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Post by Kase1 on Feb 17, 2021 16:53:48 GMT -5
So Big Blue View posted an article earlier today talking about 'possible' bargain free agent 25yr old Carl Lawson. He's not a big name because A. he plays on the Bengals, and B. he doesnt have a ton of sacks [20 over 4yrs], only averages about 20 tackles per year, only averages about 5 TFL per year, and about 21 QB Hurries.... So not GREAT numbers, on the surface Lawson’s 32 quarterback hits in 2020 were second in the NFL, and his 83 quarterback hits over his four-year career are tied for 11th in the league during that span. Only two edge rushers under the age of 30 had better pressure rates than Lawson in 2020. Lawson played only seven games in 2018 before suffering a torn right ACL. He played 12 games in 2019 when battling a hamstring injury. The bookend seasons to those, 2017 and 2019, have been highly productive. In 2020, Lawson had those 5.5 sacks and 32 hits, along with a PFF pass-rush productivity rate of 8.5 that was ninth among 72 qualifying rushers. In 2017, he had 8.5 sacks, 21 hits and was seventh among 71 qualifiers with a pass-rush productivity rate of 9.6. Advanced stats show how productive he was, despite finishing tied for 48th in the NFL with 5.5 sacks, but a different way of looking at the metric reveals so much more. As ESPN’s Seth Walder pointed out, if one looks at sacks as the first player to beat a blocker instead of who actually finishes the sack, Lawson had 10.5. One useful metric is sacks created, which credits a player for beating their blocker and helping cause the sack, instead of the person that actually gets the sack. Lawson was seventh in the NFL in sacks created according to Next Gen Stats; Aaron Donald: 19 Myles Garrett: 16.5 T.J. Watt: 14.5 Khalil Mack: 13 Justin Houston: 12 Emmanuel Ogbah: 11 Carl Lawson: 10.5 The article estimates that he will warrant around 8mil per season, which wont break the bank for a young pass rusher. www.bigblueview.com/2021/2/17/22276465/nfl-free-agency-2021-sack-numbers-dont-tell-carl-lawsons-whole-story |
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Post by TheAussieGiant on Feb 17, 2021 18:02:40 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, didn't Lawson had injury concerns coming into the NFL as well? Something to do with his shoulder. Pretty sure he had to sit out his whole rookie season with it. I remember him being a really good prospect coming out, but sounds like this guys body has been failing him.
I can see the interest, but personally its too big of an injury bug for me.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 17, 2021 18:58:37 GMT -5
Ehh
We have a bunch of guys that could be this guy still on rookie contracts TBH ...
And we can draft another young guy like this
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 9:39:31 GMT -5
IDK: He is a good player. But not more than 8-10 a year. He did have 32 QB hits so he can pressure the QB. But his tackle count is low . Not good for a D-linemen in Run defense.
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 18, 2021 10:13:12 GMT -5
He would already be our best edge rusher on our team. So let’s not just shoo him away without giving this some thought. Yeah, he’s had his fair share of injures. 2 out of 4 years he has missed games due to injures. Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him.
We’re in no position to downplay the position. If you need reminding of how anemic our edge rusher position is. Look no further than the games from last year.
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 10:40:35 GMT -5
He would already be our best edge rusher on our team. So let’s not just shoo him away without giving this some thought. Yeah, he’s had his fair share of injures. 2 out of 4 years he has missed games due to injures. Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him. We’re in no position to downplay the position. If you need reminding of how anemic our edge rusher position is. Look no further than the games from last year. What the difference if a DTs get the QB or the LBs? What I am asking . Is a pass rusher diffrent on what position he plays? What makes an edge rusher that can hit the QB more coveted than a DT that can? IMO: a DT that hit the QB is a more valuable player because he can also defend against the run. |
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 18, 2021 11:32:58 GMT -5
He would already be our best edge rusher on our team. So let’s not just shoo him away without giving this some thought. Yeah, he’s had his fair share of injures. 2 out of 4 years he has missed games due to injures. Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him. We’re in no position to downplay the position. If you need reminding of how anemic our edge rusher position is. Look no further than the games from last year. What the difference if a DTs get the QB or the LBs? What I am asking . Is a pass rusher diffrent on what position he plays? What makes an edge rusher that can hit the QB more coveted than a DT that can? IMO: a DT that hit the QB is a more valuable player because he can also defend against the run. What you’re describing is Aaron Donald. All 31 teams would want an interior player who can get consistent pressure. Unfortunately, those type of players don’t grow on trees. You have to generate pressure from the outside. Look at our defense last year, if Williams wasn’t getting to the quarterback our pass rush was nonexistent. Credit to Graham for implementing a defense that confuses the opposition. Edge rushers are in high demand in this league. Hence, why they get paid so well. When you have them it gives your defense a chance to compete with the elite teams. Look throughout the league, the top defenses all have talent at the position. Our defense would take the next step if we could get an elite edge rusher. |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 11:49:00 GMT -5
What the difference if a DTs get the QB or the LBs? What I am asking . Is a pass rusher diffrent on what position he plays? What makes an edge rusher that can hit the QB more coveted than a DT that can? IMO: a DT that hit the QB is a more valuable player because he can also defend against the run. What you’re describing is Aaron Donald. All 31 teams would want an interior player who can get consistent pressure. Unfortunately, those type of players don’t grow on trees. You have to generate pressure from the outside. Look at our defense last year, if Williams wasn’t getting to the quarterback our pass rush was nonexistent. Credit to Graham for implementing a defense that confuses the opposition. Edge rushers are in high demand in this league. Hence, why they get paid so well. When you have them it gives your defense a chance to compete with the elite teams. Look throughout the league, the top defenses all have talent at the position. Our defense would take the next step if we could get an elite edge rusher. No I am describing LW. And your right those types of players do not grow on trees. Making Williams more valuable than a 5 sack edge rusher every day of the week. |
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 18, 2021 12:18:52 GMT -5
What you’re describing is Aaron Donald. All 31 teams would want an interior player who can get consistent pressure. Unfortunately, those type of players don’t grow on trees. You have to generate pressure from the outside. Look at our defense last year, if Williams wasn’t getting to the quarterback our pass rush was nonexistent. Credit to Graham for implementing a defense that confuses the opposition. Edge rushers are in high demand in this league. Hence, why they get paid so well. When you have them it gives your defense a chance to compete with the elite teams. Look throughout the league, the top defenses all have talent at the position. Our defense would take the next step if we could get an elite edge rusher. No I am describing LW. And your right those types of players do not grow on trees. Making Williams more valuable than a 5 sack edge rusher every day of the week. Who’s this 5 sack edge rusher you speak of? Are you talking about Lawson? Because like I said, if he stays healthy and in the right system he can put sacks on the board. Remember about Williams, he was moved all over the line last year. He played the 5 and 6 tech a lot last year. Credit to Graham, he didn’t stick his best player in one spot. He moved him around and it benefited Williams. |
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 18, 2021 12:30:03 GMT -5
What you’re describing is Aaron Donald. All 31 teams would want an interior player who can get consistent pressure. Unfortunately, those type of players don’t grow on trees. You have to generate pressure from the outside. Look at our defense last year, if Williams wasn’t getting to the quarterback our pass rush was nonexistent. Credit to Graham for implementing a defense that confuses the opposition. Edge rushers are in high demand in this league. Hence, why they get paid so well. When you have them it gives your defense a chance to compete with the elite teams. Look throughout the league, the top defenses all have talent at the position. Our defense would take the next step if we could get an elite edge rusher. No I am describing LW. And your right those types of players do not grow on trees. Making Williams more valuable than a 5 sack edge rusher every day of the week. Funny, I was thinking that when reading it as well |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 12:35:36 GMT -5
No I am describing LW. And your right those types of players do not grow on trees. Making Williams more valuable than a 5 sack edge rusher every day of the week. Who’s this 5 sack edge rusher you speak of? Are you talking about Lawson? Because like I said, if he stays healthy and in the right system he can put sacks on the board. Remember about Williams, he was moved all over the line last year. He played the 5 and 6 tech a lot last year. Credit to Graham, he didn’t stick his best player in one spot. He moved him around and it benefited Williams. So let me get this straight .You want to bring in a 5.5 sack player hoping he fits the system( FYI :Lawson played all 16 games.723 defensive snaps). So I don't get the whole stay healthy comment . And let Williams walk. Who has proven he fits the system. Really? |
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 18, 2021 12:45:58 GMT -5
Who’s this 5 sack edge rusher you speak of? Are you talking about Lawson? Because like I said, if he stays healthy and in the right system he can put sacks on the board. Remember about Williams, he was moved all over the line last year. He played the 5 and 6 tech a lot last year. Credit to Graham, he didn’t stick his best player in one spot. He moved him around and it benefited Williams. So let me get this straight .You want to bring in a 5.5 sack player hoping he fits the system( FYI :Lawson played all 16 games.723 defensive snaps). So I don't get the whole stay healthy comment . And let Williams walk. Who has proven he fits the system. Really? I’ve said none of that. How you got that is a mystery.. I’ve said, again.. That Lawson would be our best edge rusher.. Fact. I said, having a complimentary edge rusher to pair with Williams would benefit him. Another fact. You on the other hand think that all interior lineman who generates pressure is more valuable. Unfortunately, Donald plays for the Rams. Williams is not Donald, and your encyclopedia stats will not dispute that. Williams played all over the line, there was not a game last year where Graham didn’t move him around. To Williams credit he played his best football due to it. If you’re trying to discredit the edge rusher position as not as valuable as interior lineman most teams if not all would disagree with you. The most current super bowl champions are laughing as we speak. |
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 18, 2021 12:50:58 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, didn't Lawson had injury concerns coming into the NFL as well? Something to do with his shoulder. Pretty sure he had to sit out his whole rookie season with it. I remember him being a really good prospect coming out, but sounds like this guys body has been failing him. I can see the interest, but personally its too big of an injury bug for me. In 2017 he played all 16, 2018 he played 8 games and 2019 he played 12, and last year he played all 16. Upon DEEPER research, he missed 2014 due to a torn ACL and hip fracture, then 2018 he only played 8 games due to a torn ACL, good for him it wasn't the same one he tore in college. He did seem to bounce back pretty well WOW, had no idea he had such an injury history |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 12:51:51 GMT -5
So let me get this straight .You want to bring in a 5.5 sack player hoping he fits the system( FYI :Lawson played all 16 games.723 defensive snaps). So I don't get the whole stay healthy comment . And let Williams walk. Who has proven he fits the system. Really? I’ve said none of that. How you got that is a mystery.. I’ve said, again.. That Lawson would be our best edge rusher.. Fact. I said, having a complimentary edge rusher to pair with Williams would benefit him. Another fact. You on the other hand think that all interior lineman who generates pressure is more valuable. Unfortunately, Donald plays for the Rams. Williams is not Donald, and your encyclopedia stats will not dispute that. Williams played all over the line, there was not a game last year where Graham didn’t move him around. To Williams credit he played his best football due to it. If you’re trying to discredit the edge rusher position as not as valuable as interior lineman most teams if not all would disagree with you. The most current super bowl champions are laughing as we speak. So if Williams is not walking .Where is the money to pay Lawson? Are you saying a 11.5 sack DT is not as valuable as a 5.5 sack edge rusher. Really? Please explain that logic? |
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 18, 2021 13:08:19 GMT -5
I’ve said none of that. How you got that is a mystery.. I’ve said, again.. That Lawson would be our best edge rusher.. Fact. I said, having a complimentary edge rusher to pair with Williams would benefit him. Another fact. You on the other hand think that all interior lineman who generates pressure is more valuable. Unfortunately, Donald plays for the Rams. Williams is not Donald, and your encyclopedia stats will not dispute that. Williams played all over the line, there was not a game last year where Graham didn’t move him around. To Williams credit he played his best football due to it. If you’re trying to discredit the edge rusher position as not as valuable as interior lineman most teams if not all would disagree with you. The most current super bowl champions are laughing as we speak. So if Williams is not walking .Where is the money to pay Lawson? Are you saying a 11.5 sack DT is not as valuable as a 5.5 sack edge rusher. Really? Please explain that logic? “Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him.” Where do you see me saying I would pay him and let Williams walk? This topic has nothing to do with Williams, the only fact he was brought up is that it would benefit him tremendously. An edge rusher has always been in high regard over an interior lineman. Hence, why they get paid so much. The Aaron Donald’s and Chris Jones of the league are hard to come by.. |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 13:14:30 GMT -5
So if Williams is not walking .Where is the money to pay Lawson? Are you saying a 11.5 sack DT is not as valuable as a 5.5 sack edge rusher. Really? Please explain that logic? “Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him.” Where do you see me saying I would pay him and let Williams walk? This topic has nothing to do with Williams, the only fact he was brought up is that it would benefit him tremendously. An edge rusher has always been in high defense over an interior lineman. Hence, why they get paid so much. The Aaron Donald’s and Chris Jones of the league are hard to come by.. Money does not grow on trees . It looks like we do not have the money for Williams and Thomlinson. (I hope I am wrong) Who is walking for the Lawson? What do you think a he is worth? This topic has everything to do with Williams and Thomlinson because it is about available cap space. |
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 18, 2021 13:46:00 GMT -5
“Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him.” Where do you see me saying I would pay him and let Williams walk? This topic has nothing to do with Williams, the only fact he was brought up is that it would benefit him tremendously. An edge rusher has always been in high defense over an interior lineman. Hence, why they get paid so much. The Aaron Donald’s and Chris Jones of the league are hard to come by.. Money does not grow on trees . It looks like we do not have the money for Williams and Thomlinson. (I hope I am wrong) Who is walking for the Lawson? What do you think a he is worth? This topic has everything to do with Williams and Thomlinson because it is about available cap space. I created the post and it has nothing to do with Williams or Tomlinson |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 13:47:48 GMT -5
Money does not grow on trees . It looks like we do not have the money for Williams and Thomlinson. (I hope I am wrong) Who is walking for the Lawson? What do you think a he is worth? This topic has everything to do with Williams and Thomlinson because it is about available cap space. I created the post and it has nothing to do with Williams or Tomlinson How does it not? If we sing him ? How do we sing one or both of them? There are only so many pennies in the piggy bank. It has a direct impact on negations on both of them. |
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 18, 2021 13:55:52 GMT -5
I created the post and it has nothing to do with Williams or Tomlinson How does it not? If we sing him ? How do we sing one or both of them? There are only so many pennies in the piggy bank. It has a direct impact on negations on both of them. Umm because this was originally created to see how people feel about him being a possible cheaper end free agent signing. Not EVERY possible free agent has to do with LW. If it comes down to him or LW, we have to go LW, he's our best defensive player outside of Bradbury. I'm sure we will free up money by releasing a few dead weight players to sign Williams. Hopefully we free up enough to also re-sign Tomlinson as well |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 13:58:19 GMT -5
How does it not? If we sing him ? How do we sing one or both of them? There are only so many pennies in the piggy bank. It has a direct impact on negations on both of them. Umm because this was originally created to see how people feel about him being a possible cheaper end free agent signing. Not EVERY possible free agent has to do with LW. If it comes down to him or LW, we have to go LW, he's our best defensive player outside of Bradbury. I'm sure we will free up money by releasing a few dead weight players to sign Williams. Hopefully we free up enough to also re-sign Tomlinson as well I would like to see money for Gallman also .But I doubt it. |
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 18, 2021 14:03:58 GMT -5
Umm because this was originally created to see how people feel about him being a possible cheaper end free agent signing. Not EVERY possible free agent has to do with LW. If it comes down to him or LW, we have to go LW, he's our best defensive player outside of Bradbury. I'm sure we will free up money by releasing a few dead weight players to sign Williams. Hopefully we free up enough to also re-sign Tomlinson as well I would like to see money for Gallman also .But I doubt it. What do u think he will warrant?? I dont think he's gonna get #1 back money, then again I don't know shit, LOL |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 14:08:16 GMT -5
I would like to see money for Gallman also .But I doubt it. What do u think he will warrant?? I dont think he's gonna get #1 back money, then again I don't know shit, LOL I am a penny pitcher so 3 years 10 million 4 guaranteed. |
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Post by bavarobeast on Feb 18, 2021 15:24:51 GMT -5
Saw him a lot at Auburn. He was a really good player. Attack kind of guy. I haven’t heard much since he went to the NFL. I pretty much only follow the Giants.
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 18, 2021 15:58:26 GMT -5
“Depending on the contract I would take a flyer on him.” Where do you see me saying I would pay him and let Williams walk? This topic has nothing to do with Williams, the only fact he was brought up is that it would benefit him tremendously. An edge rusher has always been in high defense over an interior lineman. Hence, why they get paid so much. The Aaron Donald’s and Chris Jones of the league are hard to come by.. Money does not grow on trees . It looks like we do not have the money for Williams and Thomlinson. (I hope I am wrong) Who is walking for the Lawson? What do you think a he is worth? This topic has everything to do with Williams and Thomlinson because it is about available cap space. I’ve been saying that all offseason and last year. To retain Williams and Tomlinson is a long.. long shot. Only way I see it happening is if the Giants franchise one and resign the other. Even that would be difficult to do. But back to the topic at hand, I don’t know what Lawson would command in the open market. Once the top edge rushers come off the board we can get a better understanding of what money these guys want. |
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Post by TEM on Feb 18, 2021 16:23:58 GMT -5
Money does not grow on trees . It looks like we do not have the money for Williams and Thomlinson. (I hope I am wrong) Who is walking for the Lawson? What do you think a he is worth? This topic has everything to do with Williams and Thomlinson because it is about available cap space. I’ve been saying that all offseason and last year. To retain Williams and Tomlinson is a long.. long shot. Only way I see it happening is if the Giants franchise one and resign the other. Even that would be difficult to do. But back to the topic at hand, I don’t know what Lawson would command in the open market. Once the top edge rushers come off the board we can get a better understanding of what money these guys want. I agree with all of your points. |
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Post by TheAussieGiant on Feb 18, 2021 20:20:54 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, didn't Lawson had injury concerns coming into the NFL as well? Something to do with his shoulder. Pretty sure he had to sit out his whole rookie season with it. I remember him being a really good prospect coming out, but sounds like this guys body has been failing him. I can see the interest, but personally its too big of an injury bug for me. In 2017 he played all 16, 2018 he played 8 games and 2019 he played 12, and last year he played all 16. Upon DEEPER research, he missed 2014 due to a torn ACL and hip fracture, then 2018 he only played 8 games due to a torn ACL, good for him it wasn't the same one he tore in college. He did seem to bounce back pretty well WOW, had no idea he had such an injury history I had a look too, I was rolling shaq lawson's and carl lawson's injuries into the same player |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 18, 2021 22:06:28 GMT -5
I would like to see money for Gallman also .But I doubt it. What do u think he will warrant?? I dont think he's gonna get #1 back money, then again I don't know shit, LOL Gallman is not getting big money there are a number of FA RB's in the same boat as him. I believe Conners from Pitt. will be one of the higher paid RB's that are FA. And he shouldn't be anymore than 6 mil tops. Could be half that much imho. Though I must admit there are probably a whole lot of RB FA's that I'm not aware of right now. |
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Post by Blue Hulk on Feb 22, 2021 16:28:38 GMT -5
I liked him coming out of auburn
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 22, 2021 19:05:21 GMT -5
Why did I confuse him with Carl Nassib?
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