rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
|
Post by rbe40 on Apr 5, 2021 9:44:48 GMT -5
3 years ago when Gettleman became GM, I told you that the Giants would treat EDGE as the least important position on the entire team. Literally every other position on D (CB, S, ILB, IDL) would take priority over OLB. Gettleman traded EDGE JPP and Vernon the moment he got here.
Over the last 3 years, the Giants have proven me 100% correct on this. In this 3-4 Blitz Amoeba defense, the EDGE guys (3-4 OLBs) are not very important. Their job is solely to contain - both the RB and QB; not get up the field and pursue sacks. That is simply not their role. That is why the Giants have settled for the Markus Goldens, the Kyler Fackrells, and the Ryan Andersons of the world - that EDGE position doesn't matter much in the context of this scheme.
"Rushing the QB" in this scheme = Contain the QB, and compress the pocket around him by squeezing gaps. EDGE (3-4 OLBs) are a luxury, not a necessity.
Leonard Williams is the premiere Pass Rusher in this defense. He has very very strict Contain Rush duties, and must stay in the QB's line of sight on every pass-rush rep, he can never wind up past the QB on any rep.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Apr 5, 2021 11:38:29 GMT -5
I feel this defense can break into the top 10, without acquiring a Edge guy this particular off season. And with the secondary now vet solidified, it would seem there will be more opportunities for the Safeties to be used for both pass rush and spying. None of this means Edge will be ignored, in the future.
The offense is really where we need attention still concentrated. Not sure where these FA acquisitions put us currently, and we did loose a good vet lineman. Seems we're still in the bottom third offensively, with a promising young QB's status on the line. This draft has to balance the talent on both sides of the ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Apr 5, 2021 12:52:46 GMT -5
More the reason to see what we got with Carter and Ximines.
A mid round pass rushing prospect with alot of potential could be our best bet with the most value
|
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2021 14:56:26 GMT -5
More the reason to see what we got with Carter and Ximines. A mid round pass rushing prospect with alot of potential could be our best bet with the most value Again We could also be buyers around week 6 when teams start to sell ofr players as well |
|
|
|
Post by piddy283 on Apr 5, 2021 22:05:32 GMT -5
3 years ago when Gettleman became GM, I told you that the Giants would treat EDGE as the least important position on the entire team. Literally every other position on D (CB, S, ILB, IDL) would take priority over OLB. Gettleman traded EDGE JPP and Vernon the moment he got here. Over the last 3 years, the Giants have proven me 100% correct on this. In this 3-4 Blitz Amoeba defense, the EDGE guys (3-4 OLBs) are not very important. Their job is solely to contain - both the RB and QB; not get up the field and pursue sacks. That is simply not their role. That is why the Giants have settled for the Markus Goldens, the Kyler Fackrells, and the Ryan Andersons of the world - that EDGE position doesn't matter much in the context of this scheme. "Rushing the QB" in this scheme = Contain the QB, and compress the pocket around him by squeezing gaps. EDGE (3-4 OLBs) are a luxury, not a necessity. Leonard Williams is the premiere Pass Rusher in this defense. He has very very strict Contain Rush duties, and must stay in the QB's line of sight on every pass-rush rep, he can never wind up past the QB on any rep. I remember hearing similar things when we hired our last two DC's. Both apparently didn't put much emphasis on the traditional "Edge" position. Pressure was based on scheme, and would come from all over the field. That said, a legit Edge player can only help the defense. I'm not head over heels for any Edge player at #11 this year, so I'm hoping we go in another direction in Rd1, but someone who can stretch the OL for players like Williams and Dex would do wonders. I've been a fan of Patrick Jones ll, and am liking what I'm seeing from Joe Tryon. Both should be available in Rd2, maybe later. |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2021 6:46:45 GMT -5
This class is bad for edge rusher. Late 2nd 3rd at best.
|
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Apr 6, 2021 8:53:15 GMT -5
in the NFL most QBs will be successful if given enough time in the pocket, I feel every team has to have someone who can disrupt the QB with pressure, we should get the best pass rusher available in round 1
|
|
te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,982
|
Post by te88 on Apr 6, 2021 11:55:00 GMT -5
I actually agree.
The pass rush doesn’t come from the OLBs in this front.
|
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2021 13:05:49 GMT -5
in the NFL most QBs will be successful if given enough time in the pocket, I feel every team has to have someone who can disrupt the QB with pressure, we should get the best pass rusher available in round 1 So basically you want us to reach for a very flawed prospect at 11 that has a high probability of busting and potentially passing a much better football player that will probably still he there (remember we kinda need more O line and even another playmaker )..especially considering thee is not any drop off between the alleged top guys and guys we can get day 2 |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Apr 6, 2021 15:16:38 GMT -5
in the NFL most QBs will be successful if given enough time in the pocket, I feel every team has to have someone who can disrupt the QB with pressure, we should get the best pass rusher available in round 1 So basically you want us to reach for a very flawed prospect at 11 that has a high probability of busting and potentially passing a much better football player that will probably still he there (remember we kinda need more O line and even another playmaker )..especially considering thee is not any drop off between the alleged top guys and guys we can get day 2 I don't recall saying anything like that... |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2021 16:10:15 GMT -5
So basically you want us to reach for a very flawed prospect at 11 that has a high probability of busting and potentially passing a much better football player that will probably still he there (remember we kinda need more O line and even another playmaker )..especially considering thee is not any drop off between the alleged top guys and guys we can get day 2 I don't recall saying anything like that... Well saying you want the best pass rusher in tbe 1st round 8s basifly saying this |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Apr 6, 2021 16:16:08 GMT -5
I don't recall saying anything like that... Well saying you want the best pass rusher in tbe 1st round 8s basifly saying this I'm saying that I want the best pass rusher available because I remember whats been wrong with our defense for the last few years, opposing QBs have been able to eat a sandwich while waiting for some one to get open... |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 6, 2021 16:20:30 GMT -5
Well saying you want the best pass rusher in tbe 1st round 8s basifly saying this I'm saying that I want the best pass rusher available because I remember whats been wrong with our defense for the last few years, opposing QBs have been able to eat a sandwich while waiting for some one to get open... The inconvenient truth is that none of these pass rushers are worth the 11th overall pick..not even close You don't reach for bad value,ever |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 6, 2021 16:21:35 GMT -5
Well saying you want the best pass rusher in tbe 1st round 8s basifly saying this I'm saying that I want the best pass rusher available because I remember whats been wrong with our defense for the last few years, opposing QBs have been able to eat a sandwich while waiting for some one to get open... Are you saying the Giants should not take the best player on their board at the time they pick, but the best edge rusher? You do realize that is a self imposed lowering in the draft. Example : The FO has edge rusher they graded as pick 25 . They take him with the 11 pick. In reality they let 14 more teams pick a head of them by making that choice. |
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on Apr 7, 2021 9:01:37 GMT -5
I'm saying that I want the best pass rusher available because I remember whats been wrong with our defense for the last few years, opposing QBs have been able to eat a sandwich while waiting for some one to get open... Are you saying the Giants should not take the best player on their board at the time they pick, but the best edge rusher? You do realize that is a self imposed lowering in the draft. Example : The FO has edge rusher they graded as pick 25 . They take him with the 11 pick. In reality they let 14 more teams pick a head of them by making that choice. I know my opinion doesn't match the conventional thinking on this but I feel when it comes down to the mid first round the values get to be pretty close and if we don't get an edge rusher there then we simply have to roll the dice in the later rounds, not very scientific I know... |
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Apr 7, 2021 12:14:45 GMT -5
Are you saying the Giants should not take the best player on their board at the time they pick, but the best edge rusher? You do realize that is a self imposed lowering in the draft. Example : The FO has edge rusher they graded as pick 25 . They take him with the 11 pick. In reality they let 14 more teams pick a head of them by making that choice. I know my opinion doesn't match the conventional thinking on this but I feel when it comes down to the mid first round the values get to be pretty close and if we don't get an edge rusher there then we simply have to roll the dice in the later rounds, not very scientific I know... Which guy do you want, the one that only has success rushing the passer from the NT spot and only played 1 season, or the guy who isnt a successful pass rusher and whos best season rushing the passer was where he posted a whopping 6 sacks. Give me someone like Pat Jones in the 4th |
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Apr 7, 2021 12:41:37 GMT -5
I know my opinion doesn't match the conventional thinking on this but I feel when it comes down to the mid first round the values get to be pretty close and if we don't get an edge rusher there then we simply have to roll the dice in the later rounds, not very scientific I know... Which guy do you want, the one that only has success rushing the passer from the NT spot and only played 1 season, or the guy who isnt a successful pass rusher and whos best season rushing the passer was where he posted a whopping 6 sacks. Give me someone like Pat Jones in the 4th Or Perkins from Oklahoma |
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Apr 7, 2021 16:30:17 GMT -5
Are you saying the Giants should not take the best player on their board at the time they pick, but the best edge rusher? You do realize that is a self imposed lowering in the draft. Example : The FO has edge rusher they graded as pick 25 . They take him with the 11 pick. In reality they let 14 more teams pick a head of them by making that choice. I know my opinion doesn't match the conventional thinking on this but I feel when it comes down to the mid first round the values get to be pretty close and if we don't get an edge rusher there then we simply have to roll the dice in the later rounds, not very scientific I know... I agree it is unconventional but that is not the way any team operates with their draft picks. |
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 7, 2021 19:36:02 GMT -5
Which guy do you want, the one that only has success rushing the passer from the NT spot and only played 1 season, or the guy who isnt a successful pass rusher and whos best season rushing the passer was where he posted a whopping 6 sacks. Give me someone like Pat Jones in the 4th Or Perkins from Oklahoma I think we would have to get Perkins with our 2nd rd pick. Don't think he makes it out of 2nd. Either Perkins or Osassi of Texas could be there with the 42nd pick if were still thinking pass rush at this point. We could be looking OL as well. |
|
|
|
Post by allnygin on Apr 8, 2021 9:49:52 GMT -5
Obviously having a really good edge rusher makes any defense better, that said, Grahmn is pretty good at getting guys to the QB even without that. Last year was a good example.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kase1 on Apr 8, 2021 12:22:39 GMT -5
Which guy do you want, the one that only has success rushing the passer from the NT spot and only played 1 season, or the guy who isnt a successful pass rusher and whos best season rushing the passer was where he posted a whopping 6 sacks. Give me someone like Pat Jones in the 4th Or Perkins from Oklahoma Perkins and Ossai from Tx are both growing on me, which isnt saying much because I dont want either of them until the 3rd and they're most likely both going to be gone by then |
|
|
|
Post by IrishMike on Apr 8, 2021 20:15:35 GMT -5
It is not just this Defense it is the NFL. The entire NFL is doing everything they can to generate pressure from the inside positions now. They have the shortest path to the QB. OGs are beginning to get paid much closer to OTs. It is no longer OGs block big bruising run stuffer DTs. Now they are fending off Aaron Donald, Buckner and Williams. Many pass rushers take on that Justin Tuck role where they move inside on passing downs.
Edge isn't important. Creating pressure on the QB is. How that gets done differs in many ways. With that said we still need help with pass rush. There were many times last year we simply could not create pressure. Williams will need help. Maybe our edge guys coming off injury can help if set up by the game plan.
|
|
rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
|
Post by rbe40 on Apr 17, 2021 11:10:41 GMT -5
Can safely rule out EDGE at #11
1) Not a need at all
2) Value is horrible, not even close
Eliminate all the EDGE prospects around #11 - Giants will be avoiding all of them. That narrows it down to:
2 Alabama WRs
Slater
Parsons
The Giants will select 1 of the above 4.
|
|
rbe40
Special Teams
Posts: 800
|
Post by rbe40 on Apr 23, 2021 9:40:31 GMT -5
Bump
|
|
