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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 6:22:02 GMT -5
IMO: it was not and was a serious red flag. As MH said a franchise QB is a 10-14 year player. The problem with concussions is; Once you start to get them . You are more likely to get more. How many is too many 3 , 5 10? I understand why some GMs passed on him. Cam Newton, Case Keenum, and plenty of other QBs have had multiple concussions in one season recently. Not a huge deal. Especially considering the amount of time he'd have in between hits, from his last concussion til his next live action. He's got a 100% bill of health, not exactly about to be sipping meals through a straw the next time he's tackled. Check out Josh Allen's injury history compared to Rosen's. Look at Wentz' before he was drafted, and he got injured again, was that a bad pick? Seriously over blown.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 20, 2018 8:19:22 GMT -5
Everyone of the QBs in this past class had a Red flag. 90 % of a QB is from the neck up . One lacked that One was a concussion away from using a bib and a highchair. One could not keep his cool. One had ball control issues throwing the Football One was a turnover machine Just about every college QB's has red flags. No one checks every box.
If we used the criteria you are suggesting, no team would ever draft a QB.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 20, 2018 11:59:31 GMT -5
I was not being facetious, although you were on solid ground with that view. I wouldn't mess with you just to mess with you, I don't know you well enough for that yet! I do believe that a couple of franchise QBs may come out of this class, but not 5. I also believe that a couple may be journeymen or out of the league before too long, also not 5. GMs miss on picks all the time; Heisman trophy winners go on to suck as pros, as you say, we can not be certain. It is certainly possible that I've been watching the game so long that I'm skeptical but I've seen more than enough of the aforementioned to not be so. There's no right or wrong here it's just a differing view. These certainly aren't deeply held beliefs of mine, just my gut feeling. Oh I agree the chances of 5 out of 5 happening is slim. To be honest I could easily see Allen and Mayfield struggle and eventually bounce around the league, maybe Mayfield cuts out a career as a backup. I can see Darnold busting altogether, or he could be really solid, like a Stafford. Jackson is pure boom or bust. The hit-or-miss aspect surrounds every prospect. The guy I wanted though, was Rosen. I don't see a bust at all. I see a top 5 QB for the next decade, only possible thing that can infringe on that is injury, like Aaron Rodgers, and if he Romo'd it wouldn't be until he's older. He was 100% the guy above all other prospects on the board, even a trade up to get the two next best prospects, that's how highly graded I had Rosen. I wanted Rosen as well but I ain’t the GM and we got what we got. And while I don’t agree with the order the GM has taken to rebuild the team, I don’t know that it is going to make a huge difference. Either way this team is years away. Adding a QB now very likely wasn’t gonna change that.
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Post by TEM on Jul 20, 2018 14:13:41 GMT -5
Everyone of the QBs in this past class had a Red flag. 90 % of a QB is from the neck up . One lacked that One was a concussion away from using a bib and a highchair. One could not keep his cool. One had ball control issues throwing the Football One was a turnover machine Just about every college QB's has red flags. No one checks every box.
If we used the criteria you are suggesting, no team would ever draft a QB.
I agree they are highly critical standards. With a #2 overall it is pertinent to be that way. As you move down in the draft the sting of a mistake becomes less.
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Post by TEM on Jul 20, 2018 14:24:16 GMT -5
Cam Newton, Case Keenum, and plenty of other QBs have had multiple concussions in one season recently. Not a huge deal. Especially considering the amount of time he'd have in between hits, from his last concussion til his next live action. He's got a 100% bill of health, not exactly about to be sipping meals through a straw the next time he's tackled. Check out Josh Allen's injury history compared to Rosen's. Look at Wentz' before he was drafted, and he got injured again, was that a bad pick? Seriously over blown. There is a difference in having a player that has received head injuries during their time on the team and drafting one. You are using Allen and Wentz as examples ,neither has had concurrent concussions . With Wentz his durability is still a question. Was be a bad pick because he may or not be injury prone. That has not been established. IMO you do not draft QBs with the #2 overall pick with a head injury history or any of the flags I stated. You have to hit a homerun with that pick. Starting with strikes does not bode well for the GM.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 20, 2018 20:53:45 GMT -5
Why in the world wouldn't we take the best player in the draft when he was still there at #2 ? Were not ready to end Eli's career. He is probably going to be our QB for the next 2-3 years.
Beckham and Barkley in the same offense is a dream come true. Engram and Shepard have just become so much more dangerous. In 3 -4 years we can draft or trade or pick up a FA QB to not only carry us but to lead us. There are so many options.
These guys we have backing up Eli probably aren't even going to be here when Eli retires. Every year in the draft there is someone to replace all these backups that are suppose to be the next Giant QB. IMO Eli is still our guy for this year and probably the next 2 after that. We'll still be doing these threads when Eli turns 40.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 20, 2018 21:33:09 GMT -5
Why in the world wouldn't we take the best player in the draft when he was still there at #2 ? Were not ready to end Eli's career. He is probably going to be our QB for the next 2-3 years. Beckham and Barkley in the same offense is a dream come true. Engram and Shepard have just become so much more dangerous. In 3 -4 years we can draft or trade or pick up a FA QB to not only carry us but to lead us. There are so many options. These guys we have backing up Eli probably aren't even going to be here when Eli retires. Every year in the draft there is someone to replace all these backups that are suppose to be the next Giant QB. IMO Eli is still our guy for this year and probably the next 2 after that. We'll still be doing these threads when Eli turns 40. I would say it's 50/50 at best that he will be our QB in 2019. Of course we may be forced to have him, regardless of how bad he plays if we have no other options.
In my view it was a golden opportunity to set our team for the next 10+ years at QB.
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Post by BronxBomberBlue on Jul 20, 2018 22:46:32 GMT -5
I would say it's 50/50 at best that he will be our QB in 2019. Of course we may be forced to have him, regardless of how bad he plays if we have no other options.
In my view it was a golden opportunity to set our team for the next 10+ years at QB.
+1
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Post by TEM on Jul 21, 2018 8:01:11 GMT -5
Cam Newton, Case Keenum, and plenty of other QBs have had multiple concussions in one season recently. Not a huge deal. Especially considering the amount of time he'd have in between hits, from his last concussion til his next live action. He's got a 100% bill of health, not exactly about to be sipping meals through a straw the next time he's tackled. Check out Josh Allen's injury history compared to Rosen's. Look at Wentz' before he was drafted, and he got injured again, was that a bad pick? Seriously over blown. There is a difference in having a player that has received head injuries during their time on the team and drafting one. You are using Allen and Wentz as examples ,neither has had concurrent concussions . With Wentz his durability is still a question. Was he a bad pick because he may or not be injury prone. That has not been established. IMO you do not draft QBs with the #2 overall pick with a head injury history or any of the flags I stated. You have to hit a homerun with that pick. Starting with strikes does not bode well for the GM.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 8:23:04 GMT -5
Oh I agree the chances of 5 out of 5 happening is slim. To be honest I could easily see Allen and Mayfield struggle and eventually bounce around the league, maybe Mayfield cuts out a career as a backup. I can see Darnold busting altogether, or he could be really solid, like a Stafford. Jackson is pure boom or bust. The hit-or-miss aspect surrounds every prospect. The guy I wanted though, was Rosen. I don't see a bust at all. I see a top 5 QB for the next decade, only possible thing that can infringe on that is injury, like Aaron Rodgers, and if he Romo'd it wouldn't be until he's older. He was 100% the guy above all other prospects on the board, even a trade up to get the two next best prospects, that's how highly graded I had Rosen. I wanted Rosen as well but I ain’t the GM and we got what we got. And while I don’t agree with the order the GM has taken to rebuild the team, I don’t know that it is going to make a huge difference. Either way this team is years away. Adding a QB now very likely wasn’t gonna change that. Don't get me wrong though, I'm excited to get Barkley. If he lives up to the hype we will be competitive very soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 8:39:45 GMT -5
There is a difference in having a player that has received head injuries during their time on the team and drafting one. You are using Allen and Wentz as examples ,neither has had concurrent concussions . With Wentz his durability is still a question. Was he a bad pick because he may or not be injury prone. That has not been established. IMO you do not draft QBs with the #2 overall pick with a head injury history or any of the flags I stated. You have to hit a homerun with that pick. Starting with strikes does not bode well for the GM. Agree to disagree about the severity of Rosen's concussion history. But I'll give you that he at least had a "red flag" in that category. And that is the only red flag with any substance, that I will concede as far as Rosen's NFL prospects. Now that said, no other NFL prospect has ever been without any red flags, or legitimate on-field concerns, or checks every box. Even Saquon Barkley has holes in his game. He shies from contact, always looks to break it outside and hit the big open field run, and will result in losses or short gains, instead of taking the hole up the middle and using his size and power to grind for 5 yards. He doesn't like to hit or be hit. That is kind of a huge thing for an NFL RB. Also, he had several inconsistent or no show performances, even against inferior competition. He rarely touched the ball more than 20x per game, and when he was asked to carry 20+ times, struggled. He's not as "can't miss" as everybody thinks. I think the hype train on Saquon needs to hit the breaks, because if he doesn't live up to expectations that are now almost impossible to live up to, it could derail our season and future seasons.
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Post by TEM on Jul 21, 2018 8:54:34 GMT -5
Agree to disagree about the severity of Rosen's concussion history. But I'll give you that he at least had a "red flag" in that category. And that is the only red flag with any substance, that I will concede as far as Rosen's NFL prospects. Now that said, no other NFL prospect has ever been without any red flags, or legitimate on-field concerns, or checks every box. Even Saquon Barkley has holes in his game. He shies from contact, always looks to break it outside and hit the big open field run, and will result in losses or short gains, instead of taking the hole up the middle and using his size and power to grind for 5 yards. He doesn't like to hit or be hit. That is kind of a huge thing for an NFL RB. Also, he had several inconsistent or no show performances, even against inferior competition. He rarely touched the ball more than 20x per game, and when he was asked to carry 20+ times, struggled. He's not as "can't miss" as everybody thinks. I think the hype train on Saquon needs to hit the breaks, because if he doesn't live up to expectations that are now almost impossible to live up to, it could derail our season and future seasons. I agree with all of this . The one factor with the QB is . He is the guy you live and die by him. When you pick a bad one it hurts. Like I said I have my doubts about the hype that was given to this class. . The QB is the only pick on the team that is hard to recover from. If he proves he is not cut out for the NFL. Any other position picked on the team that is not up to snuff. That impact can be diminished with rotation of players. You can not rotate QBs . When a top 2 position in the draft QB pick goes bad . It bites and draws blood.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 21, 2018 12:22:45 GMT -5
Why in the world wouldn't we take the best player in the draft when he was still there at #2 ? Were not ready to end Eli's career. He is probably going to be our QB for the next 2-3 years. Beckham and Barkley in the same offense is a dream come true. Engram and Shepard have just become so much more dangerous. In 3 -4 years we can draft or trade or pick up a FA QB to not only carry us but to lead us. There are so many options. These guys we have backing up Eli probably aren't even going to be here when Eli retires. Every year in the draft there is someone to replace all these backups that are suppose to be the next Giant QB. IMO Eli is still our guy for this year and probably the next 2 after that. We'll still be doing these threads when Eli turns 40. I would say it's 50/50 at best that he will be our QB in 2019. Of course we may be forced to have him, regardless of how bad he plays if we have no other options.
In my view it was a golden opportunity to set our team for the next 10+ years at QB.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 21, 2018 12:37:26 GMT -5
Why in the world wouldn't we take the best player in the draft when he was still there at #2 ? Were not ready to end Eli's career. He is probably going to be our QB for the next 2-3 years. Beckham and Barkley in the same offense is a dream come true. Engram and Shepard have just become so much more dangerous. In 3 -4 years we can draft or trade or pick up a FA QB to not only carry us but to lead us. There are so many options. These guys we have backing up Eli probably aren't even going to be here when Eli retires. Every year in the draft there is someone to replace all these backups that are suppose to be the next Giant QB. IMO Eli is still our guy for this year and probably the next 2 after that. We'll still be doing these threads when Eli turns 40. I would say it's 50/50 at best that he will be our QB in 2019. Of course we may be forced to have him, regardless of how bad he plays if we have no other options. In my view it was a golden opportunity to set our team for the next 10+ years at QB.
I was expecting you Morehead you are the first. After I made this post I was expecting Bronx pinstripes and Sarcasman as well. But I thank you for being civilized in your response and I have to say that I do agree with you at this point it's 50-50 about Eli in 2019.
But you state "we might be forced to have him regardless of how bad he plays" how about how good he plays ? Then he definitely comes into 2019 as the starter. I think there is a much better chance to expect positive from Eli than negative.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 21, 2018 14:12:44 GMT -5
I would say it's 50/50 at best that he will be our QB in 2019. Of course we may be forced to have him, regardless of how bad he plays if we have no other options. In my view it was a golden opportunity to set our team for the next 10+ years at QB.
I was expecting you Morehead you are the first. After I made this post I was expecting Bronx pinstripes and Sarcasman as well. But I thank you for being civilized in your response and I have to say that I do agree with you at this point it's 50-50 about Eli in 2019.
But you state "we might be forced to have him regardless of how bad he plays" how about how good he plays ? Then he definitely comes into 2019 as the starter. I think there is a much better chance to expect positive from Eli than negative.
I can only beat a dead horse for so long; I get bored easily. I wanted a QB because of the calendar. QBs don't get better as they get toward 40 so naturally drafting a QB in QB rich class makes sense. But I'm also not a buyer of the apocryphal belief often bandied about here about the impact of franchise QBs. I don't believe that simply signing a quality QB assures a team of anything. To me, a franchise QB solves a major variable when rebuilding a team and that's important. But the idea that the QB is going to be the difference in whether a team wins a championship or not is as silly as it is unsubstantiated. As I said earlier this team needs a lot, it is extremely unlikely that simply swapping a new QB in there now is going to have any material impact on the team's overall success in the next couple of years. That said, imo that strategy does provide the best foundation for building a solid team for the long haul.
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Jul 24, 2018 10:50:30 GMT -5
I wanted to trade down . I am still happy with the pick . It will be an exciting season . For I am ready for some Football right now. 82 days and counting. +1. I really wanted the trade down but I’m also excited with what Barkley can bring to this offense
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Post by moecoastie on Jul 25, 2018 2:03:34 GMT -5
Picking a QB would not have improved the team for 2018. Therefore there may have been a possibility we are picking high in the draft yet again with 30mil tied up in the QB position alone. Drafting high would have guaranteed another large rookie contract. Unless there is a slam dunk QB available, you dont take that hit unless youre desperate. Despite what some think, with Eli manning, the Giants werent desperate enough to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 12:54:20 GMT -5
I wanted Barkley at 2. The only QB I would have been ok with was Rosen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 13:43:43 GMT -5
Giants just in a rough spot and I think did what we needed, now next year?
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