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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 27, 2021 13:34:34 GMT -5
watch? Why don’t I show you. Watch the packers-49ers, chiefs-ravens, cowboys-bucs, cowboys-chargers games to name a few “non giant” examples. The referees aren’t even trying anymore, how you gonna call phantom penalties in the biggest momentum shifters in these games ? Again, if you watch the above games in their entirety, you’ll hear the announcers/booth head refs say “idk what the referees were thinking there” in one shape or another…multiple times a game. Never been this bad. Goodell making up profits lost due to COVID. Every primetime game gonna be a last second FG? Lol Zebras can control any outcome they’d like. Believe what you want, I guess it’s “cool” to think something is a conspiracy theory when it’s molly whopping you weekly. Bad teams never get the calls for good reason, $$$ NY teams can lose every game for the next 5 years and still make the NFL more than most franchises due to their media/market. So how does goodell profit off that? Use the NY teams as whipping boys to generate profit from poverty franchises like the Atlanta Falcons 😂 Not just primetime, it happened in so many games yesterday. Raiders, Ravens. I hate it. But this is what the NFL wants. But I don't know what other bad calls were made in those games. The Dallas/Chargers game was the biggest example I've seen in years Chargers are tbe LA stepchild to the Rams so they make the perfect jobber team to a prime team in these situations because of their market
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Post by idkaname on Sept 27, 2021 13:50:31 GMT -5
Not just primetime, it happened in so many games yesterday. Raiders, Ravens. I hate it. But this is what the NFL wants. But I don't know what other bad calls were made in those games. The Dallas/Chargers game was the biggest example I've seen in years Chargers are tbe LA stepchild to the Rams so they make the perfect jobber team to a prime team in these situations because of their market hahah on not just 1, but 2 go ahead TDs bogus calls, that one was bad. I use to be one those that chose to not believe but it’s getting worse to the point where I don’t even think the NFL cares anymore. Added the PI review for 1 year then made a claim that it wasn’t effective so they could rid it…it wasn’t effective because even the obvious PI penalties were being called “inconclusive”. It’s really a joke…it’s just greed aka Roger ****dell
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Post by Roosevelt on Sept 27, 2021 13:52:21 GMT -5
Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I was just answering the question. Although I did hear a former player or coach attribute Williams' drop off to not having Dalvin there.
DT was a rock, but the Giants are decent still against the run more then decent actually, the intangibles DT brought are missed many here cussed Gettlemen for letting Snacks go to give DT his shot it proved right he at that stage of their careers was a much better player. The Giants have excelled in drafting quality defensive tackles but don't value them enough to keep them. Snacks was an exception and he clearly wasn't right in the head.
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Post by giantlegacy on Sept 27, 2021 14:01:40 GMT -5
DT was a rock, but the Giants are decent still against the run more then decent actually, the intangibles DT brought are missed many here cussed Gettlemen for letting Snacks go to give DT his shot it proved right he at that stage of their careers was a much better player. The Giants have excelled in drafting quality defensive tackles but don't value them enough to keep them. Snacks was an exception and he clearly wasn't right in the head. This next draft has about 4 or 5 beasts inside I'm drooling over to add to what we have early... If Jones keeps showing he is the guy despite a horrible team record we could get the cream of the crop and a top o linemen with 2 potentially top 10 picks
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Post by idkaname on Sept 27, 2021 14:08:33 GMT -5
watch? Why don’t I show you. Watch the packers-49ers, chiefs-ravens, cowboys-bucs, cowboys-chargers games to name a few “non giant” examples. The referees aren’t even trying anymore, how you gonna call phantom penalties in the biggest momentum shifters in these games ? Again, if you watch the above games in their entirety, you’ll hear the announcers/booth head refs say “idk what the referees were thinking there” in one shape or another…multiple times a game. Never been this bad. Goodell making up profits lost due to COVID. Every primetime game gonna be a last second FG? Lol Zebras can control any outcome they’d like. Believe what you want, I guess it’s “cool” to think something is a conspiracy theory when it’s molly whopping you weekly. Bad teams never get the calls for good reason, $$$ NY teams can lose every game for the next 5 years and still make the NFL more than most franchises due to their media/market. So how does goodell profit off that? Use the NY teams as whipping boys to generate profit from poverty franchises like the Atlanta Falcons 😂 So the Giants have been the worst team in the NFL for five seasons now.... because of a Goodell-derived conspiracy executed through the officiating crews? If that's true, why would the refs call a horrible defensive pass interference call against ATL (on a pass to Golloday) that led to our only TD on the very next play? Lemme guess.... to try and make the fix not so obvious? Maybe you should check that casserole in the back of your fridge. what ? If you don’t think that was pass interference, you’re either an Eagles fan or a HUGE fan of Jonathan Vilma…who is clearly developing glaucoma
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 27, 2021 14:10:41 GMT -5
DT was a rock, but the Giants are decent still against the run more then decent actually, the intangibles DT brought are missed many here cussed Gettlemen for letting Snacks go to give DT his shot it proved right he at that stage of their careers was a much better player. The Giants have excelled in drafting quality defensive tackles but don't value them enough to keep them. Snacks was an exception and he clearly wasn't right in the head. I think the the wheels were starting to fall off he had a lot of wear and tear on him and it showed 2 years after the trade he was done agree they let some very talented DTs walk.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 27, 2021 14:18:05 GMT -5
The Giants have excelled in drafting quality defensive tackles but don't value them enough to keep them. Snacks was an exception and he clearly wasn't right in the head. I think the the wheels were starting to fall off he had a lot of wear and tear on him and it showed 2 years after the trade he was done agree they let some very talented DTs walk. It started with Cornelius Griffin, then Barry Cofield, Linval Joseph, Johnathan Hankins, and last Dalvin Tomlinson. It’s a revolving door at the position.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 27, 2021 14:25:29 GMT -5
I think the the wheels were starting to fall off he had a lot of wear and tear on him and it showed 2 years after the trade he was done agree they let some very talented DTs walk. It started with Cornelius Griffin, then Barry Cofield, Linval Joseph, Johnathan Hankins, and last Delvin Tomlinson. It’s a revolving door at the position. Yup and usually the WFT was waiting to scoop them up but now they are drafting their own, At this moment speaking of WFT they have ton of 1st road talent on that front and they are getting carved up. Good misery loves company.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 27, 2021 14:26:44 GMT -5
It started with Cornelius Griffin, then Barry Cofield, Linval Joseph, Johnathan Hankins, and last Delvin Tomlinson. It’s a revolving door at the position. Yup and usually the WFT was waiting to scoop them up but now they are drafting their own, At this moment speaking of WFT they have ton of 1st road talent on that front and they are getting carved up. Good misery loves company. Washington likes our sloppy seconds.
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Post by knowledgetimmons on Sept 27, 2021 14:29:52 GMT -5
Yup and usually the WFT was waiting to scoop them up but now they are drafting their own, At this moment speaking of WFT they have ton of 1st road talent on that front and they are getting carved up. Good misery loves company. Washington likes our sloppy seconds. Somehow this thread has turned into a discussion about our interior DL, with that in mind...is there a conspiracy theory with regard to Dalvin Tomlinson? Aka, the guy who was losing snaps as the 2020 season went on, and somehow nobody cared then, but do now.
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Post by Kruunch on Sept 27, 2021 14:32:01 GMT -5
Washington likes our sloppy seconds. Somehow this thread has turned into a discussion about our interior DL, with that in mind...is there a conspiracy theory with regard to Dalvin Tomlinson? Aka, the guy who was losing snaps as the 2020 season went on, and somehow nobody cared then, but do now. News to me. He has 658 snaps last year. The most of his career.
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 27, 2021 14:32:45 GMT -5
Is it garrett , or the execution,? I suspect its the execution as someone posted the wr didn't even know the plays during 1 series
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Post by repeatchamps on Sept 27, 2021 14:35:54 GMT -5
Is it garrett , or the execution,? I suspect its the execution as someone posted the wr didn't even know the plays during 1 series That was apparently the OG Bredeson yelling what's the play not a WR.
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Post by jb456 on Sept 27, 2021 14:42:21 GMT -5
DT was a rock, but the Giants are decent still against the run more then decent actually, the intangibles DT brought are missed many here cussed Gettlemen for letting Snacks go to give DT his shot it proved right he at that stage of their careers was a much better player. The Giants have excelled in drafting quality defensive tackles but don't value them enough to keep them. Snacks was an exception and he clearly wasn't right in the head. The Giants didn't draft Snacks?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Sept 27, 2021 14:44:05 GMT -5
Can someone please explain why our D started to look good late last year and now they suck? What changed? We lost Tomlinson, duh. :-) What's up with Bradberry though? He was a rock. Dependable and sturdy. Now he looks awful outside of that awful INT vs Washington that should have won us the game.
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Post by Roswell on Sept 27, 2021 15:18:04 GMT -5
The Giants have excelled in drafting quality defensive tackles but don't value them enough to keep them. Snacks was an exception and he clearly wasn't right in the head. The Giants didn't draft Snacks? He was on the Jets
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Post by snyder55 on Sept 27, 2021 15:22:55 GMT -5
Can someone please explain why our D started to look good late last year and now they suck? What changed? good question..
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Post by jb456 on Sept 27, 2021 15:40:36 GMT -5
The Giants didn't draft Snacks? He was on the Jets I knew that one man. I thought Rosie was implying that we did.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 16:20:04 GMT -5
Can someone please explain why our D started to look good late last year and now they suck? What changed? playcalling. That’s what I’m saying!! 0 blitzes and man cover corners playing DEEEEP (13+ yards of the man) on like 3rd and 3. That literally can’t be what Graham is expecting to work in those situations. Something is off with the entire league this year, been fishy af and it’s 100% goodell trying to recover profits from COVID. Hate that dude. I know how people take my son’s observations here, but he looked at me yesterday and said “Goddamn why are you playing so far off in coverage? Your giving them friggin seven yards every play!”
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 16:29:04 GMT -5
I'm curious as to what your conspiracy theory is. watch? Why don’t I show you. Watch the packers-49ers, chiefs-ravens, cowboys-bucs, cowboys-chargers games to name a few “non giant” examples. The referees aren’t even trying anymore, how you gonna call phantom penalties in the biggest momentum shifters in these games ? Again, if you watch the above games in their entirety, you’ll hear the announcers/booth head refs say “idk what the referees were thinking there” in one shape or another…multiple times a game. Never been this bad. Goodell making up profits lost due to COVID. Every primetime game gonna be a last second FG? Lol Zebras can control any outcome they’d like. Believe what you want, I guess it’s “cool” to think something is a conspiracy theory when it’s molly whopping you weekly. Bad teams never get the calls for good reason, $$$ NY teams can lose every game for the next 5 years and still make the NFL more than most franchises due to their media/market. So how does goodell profit off that? Use the NY teams as whipping boys to generate profit from poverty franchises like the Atlanta Falcons 😂 I’ll go with just about anything people say right now. And I won’t put anything past these ****ers! Why? Because over the years society has become more and more dishonest. Unscrupulous businessmen will do and say anything to get your money! Small business owners will lie through their teeth about something to get you to buy in order to stay afloat because the unscrupulous businessman is crushing them. Nobody is straight with anyone anymore in their world. It’s about how quick you can **** the other guy out of his livelihood before he gets to you. For the little guy it is about survival, but for big corporate it is about greed. I wouldn’t put it past Goodell because he is as big a scumbag as any, if not bigger. No tickets for me, though! No stupid $300 dollar jerseys or $12.00 hotdogs, for me! Stick it up your ass!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 17:03:29 GMT -5
This is heavily scheme related
Patrick Graham is a brilliant guy and he is out thinking his players right now
The Giants played primarily a cover 3 single high scheme last year and everything they did was drenched in disguise and the players really fell in line somewhere around mid season
This season they are for some reason playing a ton of cover 2 and quarters looks with 2 high... sometimes dropping a safety as a robber into the seam which often ends up in a bracket
Teams seem to have been able to get WRs on LBs with simple motions ... bad look
Sometimes they set up in a single high look ... but post snap a corner drops into the safety position of a 2 high look and the underneath safety jumps the receiver ... I hate this scheme... they have run this multiple times inI'm pretty sure every game with little success.
The team seems to be having trouble no tipping their hand in 2 minute situations
I will say one thing though ... Graham is choosing to blitz and not blitz in very odd situations so far this season.
The guy who makes this defense go is Logan Ryan ... most think it is Martinez ... nope , its Ryan
He is like the webbing that holds the entire scheme together
If he is out of sync you get a domino effect
In my opinion they should go back to cover 3 playing 3 safetys like they played last year
They will greatly benefit from that especially if #51 continues to progress as a pass rusher
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Post by idkaname on Oct 21, 2021 21:35:26 GMT -5
Even judge smells it now.
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Post by cdngfan on Oct 21, 2021 22:10:46 GMT -5
I have been baffled this year by the play calls on both sides of the ball. It literally doesn’t make sense… 1. Why would a press-man D coach play soft “prevent” zone over and over ? Especially when it wasn’t the way he approached the scheme last year ? 2. Garret can’t be that dumb. Why is this guy calling awful plays at key moments ? I refuse to believe this guy is dumb enough to call a trick play every time we get into the red zone, cuz if I’m calling plays watching at home-the defense might as well be hooked up to Graham’s mic. Anyway, the truly baffling thing about the offense …since when do a Jason Garret avoid the TE in the red zone, especially inside the 5? Garret has been around long enough to know what will work and what won’t, especially when what hasn’t is being used over and over. There’s no way that the guy that called a pass to the TE literally every time he played the giants and was inside the red zone is not calling for a pass to the TE at least some of the time… Instead we’re throwing fades and low probability passes for short yardage ? Hell the hand off to Barkley is the first run inside the 5 yard line this year that I remember… Something fishy going on and it ain’t the tuna casserole in the cafeteria. This is a pretty thoughtful post. I think we as fans oversimplify the game. The solutions seem obvious but any one of us having a one on one conversation with the nfl coaches we criticize would leave that convo feeling pretty stupid. These aren’t stupid people. They can’t be to get to this level. They may not be as good as their colleagues on other teams, but they’re not stupid, and there’s a bunch of them sitting around a table coming up with a game plan. It’s not just one person. The thing we all miss as fans is in-depth game film breakdown, opponent film breakdown, witnessing practices and actual discussions with players on and off field. I find it easy to predict plays too. But watching other games I have a similar track record. That’s not unique to the Giants.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 21, 2021 23:09:51 GMT -5
Can someone please explain why our D started to look good late last year and now they suck? What changed?
We let Dalvin Tomlinson go.
Yes but we added FA and draft talent. DT was a real loss but DTs don't change games that much and he wasn't a pass rushing force. There is something else going on and it probably has to do with coaching. By the way, didn't I read somewhere during preseason that we have more coaches and consultants than any team in the league?
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Post by Jomo on Oct 21, 2021 23:15:44 GMT -5
I have been baffled this year by the play calls on both sides of the ball. It literally doesn’t make sense… 1. Why would a press-man D coach play soft “prevent” zone over and over ? Especially when it wasn’t the way he approached the scheme last year ? 2. Garret can’t be that dumb. Why is this guy calling awful plays at key moments ? I refuse to believe this guy is dumb enough to call a trick play every time we get into the red zone, cuz if I’m calling plays watching at home-the defense might as well be hooked up to Graham’s mic. Anyway, the truly baffling thing about the offense …since when do a Jason Garret avoid the TE in the red zone, especially inside the 5? Garret has been around long enough to know what will work and what won’t, especially when what hasn’t is being used over and over. There’s no way that the guy that called a pass to the TE literally every time he played the giants and was inside the red zone is not calling for a pass to the TE at least some of the time… Instead we’re throwing fades and low probability passes for short yardage ? Hell the hand off to Barkley is the first run inside the 5 yard line this year that I remember… Something fishy going on and it ain’t the tuna casserole in the cafeteria. This is a pretty thoughtful post. I think we as fans oversimplify the game. The solutions seem obvious but any one of us having a one on one conversation with the nfl coaches we criticize would leave that convo feeling pretty stupid. These aren’t stupid people. They can’t be to get to this level. They may not be as good as their colleagues on other teams, but they’re not stupid, and there’s a bunch of them sitting around a table coming up with a game plan. It’s not just one person. The thing we all miss as fans is in-depth game film breakdown, opponent film breakdown, witnessing practices and actual discussions with players on and off field. I find it easy to predict plays too. But watching other games I have a similar track record. That’s not unique to the Giants. I think there is an entire skill set around game planning and mid game adjustments. Some guys can coach technique with the best of them. Some guys can inspire players to show up on game day Some guys can devise thoughtful and successful game plans. There are not all present on every coach. I think out game plans are ill advised and this head coach owns that void. Remember when we had Parcells and Belichick? Did our game plan ever fall short? Did we ever come out in the second half and not throw some new wrinkles at the opponent? You could ask "then why has it gone backward this year?" Fair question but has it really? We weren't good last year. We just exceeded our expectations. Just rambling, sorry.
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Post by bluejayc on Oct 22, 2021 4:47:21 GMT -5
This is a pretty thoughtful post. I think we as fans oversimplify the game. The solutions seem obvious but any one of us having a one on one conversation with the nfl coaches we criticize would leave that convo feeling pretty stupid. These aren’t stupid people. They can’t be to get to this level. They may not be as good as their colleagues on other teams, but they’re not stupid, and there’s a bunch of them sitting around a table coming up with a game plan. It’s not just one person. The thing we all miss as fans is in-depth game film breakdown, opponent film breakdown, witnessing practices and actual discussions with players on and off field. I find it easy to predict plays too. But watching other games I have a similar track record. That’s not unique to the Giants. I think there is an entire skill set around game planning and mid game adjustments. Some guys can coach technique with the best of them. Some guys can inspire players to show up on game day Some guys can devise thoughtful and successful game plans. There are not all present on every coach. I think out game plans are ill advised and this head coach owns that void. Remember when we had Parcells and Belichick? Did our game plan ever fall short? Did we ever come out in the second half and not throw some new wrinkles at the opponent? You could ask "then why has it gone backward this year?" Fair question but has it really? We weren't good last year. We just exceeded our expectations. Just rambling, sorry. You know what's hysterical.....I read the original post thinking it was written immediately post-game from Sunday and couldn't agree more....it was written a month ago . So the same crap that was blaringly obvious to this board a MONTH ago is the same crap each coordinator is doing currently. That is appalling and the definition of insanity. Now I don't think there is any intentional subversion by either coordinator......I just think they're both inept. I've never seen two coordinators be given significantly better personnel on both sides of the ball and team performance fall off a cliff on both sides compared to the year prior. It's not like this is a result of injuries because they got their doors blown off game 1 by the MIGHTY Broncos when they were fairly healthy. Very disheartening. In another thread I wrote about the team's first quarter success......they've only given up a total of 3 points in the first quarter all year, they have yet to give up a first drive score, they have only trailed once all year at the end of the first quarter (3-0 Dallas). Then on the flipside in the second quarter 6 straight games giving up a score in the last two minutes of the half....atrocious and embarrassing. Are other teams making mid-game adjustments and the Giants remaining stagnant? I don't know but it's not a good look for the coaching staff.
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Post by idkaname on Oct 22, 2021 5:58:45 GMT -5
This is a pretty thoughtful post. I think we as fans oversimplify the game. The solutions seem obvious but any one of us having a one on one conversation with the nfl coaches we criticize would leave that convo feeling pretty stupid. These aren’t stupid people. They can’t be to get to this level. They may not be as good as their colleagues on other teams, but they’re not stupid, and there’s a bunch of them sitting around a table coming up with a game plan. It’s not just one person. The thing we all miss as fans is in-depth game film breakdown, opponent film breakdown, witnessing practices and actual discussions with players on and off field. I find it easy to predict plays too. But watching other games I have a similar track record. That’s not unique to the Giants. I think there is an entire skill set around game planning and mid game adjustments. Some guys can coach technique with the best of them. Some guys can inspire players to show up on game day Some guys can devise thoughtful and successful game plans. There are not all present on every coach. I think out game plans are ill advised and this head coach owns that void. Remember when we had Parcells and Belichick? Did our game plan ever fall short? Did we ever come out in the second half and not throw some new wrinkles at the opponent? You could ask "then why has it gone backward this year?" Fair question but has it really? We weren't good last year. We just exceeded our expectations. Just rambling, sorry. exactly, no adjustments = bad coaching
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Post by myronguyton29 on Oct 22, 2021 6:23:26 GMT -5
I have been baffled this year by the play calls on both sides of the ball. It literally doesn’t make sense… 1. Why would a press-man D coach play soft “prevent” zone over and over ? Especially when it wasn’t the way he approached the scheme last year ? 2. Garret can’t be that dumb. Why is this guy calling awful plays at key moments ? I refuse to believe this guy is dumb enough to call a trick play every time we get into the red zone, cuz if I’m calling plays watching at home-the defense might as well be hooked up to Graham’s mic. Anyway, the truly baffling thing about the offense …since when do a Jason Garret avoid the TE in the red zone, especially inside the 5? Garret has been around long enough to know what will work and what won’t, especially when what hasn’t is being used over and over. There’s no way that the guy that called a pass to the TE literally every time he played the giants and was inside the red zone is not calling for a pass to the TE at least some of the time… Instead we’re throwing fades and low probability passes for short yardage ? Hell the hand off to Barkley is the first run inside the 5 yard line this year that I remember… Something fishy going on and it ain’t the tuna casserole in the cafeteria. Maaaaaaaaaaan this is genius and just what needed to be asked. I don't know what's going on either but it doesn't smell right. The bigger question should probably be IS JUDGE THAT DUMB TO NOT SEE THESE THINGS!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Jomo on Oct 22, 2021 13:14:19 GMT -5
I think there is an entire skill set around game planning and mid game adjustments. Some guys can coach technique with the best of them. Some guys can inspire players to show up on game day Some guys can devise thoughtful and successful game plans. There are not all present on every coach. I think out game plans are ill advised and this head coach owns that void. Remember when we had Parcells and Belichick? Did our game plan ever fall short? Did we ever come out in the second half and not throw some new wrinkles at the opponent? You could ask "then why has it gone backward this year?" Fair question but has it really? We weren't good last year. We just exceeded our expectations. Just rambling, sorry. You know what's hysterical.....I read the original post thinking it was written immediately post-game from Sunday and couldn't agree more....it was written a month ago . So the same crap that was blaringly obvious to this board a MONTH ago is the same crap each coordinator is doing currently. That is appalling and the definition of insanity. Now I don't think there is any intentional subversion by either coordinator......I just think they're both inept. I've never seen two coordinators be given significantly better personnel on both sides of the ball and team performance fall off a cliff on both sides compared to the year prior. It's not like this is a result of injuries because they got their doors blown off game 1 by the MIGHTY Broncos when they were fairly healthy. Very disheartening. In another thread I wrote about the team's first quarter success......they've only given up a total of 3 points in the first quarter all year, they have yet to give up a first drive score, they have only trailed once all year at the end of the first quarter (3-0 Dallas). Then on the flipside in the second quarter 6 straight games giving up a score in the last two minutes of the half....atrocious and embarrassing. Are other teams making mid-game adjustments and the Giants remaining stagnant? I don't know but it's not a good look for the coaching staff. You would think that among the HC and the two former HC on staff, they could devise thoughtful EFFECTIVE game plans.
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Post by DJones19 on Oct 22, 2021 13:18:19 GMT -5
I thought we played more soft zone last year..a big difference is it tended to get turnovers when we needed them. This year we are dropping all the INTs and not getting the right bounces.
Seems like Graham has experimented with more man coverage the last few weeks with disastrous results.
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