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Post by SG88 on Aug 11, 2018 12:31:52 GMT -5
Looked like we were blitzing as well no?
Yes, they were. I just think everyone needs to calm down and let the preseason play out. This preseason meltdown by the fans happens every season. "The preseason is never as good or bad as people make it out to be." Bill Parcells
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 11, 2018 12:36:26 GMT -5
Anyone watching the game saw that. The Giants were evaluating talent by running certain plays. The Browns were hell bent on repeating their undefeated pre-season We learned more and accomplished more in the end than the Browns did, even if it is deciding who won't make this roster. Understand me here. It doesn't mean that we are a good team. It simply means that it was clear to me that our coaches used the game as an opportunity to evaluate talent while the Browns didn't seem to do that.....exotic blitzes etc. I would also like to add that you "win" a preseason game whenever you get out of that game without having anyone relevant injured. When OBJ got injured in that preseason game against the Browns last year, it was arguably a season changer and ender for the giants. Great point.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 11, 2018 12:46:51 GMT -5
Anyone watching the game saw that. The Giants were evaluating talent by running certain plays. The Browns were hell bent on repeating their undefeated pre-season We learned more and accomplished more in the end than the Browns did, even if it is deciding who won't make this roster. Understand me here. It doesn't mean that we are a good team. It simply means that it was clear to me that our coaches used the game as an opportunity to evaluate talent while the Browns didn't seem to do that.....exotic blitzes etc. Agree 100%. This is what will happen with the Browns: take all that new talent you have and put all your plays on full display in the preseason, then when regular season comes, everyone will already know how to game plan against you, and you can go 0-16 again. Sorry, I mean 1-15 if everyone stays healthy in preseason.
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Jaydub
Special Teams
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Post by Jaydub on Aug 11, 2018 15:56:16 GMT -5
Its usually pretty obvious when a team appears to be putting in a ton of effort to win a meaningless game. It did look like the Browns were doing this at times, but I can't help but wonder if maybe the Giants just made it look that way by playing badly. I'm still not at all sold on this Giants team winning more than 6-7 games because of the roster still being full of holes, and paper thin in a few areas.
But anyway, to answer your question, a good way to tell if a team has game planned is to watch the trenches mostly. If you see a lot of shifting, or a lot of overloading/blitzing, it's a good bet that they've planned it out.
I agree. I’d be happy if the Giants were better than 6-10 but I certainly don’t expect it. This team has zero depth and there will be injuries, I don’t understand some of the rampant optimism given how thin this team is with talent in places. It took years of incompetence to get here, why would anyone believe it will be fixed in one off season? It’s pretty mind boggling. I get the need for optimism, and more power to anyone who believes that this team is going to do something great this season, but when you take off the rose colored glasses and look at the roster, the numbers just dont add up. The secondary alone is very likely going to lose a handful of games, and that’s before any injuries ever happen. They are so thin back there, and so devoid of talent, that it’s almost impossible to imagine them not getting completely lit up by any kind of prolific passing attack. Jenkins is only one guy, and frankly, the only one worth a damn on that unit. I wont even get into the rest of the roster holes, because anyone who is realistic about this team already knows about them.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 11, 2018 16:04:21 GMT -5
I agree. I’d be happy if the Giants were better than 6-10 but I certainly don’t expect it. This team has zero depth and there will be injuries, I don’t understand some of the rampant optimism given how thin this team is with talent in places. It took years of incompetence to get here, why would anyone believe it will be fixed in one off season? It’s pretty mind boggling. I get the need for optimism, and more power to anyone who believes that this team is going to do something great this season, but when you take off the rose colored glasses and look at the roster, the numbers just dont add up. The secondary alone is very likely going to lose a handful of games, and that’s before any injuries ever happen. They are so thin back there, and so devoid of talent, that it’s almost impossible to imagine them not getting completely lit up by any kind of prolific passing attack. Jenkins is only one guy, and frankly, the only one worth a damn on that unit. I wont even get into the rest of the roster holes, because anyone who is realistic about this team already knows about them. We haven’t had solid trenches on either side of the ball in what feels like a decade. When we fix that, I’ll start thinking playoffs.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 11, 2018 17:46:55 GMT -5
I have watched the game twice our receivers are open webb was way offf the protection was decent and the run game from the ones through to the threes was going good think they are going to be ok they are learning each other still, the secondary is a big worry thompson was so late coming over on the first Njoku TD it was pathetic no linebacker is covering him one on one, safety play will be hugh in our division lot of good TEs the backers won't be able to keep up with these guys Engrem is faster then OBJ just one example glad he's on our team,
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Aug 11, 2018 19:23:17 GMT -5
Anyone watching the game saw that. The Giants were evaluating talent by running certain plays. The Browns were hell bent on repeating their undefeated pre-season We learned more and accomplished more in the end than the Browns did, even if it is deciding who won't make this roster. Understand me here. It doesn't mean that we are a good team. It simply means that it was clear to me that our coaches used the game as an opportunity to evaluate talent while the Browns didn't seem to do that.....exotic blitzes etc. Completely agree with this! It also turned out a way to get Webb to overcome nerves of starting as #2.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 11, 2018 19:26:30 GMT -5
didn’t think any team actually “played to win” in preseason.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 12, 2018 6:39:00 GMT -5
I have watched the game twice our receivers are open webb was way offf the protection was decent and the run game from the ones through to the threes was going good think they are going to be ok they are learning each other still, the secondary is a big worry thompson was so late coming over on the first Njoku TD it was pathetic no linebacker is covering him one on one, safety play will be hugh in our division lot of good TEs the backers won't be able to keep up with these guys Engrem is faster then OBJ just one example glad he's on our team, Agreed. Really the secondary is the glaring question mark right now. Of course, let's see who's on the final 53, hopefully there are some cuts the Giants can pick up, because really Darian Thompson is worthless.
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 12, 2018 7:52:38 GMT -5
I have watched the game twice our receivers are open webb was way offf the protection was decent and the run game from the ones through to the threes was going good think they are going to be ok they are learning each other still, the secondary is a big worry thompson was so late coming over on the first Njoku TD it was pathetic no linebacker is covering him one on one, safety play will be hugh in our division lot of good TEs the backers won't be able to keep up with these guys Engrem is faster then OBJ just one example glad he's on our team, Agreed. Really the secondary is the glaring question mark right now. Of course, let's see who's on the final 53, hopefully there are some cuts the Giants can pick up, because really Darian Thompson is worthless. definitely something to keep watch on. Secondary was one of the big holes going into the preseason. Unfortunately in this game, some of the significant depth was on the bench with injuries, and it showed. Lets see if things improve if those guys heal up, none of the injuries were supposed to be serious.
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Post by nick030567 on Aug 12, 2018 8:22:16 GMT -5
Anyone watching the game saw that. The Giants were evaluating talent by running certain plays. The Browns were hell bent on repeating their undefeated pre-season We learned more and accomplished more in the end than the Browns did, even if it is deciding who won't make this roster. Understand me here. It doesn't mean that we are a good team. It simply means that it was clear to me that our coaches used the game as an opportunity to evaluate talent while the Browns didn't seem to do that.....exotic blitzes etc. I was thinking that the Browns were undefeated last preseason when everyone came on here overreacting about how bad everyone played. Shows just how important it is when they followed it up by not winning a single game.
Likewise it's just not smart to show your playbook in preseason. A little here and there is fine, but it should be about evaluating players, not winning the game.
People have to realize that the offense was being vanilla (think McAdoo, but probably not even that vanilla) and the defense was playing Fewell ball (very vanilla, maybe a blitz here or there but nothing exotic) yet still showed signs of becoming a really good defense. Nice pass rush, and great against the run.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 12, 2018 8:26:18 GMT -5
Anyone watching the game saw that. The Giants were evaluating talent by running certain plays. The Browns were hell bent on repeating their undefeated pre-season We learned more and accomplished more in the end than the Browns did, even if it is deciding who won't make this roster. Understand me here. It doesn't mean that we are a good team. It simply means that it was clear to me that our coaches used the game as an opportunity to evaluate talent while the Browns didn't seem to do that.....exotic blitzes etc. I was thinking that the Browns were undefeated last preseason when everyone came on here overreacting about how bad everyone played. Shows just how important it is when they followed it up by not winning a single game.
Likewise it's just not smart to show your playbook in preseason. A little here and there is fine, but it should be about evaluating players, not winning the game.
People have to realize that the offense was being vanilla (think McAdoo, but probably not even that vanilla) and the defense was playing Fewell ball (very vanilla, maybe a blitz here or there but nothing exotic) yet still showed signs of becoming a really good defense. Nice pass rush, and great against the run.
People should realize that there was no OBJ and 4 or 5 touches by Barkley. I would suggest that we can draw NO conclusions from this game.....observations yes but conclusions....no imo. The only positive/objective thing that happened was there were no injuries to speak of.
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Post by nick030567 on Aug 12, 2018 8:32:56 GMT -5
I was thinking that the Browns were undefeated last preseason when everyone came on here overreacting about how bad everyone played. Shows just how important it is when they followed it up by not winning a single game.
Likewise it's just not smart to show your playbook in preseason. A little here and there is fine, but it should be about evaluating players, not winning the game.
People have to realize that the offense was being vanilla (think McAdoo, but probably not even that vanilla) and the defense was playing Fewell ball (very vanilla, maybe a blitz here or there but nothing exotic) yet still showed signs of becoming a really good defense. Nice pass rush, and great against the run.
People should realize that there was no OBJ and 4 or 5 touches by Barkley. I would suggest that we can draw NO conclusions from this game.....observations yes but conclusions....no imo. The only positive/objective thing that happened was there were no injuries to speak of. I Agree
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Jaydub
Special Teams
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Post by Jaydub on Aug 12, 2018 8:53:12 GMT -5
Anyone watching the game saw that. The Giants were evaluating talent by running certain plays. The Browns were hell bent on repeating their undefeated pre-season We learned more and accomplished more in the end than the Browns did, even if it is deciding who won't make this roster. Understand me here. It doesn't mean that we are a good team. It simply means that it was clear to me that our coaches used the game as an opportunity to evaluate talent while the Browns didn't seem to do that.....exotic blitzes etc. I was thinking that the Browns were undefeated last preseason when everyone came on here overreacting about how bad everyone played. Shows just how important it is when they followed it up by not winning a single game.
Likewise it's just not smart to show your playbook in preseason. A little here and there is fine, but it should be about evaluating players, not winning the game.
People have to realize that the offense was being vanilla (think McAdoo, but probably not even that vanilla) and the defense was playing Fewell ball (very vanilla, maybe a blitz here or there but nothing exotic) yet still showed signs of becoming a really good defense. Nice pass rush, and great against the run.
Those are fair points, but at the same time, there are certain things that should be apparent to anyone paying attention that have nothing to do with winning these games. I didn't see anyone overreact to the final score. Speaking for myself, what I saw from the offense, and the OL in particular, was more of the same that we've been subjected to for the last several years. They were once again getting pushed backwards and knocked off the ball quite often. It doesn't matter if the game was *meaningless*, those kinds of things can not be fixed. Either you can hold your block in one on one situations, or you cant. It was one game, and they'll need time to gel together, of course, but that is something to keep a close eye on. Even in a vanilla situation, an offense should still show signs of being able to move the football and keep the chains moving, and that wasn't happening very often on Thursday night.
*Its only pre-season, calm down* doesn't apply in every situation.
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BigBlue58
Special Teams
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Post by BigBlue58 on Aug 12, 2018 9:06:54 GMT -5
Wow.....is this thread actually intended to give people a “safe space” with which to rationalize that preseason loss? Not to be the fly in your linament, but that play that Jenkins got beat on.....was just a “basic” play action pass!... The two sacks of Eli were from 2 missed blocks! Or is the simple act of picking up a blitz now considered a “bag of tricks” play?
[br
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Aug 12, 2018 9:28:23 GMT -5
If preseason game 1 gave me any legit pause, it is that the overhyped rookie on this team is Hernandez. He appeared to get manhandled by an average football player. You're not at UTEP anymore kid.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 9:35:11 GMT -5
This is somewhat comforting and would have been welcomed news last night. Too bad Carl Banks made no mention of this.
"One random thought from last night. You can always tell which teams have game planned just a bit for preseason game 1.. Interesting. If the Giants' execution was so mediocre because the Browns game planned just a bit then I'm even more at unease than I was when watching the game.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Aug 12, 2018 9:38:44 GMT -5
I have watched the game twice our receivers are open webb was way offf the protection was decent and the run game from the ones through to the threes was going good think they are going to be ok they are learning each other still, the secondary is a big worry thompson was so late coming over on the first Njoku TD it was pathetic no linebacker is covering him one on one, safety play will be hugh in our division lot of good TEs the backers won't be able to keep up with these guys Engrem is faster then OBJ just one example glad he's on our team, Agreed. Really the secondary is the glaring question mark right now. Of course, let's see who's on the final 53, hopefully there are some cuts the Giants can pick up, because really Darian Thompson is worthless. yea he seems slow he seems to always be way out of position really late
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Post by bringsimmsback on Aug 12, 2018 11:42:54 GMT -5
I was thinking that the Browns were undefeated last preseason when everyone came on here overreacting about how bad everyone played. Shows just how important it is when they followed it up by not winning a single game.
Likewise it's just not smart to show your playbook in preseason. A little here and there is fine, but it should be about evaluating players, not winning the game.
People have to realize that the offense was being vanilla (think McAdoo, but probably not even that vanilla) and the defense was playing Fewell ball (very vanilla, maybe a blitz here or there but nothing exotic) yet still showed signs of becoming a really good defense. Nice pass rush, and great against the run.
Those are fair points, but at the same time, there are certain things that should be apparent to anyone paying attention that have nothing to do with winning these games. I didn't see anyone overreact to the final score. Speaking for myself, what I saw from the offense, and the OL in particular, was more of the same that we've been subjected to for the last several years. They were once again getting pushed backwards and knocked off the ball quite often. It doesn't matter if the game was *meaningless*, those kinds of things can not be fixed. Either you can hold your block in one on one situations, or you cant. It was one game, and they'll need time to gel together, of course, but that is something to keep a close eye on. Even in a vanilla situation, an offense should still show signs of being able to move the football and keep the chains moving, and that wasn't happening very often on Thursday night.
*Its only pre-season, calm down* doesn't apply in every situation.
I don't know... did the line really seem that bad? Not to me. Maybe I have lower expectations? I'm just hoping for them to get to average this year. IMHO, if they manage that, they should be a top 10 offense. If they aren't with average line play, then either Barkley is a bust or Eli is done. What I saw looked better than last year which was all I was hoping for at this point.
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Post by Parademon1 on Aug 12, 2018 12:17:43 GMT -5
Falcons got shut out, their O sucks!
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Jaydub
Special Teams
Posts: 595
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Post by Jaydub on Aug 12, 2018 13:00:34 GMT -5
Those are fair points, but at the same time, there are certain things that should be apparent to anyone paying attention that have nothing to do with winning these games. I didn't see anyone overreact to the final score. Speaking for myself, what I saw from the offense, and the OL in particular, was more of the same that we've been subjected to for the last several years. They were once again getting pushed backwards and knocked off the ball quite often. It doesn't matter if the game was *meaningless*, those kinds of things can not be fixed. Either you can hold your block in one on one situations, or you cant. It was one game, and they'll need time to gel together, of course, but that is something to keep a close eye on. Even in a vanilla situation, an offense should still show signs of being able to move the football and keep the chains moving, and that wasn't happening very often on Thursday night.
*Its only pre-season, calm down* doesn't apply in every situation.
I don't know... did the line really seem that bad? Not to me. Maybe I have lower expectations? I'm just hoping for them to get to average this year. IMHO, if they manage that, they should be a top 10 offense. If they aren't with average line play, then either Barkley is a bust or Eli is done. What I saw looked better than last year which was all I was hoping for at this point. Sure, they looked improved from last year, but that isn't exactly a big achievement, considering how terrible they've been. I have no expectations, I just couldn't help but notice the same bad tendencies on full display. Even in a basic offense, they should still show at least some capability of moving the ball consistently, and they didn't. Again. I just find it hard to not be somewhat concerned
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Post by Martin on Aug 12, 2018 16:25:04 GMT -5
I don't know... did the line really seem that bad? Not to me. Maybe I have lower expectations? I'm just hoping for them to get to average this year. IMHO, if they manage that, they should be a top 10 offense. If they aren't with average line play, then either Barkley is a bust or Eli is done. What I saw looked better than last year which was all I was hoping for at this point. Sure, they looked improved from last year, but that isn't exactly a big achievement, considering how terrible they've been. I have no expectations, I just couldn't help but notice the same bad tendencies on full display. Even in a basic offense, they should still show at least some capability of moving the ball consistently, and they didn't. Again. I just find it hard to not be somewhat concerned Without 2 a days in practice there just isn't a lot of time before the regular season so there are concerns. For me the oline and the Qb (Eli) and the backup god forbid we need it. A lot rides on the running game.
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Merc
Special Teams
Posts: 1,680
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Post by Merc on Aug 12, 2018 18:40:45 GMT -5
Browns game planned for game Shurmur game planned for season.
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