giantsalmon
Starter
Came over from a defunct board. Formerly LakeO Giant fan
Posts: 3,900
|
Post by giantsalmon on Jan 22, 2021 10:08:31 GMT -5
I really like Watson as a player and he seems like a solid guy. But no, I would not make that trade. I'm a believer in building TEAM not silver bullets. If NYG continues to rise the next 2 yrs it will be because of those 3 players offered up in large part.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jan 22, 2021 10:37:05 GMT -5
No disrespect my apologies.. If an elite QB shows me he still plays at a high level with minimal talent im willing to work around the cap to try to win something with him (ie Rodgers). Watson showed the NFL he can put up MVP numbers on a 4-12 team. Who wouldn't take that risk? And you would be willing to basically decimate the team that is being built here so we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB? So now youโre predicting what our record would be? Got any eye rolling emojis you can spare? This deserves five of them..
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jan 22, 2021 10:47:27 GMT -5
I would do that trade in a heartbeat. I like DJ, but I think Watson is significantly better, at least at this juncture. DJ could evolve into a top end QB, but he has some serious warts to freeze off, as has been discussed ad nauseum. I would trade DJ for Watson no doubt but I think that adding those Barkley and Lawrence is too much value. If we've already decided that there will be no second contract for SB, that would help but ..... DJ plus a 1 and 3 might be as far as I'd go. Cap implications as with most big deals would drive the yes/no decision and for how much other personnel/draft picks imo.
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Jan 22, 2021 10:51:06 GMT -5
And you would be willing to basically decimate the team that is being built here so we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB? So now youโre predicting what our record would be? Got any eye rolling emojis you can spare? This deserves five of them.. Not predicting anything. Just questioning the logic of trading away some of our best players for a QB who has not been able to achieve much on a different marginal team. I want wins and playoffs and rings. Trading away good players so we can pay huge money for a QB is not the answer, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 22, 2021 10:57:02 GMT -5
I would absolutely trade for Watson. The only framework for a deal would be if Caserio is high on Jones. If he were 11 and 2 round 1s could be a legit trade scenario, but impossible to know how he views DJ. In terms of the cap and immediate ability to win, the deal would probably hamper us. However if you can get an elite QB in their prime you do it. Houston scored 110 more points than we did with an absolutely terrible cast around Watson. He can make lower priced guys give higher priced results offensively. I think the Jets and Miami are the spots for him. Can more easily absorb his cap and can offer a pick where Houston can take his replacement as part of the deal.
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on Jan 22, 2021 11:07:59 GMT -5
Yes Watson sells jerseys and goes to Pro Bowls, but what has he ever won? You don't think Jones could have as many playoff wins after 4 years? Giants fans crack me up when they talk shit about other players to boost up their own. At least Watson's teams actually make the playoffs less last year. Jones had more turnovers than TDs in an offense friendly league. Settle down, where did I talk shit about Watson to boost up Jones? I'm just stating the obvious fact that Watson hasn't won anything in the NFL over a 4-year career.
|
|
|
Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 22, 2021 11:13:51 GMT -5
Giants fans crack me up when they talk shit about other players to boost up their own. At least Watson's teams actually make the playoffs less last year. Jones had more turnovers than TDs in an offense friendly league. Settle down, where did I talk shit about Watson to boost up Jones? I'm just stating the obvious fact that Watson hasn't won anything in the NFL over a 4-year career. He's only going to be 26 years old at the start of next year. Which for all intents and purposes is like being 21 with the rules today. He could be the QB for 10-15 years. He's 28-25 as a starter which was 24-13 coming into 2020. Bill O'Brien was one of the only GMs in the league that's done a worse job than Dave Gettleman. That's an 0-16 team with a QB 2 tiers below Watson. I don't think Watson is realistic in any way, but guys like him are never available. Have to make the call and be told no.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jan 22, 2021 11:15:44 GMT -5
So now youโre predicting what our record would be? Got any eye rolling emojis you can spare? This deserves five of them.. Not predicting anything. Just questioning the logic of trading away some of our best players for a QB who has not been able to achieve much on a different marginal team. I want wins and playoffs and rings. Trading away good players so we can pay huge money for a QB is not the answer, IMO. โ So we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB?โ Tell me thatโs doesnโt sound like a prediction.. When I see a record in regards to a season that has yet been played thatโs called a prediction. Funny, I quoted your post. But, your previous post is what got my attention. Yes, a quarterback should be able to carry his team. Hence, why they get paid the most money and theyโre the most valuable position on the field. When weโre accepting bad results due to the QB not having โweaponsโ says we have an average quarterback. And you said Watson has achieved nothing. He has been to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. We get excited with beating the Washingtonโs of the league, and showing progress. This guy has actually accomplished what we wish we had. Going to the playoffs. I want wins and championships more than anyone. But, letโs no discredit a great quarterback while doing so. The premise of this thread wasnโt that off. The question should have been โIf we could trade for Watson what would you give up?โ Anyone who dismisses this should take a long walk off a short pier. Watson would make us immediate players in the division.
|
|
|
Post by piddy283 on Jan 22, 2021 11:17:20 GMT -5
Nah. Love the question, but nah.
Keep the core intact and keep building.....no need to trade away good young pieces, on rookie contracts, at this point.
Watson is a stud though.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Jan 22, 2021 11:33:38 GMT -5
Not predicting anything.ย Just questioning the logic of trading away some of our best players for a QB who has not been able to achieve much on a different marginal team. I want wins and playoffs and rings.ย Trading away good players so we can pay huge money for a QB is not the answer, IMO. โ So we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB?โย Tell me thatโs doesnโt sound like a prediction.. When I see a record in regards to a season that has yet been played thatโs called a prediction.ย Funny, I quoted your post. But, your previous post is what got my attention. Yes, a quarterback should be able to carry his team. Hence, why they get paid the most money and theyโre the most valuable position on the field. When weโre accepting bad results due to the QB not having โweaponsโ says we have an average quarterback. And you said Watson has achieved nothing. He has been to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. We get excited with beating the Washingtonโs of the league, and showing progress. This guy has actually accomplished what we wish we had. Going to the playoffs.ย I want wins and championships more than anyone. But, letโs no discredit a great quarterback while doing so. The premise of this thread wasnโt that off. The question should have been โIf we could trade for Watson what would you give up?โ Anyone who dismisses this should take a long walk off a short pier. Watson would make us immediate players in the division.ย I think most are forgetting the situation Watson was in. As a QB he did did everything he could in his power in 2020. The stats prove it. He cannot overcome the poor coaching/lack of head coach. He does not play defense either. He did score points and limited turnovers which is his job. The team's record should not diminish his efforts.
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Jan 22, 2021 11:39:16 GMT -5
Not predicting anything. Just questioning the logic of trading away some of our best players for a QB who has not been able to achieve much on a different marginal team. I want wins and playoffs and rings. Trading away good players so we can pay huge money for a QB is not the answer, IMO. โ So we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB?โ Tell me thatโs doesnโt sound like a prediction.. When I see a record in regards to a season that has yet been played thatโs called a prediction. Funny, I quoted your post. But, your previous post is what got my attention. Yes, a quarterback should be able to carry his team. Hence, why they get paid the most money and theyโre the most valuable position on the field. When weโre accepting bad results due to the QB not having โweaponsโ says we have an average quarterback. And you said Watson has achieved nothing. He has been to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. We get excited with beating the Washingtonโs of the league, and showing progress. This guy has actually accomplished what we wish we had. Going to the playoffs. I want wins and championships more than anyone. But, letโs no discredit a great quarterback while doing so. The premise of this thread wasnโt that off. The question should have been โIf we could trade for Watson what would you give up?โ Anyone who dismisses this should take a long walk off a short pier. Watson would make us immediate players in the division. I'm not discrediting him. He's obviously a better QB than we have. I just disagree with what is proposed we give up to get him. We are not a good QB away from the playoffs, and his cap hit alone would hurt our rebuild bigtime. "Watson would make us immediate players in the division." Agree to disagree.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Jan 22, 2021 11:45:02 GMT -5
โ So we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB?โย Tell me thatโs doesnโt sound like a prediction.. When I see a record in regards to a season that has yet been played thatโs called a prediction.ย Funny, I quoted your post. But, your previous post is what got my attention. Yes, a quarterback should be able to carry his team. Hence, why they get paid the most money and theyโre the most valuable position on the field. When weโre accepting bad results due to the QB not having โweaponsโ says we have an average quarterback. And you said Watson has achieved nothing. He has been to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. We get excited with beating the Washingtonโs of the league, and showing progress. This guy has actually accomplished what we wish we had. Going to the playoffs.ย I want wins and championships more than anyone. But, letโs no discredit a great quarterback while doing so. The premise of this thread wasnโt that off. The question should have been โIf we could trade for Watson what would you give up?โ Anyone who dismisses this should take a long walk off a short pier. Watson would make us immediate players in the division.ย I'm not discrediting him.ย He's obviously a better QB than we have.ย I just disagree with what is proposed we give up to get him.ย We are not a good QB away from the playoffs, and his cap hit alone would hurt our rebuild bigtime. "Watson would make us immediate players in the division."ย Agree to disagree. Doesn't it feel like we've been rebuilding for the most part of a decade? ๐ก๐ก๐ก
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on Jan 22, 2021 11:48:03 GMT -5
Unsure mostly due to how that entire situation in Houston evolved. How often does something like this happen where a QB is trying to force himself off a team that just gave him a massive contract? Should a QB be able to have a say when a team picks a new GM? What qualifications does a QB have in the decision process?
From a talent standpoint yes but if they tried to go down that path they would definitely need to understand Watson and if he would try to pull this again....
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Jan 22, 2021 11:48:45 GMT -5
I'm not discrediting him. He's obviously a better QB than we have. I just disagree with what is proposed we give up to get him. We are not a good QB away from the playoffs, and his cap hit alone would hurt our rebuild bigtime. "Watson would make us immediate players in the division." Agree to disagree. Doesn't it feel like we've been rebuilding for the most part of a decade? ๐ก๐ก๐ก Yeah, it does. But I dont think we are a QB away from the end of it.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Jan 22, 2021 11:50:14 GMT -5
โ So we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB?โย Tell me thatโs doesnโt sound like a prediction.. When I see a record in regards to a season that has yet been played thatโs called a prediction.ย Funny, I quoted your post. But, your previous post is what got my attention. Yes, a quarterback should be able to carry his team. Hence, why they get paid the most money and theyโre the most valuable position on the field. When weโre accepting bad results due to the QB not having โweaponsโ says we have an average quarterback. And you said Watson has achieved nothing. He has been to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. We get excited with beating the Washingtonโs of the league, and showing progress. This guy has actually accomplished what we wish we had. Going to the playoffs.ย I want wins and championships more than anyone. But, letโs no discredit a great quarterback while doing so. The premise of this thread wasnโt that off. The question should have been โIf we could trade for Watson what would you give up?โ Anyone who dismisses this should take a long walk off a short pier. Watson would make us immediate players in the division.ย I think most are forgetting the situation Watson was in. As a QB he did did everything he could in his power in 2020. The stats prove it. He cannot overcome the poor coaching/lack of head coach. He does not play defense either. He did score points and limited turnovers which is his job. The team's record should not diminish his efforts. I don't think that most of us are forgetting how good he is. There are just some that think we would be giving up too much, which is an argument that I can understand. I would do the trade personally, mainly because I feel like you have to take care of that position first and then worry about everything else later. You cannot win and be relevant in today's game without stellar QB play. In Watson's case, you certainly can lose with it. However, you won't win much without it.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Jan 22, 2021 11:51:53 GMT -5
Doesn't it feel like we've been rebuilding for the most part of a decade? ๐ก๐ก๐ก Yeah, it does.ย But I dont think we are a QB away from the end of it. It certainly would help out a lot though. The argument against making this kind of deal is a good one despite my disagreement with it.
|
|
|
Post by bluebuddha on Jan 22, 2021 12:02:32 GMT -5
I think most are forgetting the situation Watson was in. As a QB he did did everything he could in his power in 2020. The stats prove it. He cannot overcome the poor coaching/lack of head coach. He does not play defense either. He did score points and limited turnovers which is his job. The team's record should not diminish his efforts. I don't think that most of us are forgetting how good he is. There are just some that think we would be giving up too much, which is an argument that I can understand. I would do the trade personally, mainly because I feel like you have to take care of that position first and then worry about everything else later. You cannot win and be relevant in today's game without stellar QB play. In Watson's case, you certainly can lose with it. However, you won't win much without it. Yeah I am in the same boat. Why constantly search for the hardest position in football to find when one might possibly be attainable. The only argument is the value? That in on the owners and FO.
|
|
|
Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 22, 2021 12:07:36 GMT -5
I think most are forgetting the situation Watson was in. As a QB he did did everything he could in his power in 2020. The stats prove it. He cannot overcome the poor coaching/lack of head coach. He does not play defense either. He did score points and limited turnovers which is his job. The team's record should not diminish his efforts. I don't think that most of us are forgetting how good he is. There are just some that think we would be giving up too much, which is an argument that I can understand. I would do the trade personally, mainly because I feel like you have to take care of that position first and then worry about everything else later. You cannot win and be relevant in today's game without stellar QB play. In Watson's case, you certainly can lose with it. However, you won't win much without it. I'd go back to the Eli trade. We wanted a franchise QB so badly that we dealt # 4 with 2 other good QBs on the board plus the following years # 1 because we thought Eli was the surer franchise QB. Watson is a franchise QB. You can pretty much limit the teams who can win the SB to teams who have one of these guys. 9/10 SBs are won by franchise QB types.
|
|
|
Post by Kruunch on Jan 22, 2021 12:14:03 GMT -5
โ So we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB?โ Tell me thatโs doesnโt sound like a prediction.. When I see a record in regards to a season that has yet been played thatโs called a prediction. Funny, I quoted your post. But, your previous post is what got my attention. Yes, a quarterback should be able to carry his team. Hence, why they get paid the most money and theyโre the most valuable position on the field. When weโre accepting bad results due to the QB not having โweaponsโ says we have an average quarterback. And you said Watson has achieved nothing. He has been to the playoffs 2 out of 4 years. We get excited with beating the Washingtonโs of the league, and showing progress. This guy has actually accomplished what we wish we had. Going to the playoffs. I want wins and championships more than anyone. But, letโs no discredit a great quarterback while doing so. The premise of this thread wasnโt that off. The question should have been โIf we could trade for Watson what would you give up?โ Anyone who dismisses this should take a long walk off a short pier. Watson would make us immediate players in the division. I think most are forgetting the situation Watson was in. As a QB he did did everything he could in his power in 2020. The stats prove it. He cannot overcome the poor coaching/lack of head coach. He does not play defense either. He did score points and limited turnovers which is his job. The team's record should not diminish his efforts. Watson is a fantastic player, we should strive to have more players like him. While the rest of the league has a pair of kings showing, weโre hoping for that third two of clubs to pop up. If the Texans are dumb enough to trade him, Iโm calling Nick Caserio immediately and chewing his ear off on how to make that deal get done. Is this mostly talk among fans? Yeah, but it doesnโt hurt to inquire what is going on in Houston.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on Jan 22, 2021 13:12:59 GMT -5
I'm not discrediting him. He's obviously a better QB than we have. I just disagree with what is proposed we give up to get him. We are not a good QB away from the playoffs, and his cap hit alone would hurt our rebuild bigtime. "Watson would make us immediate players in the division." Agree to disagree. Doesn't it feel like we've been rebuilding for the most part of a decade? ๐ก๐ก๐ก It feels that way because we have been...
|
|
|
Post by giantsmets on Jan 22, 2021 13:42:05 GMT -5
I would do that trade in a heartbeat. I like DJ, but I think Watson is significantly better, at least at this juncture. DJ could evolve into a top end QB, but he has some serious warts to freeze off, as has been discussed ad nauseum. I would trade DJ for Watson no doubt but I think that adding those Barkley and Lawrence is too much value. If we've already decided that there will be no second contract for SB, that would help but ..... DJ plus a 1 and 3 might be as far as I'd go. Cap implications as with most big deals would drive the yes/no decision and for how much other personnel/draft picks imo. I agree that giving up all 3 for Watson is simply too much. DJ plus picks? Absolutely as much as I think Jones will do really well with a couple of better receivers like this years first round pick and one of the numerous free agent WR's . Of the three DJ is the easiest one to let go. And let's be clear, Watson is an elite player and would love him playing QB here, this proposal is simply too much to give up.
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Jan 22, 2021 16:33:20 GMT -5
Doesn't it feel like we've been rebuilding for the most part of a decade? ๐ก๐ก๐ก Yeah, it does. But I dont think we are a QB away from the end of it. I agree, its a sucker move that teams make who are desperate at QB, we are not, I think we can be a good football team if we continue to upgrade the talent on both sides of the LOS, hopefully through smart drafting with a minimum of paying FAs...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 17:01:06 GMT -5
No disrespect my apologies.. If an elite QB shows me he still plays at a high level with minimal talent im willing to work around the cap to try to win something with him (ie Rodgers). Watson showed the NFL he can put up MVP numbers on a 4-12 team. Who wouldn't take that risk? And you would be willing to basically decimate the team that is being built here so we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB? Losing those 3 players isn't exactly "decimating" the team.. not even close.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jan 22, 2021 17:45:51 GMT -5
LMAO. Hell no. On a side note I really do enjoy these types of threads. What makes you say no, your confidence in Jones? The current state of the process? Or not wanting to lose homegrown talent? A) I think Jones will be a GREAT QB. B) Trust the process, giving up 3 of our top guys ins't good for a team lacking talent. C) I don't think Watson is great. I think he's a good QB but do not believe he is the type of QB to lift his team from poor to great.
Before you go through the trouble of putting up stats lets just agree that QB rate is a good measure of stats. He has a QB rate in the same range as Kirk Cousins. Both about a 104 over the past 4 seasons. Not far off from Mahommes. The difference is neither one of them have proven to be great in crunch time or show some intangible ability to lift their team to great heights. You need something more than a decent QB rating in this league. Mahomes has IT. I don't think Cousins does and I don't think Watson does, so no way would I give up 3 guys or 1st rounders for him. I'd prefer to take my chances with Jones, see if he has IT (certainly did in college) and go from there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 18:39:59 GMT -5
What makes you say no, your confidence in Jones? The current state of the process? Or not wanting to lose homegrown talent? A) I think Jones will be a GREAT QB. B) Trust the process, giving up 3 of our top guys ins't good for a team lacking talent. C) I don't think Watson is great. I think he's a good QB but do not believe he is the type of QB to lift his team from poor to great.
Before you go through the trouble of putting up stats lets just agree that QB rate is a good measure of stats. He has a QB rate in the same range as Kirk Cousins. Both about a 104 over the past 4 seasons. Not far off from Mahommes. The difference is neither one of them have proven to be great in crunch time or show some intangible ability to lift their team to great heights. You need something more than a decent QB rating in this league. Mahomes has IT. I don't think Cousins does and I don't think Watson does, so no way would I give up 3 guys or 1st rounders for him. I'd prefer to take my chances with Jones, see if he has IT (certainly did in college) and go from there.
I respect your opinion. I think Watson is a top 5 QB right now and definitely has the IT factor.
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Jan 22, 2021 18:51:23 GMT -5
I respect your opinion. I think Watson is a top 5 QB right now and definitely has the IT factor. Fair enough. I will say that if I were the GM/HC and thought that about him and didn't think Jones had it then I would make the trade. I do like Watson and wish him well though.
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Jan 22, 2021 19:58:43 GMT -5
And you would be willing to basically decimate the team that is being built here so we could go 4 and 12 next year with an exciting QB? Losing those 3 players isn't exactly "decimating" the team.. not even close. The op's proposal isn't just about trading players. It's also about incurring his cap after trading away those players. This trade will never happen. Because it's stupid.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 21:56:07 GMT -5
Losing those 3 players isn't exactly "decimating" the team.. not even close. The op's proposal isn't just about trading players. It's also about incurring his cap after trading away those players. This trade will never happen. Because it's stupid. lol.. I respect your opinion
|
|
|
Post by DandyDon on Jan 22, 2021 22:05:42 GMT -5
The op's proposal isn't just about trading players. It's also about incurring his cap after trading away those players. This trade will never happen. Because it's stupid. lol.. I respect your opinion Let me understand, if you are the Giants GM, you would make the trade proposed by the OP? Really?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2021 22:29:20 GMT -5
lol.. I respect your opinion Let me understand, if you are the Giants GM, you would make the trade proposed by the OP? Really? ..I am the OP ๐ (the plot thickens)
|
|