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Post by allnygin on Apr 23, 2021 21:03:39 GMT -5
May have just fixed their oline in one offseason.. and here we are a decade later  |
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Post by vinnie on Apr 23, 2021 21:05:33 GMT -5
The Chiefs know the definition of priority, Dave Gettleman doesn’t.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 23, 2021 21:24:10 GMT -5
KC has signed 2 strong veterans OT Brown and G Thuney both all pro type players.
They may not be finished wheeling and dealing. They have 2 2nd rd picks if they want to trade one of them or some combo for another OT.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 23, 2021 22:22:34 GMT -5
The Chiefs know the definition of priority, Dave Gettleman doesn’t. Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2021 22:30:04 GMT -5
KC had one thing to do the OL they have everything else maybe need a little help on D. They didn't have to get QB/ RB/ DL/ LB /CB / FS plus depth. It is a joke it has taken this long. In 3 years big picture this team is night and day from the 2017 team. The main reason the team was an empty shell is because they had been working on the OL since 2013 and wiffed on the first rebuild with Flowers Pugh Richberg Jerry Hart / Newhouse . while they were busy missing OL picks the rest of the team was falling apart, Hopefully they are on the right track now
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 23, 2021 22:33:35 GMT -5
The Chiefs know the definition of priority, Dave Gettleman doesn’t. Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. Just posted this it should redone by now or at least good enough they got a lot done with trades draft picks and free agency the last 3 years. It looked like they were ready to turn the corner last year with young sustainable team, This draft is big they need to have another like the last couple. |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 24, 2021 0:44:40 GMT -5
The Chiefs know the definition of priority, Dave Gettleman doesn’t. Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. He had the best CB in the division, one of the best WR's in the NFL, an all pro safety, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, (who won another SB in 2020) and some young talent like Devon Kennard, Dalvin Tomlinson and BJ Goodson. They also had Sterling Shepard, Olivier Vernon and Snacks.
They were a team one year removed from 11-5. Let's be careful when we describe the team as devoid of talent.
He thought he could win with a washed up QB....That was completely on him. He made his decisions accordingly. He completely misread our situation.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 24, 2021 7:18:44 GMT -5
KC gave up their 1st round pick for Brown because they can afford to
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2021 7:55:22 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. He had the best CB in the division, one of the best WR's in the NFL, an all pro safety, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, (who won another SB in 2020) and some young talent like Devon Kennard, Dalvin Tomlinson and BJ Goodson. They also had Sterling Shepard, Olivier Vernon and Snacks.
They were a team one year removed from 11-5. Let's be careful when we describe the team as devoid of talent.
He thought he could win with a washed up QB....That was completely on him. He made his decisions accordingly. He completely misread our situation.
You got it backwards the guys that have proven to be washed up and were correct to send packing were OV and Snacks, who by the way was the best CB in the division Shep and Tomlinson were kept because they were the only ones worth keeping, Kennard and Goodson are just guys they won't kill you but your not winning because of them. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2021 7:56:35 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. May I add not with a first year HC. Good point Red they have one of the top 3 coaches in the league. |
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Post by TEM on Apr 24, 2021 7:59:31 GMT -5
Dave gave up a 3rd and a 5th for LW who was in the last year of his contract ( Horrible trade) Not what I think . But there were more than a few that conveyed openly. It was a bad trade because it gave Williams an unfair advantage going into contract negations.
KC give up a 1st, 3rd a 4th and a 5th . For Brown ( last year of his contract) a 2nd and a 6th
So KC basically 1st, 3rd, 4th, and a 5th, for a 2nd ,6th and a rental.
So in context how is this not a horrible deal also?
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2021 8:09:01 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. Just posted this it should redone by now or at least good enough they got a lot done with trades draft picks and free agency the last 3 years. It looked like they were ready to turn the corner last year with young sustainable team, This draft is big they need to have another like the last couple. Agreed. I'll continue to say it, but DG & Friends didn't take over a team in rebuild mode. They took over a team that needed to be torn down first. There was a lack of talent at nearly every position, there was a lack of leadership, there was a lack of financial flexibility, and there was an aging QB who couldn't get out of his own way. Any realistic fan should've known we wouldn't compete for 2-3 years. By the end of last off-season we had completed the tear down, and were able to dip our toe in the rebuild waters by bringing in some key FA. We also found our next HC. Unfortunately for our young team and first time HC, COVID hit. There was no off-season. As any realistic fan would expect, we struggled out of the gate. However, we improved as the season went on. The improvement was noticeable and is very promising all things considered. The improvement is what fans should focus on. Now, coming into this off-season, we're in full go building mode. We acquired key players at key positions allowing us to approach the draft with arms wide open. We no longer have glaring needs all over the roster, just a few positions that need shoring up. As we stand today I think we compete for the NFCE. With another good draft from DG & Friends, I expect us to be favorites. Assuming we stay relatively healthy, we should expect good things this season as fans. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2021 8:09:25 GMT -5
If you can't admit this team was a huge mess from front office to coaching staff to infighting roster and 0 depth and a roster that would be depth in most other places, You are a delusional fan seeing something that just was not real, sorry this team was #32 of 32 teams bottom of the Barrel at least the Browns had a ton of picks 2 in the first 5 and cap room thats why the Giants were bottom of the Barrel they had 6 picks and 2 OLs under contract and 1 LB with 20 mill to fill out the roster they were mismanaged big time. They were broke and needed fixing three years later they are in a better place.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2021 8:13:50 GMT -5
Dave Gettleman had to rebuild a team void of talent at nearly every position. The Chiefs had abundance of talent at nearly every position besides OL. The situations aren't the same. He had the best CB in the division, one of the best WR's in the NFL, an all pro safety, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, (who won another SB in 2020) and some young talent like Devon Kennard, Dalvin Tomlinson and BJ Goodson. They also had Sterling Shepard, Olivier Vernon and Snacks.
They were a team one year removed from 11-5. Let's be careful when we describe the team as devoid of talent.
He thought he could win with a washed up QB....That was completely on him. He made his decisions accordingly. He completely misread our situation.
Not for nothing, but besides JPP none of those guys you mention did anything once DG let them walk. Saying that, this is a prime example of the typical hindsight fans tend to lean on because the vast majority of people on this MB complained about JPP's lack of production and wanted him gone back then. Perhaps "void of talent" is a bit strong, but I don't think it's too far off. We needed to start from scratch. |
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2021 8:15:44 GMT -5
Dave gave up a 3rd and a 5th for LW who was in the last year of his contract ( Horrible trade) KC give up a 1st, 3rd a 4th and a 5th . For Brown ( last year of his contract) a 2nd and a 6th So KC basically 1st, 3rd, 4th, and a 5th, for a 2nd ,6th and a rental. So in context how is this not a horrible deal also? Because the GM's initials aren't DG. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2021 8:19:31 GMT -5
Dave gave up a 3rd and a 5th for LW who was in the last year of his contract ( Horrible trade) KC give up a 1st, 3rd a 4th and a 5th . For Brown ( last year of his contract) a 2nd and a 6th So KC basically 1st, 3rd, 4th, and a 5th, for a 2nd ,6th and a rental. So in context how is this not a horrible deal also? Because it wasn't Dave Gettlemen lol. If you are of the belief that Dave inherited a middle of the road roster upon arrival you are delusional and we seem to have plenty of that. People believing that Gettlemen sits on top of the Giants world and makes these roster decisions on his own. There is a big Judge influence on the roster now and there was a big Shurmur influence on the roster when he was here. The coordinators also have a ton of say along with Pettit and the scouts. Just like trading OBJ and letting Collins walk were correct moves the Williams trade was a good one from the start but the talking heads don't take back the stupid crap they spew. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 24, 2021 8:28:22 GMT -5
He had the best CB in the division, one of the best WR's in the NFL, an all pro safety, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, (who won another SB in 2020) and some young talent like Devon Kennard, Dalvin Tomlinson and BJ Goodson. They also had Sterling Shepard, Olivier Vernon and Snacks.
They were a team one year removed from 11-5. Let's be careful when we describe the team as devoid of talent.
He thought he could win with a washed up QB....That was completely on him. He made his decisions accordingly. He completely misread our situation.
Not for nothing, but besides JPP none of those guys you mention did anything once DG let them walk. Saying that, this is a prime example of the typical hindsight fans tend to lean on because the vast majority of people on this MB complained about JPP's lack of production and wanted him gone back then. Perhaps "void of talent" is a bit strong, but I don't think it's too far off. We needed to start from scratch. JPP is a miracle, even him tho when he was here because of injury ran hot and cold I looked up every year he was here the the only consistent one was 2011. Example think 2014 he had like 12 or 14 sacks he had like 9 in 7 games the other 9 he was almost non existent this is how it went for him here . once he got to Tampa he was good but then broke his neck in car accident dude comes back and keeps playing, Giants were trying to get younger which was the right thing to do they got what they got, the organization isn't always right none are, but this case at least they got something for an aging injury prone dude or shall we say a guy with some bad luck. |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 24, 2021 8:47:22 GMT -5
He had the best CB in the division, one of the best WR's in the NFL, an all pro safety, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, (who won another SB in 2020) and some young talent like Devon Kennard, Dalvin Tomlinson and BJ Goodson. They also had Sterling Shepard, Olivier Vernon and Snacks.
They were a team one year removed from 11-5. Let's be careful when we describe the team as devoid of talent.
He thought he could win with a washed up QB....That was completely on him. He made his decisions accordingly. He completely misread our situation.
Not for nothing, but besides JPP none of those guys you mention did anything once DG let them walk. Saying that, this is a prime example of the typical hindsight fans tend to lean on because the vast majority of people on this MB complained about JPP's lack of production and wanted him gone back then. Perhaps "void of talent" is a bit strong, but I don't think it's too far off. We needed to start from scratch. Andy Reid was hired to a 2-14 team. Immediately wen 11-5 and made the playoffs. The Browns were 1-31 the same time Dave took over here. They went 11-5 last year and won a playoff game. The Dolphins were a laughing stock. Supposedly tanking on purpose. They went 11-5 the very next year.
Whenever a HC or GM is fired and new people come in, the team is, by definition in terrible condition....Yet folks seem to want to give Dave special consideration.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 24, 2021 9:47:20 GMT -5
KC gave up their 1st round pick for Brown because they can afford to Correct. Brown most likely will be better than anyone they draft with the 31st pick. Brown will cost them more next year as he moves to his 2nd contract. They can fit him in their cap easy. And they already worked Thuney into their cap as a FA Guard this year. KC is in win mode now, not building for the future. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 24, 2021 9:56:12 GMT -5
Dave gave up a 3rd and a 5th for LW who was in the last year of his contract ( Horrible trade) Not what I think . But there were more than a few that conveyed openly. It was a bad trade because it gave Williams an unfair advantage going into contract negations. KC give up a 1st, 3rd a 4th and a 5th . For Brown ( last year of his contract) a 2nd and a 6th So KC basically 1st, 3rd, 4th, and a 5th, for a 2nd ,6th and a rental. So in context how is this not a horrible deal also? Tem, Brown is no rental he is a long term fix. They are re signing him to a 4 -5 year deal. I promise you. Not giving all that up for a rental. Brown is a mauler he will be at least as good as Fisher was if not better. Young and healthy. He came out a year early he's only 25. The only reason the Ravens traded him was his insistence to play LT. The Ravens just signed Stanley at LT last year to a 5 year deal for big money. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 24, 2021 10:04:51 GMT -5
KC has signed 2 strong veterans OT Brown and G Thuney both all pro type players. They may not be finished wheeling and dealing. They have 2 2nd rd picks if they want to trade one of them or some combo for another OT. Or..... |
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 24, 2021 10:08:49 GMT -5
Not for nothing, but besides JPP none of those guys you mention did anything once DG let them walk. Saying that, this is a prime example of the typical hindsight fans tend to lean on because the vast majority of people on this MB complained about JPP's lack of production and wanted him gone back then. Perhaps "void of talent" is a bit strong, but I don't think it's too far off. We needed to start from scratch. Andy Reid was hired to a 2-14 team. Immediately wen 11-5 and made the playoffs. The Browns were 1-31 the same time Dave took over here. They went 11-5 last year and won a playoff game. The Dolphins were a laughing stock. Supposedly tanking on purpose. They went 11-5 the very next year.
Whenever a HC or GM is fired and new people come in, the team is, by definition in terrible condition....Yet folks seem to want to give Dave special consideration.
In 2012 (pre Reid) the starting QB's were Brady Quinn and Matt Cassel. In 2013 (Reid's first year) the starting QB was Alex Smith. One of the greatest HC's of all-time and a very good QB. That's going to make any team better. The Browns are actually fairly similar to our rebuild, but they didn't have an Eli Manning on their roster to contend with. In 2017 (pre Mayfield), the Browns starting QB was someone named Deshone Kizer. In 2018 they drafted Mayfield who went to the playoffs in his 3rd year. I expect similar results from DJ in his 3rd year. The Dolphins are also in a very similar situation. They started over, they got themselves an up and coming HC, and they made some noise going into year two of their new system. The Giants now have a young, strong nucleus in place. They have a young QB going into his 3rd year, and 2nd year in the same system The 2nd year coaching staff will have an off-season to work with and properly train the players for the first time. The young players, particularly on the OL, showed noticeable improvement last season and should only get better. Rarely are situations in the NFL "apples to apples." Some teams are a QB away from being competitive, some teams are a coaching staff away, some need defensive help, and some need to start over. The Giants having to start over, while also having to deal with Eli, made the situation a bit different than most. I'm an outlier when it comes to DG, and I admit he's far from perfect, but we're on track with what I expected coming in. To continue with those expectations, I believe everyone on this MB will be partying later this year when we make the playoffs.  |
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 24, 2021 10:12:32 GMT -5
Andy Reid was hired to a 2-14 team. Immediately wen 11-5 and made the playoffs. The Browns were 1-31 the same time Dave took over here. They went 11-5 last year and won a playoff game. The Dolphins were a laughing stock. Supposedly tanking on purpose. They went 11-5 the very next year.
Whenever a HC or GM is fired and new people come in, the team is, by definition in terrible condition....Yet folks seem to want to give Dave special consideration.
In 2012 (pre Reid) the starting QB's were Brady Quinn and Matt Cassel. In 2013 (Reid's first year) the starting QB was Alex Smith. One of the greatest QB's of all-time and a very good QB. That's going to make any team better. The Browns are actually fairly similar to our rebuild, but they didn't have an Eli Manning on their roster to contend with. In 2017 (pre Mayfield), the Browns starting QB was someone named Deshone Kizer. In 2018 they drafted Mayfield who went to the playoffs in his 3rd year. I expect similar results from DJ in his 3rd year. The Dolphins are also in a very similar situation. They started over, they got themselves an up and coming HC, and they made some noise going into year two of their new system. The Giants now have a young, strong nucleus in place. They have a young QB going into his 3rd year, and 2nd year in the same system The 2nd year coaching staff will have an off-season to work with and properly train the players for the first time. The young players, particularly on the OL, showed noticeable improvement last season and should only get better. Rarely are situations in the NFL "apples to apples." Some teams are a QB away from being competitive, some teams are a coaching staff away, some need defensive help, and some need to start over. The Giants having to start over, while also having to deal with Eli, made the situation a bit different than most. I'm an outlier when it comes to DG, and I admit he's far from perfect, but we're on track with what I expected coming in. To continue with those expectations, I believe everyone on this MB will be partying later this year when we make the playoffs. We had Eli Manning wrapped around our neck and Dave was delusional to believe that was a good thing.
Ben McAdoo was a bad HC, but he was right about Eli. He was done two years before he was permanently benched.
That was on Dave. He delayed our rebuild.
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Post by TEM on Apr 24, 2021 10:13:33 GMT -5
Dave gave up a 3rd and a 5th for LW who was in the last year of his contract ( Horrible trade) Not what I think . But there were more than a few that conveyed openly. It was a bad trade because it gave Williams an unfair advantage going into contract negations. KC give up a 1st, 3rd a 4th and a 5th . For Brown ( last year of his contract) a 2nd and a 6th So KC basically 1st, 3rd, 4th, and a 5th, for a 2nd ,6th and a rental. So in context how is this not a horrible deal also? Tem, Brown is no rental he is a long term fix. They are re signing him to a 4 -5 year deaI promise you. Not giving all that up for a rental. Brown is a mauler he will be at least as good as Fisher was if not better. Young and healthy. He came out a year early he's only 25. The only reason the Ravens traded him was his insistence to play LT. The Ravens just signed Stanley at LT last year to a 5 year deal for big money. So why was LW treated as a rental or Williams has the Giants by the balls by some? Williams wasn't a considered a long term fix ? I think you missed the point I was making. How was the LW situation diffrent? That is the root of my point. LW deal was considered by some a bad trade for the Giants because the picks were too much to give up for a player in a contract year. How is this dissimilar? |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 24, 2021 10:16:01 GMT -5
The rich get richer. While the poor (us) continue to throw shit at the wall.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 24, 2021 10:17:54 GMT -5
Tem, Brown is no rental he is a long term fix. They are re signing him to a 4 -5 year deal. I promise you. Not giving all that up for a rental. Brown is a mauler he will be at least as good as Fisher was if not better. Young and healthy. He came out a year early he's only 25. The only reason the Ravens traded him was his insistence to play LT. The Ravens just signed Stanley at LT last year to a 5 year deal for big money. So why was LW treated as a rental or Williams has the Giants by the balls by some? I think you missed the point i was making. How was the LW situation diffrent? That was considered by some a bad trade for the Giants. The Chiefs are a championship contender - you can make the argument that a move like this could be enough to bring another championship, so that even if it ends up being only short term the compensation lost could be worth it. We were a terrible team when we acquired LW, so he was never going to put us over the top. TBH though, I don’t like the move in either situation. Puts the team at the mercy of the player when negotiating an extension. |
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Post by TEM on Apr 24, 2021 10:22:42 GMT -5
So why was LW treated as a rental or Williams has the Giants by the balls by some? I think you missed the point i was making. How was the LW situation diffrent? That was considered by some a bad trade for the Giants. The Chiefs are a championship contender - you can make the argument that a move like this could be enough to bring another championship, even if it ends up being only short term the compensation lost could be worth it. We were a terrible team when we acquired LW, so he was never going to put us over the top. TBH though, I don’t like the move in either situation. Puts the team at the mercy of the player when negotiating an extension. I do not buy that argument. You refrain from improving your team because your "not a Championship contender". Is IMO a recipe for never winning. You last line is risk taking. No one have ever won sitting on the porch. |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 24, 2021 10:25:23 GMT -5
The Chiefs are a championship contender - you can make the argument that a move like this could be enough to bring another championship, even if it ends up being only short term the compensation lost could be worth it. We were a terrible team when we acquired LW, so he was never going to put us over the top. TBH though, I don’t like the move in either situation. Puts the team at the mercy of the player when negotiating an extension. I do not buy that argument. You refrain from improving your team because your "not a Championship contender". Is IMP a recipe for never winning. You could have improved your team by signing the guy in Free Agency (which would surely have cost less than the $21M a year contract we just gave him) without giving up the draft capital. |
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Post by TEM on Apr 24, 2021 10:36:15 GMT -5
I do not buy that argument. You refrain from improving your team because your "not a Championship contender". Is IMP a recipe for never winning. You could have improved your team by signing the guy in Free Agency (which would surely have cost less than the $21M a year contract we just gave him) without giving up the draft capital. But that is an assumption based upon a linear mind set. FA ( at least top ones) are never This , this, this and this and he his ours. It is seldom that black and white. Just take what we did with Adoree' Jackson and Kenny Golladay . They both had appointments with Other teams . One with the Ravens, the other with Philly. They never made it. That is why I believe it was a good trade because we could tag his A$$ if needed. And KC can do the same thing if needed. |
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Post by allnygin on Apr 24, 2021 11:11:48 GMT -5
You guys are missing the point. The chiefs have an abundance at every position bc they built their team well. The giants had some pretty decent offenses that were never able to perform bc of how bad the oline was. The chiefs fixed their situation in one offseason. The giants after 11 decided to squander any potential and let the oline deteriorate.. That fueled years of failed draft picks and FA busts at the OL positions that led to years of losing football... A decade later we're going into a season still unsure of the oline...
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