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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 14, 2020 9:59:38 GMT -5
"Was also told candidates also had to agree to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend
an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan"
I've also heard that the analytics guys will be in the coaches "ear" during the games as well. Sounds like quite an organization.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 14, 2020 10:09:28 GMT -5
"Was also told candidates also had to agree to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend
an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan"
I've also heard that the analytics guys will be in the coaches "ear" during the games as well. Sounds like quite an organization.
That's exactly what the Ravens did all year. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 14, 2020 10:44:03 GMT -5
I think analytics have always been around. People just used to call them notations. Little facts to help make you make a better decision. I don't feel they should be used as a strict code, but they should certainly be paid attention to.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 14, 2020 10:57:09 GMT -5
"Was also told candidates also had to agree to turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend
an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan"
I've also heard that the analytics guys will be in the coaches "ear" during the games as well. Sounds like quite an organization.
That's exactly what the Ravens did all year.
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 14, 2020 11:33:39 GMT -5
That's exactly what the Ravens did all year.
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
So simple, so brilliant, it's amazing that teams vie away from this. |
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Post by Waybackfan on Jan 14, 2020 11:39:10 GMT -5
It's a suicide mission to take the Brown's HC job.
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Post by jimmieray on Jan 14, 2020 12:14:50 GMT -5
Analyze This!
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 14, 2020 12:19:46 GMT -5
That's exactly what the Ravens did all year.
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
Not saying that. What they did was have input in decisions on the field. Analytics was a huge part of their decision making, like when to go for it on 4th down.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 14, 2020 12:24:27 GMT -5
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
So simple, so brilliant, it's amazing that teams vie away from this.
There one good reason why it doesn't happen and that's because the two sides cannot coexist. The coaches would end up kick the living shit out of the analytics guys.
Welcome to the Browns. Let me show you how we do things...
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 14, 2020 12:39:34 GMT -5
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
Not saying that. What they did was have input in decisions on the field. Analytics was a huge part of their decision making, like when to go for it on 4th down.
Wasn't Pat Shurmur was an analytic guy in that sense. He cited analytics as his reasoning for going for two at times and on 4th downs. I thought he was an awful in-game coach.
But back to the Browns who are now going on their 4th or 5th year with DePodesta. I think he's on his 3rd GM and HC for anyone keeping score.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 14, 2020 12:48:48 GMT -5
That's exactly what the Ravens did all year.
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
Analytics 75% of Judge's press conference..... This is just the stupidly of having a few computer geeks that have zero knowledge of football inserting mathematical equations into a computer not knowing anything about the game and spitting out bullshit.. FWIW the 49ers are also one of tbe biggest teams into analytics...so there is a big place for this But 100% of analytics goes out the window if both of your lines suck on both side of tbe ball and injuries.. |
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Post by jaymas on Jan 14, 2020 22:49:28 GMT -5
Nothing more frustrating than how analytics in football is portrayed by the media. Either grossly over-simplifies the discipline or makes it sound like it's football guys vs. nerds.
Using data and generating insight from analysis to make sound decisions has a place in literally everything. An analytic or analytical process is also applied to film study, it's just qualitative rather than quantitative. Everything has its place and everything can also be used incorrectly.
Could the browns screw up sound thinking, absolutely. But the media is impressive for making meeting with the analytics team sound like something super ridiculous.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 18, 2020 12:53:16 GMT -5
this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes Analytics is actually the complete opposite (to the extreme) of square pegs round holes. They literally look at exactly what a player does well and try to focus on that more. The NFL has always used analytics but they didn't call it that. As for the Browns, they have talked about this alot. They don't want to critique the HC, but work with him how they can and help. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 18, 2020 13:43:25 GMT -5
this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes Analytics is actually the complete opposite (to the extreme) of square pegs round holes. They literally look at exactly what a player does well and try to focus on that more. The NFL has always used analytics but they didn't call it that. As for the Browns, they have talked about this alot. They don't want to critique the HC, but work with him how they can and help.
There's nothing wrong with that in theory but since this is a copy cat league, it seems the Browns should serve more as a bad example on the use of analytics. And the premise of the OP was about their methods of forcing their analytics on their next coaching staff. But I understand their ownership has come out to deny what was report as being the case.
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Post by giants8493 on Jan 18, 2020 14:05:50 GMT -5
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
Analytics 75% of Judge's press conference..... This is just the stupidly of having a few computer geeks that have zero knowledge of football inserting mathematical equations into a computer not knowing anything about the game and spitting out bullshit.. FWIW the 49ers are also one of tbe biggest teams into analytics...so there is a big place for this But 100% of analytics goes out the window if both of your lines suck on both side of tbe ball and injuries.. One of the reasons why analytics don't work in football is it is full on 11 vs 11 where of one of those guys don't do their full job it it can completely alter the results of a play. Also, there are very few games played through out the season leading to numbers that may not reflected actual averages. That was a tough sentence so I'll give an example to visualize what I mean. Let's say you flip a coin, the "analytics" say it's 50% :50%. BUT if you flip that coin 10 times it is entirely possible that you get 7 heads! Meanwhile if you flip that coin 100 times the law of averaging will eventually level out leading to a 50/50 ratio. This is why I think it does make a ton of sense for baseball since it really is 1 on 1 and then when the ball is hit you position the defense to where that ball statistically is going to go. Consider that you play 162 games and you have yourself a predictable situation and enough sample size for your analytics to play out over time. Doesn't quite work that way in football though. To many variables going on at the same times and too few of games for it to work out in your favor over the course of a season. |
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Post by TEM on Jan 18, 2020 14:07:18 GMT -5
Analytics is actually the complete opposite (to the extreme) of square pegs round holes. They literally look at exactly what a player does well and try to focus on that more. The NFL has always used analytics but they didn't call it that. As for the Browns, they have talked about this alot. They don't want to critique the HC, but work with him how they can and help.
There's nothing wrong with that in theory but since this is a copy cat league, it seems the Browns should serve more as a bad example on the use of analytics. And the premise of the OP was about their methods of forcing their analytics on their next coaching staff. But I understand their ownership has come out to deny what was report as being the case.
I think analytics work better in a close to closed system. ( Baseball) There are only a handful of outcomes Walk SO Hit. Only 2-3 active participants at any give time .The pitcher and the hitter. Runner and the fielder. The fielder, catcher of the fielder's throw and the runner , There are 22 active on a football field every time the ball is snapped . All have direct outcome on the play at any give point between the snap and the whistle. Football also has discriminate rules that are contingent on observation and interpretation of the rule.There is only one thing subjective in Baseball (balls and strikes). For the most part Baseball is out or not Fair or foul , Home run or not. IMO: Football is too dynamic of a system to be as black and white that analytics want to predict for a statically favorable outcome. |
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 18, 2020 14:36:23 GMT -5
That's exactly what the Ravens did all year.
That's terrible and almost comical at the same time. You mean to tell me the Raven's analytics department has a hand in the improvisation skills of Lamar Jackson?
Now, I understand how simple it is to sit back, look at numbers and declare oneself a genius but this just reeks of shoving a square pegs in round holes, while seemingly pitting the coaching staff against ownership and the front office.
It would make much more sense to have an analytics department involved the game planning process rather than have them study and grade all the coaches hard work after the fact.
I'm not a fan.
Did the analytics predict what would happen if a team figured out how to limit Jackson like the Titans did? Pretty sure they didnt predict 12 points from that offense. |
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Post by moecoastie on Jan 18, 2020 15:52:22 GMT -5
I have concluded that everyone has different ideas of what specific analytic anyone is talking about at a given time.
Someone mentioned it would be smart to use analytics to know when to go for it on 4th down. DUUUDE! they been doing that since forever! You do know that coaching assistants spend majority of their time doing this right? They review teams tendencies, success rates on down and distance by formation, etc.. This is old shit being repackaged so people who have no place in the football industry can feel justified and feel part of a great game. They arent reinventing the wheel...theyre just calling it a tire instead of a wheel.
Shit like this is entry level tasks for coaching assistants yet every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks they can run a football team from the bottom of the totem pole.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 18, 2020 16:05:31 GMT -5
Analytics
When you have weapons outside that teams have to account for and you somewhat spread the formation and you.have a decent O line and rb...you will be able to run the ball at will agaisnt a thinned and spread out box.
If you run it at will up tempo,you sap the energy out of the front 7 if you keep doing it
Analytics
When you have 3 above average d linemen that can control if not dominate a 5 man O line,you can run whatever scheme behind it and generally shut down opposing offenses.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Jan 19, 2020 9:08:54 GMT -5
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Post by infinite420 on Jan 19, 2020 9:49:43 GMT -5
I think analytics have always been around. People just used to call them notations. Little facts to help make you make a better decision. I don't feel they should be used as a strict code, but they should certainly be paid attention to. Analytics.......haha aka tendencies |
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