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Post by Roswell on Oct 25, 2021 9:45:33 GMT -5
In my opinion when it comes to the Oline in general it seems like it's a matter of strenghth vs strength for the most part and especially run blocking. I mean dang just push the man in front of you , get a push and especially goal line situations my goodness. To get punked everytime you line up and let the guy in front of you bullrush you, run over you, and everything under the sun is it a matter of them just being weaklings when it comes to that aspect anyway? The guy across from you is getting paid to push you back sure but your ass is getting paid to do the same smdh. I was always curious about that and no you are not playing All starts across from you every week why the heck can't yall get a push and run block better????????/ Sure pass protecting and schemes and such can confuse and is meant to confuse and I can see how average and below average guys will be often but dang just lining up and blocking the guy in front of you and not getting your ass kicked all damn day up and down the field should be something they can do. What are your opinions as to it Olineman who constantly get pushed back/punked all damn game long and why they NEVER are able to beat their man not one time all game long? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it is because our OL isn't good. Let us review LT-Thomas is out but a good player when he is there. Soldier is not a starting caliber player anymore and hasn't been since he signed with the Giants. Peart is talented, but raw, not ready, inconsistent and better off on the right side. LG-Lemieux is a good run blocker and communicator at LG, but weak pass blocker. He's hurt. Bredeson is first replacement got hurt, Gates his 2nd replacement, got hurt after switching positions to cover the hole. Wes Martin his 3rd replacement was bad. Skura is playing out of position to cover the hole but is not good as you would expect from the 4th guy on the list. C-Gates is a solid player, but hurt and was needed to be switched because of the gaping hole to his left. Price was traded away from a team for a reason, a team that is both in need of OL help and a team that drafted him in the first round, it's because he isn't good. RG-Hernandez is the only guy who has managed to maintain his starting position. Unfortunately he is neither good in pass nor run blocking and a poor communicator easily exposed with stunts and movement on the DL. RT-Soldier is not a starting caliber player, he is starting because neither is anyone else on the team. Peart is talented but raw and easily taken advantage of by experienced players. Though I still think he can get to the point of Good Starter, but that time isn't now. Cunningham was sitting on his couch until the Giants called him for a reason, he isn't good. So, basically, the OL is bad, injured or both at every position on the line; this tends to lead to poor performance. Shocking but true. Pretty much sums it up...
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Post by GameTime on Oct 25, 2021 10:22:57 GMT -5
desire and talent are what separates any athlete from the other. Tf they have the desire they will train to be stronger and better. Its all about desire to be the best you can be. Saleh just had a great quote in his post-game presser: "If you need somebody to be in your butt yelling at you to get going playing a child's game at a king's ransom, then you don't deserve to wear the logo, period." great quote but IMO all these guys have the talent. Some obvioulsy have more of course. But desire is key. How one gets and keeps the passion is anyone's guess. All players need an incentive whether self motivated or not.
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Post by jaymas on Oct 25, 2021 10:23:31 GMT -5
I don’t know why Lemieux is always portrayed as some coveted high caliber OL. Is he better than the bottom of the barrel drudge we’re trotting out now? Sure. But it’s bit as if he’s a very good or great OL. There is an upgrade out there for sure. No offensive line has a good or great player at every position. Because you said there is an upgrade out there, for sure. and the way you described people describing Shane L. I don't think I every saw anyone claiming he was good to great. But he was a projected starter, and we lost all the depth behind him. I'm not saying he's a starter for the next decade, I have no idea. But I think going into this season, especially once the assessment was made we didn't need to draft anyone, that it was clear an upgrade was not out there and the development of the player and the cohesion of the unit was a better solution than replacing him. Now that never got to play out, unfortunately, so I may have been dead wrong. I disagree on the last part of your sentence. Those Cowboy olines were great units, but no great oline unit has 5 great players. They usually have 1 or 2 great players and excellent role players around them that range from average to good, and the units themselves are perfectly in sync. For example the only great players on those cowboy olines were martin and Smith. Not knocking the other guys, but great is a strong word.
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Post by Kase1 on Oct 25, 2021 12:02:50 GMT -5
It's clearly not just on strength alone, if it was Mitch Petrus would have been the best run blocker of all time.
Technique, leverage, the system, and football iq all play a big part of it too
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 25, 2021 19:05:56 GMT -5
It's pretty simple IMO. Lemiuex was our best run blocker last year, he was gone from the start. Peart is a better run blocker than Solder, but we went with Solder (probably was the safer pick to start the year). Gates is a better run blocker than Price. Now Thomas is out as well.
I do not think it is a pure strength thing. First off there is a ton of technique involved. Second Will Hernandez is as strong as they come, put up 37 reps of 225; he is not weak. I think our run blocking would be better with Thomas, Lemiuex, Gates, Hernandez and Peart.
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 25, 2021 19:12:46 GMT -5
The thing that concerns me, is you can make a pretty good argument that the Giants still need 4 positions to be filled or upgraded on the OL. Of course this is predicated on how Gates and Lemieux respond to their injuries. I think Lemieux will be fine, but Gates is an unknown. I have no confidence in Peart or Hernandez at this point, and Solder is terrible. After all this time the line is still the biggest issue this team has. That's inexcusable The OL has 5 players on it. In this league you need to constantly add to it. Even the Cowboys with a great OL could not hold them together for a long time. So you keep adding and developing players. We don't need to replace everyone right of Thomas. What is likely to happen is we will sign a starter in free agency and draft one early. So we will have Thomas, a rookie, a free agent and two guys out of Lemieux, Gates, Peart, Solder, Hernandez. Figure Solder retires and Hernandez leaves. We keep two of Lemiuex, Gates, Peart. Could we live with an OL where Peart is the worst player? I think so.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Oct 26, 2021 5:33:17 GMT -5
The thing that concerns me, is you can make a pretty good argument that the Giants still need 4 positions to be filled or upgraded on the OL. Of course this is predicated on how Gates and Lemieux respond to their injuries. I think Lemieux will be fine, but Gates is an unknown. I have no confidence in Peart or Hernandez at this point, and Solder is terrible. After all this time the line is still the biggest issue this team has. That's inexcusable The OL has 5 players on it. In this league you need to constantly add to it. Even the Cowboys with a great OL could not hold them together for a long time. So you keep adding and developing players. We don't need to replace everyone right of Thomas. What is likely to happen is we will sign a starter in free agency and draft one early. So we will have Thomas, a rookie, a free agent and two guys out of Lemieux, Gates, Peart, Solder, Hernandez. Figure Solder retires and Hernandez leaves. We keep two of Lemiuex, Gates, Peart. Could we live with an OL where Peart is the worst player? I think so. Well I think we keep all 3 of Gates, Peart and Lemiuex. But it's been how many years of trying to fix the line? I understand adding players here and there and improving depth, but at some point you need continuity there, along with performance. We have had neither
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Post by IrishMike on Oct 26, 2021 18:21:36 GMT -5
Well I think we keep all 3 of Gates, Peart and Lemiuex. But it's been how many years of trying to fix the line? I understand adding players here and there and improving depth, but at some point you need continuity there, along with performance. We have had neither I think continuity is a misunderstood thing when it comes to the OL. Having it throughout the season is very important. Not switching out 3-4 guys each year is important. You don't need the same 5 guys every season for 5 years though. That Cowboys OL that was so amazing was a different OL every year. They only had the same OL (Smith, Leary, Frederick, Martin Free) together twice and it was not back to back years. I would love to have a great OL for 5 years but it's a constant improvement game where you have to keep building it. Its the biggest position group and needs constant attention. The Cowboys since 2010 have spend just about the same draft capital as the Giants on the OL. We have a horrible one we keep trying to build and they have a great one.
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