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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 15:09:56 GMT -5
I keep forgetting you watch all the games especially the Lions ones.. Do you? I know that when he was healthy he was 7th overall in yardage and #1 in touchdowns. Easy to do when you're going against the prevent defense for a 1/3 of the season.. Can't wait to see if he can be a contributer for the Giants getting a lot of wins. I will still stay consistent and claim that it's dumb to over pay for a WR then add to that one that played for a really bad team and is coming off an injury is double dumb..
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Post by jaymas on Oct 26, 2021 15:14:05 GMT -5
No one has TDs as this offense is allergic to the endzone when in the redzone. He produced 190 yards in his last two games before getting hurt. He's a prototypical split end in this type of offense completely changes how we are defended. Those are facts. Now does that mean he ultimately lives up to his contract as a splashy free agent signing? I don't know...because we're not even halfway through his first season. But I do know that on the field (even playing through injury) he's affecting the game, significantly. Well I would expect infinitely and significant must result in more scoring.. No excuse Having a couple of decent games that still don't put him in the company that contract requires and right now Toney is infinitely more explosive on this offense then mister over paid injury.. They don't serve the same role, at all, in the offense. They also have completely different physical characteristics. Our lack of points is not caused by Kenny Golladay. And in the saints and WFT games...we scored points.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2021 15:22:28 GMT -5
Well I would expect infinitely and significant must result in more scoring.. No excuse Having a couple of decent games that still don't put him in the company that contract requires and right now Toney is infinitely more explosive on this offense then mister over paid injury.. They don't serve the same role, at all, in the offense. They also have completely different physical characteristics. Our lack of points is not caused by Kenny Golladay. And in the saints and WFT games...we scored points. I'm certainly not seeing the production that I feel is worthy of that bloated contract.. I brought up Toney because he is a WR so if you want to say they aren't the same then LOL.. I wish I had the Saints game recorded because i missed the 1st 3/4 bowling a tournament.. If you want to keep saying that he's great for the Giants then we will disagree about this.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 26, 2021 15:24:40 GMT -5
They are 3-4 and haven't won at home yet this year, their Defense is putrid and their OL and Mahomes have been struggling on and off Giants got scheme up some good shit here or they will be in trouble, some of their games last week they had LBs Carter and Ojulari picking off OLs helping the interior get there Wiliams had 1.5 and Lawrence had sack I believe and 2 holding penalty's called just like a sack a 10 yard loss they need more of that type stuff . Giants need to stop with stupid mistakes in green/redzone too. They tend to go backwards when inside the 20. I have a feeling the Chiefs will plays all out and get reckless. Hopefully the NYGs can capitalize. Yes it is more shooting themselves in the foot and some coaching issues, They need to take advantage of the the plays that are there if they did that they would be 4-3 right now without question.
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Post by vinnie on Oct 26, 2021 15:31:56 GMT -5
Mahomes is damaged goods right now and this team is not as confident as they used to be. The Giants D has to get to Mahomes and beat him up. My worry there is so many times the Giants D "almost" gets there only to have the QB make a huge play. That is what Mahomes does better than most. Reid will pull out all the stops to get a home win and not got below .500. I am sure they feel the NYGs are just what they need right now. Conversely the Chiefs are just what the NYGs need right now as well..........maybe....lol They are below 500 and hopefully with little luck and help we will have the same record on Tuesday morning. Lol, that would be fascinating!
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Post by kerryisdaman on Oct 26, 2021 15:37:00 GMT -5
I keep forgetting you watch all the games especially the Lions ones.. Do you? I know that when he was healthy he was 7th overall in yardage and #1 in touchdowns. No one wants him to be great more than I do but the stats you mentioned do not mean separation to me. I look at how many times a guy has to be targeted for a catch as more of an indicator of if he is covered or not. Obviously drops play a role in that as well. For good or bad KG usually has to be targeted more often for his catches than a guy like Shep. Since he has good hands I would not think that is about drops.
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Post by GameTime on Oct 26, 2021 15:37:39 GMT -5
Giants need to stop with stupid mistakes in green/redzone too. They tend to go backwards when inside the 20. I have a feeling the Chiefs will plays all out and get reckless. Hopefully the NYGs can capitalize. Yes it is more shooting themselves in the foot and some coaching issues, They need to take advantage of the the plays that are there if they did that they would be 4-3 right now without question. if they get a turn over it has to equal points. If they get a short field they need to score points.
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Post by McCherry on Oct 26, 2021 15:50:27 GMT -5
Do you? I know that when he was healthy he was 7th overall in yardage and #1 in touchdowns. No one wants him to be great more than I do but the stats you mentioned do not mean separation to me. I look at how many times a guy has to be targeted for a catch as more of an indicator of if he is covered or not. Obviously drops play a role in that as well. For good or bad KG usually has to be targeted more often for his catches than a guy like Shep. Since he has good hands I would not think that is about drops. Not many 6' 4" WR's are getting a lot of separation, their height is their advantage. A 4.5 40-yard dash is pretty common for players of KG's size. Plaxico wasn't beating many DB's in a foot race. My point is that a WR averaging 16.8 yards per reception is obviously a highly productive, big-time player maker in the receiving game... 21 TD's in 44 starts. when healthy, KG has been one of the most productive WR's in the league. Who cares how he's accomplishing it, the numbers are all that count.
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Post by jaymas on Oct 26, 2021 15:53:15 GMT -5
They don't serve the same role, at all, in the offense. They also have completely different physical characteristics. Our lack of points is not caused by Kenny Golladay. And in the saints and WFT games...we scored points. I'm certainly not seeing the production that I feel is worthy of that bloated contract.. I brought up Toney because he is a WR so if you want to say they aren't the same then LOL.. I wish I had the Saints game recorded because i missed the 1st 3/4 bowling a tournament.. If you want to keep saying that he's great for the Giants then we will disagree about this. I don't know what bloated contract means, honestly. It's free agency, every contract is "bloated" for the top guys on the market each year. and I'm positive you're not actually as obtuse as "this guy is also a receiver, so he's the same LOL" as if they aren't different heights, skill sets, body types, etc. When he's been on the field (outside of week one) he's basically been as advertised, a big play receiver (averaging 16.5 yds per catch) that uses his body and hands well while covered who gets good separation for a guy his size. And sure, sounds like we will disagree. In the 4 games he played it was on pace for an 1100 yard 16 game season after starting slow. His presence is arguably the most important thing in manufacturing the most explosive attack we can have, not only for his proven skills, but what he opens up for others. If he stays totally injury prone or ineffective this whole year, then come talk to me. But otherwise it's just a misplaced reaction, not based on any facts, that he wasn't worth signing.
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Post by jaymas on Oct 26, 2021 15:56:29 GMT -5
Complaining about Kenny Golladay's yards of separation metric when he averages almost 17 yds a catch and when healthy with the Lions was one of the best big play receivers in the NFL (literally the best in 2019) seems super odd.
It's like knocking Mike Evans for his yards of separation as a guy who's almost 6ft 5...even though Mike Evans routinely makes huge plays and has been since he was drafted.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Oct 26, 2021 17:34:07 GMT -5
No one wants him to be great more than I do but the stats you mentioned do not mean separation to me. I look at how many times a guy has to be targeted for a catch as more of an indicator of if he is covered or not. Obviously drops play a role in that as well. For good or bad KG usually has to be targeted more often for his catches than a guy like Shep. Since he has good hands I would not think that is about drops. Not many 6' 4" WR's are getting a lot of separation, their height is their advantage. A 4.5 40-yard dash is pretty common for players of KG's size. Plaxico wasn't beating many DB's in a foot race. My point is that a WR averaging 16.8 yards per reception is obviously a highly productive, big-time player maker in the receiving game... 21 TD's in 44 starts. when healthy, KG has been one of the most productive WR's in the league. Who cares how he's accomplishing it, the numbers are all that count. Well if it takes a lot of targets to get results those stats also do matter. I hope he is as great as you say. So far I have not seen it as a Giant. I hope we do soon.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 26, 2021 18:01:31 GMT -5
Yeah because he can't get separation or stay on the field.. Wonderful potential who needs to scratch some potential somewhere.. LOL Can't stay on the field, true... Can't' get separation, his career proves otherwise. His mo is a wr who doesn't need separation, a guy who catches contested passes. But you have to be playing to make a difference, and he's been injured in preseason and most of the season so far. You aren't worth anything if you can't play. And he's been worth nothing so far.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Oct 26, 2021 19:35:49 GMT -5
Would love to have Toney back with Shep. There was something there in the Rams game that was fun to watch. Couldn't care less about Golladay. Wasted money. Wasted money? He got hurt early in the game after his best game as a Giant. I also thought he played well against the Falcons. Or he's wasted money because he's been hurt? I'd say its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to place any sort of judgement on the Golladay signing. I think it's both honestly. Golladay is slow and can be taken out of a game relatively easily compared to a quicker shifter WR. He def can make the most contested catches outside of Toney, but I prefer my receivers just get open. Give Jones some clean reads. Our best WR group is Toney as the #1, Shep in the slot, and Ross as the #2 to take the top off the defense. Golladay is good, but he's not $72MM good. He's our 4th best receiver IMO when everyone is healthy.
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Post by roundabout on Oct 26, 2021 19:49:08 GMT -5
Wasted money? He got hurt early in the game after his best game as a Giant. I also thought he played well against the Falcons. Or he's wasted money because he's been hurt? I'd say its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to place any sort of judgement on the Golladay signing. I think it's both honestly. Golladay is slow and can be taken out of a game relatively easily compared to a quicker shifter WR. He def can make the most contested catches outside of Toney, but I prefer my receivers just get open. Give Jones some clean reads. Our best WR group is Toney as the #1, Shep in the slot, and Ross as the #2 to take the top off the defense. Golladay is good, but he's not $72MM good. He's our 4th best receiver IMO when everyone is healthy. Ross ahead of Golladay?....Can I have what you're smoking?
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 26, 2021 19:50:33 GMT -5
Yes it is more shooting themselves in the foot and some coaching issues, They need to take advantage of the the plays that are there if they did that they would be 4-3 right now without question. if they get a turn over it has to equal points. If they get a short field they need to score points. 7s
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 26, 2021 19:53:05 GMT -5
They are below 500 and hopefully with little luck and help we will have the same record on Tuesday morning. Lol, that would be fascinating! 3-5 for the chiefs and the the Giants one team would feel like shit and the other would really good lol sure you know who's who.
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Post by vinnie on Oct 26, 2021 20:24:15 GMT -5
Lol, that would be fascinating! 3-5 for the chiefs and the the Giants one team would feel like shit and the other would really good lol sure you know who's who. Lol, pretty sure the Chiefs fans were disappointed by not only losing to the Titans but only scoring 3 points. I’m also pretty sure there aren’t too many other teams, other than us, that they will think they hit rock bottom if they lose. Jets, Houston, Jags, Miami, Washington, Panthers, maybe Philly and us? We’re not the worst of that group but that fact that we’re right there with them is bad enough to make fans of other teams disgusted if they lose to us.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Oct 26, 2021 20:43:34 GMT -5
3-5 for the chiefs and the the Giants one team would feel like shit and the other would really good lol sure you know who's who. Lol, pretty sure the Chiefs fans were disappointed by not only losing to the Titans but only scoring 3 points. I’m also pretty sure there aren’t too many other teams, other than us, that they will think they hit rock bottom if they lose. Jets, Houston, Jags, Miami, Washington, Panthers, maybe Philly and us? We’re not the worst of that group but that fact that we’re right there with them is bad enough to make fans of other teams disgusted if they lose to us. 3-5 baby
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Oct 26, 2021 20:50:52 GMT -5
I think it's both honestly. Golladay is slow and can be taken out of a game relatively easily compared to a quicker shifter WR. He def can make the most contested catches outside of Toney, but I prefer my receivers just get open. Give Jones some clean reads. Our best WR group is Toney as the #1, Shep in the slot, and Ross as the #2 to take the top off the defense. Golladay is good, but he's not $72MM good. He's our 4th best receiver IMO when everyone is healthy. Ross ahead of Golladay?....Can I have what you're smoking? He can take the top off of the defense. Golladay can't. In limited time, Ross has been more explosive and has the only TD between the 2 of them. I know what we all wanted Golladay to be to this team (Plax), but he hasn't shown it even when he was healthy. Maybe things will change if he comes back this season, but I doubt it.
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Post by leonperry on Oct 26, 2021 21:39:42 GMT -5
You can't rush it. We saw that with kt on Sunday. He obviously shouldn't have played.we seem to be saying this a lot about guys playing for this coaching staff... a hell of a lot
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Post by Fletch842 on Oct 27, 2021 5:40:56 GMT -5
if they get a turn over it has to equal points. If they get a short field they need to score points. 7s what, you don't love field goals as much as I do, and apparently our offensive coaches?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 6:07:08 GMT -5
I'm certainly not seeing the production that I feel is worthy of that bloated contract.. I brought up Toney because he is a WR so if you want to say they aren't the same then LOL.. I wish I had the Saints game recorded because i missed the 1st 3/4 bowling a tournament.. If you want to keep saying that he's great for the Giants then we will disagree about this. I don't know what bloated contract means, honestly. It's free agency, every contract is "bloated" for the top guys on the market each year. If he stays totally injury prone or ineffective this whole year, then come talk to me. But otherwise it's just a misplaced reaction, not based on any facts, that he wasn't worth signing. So what is it do you know or not? It's great that you can contradict yourself in back to back sentences.. Well done! So the injury prone player has to stay uninjured for this to be good.. That's working out as expected so far..
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Post by jaymas on Oct 27, 2021 7:16:53 GMT -5
I don't know what bloated contract means, honestly. It's free agency, every contract is "bloated" for the top guys on the market each year. If he stays totally injury prone or ineffective this whole year, then come talk to me. But otherwise it's just a misplaced reaction, not based on any facts, that he wasn't worth signing. So what is it do you know or not? It's great that you can contradict yourself in back to back sentences.. Well done! So the injury prone player has to stay uninjured for this to be good.. That's working out as expected so far.. How can it be bloated if everything is bloated? Pretty clear what I mean. That was funny though. You started this off by saying you knew it was bad the moment he was signed. Pretty clear there's one of those "I'm gonna say whatever I can to be right about this." So why'd you think it was bad? The 2020 injury? What would it take to change your mind?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 7:57:32 GMT -5
So what is it do you know or not? It's great that you can contradict yourself in back to back sentences.. Well done! So the injury prone player has to stay uninjured for this to be good.. That's working out as expected so far.. How can it be bloated if everything is bloated? Pretty clear what I mean. That was funny though. You started this off by saying you knew it was bad the moment he was signed. Pretty clear there's one of those "I'm gonna say whatever I can to be right about this." So why'd you think it was bad? The 2020 injury? What would it take to change your mind? I'm in the group that thinks paying for a top receiver in FA is dumb for the cap usage. For me there were a few issues giving him big money so I'll wait and see if I'm wrong so please call me out if he ever becomes a 10+ TD player with 1400+ yards.. Toney in a small sample looks much better than some player who racked up stats on a shitty team.. I was a big Beckham fan and didn't like the 2nd contract just to show I'm consistent.. I feel the same way with RBs but Henry sure is an outlier on that one..
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Post by jaymas on Oct 27, 2021 8:45:12 GMT -5
How can it be bloated if everything is bloated? Pretty clear what I mean. That was funny though. You started this off by saying you knew it was bad the moment he was signed. Pretty clear there's one of those "I'm gonna say whatever I can to be right about this." So why'd you think it was bad? The 2020 injury? What would it take to change your mind? I'm in the group that thinks paying for a top receiver in FA is dumb for the cap usage. For me there were a few issues giving him big money so I'll wait and see if I'm wrong so please call me out if he ever becomes a 10+ TD player with 1400+ yards.. Toney in a small sample looks much better than some player who racked up stats on a shitty team.. I was a big Beckham fan and didn't like the 2nd contract just to show I'm consistent.. I feel the same way with RBs but Henry sure is an outlier on that one.. A 1400 yard 10 TD player!?...like consistently? Terrell Owens had 2 1400 yard seasons and he's one of the greatest receivers ever. Absolutely ridiculous expectation. Now there is one more game in a season...but still. He's also already been a 10+ TD player once, so there is also that. How do you rack up stats on a shitty team? Wouldn't that be harder? His best season he didn't even have Stafford for most of the year. You're talking in circles too. Toney and Kenny Golladay could not be more different. Whether you think it's an apples to apples comparison is irrelevant, it objectively isn't. It's like comparing Tyreek Hill to Mike Evans in the way they look on the field. Completely different skillsets, both necessary to run an explosive offense.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 8:49:38 GMT -5
Ross ahead of Golladay?....Can I have what you're smoking? He can take the top off of the defense. Golladay can't. In limited time, Ross has been more explosive and has the only TD between the 2 of them. I know what we all wanted Golladay to be to this team (Plax), but he hasn't shown it even when he was healthy. Maybe things will change if he comes back this season, but I doubt it. The Giants havent even come close to showing what Golladay is yet. Hes actually the closest thing weve had in a while to that tall, rangy sorta receiver we've historically done so well with, the guy that might not be the fastest, but if you just put the ball in his direction, hes gonna go up for it, fight for it, and come down with it. we havent seen golladay for what he is yet, not at all, and i just hope garrett and judge playcall to take advantage of exactly the kind of receiver he is. funny thing, DJ is a good fit of qb for golladay, if they just get the ball up in the air to him downfield.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 9:01:53 GMT -5
I'm in the group that thinks paying for a top receiver in FA is dumb for the cap usage. For me there were a few issues giving him big money so I'll wait and see if I'm wrong so please call me out if he ever becomes a 10+ TD player with 1400+ yards.. Toney in a small sample looks much better than some player who racked up stats on a shitty team.. I was a big Beckham fan and didn't like the 2nd contract just to show I'm consistent.. I feel the same way with RBs but Henry sure is an outlier on that one.. A 1400 yard 10 TD player!?...like consistently? Terrell Owens had 2 1400 yard seasons and he's one of the greatest receivers ever. Absolutely ridiculous expectation. Now there is one more game in a season...but still. He's also already been a 10+ TD player once, so there is also that. How do you rack up stats on a shitty team? Wouldn't that be harder? His best season he didn't even have Stafford for most of the year. You're talking in circles too. Toney and Kenny Golladay could not be more different. Whether you think it's an apples to apples comparison is irrelevant, it objectively isn't. It's like comparing Tyreek Hill to Mike Evans in the way they look on the field. Completely different skillsets, both necessary to run an explosive offense. I'm not going to explain to you about the prevent defense especially since we all witnessed how Eli could maximize it for his stats with McCadoodle.. Have a wonder rest of your day.. I'm too busy to continue this circle jerk with you.. BTW.. WHO GIVES A **** ABOUT TO besides you?? Crazy stuff to cherry pick him..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 9:06:00 GMT -5
He can take the top off of the defense. Golladay can't. In limited time, Ross has been more explosive and has the only TD between the 2 of them. I know what we all wanted Golladay to be to this team (Plax), but he hasn't shown it even when he was healthy. Maybe things will change if he comes back this season, but I doubt it. The Giants havent even come close to showing what Golladay is yet.Hes actually the closest thing weve had in a while to that tall, rangy sorta receiver we've historically done so well with, the guy that might not be the fastest, but if you just put the ball in his direction, hes gonna go up for it, fight for it, and come down with it. we havent seen golladay for what he is yet, not at all, and i just hope garrett and judge playcall to take advantage of exactly the kind of receiver he is. funny thing, DJ is a good fit of qb for golladay, if they just get the ball up in the air to him downfield. Are you claiming that Golladay is a down field receiver but sucks on the short patterns needed to move the chains?? Long rangy receiver the Giants have done so well with?? Come on who else besides Plax for a couple of years are you talking about? I'm actually surprised anyone knows what Golladay is besides injured.. Looking forward to see it some day!
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Post by jaymas on Oct 27, 2021 9:10:39 GMT -5
A 1400 yard 10 TD player!?...like consistently? Terrell Owens had 2 1400 yard seasons and he's one of the greatest receivers ever. Absolutely ridiculous expectation. Now there is one more game in a season...but still. He's also already been a 10+ TD player once, so there is also that. How do you rack up stats on a shitty team? Wouldn't that be harder? His best season he didn't even have Stafford for most of the year. You're talking in circles too. Toney and Kenny Golladay could not be more different. Whether you think it's an apples to apples comparison is irrelevant, it objectively isn't. It's like comparing Tyreek Hill to Mike Evans in the way they look on the field. Completely different skillsets, both necessary to run an explosive offense. I'm not going to explain to you about the prevent defense especially since we all witnessed how Eli could maximize it for his stats with McCadoodle.. Have a wonder rest of your day.. I'm too busy to continue this circle jerk with you.. BTW.. WHO GIVES A **** ABOUT TO besides you?? Crazy stuff to cherry pick him.. Cherry pick TO? He's one of the greatest receivers in NFL history haha. It's a perfect demonstration of how ridiculous your expectation is for a receiver to have consistent 1400 yard 10 TD seasons, when literally no receiver has ever done that. Jerry rice had 6...in 21 years of football. Randy Moss had 4, Marvin Harrison 4, Fitzgerald 4, Andre Johnson 4 Calvin Johnson 3, Chad Johnson 2, Torry Holt 2, Issac Bruce 2...the list goes on. For that to be your threshold to judge whether or not Golladay would be worth his contract is simply ridiculous. Oh, now the theory is Golladay got all his yards against prevent defenses, got it. You're right though, your argument here seems much more sound than mine, or the countless other people in this thread that have said similar things. I'd call this the most unsatisfying circle jerk I've ever been a part of.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 9:26:24 GMT -5
I'm not going to explain to you about the prevent defense especially since we all witnessed how Eli could maximize it for his stats with McCadoodle.. Have a wonder rest of your day.. I'm too busy to continue this circle jerk with you.. BTW.. WHO GIVES A **** ABOUT TO besides you?? Crazy stuff to cherry pick him.. Cherry pick TO? He's one of the greatest receivers in NFL history haha. It's a perfect demonstration of how ridiculous your expectation is for a receiver to have consistent 1400 yard 10 TD seasons, when literally no receiver has ever done that. Jerry rice had 6...in 21 years of football. Randy Moss had 4, Marvin Harrison 4, Fitzgerald 4, Andre Johnson 4 Calvin Johnson 3, Chad Johnson 2, Torry Holt 2, Issac Bruce 2...the list goes on. For that to be your threshold to judge whether or not Golladay would be worth his contract is simply ridiculous. Oh, now the theory is Golladay got all his yards against prevent defenses, got it. You're right though, your argument here seems much more sound than mine, or the countless other people in this thread that have said similar things. I'd call this the most unsatisfying circle jerk I've ever been a part of.Me too especially when you changed the goal posts and added the term consistent but hey you got to say some BS things about me with that made up shit so good for you!! Enjoy the day and season I'm sure Golladay will play at some point to prove me correct..
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