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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 22, 2021 12:18:03 GMT -5
I have no idea who this guy is, but he claims to be talking to sources inside the building so...
There was a curious narrative that unfolded Sunday after the New York Giants lost to the Rams 38-11 to drop to 1-5 on the season. It centered on second-year head coach Joe Judge needing to "challenge" or "motivate" his players at halftime of the game, and concern that should emanate from needing to liven up a group not even halfway through the year.
The halftime speech, I'm told, was nothing out of the ordinary that any coach down 28-3 would tell their players. Judge tried to downplay it later in the week -- "maybe it was misinterpreted," he offered -- but it didn't seem to matter by then.
For what it's worth, the Giants aren't folding their tents at all, according to several team sources.
"I don't get that feeling that guys aren't all in,"
one source told me this week. "The QB [Daniel Jones] is always in here watching film. But guys were in Monday when they didn't have to be getting a lift in and watching film."
It's a positive sign for a team in desperate need of a turnaround. But figuring out why this team finds itself in need of a turnaround for a fifth consecutive season is equal parts difficult and maddening.
This is not a team that had a large margin for error. After all, this team had 10 games that were decided by eight points or fewer last season and won (or lost, depending on your perspective) half of them. Injuries have hurt the Giants, and that's where the margin is most notable. The Ravens, with all their IR'd guys, are 5-1 while the Giants' record is the opposite of that.
Blake Martinez is lost for the year, and a source asked me just how many teams Tae Crowder and Reggie Ragland would be starting on in this league. Not many is the answer. The Giants had to make a decision this offseason on Dalvin Tomlinson or Leonard Williams and they picked the Big Cat, but I'm told "Dalvin's impact was greater than people thought," and there was always an argument to be made about bang-for-your-buck between those two even as Williams is having the better season. It could be as simple as the defense overachieved last season.
Kenny Golladay and Jones didn't connect enough in the offseason after the Giants inked Golladay to the four-year, $72 million deal. So the scratch from which they essentially started in training camp was then cut short due to a Golladay injury -- something the Lions factored into their decision-making when not offering him the franchise tag. Golladay is again injured and there's no reason to believe they'll finally make things click once he returns.
And Saquon Barkley's ankle injury came just as he was telling those around him and in the building how good he felt. "He had a great week of practice going into Dallas" a source said, and then his ankle ballooned and he suffered yet another setback.
Injuries happen. Concussions, in this sport, happen. But Judge has developed a reputation as a disciplinarian over there, and I felt it fair to wonder if he's overworking guys.
"I don't hear guys complaining about work," one source said. Others in the building backed that up, too.
I'm told it's too early to start gauging just how hot the seats are with the Giants. Another failure to make the playoffs would seem to spell the end for Dave Gettleman in New York, especially since he's in the final year of his contract. But anything happening in-season seems unlikely at this point, especially considering the loyalty co-owner John Mara feels for his hires. Judge is in the second year of a five-year deal and, as long as there's not a catastrophic end to the season, his job will be safe.
The Giants are fast running out of opportunities at a turnaround, though. If they lose to Carolina on Sunday, it's hard to see them beating any of their next three opponents in Kansas City, Las Vegas and Tampa.
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Post by hadenough on Oct 22, 2021 13:04:16 GMT -5
The fact this is even an issue a few weeks in...what a disaster.
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Post by vinnie on Oct 22, 2021 13:08:32 GMT -5
Peppers response to being asked whether he wants to stay with the Giants or not speaks volumes IMO. I think Judge is skating on very thin ice with losing the locker room, player were quitting on plays during the Rams game. Cheap talk will only take a leader so far, results are what matters. No excuses.
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Post by DJones19 on Oct 22, 2021 13:13:06 GMT -5
It does sound like Peppers is checked out but have not sensed that from other players.
Maybe he knows he is on the trading block or something.
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Post by Speedman on Oct 22, 2021 13:26:50 GMT -5
It does sound like Peppers is checked out but have not sensed that from other players. Maybe he knows he is on the trading block or something. What did Peppers say to indicate that he checked out? |
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jerky
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Post by jerky on Oct 22, 2021 13:28:09 GMT -5
I'm really interested in knowing why Peppers, who was on the field all the time last year, stopped being used this year. It wasn't something that happened gradually, he was immediately used less from game 1, I think only 40-50% of snaps. I don't understand why that happened. He was a big emotional leader for the defense.
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Post by ratbastich on Oct 22, 2021 13:36:31 GMT -5
Here is what you have to think about...we as fans watch these games and when we see the Giants up, by not much, and the other team start coming back we get that feeling of dread that this isn't going to end well for our team.
The players have to have that same feeling and probably more magnified since they are there in the moment watching it crumble.
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Post by DJones19 on Oct 22, 2021 13:36:53 GMT -5
It does sound like Peppers is checked out but have not sensed that from other players. Maybe he knows he is on the trading block or something. What did Peppers say to indicate that he checked out? Just listening to his last few press conferences on Giants.com his body language has changed. Only answers questions in very short sentences or sometimes just 1 or 2 words, used to give longer answers. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 22, 2021 13:41:19 GMT -5
but I'm told "Dalvin's impact was greater than people thought,"
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Post by Speedman on Oct 22, 2021 13:42:33 GMT -5
What did Peppers say to indicate that he checked out? Just listening to his last few press conferences on Giants.com his body language has changed. Only answers questions in very short sentences or sometimes just 1 or 2 words, used to give longer answers. Thanks |
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Post by jaymas on Oct 22, 2021 13:50:36 GMT -5
Peppers response to being asked whether he wants to stay with the Giants or not speaks volumes IMO. I think Judge is skating on very thin ice with losing the locker room, player were quitting on plays during the Rams game. Cheap talk will only take a leader so far, results are what matters. No excuses. So you think the complete opposite of what people actually inside the building apparently think? |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 13:54:48 GMT -5
It does sound like Peppers is checked out but have not sensed that from other players. Maybe he knows he is on the trading block or something. Peppers is upset his playing time has been cut and it looks at tho they are preparing to move on from him The drafted McKinney for a reason some ones gotta be the odd man out, I like Peppers a lot true Giant loves being here it sucks. I get why doesn't mean we or I have to like it. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 13:58:44 GMT -5
Peppers response to being asked whether he wants to stay with the Giants or not speaks volumes IMO. I think Judge is skating on very thin ice with losing the locker room, player were quitting on plays during the Rams game. Cheap talk will only take a leader so far, results are what matters. No excuses. Not sure about Judge but Peppers is ticked off his snaps have been cut they have safety' that can do a little more in coverage that are gonna be on rookie deals so he will most likely not be resigned or possibly traded this is his home town team. I get how he feels sucks |
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Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2021 14:02:33 GMT -5
I'm really interested in knowing why Peppers, who was on the field all the time last year, stopped being used this year. It wasn't something that happened gradually, he was immediately used less from game 1, I think only 40-50% of snaps. I don't understand why that happened. He was a big emotional leader for the defense. He did get an ankle injury recently. But also, McKinney is looking better and is the only one making plays out there. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 14:02:45 GMT -5
I have no idea who this guy is, but he claims to be talking to sources inside the building so...
There was a curious narrative that unfolded Sunday after the New York Giants lost to the Rams 38-11 to drop to 1-5 on the season. It centered on second-year head coach Joe Judge needing to "challenge" or "motivate" his players at halftime of the game, and concern that should emanate from needing to liven up a group not even halfway through the year.
The halftime speech, I'm told, was nothing out of the ordinary that any coach down 28-3 would tell their players. Judge tried to downplay it later in the week -- "maybe it was misinterpreted," he offered -- but it didn't seem to matter by then.
For what it's worth, the Giants aren't folding their tents at all, according to several team sources.
"I don't get that feeling that guys aren't all in,"
one source told me this week. "The QB [Daniel Jones] is always in here watching film. But guys were in Monday when they didn't have to be getting a lift in and watching film."
It's a positive sign for a team in desperate need of a turnaround. But figuring out why this team finds itself in need of a turnaround for a fifth consecutive season is equal parts difficult and maddening.
This is not a team that had a large margin for error. After all, this team had 10 games that were decided by eight points or fewer last season and won (or lost, depending on your perspective) half of them. Injuries have hurt the Giants, and that's where the margin is most notable. The Ravens, with all their IR'd guys, are 5-1 while the Giants' record is the opposite of that.
Blake Martinez is lost for the year, and a source asked me just how many teams Tae Crowder and Reggie Ragland would be starting on in this league. Not many is the answer. The Giants had to make a decision this offseason on Dalvin Tomlinson or Leonard Williams and they picked the Big Cat, but I'm told "Dalvin's impact was greater than people thought," and there was always an argument to be made about bang-for-your-buck between those two even as Williams is having the better season. It could be as simple as the defense overachieved last season.
Kenny Golladay and Jones didn't connect enough in the offseason after the Giants inked Golladay to the four-year, $72 million deal. So the scratch from which they essentially started in training camp was then cut short due to a Golladay injury -- something the Lions factored into their decision-making when not offering him the franchise tag. Golladay is again injured and there's no reason to believe they'll finally make things click once he returns.
And Saquon Barkley's ankle injury came just as he was telling those around him and in the building how good he felt. "He had a great week of practice going into Dallas" a source said, and then his ankle ballooned and he suffered yet another setback.
Injuries happen. Concussions, in this sport, happen. But Judge has developed a reputation as a disciplinarian over there, and I felt it fair to wonder if he's overworking guys.
"I don't hear guys complaining about work," one source said. Others in the building backed that up, too.
I'm told it's too early to start gauging just how hot the seats are with the Giants. Another failure to make the playoffs would seem to spell the end for Dave Gettleman in New York, especially since he's in the final year of his contract. But anything happening in-season seems unlikely at this point, especially considering the loyalty co-owner John Mara feels for his hires. Judge is in the second year of a five-year deal and, as long as there's not a catastrophic end to the season, his job will be safe.
The Giants are fast running out of opportunities at a turnaround, though. If they lose to Carolina on Sunday, it's hard to see them beating any of their next three opponents in Kansas City, Las Vegas and Tampa.
I think the team in general is beat up on the offensive side of the ball and playing a lot of young players tat should be all in. The question is when all the vets come back to a 1-8 or 1-9 team how will they react and what will they give. Giants should be researching GM candidates right now getting their P and Qs in order. |
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Post by Jomo on Oct 22, 2021 14:04:43 GMT -5
We need less slogans and metaphors and more football players.
Less "specimens" and more guys like Martinez.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 14:06:37 GMT -5
I'm really interested in knowing why Peppers, who was on the field all the time last year, stopped being used this year. It wasn't something that happened gradually, he was immediately used less from game 1, I think only 40-50% of snaps. I don't understand why that happened. He was a big emotional leader for the defense. It's a numbers game he's gonna be expensive compared to the more versatile McKinney who this is more like his rookie year being he only got the last couple games last year. Don't know what the answers are going forward as far as Ryan and Love goes. |
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Post by McCherry on Oct 22, 2021 14:10:56 GMT -5
I'm really interested in knowing why Peppers, who was on the field all the time last year, stopped being used this year. It wasn't something that happened gradually, he was immediately used less from game 1, I think only 40-50% of snaps. I don't understand why that happened. He was a big emotional leader for the defense. It's a numbers game he's gonna be expensive compared to the more versatile McKinney who this is more like his rookie year being he only got the last couple games last year. Don't know what the answers are going forward as far as Ryan and Love goes. Ryan looks like he's got very little left in the tank. I thought the signing was good, but the contract extension was a mistake. Peppers, good player at times, not great. Both could go. |
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jerky
Special Teams
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Post by jerky on Oct 22, 2021 14:27:09 GMT -5
I'm really interested in knowing why Peppers, who was on the field all the time last year, stopped being used this year. It wasn't something that happened gradually, he was immediately used less from game 1, I think only 40-50% of snaps. I don't understand why that happened. He was a big emotional leader for the defense. He did get an ankle injury recently. But also, McKinney is looking better and is the only one making plays out there. That may be true, but his snap count was cut from the beginning of the season. Was McKinney practicing much better than Peppers? He was a big part of the defense last year, it's just weird that he is suddenly barely part of it from the beginning. |
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Post by vinnie on Oct 22, 2021 14:39:05 GMT -5
Peppers response to being asked whether he wants to stay with the Giants or not speaks volumes IMO. I think Judge is skating on very thin ice with losing the locker room, player were quitting on plays during the Rams game. Cheap talk will only take a leader so far, results are what matters. No excuses. So you think the complete opposite of what people actually inside the building apparently think? Yes…and based on the past 10 years that only makes me feel more right about my opinion. Thanks for the compliment! You have no idea how good that makes me feel. |
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Post by vinnie on Oct 22, 2021 14:43:35 GMT -5
Peppers response to being asked whether he wants to stay with the Giants or not speaks volumes IMO. I think Judge is skating on very thin ice with losing the locker room, player were quitting on plays during the Rams game. Cheap talk will only take a leader so far, results are what matters. No excuses. Not sure about Judge but Peppers is ticked off his snaps have been cut they have safety' that can do a little more in coverage that are gonna be on rookie deals so he will most likely not be resigned or possibly traded this is his home town team. I get how he feels sucks Obviously all speculation but I feel it’s a combo of him not being used correctly, their record and (related) wanting to play for a winning team that knows how to use him. I can’t think of too many coaches that continue to have losing records and kept players support at the same time, especially a rookie HC who has no history of a winning season or anything close to it. The support may last for a couple of years, especially the first year when players buy in, but the results speak louder than words. Players aren’t going to keep buying his schtick when they’re not being used correctly, have a coach putting his players in bad positions, making bad in game decisions, etc. |
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Post by Martin on Oct 22, 2021 14:50:24 GMT -5
We need less slogans and metaphors and more football players. Less "specimens" and more guys like Martinez. Props to the organization for getting Martinez he indeed is a great LB and Frackel was also a good pickup. Too bad they couldn't pay him. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 22, 2021 15:07:22 GMT -5
Peppers response to being asked whether he wants to stay with the Giants or not speaks volumes IMO. I think Judge is skating on very thin ice with losing the locker room, player were quitting on plays during the Rams game. Cheap talk will only take a leader so far, results are what matters. No excuses. Not sure about Judge but Peppers is ticked off his snaps have been cut they have safety' that can do a little more in coverage that are gonna be on rookie deals so he will most likely not be resigned or possibly traded this is his home town team. I get how he feels sucks I was thinking that with the younger safeties and the Giants being a little short at LBer move him there. |
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Post by jaymas on Oct 22, 2021 15:07:47 GMT -5
So you think the complete opposite of what people actually inside the building apparently think? Yes…and based on the past 10 years that only makes me feel more right about my opinion. Thanks for the compliment! You have no idea how good that makes me feel. I think if he were actually losing the team, that would be out by now. It was with Macadoo and it was way back with Bill Sheridan after he took over from Spags. So the fact this was an inquiry and the universal sentiment from people that actually work for the Giants are saying otherwise makes me feel like it's the case. Now this is a moment in time, that could certainly change depending on how things shake out and guys get more frustrated. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Oct 22, 2021 15:08:59 GMT -5
We need less slogans and metaphors and more football players. Less "specimens" and more guys like Martinez. We need players who can stay on the field. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 22, 2021 15:32:16 GMT -5
We need less slogans and metaphors and more football players. Less "specimens" and more guys like Martinez. We need players who can stay on the field. Yet Ronnie Barnes is still on our payroll (yes again I have gone after a sacred cow to some around here but in addition to Fredo getting a major role with player personnel the other constant beginning with that time period is how many perfectly healthy players become injury issues after getting here ) |
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 22, 2021 16:00:53 GMT -5
I have no idea who this guy is, but he claims to be talking to sources inside the building so...
There was a curious narrative that unfolded Sunday after the New York Giants lost to the Rams 38-11 to drop to 1-5 on the season. It centered on second-year head coach Joe Judge needing to "challenge" or "motivate" his players at halftime of the game, and concern that should emanate from needing to liven up a group not even halfway through the year.
The halftime speech, I'm told, was nothing out of the ordinary that any coach down 28-3 would tell their players. Judge tried to downplay it later in the week -- "maybe it was misinterpreted," he offered -- but it didn't seem to matter by then.
For what it's worth, the Giants aren't folding their tents at all, according to several team sources.
"I don't get that feeling that guys aren't all in,"
one source told me this week. "The QB [Daniel Jones] is always in here watching film. But guys were in Monday when they didn't have to be getting a lift in and watching film."
It's a positive sign for a team in desperate need of a turnaround. But figuring out why this team finds itself in need of a turnaround for a fifth consecutive season is equal parts difficult and maddening.
This is not a team that had a large margin for error. After all, this team had 10 games that were decided by eight points or fewer last season and won (or lost, depending on your perspective) half of them. Injuries have hurt the Giants, and that's where the margin is most notable. The Ravens, with all their IR'd guys, are 5-1 while the Giants' record is the opposite of that.
Blake Martinez is lost for the year, and a source asked me just how many teams Tae Crowder and Reggie Ragland would be starting on in this league. Not many is the answer. The Giants had to make a decision this offseason on Dalvin Tomlinson or Leonard Williams and they picked the Big Cat, but I'm told "Dalvin's impact was greater than people thought," and there was always an argument to be made about bang-for-your-buck between those two even as Williams is having the better season. It could be as simple as the defense overachieved last season.
Kenny Golladay and Jones didn't connect enough in the offseason after the Giants inked Golladay to the four-year, $72 million deal. So the scratch from which they essentially started in training camp was then cut short due to a Golladay injury -- something the Lions factored into their decision-making when not offering him the franchise tag. Golladay is again injured and there's no reason to believe they'll finally make things click once he returns.
And Saquon Barkley's ankle injury came just as he was telling those around him and in the building how good he felt. "He had a great week of practice going into Dallas" a source said, and then his ankle ballooned and he suffered yet another setback.
Injuries happen. Concussions, in this sport, happen. But Judge has developed a reputation as a disciplinarian over there, and I felt it fair to wonder if he's overworking guys.
"I don't hear guys complaining about work," one source said. Others in the building backed that up, too.
I'm told it's too early to start gauging just how hot the seats are with the Giants. Another failure to make the playoffs would seem to spell the end for Dave Gettleman in New York, especially since he's in the final year of his contract. But anything happening in-season seems unlikely at this point, especially considering the loyalty co-owner John Mara feels for his hires. Judge is in the second year of a five-year deal and, as long as there's not a catastrophic end to the season, his job will be safe.
The Giants are fast running out of opportunities at a turnaround, though. If they lose to Carolina on Sunday, it's hard to see them beating any of their next three opponents in Kansas City, Las Vegas and Tampa.
I think the team in general is beat up on the offensive side of the ball and playing a lot of young players tat should be all in. The question is when all the vets come back to a 1-8 or 1-9 team how will they react and what will they give. Giants should be researching GM candidates right now getting their P and Qs in order. I think they must be as this is Dave's last year on his current contract. I highly doubt he'll return. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 16:47:32 GMT -5
I think the team in general is beat up on the offensive side of the ball and playing a lot of young players tat should be all in. The question is when all the vets come back to a 1-8 or 1-9 team how will they react and what will they give. Giants should be researching GM candidates right now getting their P and Qs in order. I think they must be as this is Dave's last year on his current contract. I highly doubt he'll return. At his age almost makes no sense to bring him back even if every thing was good. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 16:48:34 GMT -5
Not sure about Judge but Peppers is ticked off his snaps have been cut they have safety' that can do a little more in coverage that are gonna be on rookie deals so he will most likely not be resigned or possibly traded this is his home town team. I get how he feels sucks I was thinking that with the younger safeties and the Giants being a little short at LBer move him there. Thats where he plays his best ball down there covering backs and helping in the run game. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 22, 2021 16:51:04 GMT -5
Not sure about Judge but Peppers is ticked off his snaps have been cut they have safety' that can do a little more in coverage that are gonna be on rookie deals so he will most likely not be resigned or possibly traded this is his home town team. I get how he feels sucks Obviously all speculation but I feel it’s a combo of him not being used correctly, their record and (related) wanting to play for a winning team that knows how to use him. I can’t think of too many coaches that continue to have losing records and kept players support at the same time, especially a rookie HC who has no history of a winning season or anything close to it. The support may last for a couple of years, especially the first year when players buy in, but the results speak louder than words. Players aren’t going to keep buying his schtick when they’re not being used correctly, have a coach putting his players in bad positions, making bad in game decisions, etc. I think he might survive this year but idf they have another crappy start they will be done by mid year first he has to keep their support this year. |
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