side of the OL. We have an upgrade at C.
We have several mid level WR all of whom are better than our #3, 4 and 5 last year.
We have a bunch of talented DBs and Ballentine in particular looks terrific for where we drafted him. Connelly, likewise looks like a great draft value. If he winds up starting, one could say that he beat out some underwhelming competition.....but isn't that what improvement is all about.
Lastly we are operating with out Barkley and Shepherd.
I am encouraged actually but I always am at this point in the season.
With so many seasons under the ruble its hard to make any objective view points but I do understand your enthusiasm. I will wait to comment until 3 regular season games have been played. Yours is a reasonable approach especially considering how bad we have been. I was mostly commenting on the talent level this year which I believe is improved on many fronts. Whether it is improved enough to get us a winning season will, as you suggest, take some time to show itself.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 24, 2019 14:52:18 GMT -5
If they wanted Jones, they took him at the right spot. They just better pray Jones is legit. Cant wait on a QB you covet because you think others dont. I wanted Allen 100% there, and was shocked they took DJ, but if he was their guy, he was their guy. Cant wait till 17 or after. And yes, Allen is a monster. I live in the Jags market so I get all their games. He was a freak last game So it’s only “just preseason” when talking about Jones’ performance? Yes....? Why? I already said he was impressive and im intrigued. He looks better than I expected he would for sure. Great located throws, on time. But it is preseason.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 24, 2019 14:54:26 GMT -5
With so many seasons under the ruble its hard to make any objective view points but I do understand your enthusiasm. I will wait to comment until 3 regular season games have been played. Yours is a reasonable approach especially considering how bad we have been. I was mostly commenting on the talent level this year which I believe is improved on many fronts. Whether it is improved enough to get us a winning season will, as you suggest, take some time to show itself. I just remember how giddy a lot were last year too. New LT, solid looking rookie LG, Engram, Odell, Shep, SQB and Eli. 5-11. We arent good until we are. Thats how I see it.
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
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Post by southerner on Aug 24, 2019 16:50:06 GMT -5
This will be the season in a nut shell, how long will Manning stand in the kids way! At least half the season.......and that is a good thing.
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Post by TCHOF on Aug 24, 2019 21:32:47 GMT -5
So it’s only “just preseason” when talking about Jones’ performance? Yes....? Why? I already said he was impressive and im intrigued. He looks better than I expected he would for sure. Great located throws, on time. But it is preseason. But Allen is a “monster” based on preseason?
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Post by Martin on Aug 24, 2019 21:34:33 GMT -5
Yours is a reasonable approach especially considering how bad we have been. I was mostly commenting on the talent level this year which I believe is improved on many fronts. Whether it is improved enough to get us a winning season will, as you suggest, take some time to show itself. I just remember how giddy a lot were last year too. New LT, solid looking rookie LG, Engram, Odell, Shep, SQB and Eli. 5-11. We arent good until we are. Thats how I see it. I know there is a lot of pieces to the puzzle when fielding a winning NFL team but the Giants haven't had a strong Oline in a very long time. Once that happens the winning will get much better. Its almost impossible to win without a formidable Oline. So basic yet true.....great blocking and tackling. The Giants haven't had it in a while. All the other x's and o's don't mean much.
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Post by Martin on Aug 24, 2019 21:42:36 GMT -5
With so many seasons under the ruble its hard to make any objective view points but I do understand your enthusiasm. I will wait to comment until 3 regular season games have been played. Yours is a reasonable approach especially considering how bad we have been. I was mostly commenting on the talent level this year which I believe is improved on many fronts. Whether it is improved enough to get us a winning season will, as you suggest, take some time to show itself. I agree it seems improved but I hate evaluating teams on paper and preseason. I hope to chat with you on a much improved team by game 4
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 24, 2019 22:18:30 GMT -5
Yes....? Why? I already said he was impressive and im intrigued. He looks better than I expected he would for sure. Great located throws, on time. But it is preseason. But Allen is a “monster” based on preseason? Yes. Allen was a starter going against the 1st team OL and just by seeing how explosive and twitchy he was you can tell he has the skills dominate pass rushers have. DJ has been playing against mostly backups. That's not a knock, he did what he had to and looked great, but I'd put more stock in Josh Allen's play then DJs right now through the preseason. Again, DJ played good though
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 24, 2019 22:20:05 GMT -5
I just remember how giddy a lot were last year too. New LT, solid looking rookie LG, Engram, Odell, Shep, SQB and Eli. 5-11. We arent good until we are. Thats how I see it. I know there is a lot of pieces to the puzzle when fielding a winning NFL team but the Giants haven't had a strong Oline in a very long time. Once that happens the winning will get much better. Its almost impossible to win without a formidable Oline. So basic yet true.....great blocking and tackling. The Giants haven't had it in a while. All the other x's and o's don't mean much. Patriots never have a great OL. Just great coaching. And they always win.
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Post by DandyDon on Aug 24, 2019 23:43:59 GMT -5
I know there is a lot of pieces to the puzzle when fielding a winning NFL team but the Giants haven't had a strong Oline in a very long time. Once that happens the winning will get much better. Its almost impossible to win without a formidable Oline. So basic yet true.....great blocking and tackling. The Giants haven't had it in a while. All the other x's and o's don't mean much. Patriots never have a great OL. Just great coaching. And they always win. Great coaching and an owner who lets his HC pick the team and run the team. I dont think there is any other owner who does that.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Aug 25, 2019 0:41:57 GMT -5
Im watching the game now, he is on his 2nd drive, but he hasnt looked that great. I mean, he doesnt look bad, but not amazing. Some off throws, some good ones, lots of check downs short stuff for YAC. 2 drives no points. Just punted. And now the backup Bengals D is in... Also, Peppers got burnt for that Bengals TD like he was Landon Collins. DEfense still looks shakey. No pass rush. Have you seen Josh Allen for the Jaguars? My god. Still think if they wanted Daniel Jones they should of taken Allen and moved back up for Jones. A good question then is would you prefer Allen and Jones or Jones, Larwence, Baker and whoever else we would've lost to trade from 17 back up in front of Denver? Answer based on what we knew at the time.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
Posts: 1,498
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Post by Eazy E on Aug 25, 2019 10:11:48 GMT -5
The game is about execution. From what i have seen from Jones between the tackles, Jones has what it takes. The kid can flat out play. I do not care about RPO, that is icing on the cake. He is going to make mistakes because of lack of experience. He is willing to take chances. He has been blessed with probably the best Oline he has ever had. His learning curve should start immediaitely. This kid has something special inside. Why wait. Whats the hold up. We are a young football team. I see a potential rookie of the year candidate already.
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Post by TEM on Aug 25, 2019 10:16:09 GMT -5
The game is about execution. From what i have seen from Jones between the tackles, Jones has what it takes. The kid can flat out play. I do not care about RPO, that is icing on the cake. He is going to make mistakes because of lack of experience. He is willing to take chances. He has been blessed with probably the best Oline he has ever had. His learning curve should start immediaitely. This kid has something special inside. Why wait. Whats the hold up. We are a young football team. I see a potential rookie of the year candidate already. He would be the first player to get ROY for holding a clipboard.
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Post by Martin on Aug 25, 2019 10:30:04 GMT -5
I know there is a lot of pieces to the puzzle when fielding a winning NFL team but the Giants haven't had a strong Oline in a very long time. Once that happens the winning will get much better. Its almost impossible to win without a formidable Oline. So basic yet true.....great blocking and tackling. The Giants haven't had it in a while. All the other x's and o's don't mean much. Patriots never have a great OL. Just great coaching. And they always win. Besides them give me another example of other teams that always win without a good oline and bad tackling and blocking. I'm not thrilled with your NE example.
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gumby
Special Teams
Posts: 1,048
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Post by gumby on Aug 25, 2019 11:09:02 GMT -5
Patriots never have a great OL. Just great coaching. And they always win. Besides them give me another example of other teams that always win without a good oline and bad tackling and blocking. I'm not thrilled with your NE example. Steelers. They have a good OL now, but it took them a solid 3-4 years to rebuild it.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 25, 2019 11:38:37 GMT -5
Patriots never have a great OL. Just great coaching. And they always win. Besides them give me another example of other teams that always win without a good oline and bad tackling and blocking. I'm not thrilled with your NE example. Packers and Colts
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Post by McCherry on Aug 25, 2019 11:51:04 GMT -5
But Allen is a “monster” based on preseason? Yes. Allen was a starter going against the 1st team OL and just by seeing how explosive and twitchy he was you can tell he has the skills dominate pass rushers have. DJ has been playing against mostly backups. That's not a knock, he did what he had to and looked great, but I'd put more stock in Josh Allen's play then DJs right now through the preseason. Again, DJ played good though Jones has been a top QB in preseason, Josh Allen doesn't even have his first sack yet. He finally made a few plays for a loss the other night, but had one tackle prior. They say he's improving, but otherwise Allen's had a quiet preseason.
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Post by Martin on Aug 25, 2019 21:20:16 GMT -5
Besides them give me another example of other teams that always win without a good oline and bad tackling and blocking. I'm not thrilled with your NE example. Steelers. They have a good OL now, but it took them a solid 3-4 years to rebuild it. They have been a good tackling team under Tomlin. Its very hard to win with bad tackling and bad blocking. Its just fundamental football.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 25, 2019 21:42:10 GMT -5
Besides them give me another example of other teams that always win without a good oline and bad tackling and blocking. I'm not thrilled with your NE example. Packers and Colts Wow, we are really crapping all over the definition of always win, huh?
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 25, 2019 21:47:44 GMT -5
Patriots never have a great OL. Just great coaching. And they always win. Besides them give me another example of other teams that always win without a good oline and bad tackling and blocking. I'm not thrilled with your NE example. Hasn't the NE OL been ranked in the top 10 for like the past five years?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 26, 2019 5:24:28 GMT -5
Wow, we are really crapping all over the definition of always win, huh? Well technically, no one ALWAYS wins. Recently, Id say teams like the Patriots obviously, and Colts, Packers, Steelers, Saints, Seahawks are all thought of as "winners" more than "losers". And there is a reason to that when you look at the QBs and not the OLines.
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